Should Rocket Charge (hammer 3) be a full evade? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Should Rocket Charge (hammer 3) be a full evade?

rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭

It is interruptable by entering then stowing a kit, but isn't it weird to give a defensive skill windows for the enemy to interrupt you?

Should Rocket Charge (hammer 3) be a full evade? 41 votes

Yes, that would be nice
31%
Lightsbane.9012Ghostt.1293Blood Red Arachnid.2493BrokenGlass.9356ParadoX.3124Iozeph.5617Makuragee.3058Dediggefedde.4961Klark.6239Suraci.1642HyTek.4258Naxos.2503Greyjoy.5167 13 votes
No, would be op
39%
Ivantreil.3092Lighter.5631DonArkanio.6419Elmo Benchwarmer.3025Oshi.9324Sobx.1758Virtuality.8351coro.3176warherox.7943Joneleth Irenicus.3195DarkHamster.7908Ruufio.1496Yasai.3549Matoro.9708Antycypator.9874Engal.6359 16 votes
No, do something else (comment on it)
29%
Stand The Wall.6987Samug.6512Chaith.8256Lahmia.2193Vagrant.7206Kaizoku.1298ArthurDent.9538InsaneQR.7412redwing.9580Curennos.9307rdigeri.7935Ralimisu.2946 12 votes

Comments

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    Not that weird. It would be a SUPER long evade if that was the case.

    I'd just rather it had 3 leap finishers again.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Lahmia.2193Lahmia.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @rdigeri.7935 said:
    An ammunition system with lower cooldown and single leaps might be nice, to have more control over the finishers and evade frames.

    Agreed. I've always hated the locking on this skill, similar to how Ranger sword auto use to be.

    "Surrender and serve me in life, or die and slave for me in death."

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, that would be nice

    Yes, but with some changes. Make it qualify as a gadget and benefit from from the Gadgeteer trait in Tools. Remove the three leaps and make it a straight line, heavy hitting gap closer that deals the damage from the old three hits in one blow(and add evade to rocket boots as well). Give it the strange functionality that rocket boots seemed to have for a while where you lay down your field first then trigger Rocket Charge and have the combination blast delivered when you land on your target.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    Rocket boots being ground targeted would it be for me.
    And it would give all engis a nice mobility tool and not just scrappers

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Rocket boots being ground targeted would it be for me.
    And it would give all engis a nice mobility tool and not just scrappers

    I mean it'd be nice but how is that related to this topic?

  • Yes, that would be nice

    I hate that, for PVE, there's no clear indication of where the evade frames are. So, I can't use Rocket Charge as an active evasion skill. This really limits its use.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @rdigeri.7935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Rocket boots being ground targeted would it be for me.
    And it would give all engis a nice mobility tool and not just scrappers

    I mean it'd be nice but how is that related to this topic?

    Its a mobility skill that is on engineer and one option is " Do something else" any specifics weren't given. So I chose something else I would rather want.

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Its a mobility skill that is on engineer and one option is " Do something else" any specifics weren't given. So I chose something else I would rather want.

    Well xD hard to argue with that
    I meant "something else for rocket charge"

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Yes, but with some changes. Make it qualify as a gadget and benefit from from the Gadgeteer trait in Tools. Remove the three leaps and make it a straight line, heavy hitting gap closer that deals the damage from the old three hits in one blow(and add evade to rocket boots as well). Give it the strange functionality that rocket boots seemed to have for a while where you lay down your field first then trigger Rocket Charge and have the combination blast delivered when you land on your target.

    I wouldn't make it one attack, otherwise 1 Aegis nullifies all that damage. Just ask Hammer Revs how often that turns into a problem. Right now comboing it with the Stun and lighting field on Thunderclap, thats 3 hard CCs that are well spaced out.

    If we're getting creative, I'd make it 2 leaps and a blast on 3rd, to help play its with its combo field from Gyros better.

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, would be op

    There needs to be a window for the opponent to react and counter the skill. Whether that is at the start like Unrelenting Assault, or at the point of damage like Vault or Rocket Charge's current behavior.

    If it evaded the entire time, I'd envision making a sort of unkillable evade/block tank scrapper:

    On a 20s interval, you'd get:

    • 4s of barrier from Bulwark Gyro
    • ~3s of block from traited Gear Shield
    • ~ 3.75s from 5 dodges (traited endurance regen + vigor + sigil of energy)
    • ~3.5s full evade from Rocket Charge

    And in the remaining 5.75s you could use your heal, block projectiles with Defense Field and Electro Whirl, and use mobility + combo skills like Acid Bomb.

    I'm not sure how strong that would be, but I imagine it'd be really frustrating to kill on a point.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @rdigeri.7935 said:
    An ammunition system with lower cooldown and single leaps might be nice, to have more control over the finishers and evade frames.

    Honestly, I think this is the best solution. Often I don't need it to go as far as it does, or I need a leap finisher. The evade is a nice bonus. A lot of the jankiness of the skill could be resolved by making it single leaps with an ammo charge.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    Now i wish i'd made it a separate vote, heh

  • Ruufio.1496Ruufio.1496 Member ✭✭✭
    No, would be op

    It's fine as it is, don't make ridiculous suggestions.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @coro.3176 said:
    There needs to be a window for the opponent to react and counter the skill. Whether that is at the start like Unrelenting Assault, or at the point of damage like Vault or Rocket Charge's current behavior.

    If it evaded the entire time, I'd envision making a sort of unkillable evade/block tank scrapper:

    On a 20s interval, you'd get:

    • 4s of barrier from Bulwark Gyro
    • ~3s of block from traited Gear Shield
    • ~ 3.75s from 5 dodges (traited endurance regen + vigor + sigil of energy)
    • ~3.5s full evade from Rocket Charge

    And in the remaining 5.75s you could use your heal, block projectiles with Defense Field and Electro Whirl, and use mobility + combo skills like Acid Bomb.

    I'm not sure how strong that would be, but I imagine it'd be really frustrating to kill on a point.

    Scrapper no longer has the beefy health regen ability it used to have that would make this OP. It'd just be buffing a skill on a spec that's since been nerfed some ways away from the meta.

    Back to Rocket Charge - +1 to making it an ammo skill. Heck, wish more of the skills were ammo-based. It'd be a nice scrapper-only to have a bunch of ammo skills on hammer, and might help make it easier to balance it out with other things.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You should rename your Poll to "Would you like more power creep as much as me?"

  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019
    Yes, that would be nice

    Well, the alternative is taking away everybody's evade frames and/or possibly removing in-combat stealth. I'd be happy with that.

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @mindcircus.1506 said:
    You should rename your Poll to "Would you like more power creep as much as me?"

    Dunno what you're talking about since scrapper was gutted.
    Besides, it's just as much a problem in pve where champions and such can hit very hard, all it takes is getting unlucky while using this skill to get rekt without much you can do about it. For a skill that's supposed to be evasive, that's pretty unideal.

    The full evade might not be the best answer but nevertheless it is a valid question.

    @Ruufio.1496 said:
    It's fine as it is, don't make ridiculous suggestions.

    Would it be ridiculous if it was designed that way to begin with? Or is it only ridiculous because you are not willing to consider alternative solutions?

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @starlinvf.1358 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Yes, but with some changes. Make it qualify as a gadget and benefit from from the Gadgeteer trait in Tools. Remove the three leaps and make it a straight line, heavy hitting gap closer that deals the damage from the old three hits in one blow(and add evade to rocket boots as well). Give it the strange functionality that rocket boots seemed to have for a while where you lay down your field first then trigger Rocket Charge and have the combination blast delivered when you land on your target.

    I wouldn't make it one attack, otherwise 1 Aegis nullifies all that damage. Just ask Hammer Revs how often that turns into a problem. Right now comboing it with the Stun and lighting field on Thunderclap, thats 3 hard CCs that are well spaced out.

    If we're getting creative, I'd make it 2 leaps and a blast on 3rd, to help play its with its combo field from Gyros better.

    This.....is a fantastic idea

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  • Iozeph.5617Iozeph.5617 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, that would be nice

    @starlinvf.1358 said:

    @Iozeph.5617 said:
    Yes, but with some changes. Make it qualify as a gadget and benefit from from the Gadgeteer trait in Tools. Remove the three leaps and make it a straight line, heavy hitting gap closer that deals the damage from the old three hits in one blow(and add evade to rocket boots as well). Give it the strange functionality that rocket boots seemed to have for a while where you lay down your field first then trigger Rocket Charge and have the combination blast delivered when you land on your target.

    I wouldn't make it one attack, otherwise 1 Aegis nullifies all that damage. Just ask Hammer Revs how often that turns into a problem. Right now comboing it with the Stun and lighting field on Thunderclap, thats 3 hard CCs that are well spaced out.

    If we're getting creative, I'd make it 2 leaps and a blast on 3rd, to help play its with its combo field from Gyros better.

    Here's my problem with the multiple leaps. It's the cludginess. Currently Rocket Charge locks you into a comparatively slow, halting, and somewhat random feeling advance on your opponent. Meanwhile anyone who sees this coming doesn't have to stagger, juke, and flop as though they suffer St. Vitus dance to kite and avoid you. It's as though whomever designed this profession wanted it to be as ungainly and ugly as possible with little payoff for all the contortions it puts you through. Holo, on the other hand, doesn't mess about. It leaps in, then yanks players down and pours the hurt on whether they want it or not. Do I want a carbon copy of holo? No.

    For me, the damage on the ability is secondary- if someone has a barrier, or if they have aegis them's the breaks. I don't care. The important part of what I wrote was the gap closer. Because in the end if they're continuing to kite they'll still have aegis if you actually manage to catch them. At least this way if they DID have aegis it's now gone and you're still toe to toe, but hopefully with time enough to follow that up with a hit from the hammer that actually connects, rather than continuing to run after them, flailing madly, and getting nothing for it. With the current implementation of Impact Savant if you aren't connecting you aren't doing anything to feed/create the barrier. That's bad.

    Having to swap out, breaking whatever scant momentum you might have gained while on the move, to Tool Kit in the hopes that magnet won't bug out or be dodged isn't any better and it only gets worse when its a plus one fight, but these are just my impressions/opinions.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @rdigeri.7935 said:

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Its a mobility skill that is on engineer and one option is " Do something else" any specifics weren't given. So I chose something else I would rather want.

    Well xD hard to argue with that
    I meant "something else for rocket charge"

    The full evade, single leap, charge idea is nice though^^
    It gives synergy to the traits and a bit of survivability. Although I would tune it down to 2 charges.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @rdigeri.7935 said:
    An ammunition system with lower cooldown and single leaps might be nice, to have more control over the finishers and evade frames.

    yes.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 19, 2019
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    The idea of reducing this skill to a single leap, and adding ammunition to it is very clever. I would clarifiy what those changes would look like:

    • Max Ammunition: 3. Ammunition recharge time: 10s, with no cooldown between charges, so you are able to evade continuously as long as charges are spent. This means you can bring 3 charges into a fight and in the first minute of combat, produce 9 leap finishers, then 6 finishers per minute for sustained combat. Currently you can perform 10 leap finishers per minute with less control.
    • Evade uptime per leap would be 1/2s, presumably that would be slightly up from a 1/3s evade per leap.

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  • Yes, that would be nice

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    The idea of reducing this skill to a single leap, and adding ammunition to it is very clever. I would clarifiy what those changes would look like:

    • Max Ammunition: 3. Ammunition recharge time: 10s, with no cooldown between charges, so you are able to evade continuously as long as charges are spent. This means you can bring 3 charges into a fight and in the first minute of combat, produce 9 leap finishers, then 6 finishers per minute for sustained combat. Currently you can perform 10 leap finishers per minute with less control.
    • Evade uptime per leap would be 1/2s, presumably that would be slightly up from a 1/3s evade per leap.

    Umm, wasn't it nerfed so overall it is only one Finisher now?

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    No, do something else (comment on it)

    @Greyjoy.5167 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    The idea of reducing this skill to a single leap, and adding ammunition to it is very clever. I would clarifiy what those changes would look like:

    • Max Ammunition: 3. Ammunition recharge time: 10s, with no cooldown between charges, so you are able to evade continuously as long as charges are spent. This means you can bring 3 charges into a fight and in the first minute of combat, produce 9 leap finishers, then 6 finishers per minute for sustained combat. Currently you can perform 10 leap finishers per minute with less control.
    • Evade uptime per leap would be 1/2s, presumably that would be slightly up from a 1/3s evade per leap.

    Umm, wasn't it nerfed so overall it is only one Finisher now?

    Two. Originally it was three finishers, but they reduced it to two.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Yes, that would be nice

    @Vagrant.7206 said:

    @Greyjoy.5167 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:
    The idea of reducing this skill to a single leap, and adding ammunition to it is very clever. I would clarifiy what those changes would look like:

    • Max Ammunition: 3. Ammunition recharge time: 10s, with no cooldown between charges, so you are able to evade continuously as long as charges are spent. This means you can bring 3 charges into a fight and in the first minute of combat, produce 9 leap finishers, then 6 finishers per minute for sustained combat. Currently you can perform 10 leap finishers per minute with less control.
    • Evade uptime per leap would be 1/2s, presumably that would be slightly up from a 1/3s evade per leap.

    Umm, wasn't it nerfed so overall it is only one Finisher now?

    Two. Originally it was three finishers, but they reduced it to two.

    Oh, thanks for clarification!

  • Yes, that would be nice

    @rdigeri.7935 said:
    An ammunition system with lower cooldown and single leaps might be nice, to have more control over the finishers and evade frames.

    That would be awesome. I don't remember how often I fell down some cliff in WvW back then when we were using hammers...

  • No, do something else (comment on it)

    just like the others have said, have it be a smaller leap with a ammo system so that we stop having them change direction mid leap

  • Ghostt.1293Ghostt.1293 Member ✭✭✭
    Yes, that would be nice

    i would love to see this even tho i never play as an engi

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