in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2? - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2?

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  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    You have to really keep in mind that there are a multitude of streamers whose fanbase watch them and play at the same time. Doing one or the other aren't mutually exclusive activities. In fact if you watch those streams you can see said people show up in the stream as they likely use it to find out where they are in a city or zone or whatever and then go and see them. Or they participate in a dungeon, or raid, or whatever else kind of group content in whatever game.

    It's really hard to understand for those unintiated in the first place the way PvP works in this game. I don't watch Guild Wars 2 streams, and never have. I have occasionally watched other streams. I love playing Guild Wars 2, but I don't necessarily love watching it.

  • some games are good for watching

    some games are good for playing

    I prefer playing over watching

  • imo the streamer plays more of a role than the game,, i currently watch streamers play games i dont play

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    Why do people even stream? It's such a peculiar mentality to me.
    Someone used the word narcissistic earlier. That's quite pejorative, but it does seem to describe streaming behaviour pretty well.

    If you can do something you enjoy for a living then why not?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @knomslayer.9457 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Because gw2 is more entertain to play than to watch.
    I doubt even know why game channels are popular in the first. You're waching someone else having fun.
    (Strictly talking about lets play streams. There are people who can amusing videos ABOUT games)

    So world of warcraft is more entertaining to watch than play?

    Apparently. The people must not like the game very much to rather watch other people play

    Apparently people that watch sports must not like the sport very much if they’d rather watch than play.

    Apparently people that watch music performances must not like the music very much if they’d rather watch than play it themselves.

    Apparently people that watch TV/movies must not like the their lives very much if they’d rather watch events through imaginary characters than experience them firsthand.

    The difference there being that those levels of activities require years of dedicated training.
    I get you'd watch a championship of a game because that's not a playing field the average Joe can access.
    What i don't get is why you'd watch another average Joe play

    No they don’t. Anyone can learn to play an instrument. Anyone can learn to play a sport. Six years olds do it all the time.

    Let's see them score against Messi, then.
    But in all seriousness. 'Most people' only watch junior or public competitions of a friend, family, or child participates. Or if they're in the sport themselves with the purpose of learning a thing or two.

    You’re making the assumption that someone must be an expert or skilled in order to do something. You’re holding gaming to a different standard than everything else.

  • CrimsonNeonite.1048CrimsonNeonite.1048 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    PvP and WvW lacks content, has balance issues or lacks any proper esports scene, the pvp may not be easy on the eyes for new players and there is only new PVE content every couple of months.

    Besides, most people Stream or make YouTube content as a Hobby, or to make a living, because there are millions of people who enjoy watching people play games, who do enjoy streaming to an audience or making content on YouTube after all these years.

    Of course there are some, who just do it to be 'popular' or to feel like it anyway.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    Why should I watch when I can play. (No clue why wow people like watching instead of playing, maybe wow-playing isn’t fun?)

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    I don't see why it's so important. When I played Aion( 3 odd years ago) hardly anyone streamed and it (for a while) was successful and dare I say it a more exciting game to watch. Same with the first game. The closest I got was watching the re-runs of our Guild's GVG and discussing them on TS.
    I watch a couple of streams here and there. But considering the content of some I can read how people think about this game every day on these forums. I shall leave this post there.

  • SLOTH.5231SLOTH.5231 Member ✭✭✭

    GW1 was a complete power house during its time and had twitch been around then I believe it would have been in the top played games pvp wise. Now battle royals are all the swag spray and pray.

    I mean how could they leave Hall of Heroes out of GW2 it was so fun competing at that level in GW1.

    I want to see a Re-Mastered GW1 with only the PVP aspect HOH. It was so fun, competitive and rewarding when you won. Competing thru several maps just to get to HOH and my GOD there were some good euro players I loved monking for those guys but if you missed a heal on a spike they let you have it haha.

  • This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

  • SLOTH.5231SLOTH.5231 Member ✭✭✭

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

  • Litterally laughing out loud at the thought of taking time to watch someone else play a video game. I'll figuratively laugh to myself once the folks in the office stop asking me whats so funny.

  • sigur.9453sigur.9453 Member ✭✭✭

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    Litterally laughing out loud at the thought of taking time to watch someone else play a video game. I'll figuratively laugh to myself once the folks in the office stop asking me whats so funny.

    Never been at a friend's house and playing a single player game on console alternately? It's like that, with a much larger sofa though.

  • Elspereth.1280Elspereth.1280 Member ✭✭✭

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The blinding lightshow that is combat in gw2 makes it difficult to follow or enjoy as a spectator in my opinion.

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Watching better players play for entertainment and learning is a big draw. Unfortunately GW2 made a big deal about not wanting any challenged or competition in their game so people don't really tune in. I mean, what are they gonna watch? People soloing peronal story or being random guy #87 in an open world zerg?

    Raid releases get relatively big numbers with streamers getting between 1-3k viewers, but then it gets cleared in 2 hours and most of them leave.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    You have to really keep in mind that there are a multitude of streamers whose fanbase watch them and play at the same time. Doing one or the other aren't mutually exclusive activities. In fact if you watch those streams you can see said people show up in the stream as they likely use it to find out where they are in a city or zone or whatever and then go and see them. Or they participate in a dungeon, or raid, or whatever else kind of group content in whatever game.

    It's really hard to understand for those unintiated in the first place the way PvP works in this game. I don't watch Guild Wars 2 streams, and never have. I have occasionally watched other streams. I love playing Guild Wars 2, but I don't necessarily love watching it.

    Hmm well thats because there isn't much worth watching, which is something that has been repeated a few times here. More people watch BDO than GW2 and I'd argue that BDO has the same, if not more, visual noise during combat and a more complex combat system. However it has arguably more worthwhile to watch content than GW2. Daily node wars (large scale PvP battles in the open world) and weekly territory wars (even larger scale PvP battles to claim castles in the open world). BDO streamers also know a great deal about the game and share information and advice on a large variety of things.

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I don't see why it's so important. When I played Aion( 3 odd years ago) hardly anyone streamed and it (for a while) was successful and dare I say it a more exciting game to watch. Same with the first game. The closest I got was watching the re-runs of our Guild's GVG and discussing them on TS.
    I watch a couple of streams here and there. But considering the content of some I can read how people think about this game every day on these forums. I shall leave this post there.

    You might have played Aion "3 odd years ago" but thats a game that was released in 2008 and it had long since lost much of its following and playerbase years prior to "3 odd years ago". Similar to GW1, released in 2005. Twitch really only started getting traction in the latter parts of 2013, and growing further in 2014. Before that Twitch was essentially Justin.tv which was a bit of an obscure early streaming platform back in 2007 when it released.

    I think some people forget how recent Twitch as a thing really is. Its been there for a bit, but the way it grew beginning in 2013 and further wasn't that long ago.

  • Diak Atoli.2085Diak Atoli.2085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

  • Elspereth.1280Elspereth.1280 Member ✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

    42 is young compared to me.... I must have forgotten the things I was supposed to learn.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

    30-year old people are Millenials. No one knows what to call people younger than 25, yet, so they get to be called Post-millenials.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 12, 2019

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

    30-year old people are Millenials. No one knows what to call people younger than 25, yet, so they get to be called Post-millenials.

    Generation Z / Gen Z / Zoomers (Don't think this one is official/Used in a mockingly manner)

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

    30-year old people are Millenials. No one knows what to call people younger than 25, yet, so they get to be called Post-millenials.

    Generation Z / Gen Z / Zoomers (Don't think this one is official/Used in a mockingly manner)

    Kids, for short.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Anchoku.8142 said:

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Elspereth.1280 said:

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    42 to be exact!

    How do you know there are exactly 42 30 yr old boomers on this thread? ;)

    When you get to our well-weathered age you learn things. That's how. ;)

    30-year old people are Millenials. No one knows what to call people younger than 25, yet, so they get to be called Post-millenials.

    Generation Z / Gen Z / Zoomers (Don't think this one is official/Used in a mockingly manner)

    Kids, for short.

    Except they can already be adults, as there isn't an official "generation start". Most define it to be between the late 1990s and the early 2000s. I was also just stating that there are already names besides "Post-millenials" ;)

    You have a heart of gold. Don't let them take it from you. Umbasa.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    You have to really keep in mind that there are a multitude of streamers whose fanbase watch them and play at the same time. Doing one or the other aren't mutually exclusive activities. In fact if you watch those streams you can see said people show up in the stream as they likely use it to find out where they are in a city or zone or whatever and then go and see them. Or they participate in a dungeon, or raid, or whatever else kind of group content in whatever game.

    It's really hard to understand for those unintiated in the first place the way PvP works in this game. I don't watch Guild Wars 2 streams, and never have. I have occasionally watched other streams. I love playing Guild Wars 2, but I don't necessarily love watching it.

    Hmm well thats because there isn't much worth watching, which is something that has been repeated a few times here. More people watch BDO than GW2 and I'd argue that BDO has the same, if not more, visual noise during combat and a more complex combat system. However it has arguably more worthwhile to watch content than GW2. Daily node wars (large scale PvP battles in the open world) and weekly territory wars (even larger scale PvP battles to claim castles in the open world). BDO streamers also know a great deal about the game and share information and advice on a large variety of things.

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I don't see why it's so important. When I played Aion( 3 odd years ago) hardly anyone streamed and it (for a while) was successful and dare I say it a more exciting game to watch. Same with the first game. The closest I got was watching the re-runs of our Guild's GVG and discussing them on TS.
    I watch a couple of streams here and there. But considering the content of some I can read how people think about this game every day on these forums. I shall leave this post there.

    You might have played Aion "3 odd years ago" but thats a game that was released in 2008 and it had long since lost much of its following and playerbase years prior to "3 odd years ago". Similar to GW1, released in 2005. Twitch really only started getting traction in the latter parts of 2013, and growing further in 2014. Before that Twitch was essentially Justin.tv which was a bit of an obscure early streaming platform back in 2007 when it released.

    I think some people forget how recent Twitch as a thing really is. Its been there for a bit, but the way it grew beginning in 2013 and further wasn't that long ago.

    Feels a bit disingenuous. That is you say in one part of your post to someone else that older games are going to get less hits than current games, and then ignore the fact that the US release of BDO is five years later than Anets. You want to compare them you really have to either go back in time and see what Anet's numbers were in 2015 or so to really compare the two games.

    To my recollection I don't think there's that much of a difference in the numbers between then and now. I don't know when Black Desert Online approaches it's 7th birthday if it will have quite as many streamers.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @huluobo.7036 said:
    Why are there many people watching Wow?

    Cuz Gw2 taste like a cardboard dinner. Tasteless!
    As soon there's any kind of flavor to it, it's removed.
    God forbid you have fun playing Gw2.
    Stale tasting is what you get when playing Gw2.
    Stop enjoying it & buy more gems.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    yawn... it's just a boring game.. Just admit it to yourself & you'l feel much better after.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    You have to really keep in mind that there are a multitude of streamers whose fanbase watch them and play at the same time. Doing one or the other aren't mutually exclusive activities. In fact if you watch those streams you can see said people show up in the stream as they likely use it to find out where they are in a city or zone or whatever and then go and see them. Or they participate in a dungeon, or raid, or whatever else kind of group content in whatever game.

    It's really hard to understand for those unintiated in the first place the way PvP works in this game. I don't watch Guild Wars 2 streams, and never have. I have occasionally watched other streams. I love playing Guild Wars 2, but I don't necessarily love watching it.

    Hmm well thats because there isn't much worth watching, which is something that has been repeated a few times here. More people watch BDO than GW2 and I'd argue that BDO has the same, if not more, visual noise during combat and a more complex combat system. However it has arguably more worthwhile to watch content than GW2. Daily node wars (large scale PvP battles in the open world) and weekly territory wars (even larger scale PvP battles to claim castles in the open world). BDO streamers also know a great deal about the game and share information and advice on a large variety of things.

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I don't see why it's so important. When I played Aion( 3 odd years ago) hardly anyone streamed and it (for a while) was successful and dare I say it a more exciting game to watch. Same with the first game. The closest I got was watching the re-runs of our Guild's GVG and discussing them on TS.
    I watch a couple of streams here and there. But considering the content of some I can read how people think about this game every day on these forums. I shall leave this post there.

    You might have played Aion "3 odd years ago" but thats a game that was released in 2008 and it had long since lost much of its following and playerbase years prior to "3 odd years ago". Similar to GW1, released in 2005. Twitch really only started getting traction in the latter parts of 2013, and growing further in 2014. Before that Twitch was essentially Justin.tv which was a bit of an obscure early streaming platform back in 2007 when it released.

    I think some people forget how recent Twitch as a thing really is. Its been there for a bit, but the way it grew beginning in 2013 and further wasn't that long ago.

    Feels a bit disingenuous. That is you say in one part of your post to someone else that older games are going to get less hits than current games, and then ignore the fact that the US release of BDO is five years later than Anets. You want to compare them you really have to either go back in time and see what Anet's numbers were in 2015 or so to really compare the two games.

    To my recollection I don't think there's that much of a difference in the numbers between then and now. I don't know when Black Desert Online approaches it's 7th birthday if it will have quite as many streamers.

    Fair point, age could be a factor. However I was responding in regards to the specific point of "visual noise" that was being made. There are for sure a number of factors, but when you are attempting to pinpoint one as a cause then of course there will be a response in regards to that.

    As for actually looking back on the numbers in say...2015 for GW2, on average numbers have been somewhat similar, but GW2 peaks far less than BDO does, and BDO has had a relatively steady upwards incline whereas GW2 has stagnated, or more accurately just remained mostly level. Basically BDO was able to, more early on, take advantage of Twitch than GW2 was able to initially. Considering Justin.tv transitioned into Twitch in 2011 or so and, as was outlined, gained more traction in 2013 into 2014. Which lines up with when ANet introduced the Partner Program in 2015.

    I won't deny age can be a factor, but I don't think that "visually cluttered and noisy" (paraphrasing) is an adequate evaluation of the why.

    Also to clarify, my point was not that "older games get less hits" than current games, it is more of the timing in which all of these factors were occurring and that their perspective example of Aion doesn't really hold up terribly well considering the timing. Especially if one wants to make the argument of "GW2 isn't dead" which it isn't but its definitely not a game that, currently, has much in the way of content "worth" watching, or rather to retain watchers. Aion,at the time of the growth Twitch saw, was definitely in a relative "non-existent" state and seeing as GW2 was released at these times then GW1 was "less relevant" in that sphere.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    Often times people will watch a streamer play a game to decide if it looks interesting to them, then go and buy it then play it. Also to play it with said streamer for either community driven events or otherwise. Also there is the added element of people watching for the streamer's personality. Do you think WoW, LoL, Apex, Fortnite, Minecraft, Teamfight Tactics, GTAV, or really any of the top viewed games on Twitch are any less fun to actually play than they are to watch a streamer play? Of course they have an interest in the game, or a growing interest, which is why they even watch at all. Of course the streamer personality plays a role there, but I highly doubt the vast majority of their viewers don't also play the game and enjoy it quite a lot.

    Maybe you, or many here, don't find WoW fun, or they don't find LoL fun...but that is all entirely subjective and you don't have to agree with it (I don't, I hate LoL and all MOBAs) but that doesn't mean everyone shares your sentiments or your perspective. It feels rather flimsy to equate watching a game "over playing it" to simply imply that the game has something "wrong" with it.

    Keep in mind, the same goes for GW2 and I do not dispute that but whether age is a factor, or timing, or popularity is subjective and perspective and context is important to consider. You can't just write it off as "GW2 is just more fun to play" or "Clearly these other games have something wrong with them", that is horribly unrealistic thinking.

    You like the game, thats fine, I like the game, but I'm not going to delude myself because I don't agree with the fact that other people like other games.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    Often times people will watch a streamer play a game to decide if it looks interesting to them, then go and buy it then play it. Also to play it with said streamer for either community driven events or otherwise. Also there is the added element of people watching for the streamer's personality. Do you think WoW, LoL, Apex, Fortnite, Minecraft, Teamfight Tactics, GTAV, or really any of the top viewed games on Twitch are any less fun to actually play than they are to watch a streamer play? Of course they have an interest in the game, or a growing interest, which is why they even watch at all. Of course the streamer personality plays a role there, but I highly doubt the vast majority of their viewers don't also play the game and enjoy it quite a lot.

    Maybe you, or many here, don't find WoW fun, or they don't find LoL fun...but that is all entirely subjective and you don't have to agree with it (I don't, I hate LoL and all MOBAs) but that doesn't mean everyone shares your sentiments or your perspective. It feels rather flimsy to equate watching a game "over playing it" to simply imply that the game has something "wrong" with it.

    Keep in mind, the same goes for GW2 and I do not dispute that but whether age is a factor, or timing, or popularity is subjective and perspective and context is important to consider. You can't just write it off as "GW2 is just more fun to play" or "Clearly these other games have something wrong with them", that is horribly unrealistic thinking.

    You like the game, thats fine, I like the game, but I'm not going to delude myself because I don't agree with the fact that other people like other games.

    Pretty much this. To be frank, all of this "It's more fun to play the game" stuff is a transparent way to blow off a legitimate concern without having to tackle it logically. The facts are pretty simple:

    People watch others play games.
    Very few people watch others play GW2.
    Therefore, there must be a reason why this is so.

    To say that one doesn't understand the premise doesn't make it go away. There's countless reasons why somebody would watch a game instead of playing it. That, however, isn't the important part. The important question is why they don't watch GW2. There's a lot of free advertising to be earned in user-generated content, so it should be a very real concern for Anet that GW2 doesn't get any.

    I'm not much of a twitch guy myself, but I watch plenty of players on Youtube. I made a post detailing some of the reasons earlier in the thread, but that isn't some grand revelation. It is just the stuff that other games have that I watch, that GW2 doesn't have:

    Clarity
    Interactive Environments
    Rich Environments
    Good Loot
    Status
    Goals
    Clear Demonstrations of Skill
    Lore
    Time investment

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    You have to really keep in mind that there are a multitude of streamers whose fanbase watch them and play at the same time. Doing one or the other aren't mutually exclusive activities. In fact if you watch those streams you can see said people show up in the stream as they likely use it to find out where they are in a city or zone or whatever and then go and see them. Or they participate in a dungeon, or raid, or whatever else kind of group content in whatever game.

    It's really hard to understand for those unintiated in the first place the way PvP works in this game. I don't watch Guild Wars 2 streams, and never have. I have occasionally watched other streams. I love playing Guild Wars 2, but I don't necessarily love watching it.

    Hmm well thats because there isn't much worth watching, which is something that has been repeated a few times here. More people watch BDO than GW2 and I'd argue that BDO has the same, if not more, visual noise during combat and a more complex combat system. However it has arguably more worthwhile to watch content than GW2. Daily node wars (large scale PvP battles in the open world) and weekly territory wars (even larger scale PvP battles to claim castles in the open world). BDO streamers also know a great deal about the game and share information and advice on a large variety of things.

    @Dami.5046 said:
    I don't see why it's so important. When I played Aion( 3 odd years ago) hardly anyone streamed and it (for a while) was successful and dare I say it a more exciting game to watch. Same with the first game. The closest I got was watching the re-runs of our Guild's GVG and discussing them on TS.
    I watch a couple of streams here and there. But considering the content of some I can read how people think about this game every day on these forums. I shall leave this post there.

    You might have played Aion "3 odd years ago" but thats a game that was released in 2008 and it had long since lost much of its following and playerbase years prior to "3 odd years ago". Similar to GW1, released in 2005. Twitch really only started getting traction in the latter parts of 2013, and growing further in 2014. Before that Twitch was essentially Justin.tv which was a bit of an obscure early streaming platform back in 2007 when it released.

    I think some people forget how recent Twitch as a thing really is. Its been there for a bit, but the way it grew beginning in 2013 and further wasn't that long ago.

    Feels a bit disingenuous. That is you say in one part of your post to someone else that older games are going to get less hits than current games, and then ignore the fact that the US release of BDO is five years later than Anets. You want to compare them you really have to either go back in time and see what Anet's numbers were in 2015 or so to really compare the two games.

    To my recollection I don't think there's that much of a difference in the numbers between then and now. I don't know when Black Desert Online approaches it's 7th birthday if it will have quite as many streamers.

    Fair point, age could be a factor. However I was responding in regards to the specific point of "visual noise" that was being made. There are for sure a number of factors, but when you are attempting to pinpoint one as a cause then of course there will be a response in regards to that.

    As for actually looking back on the numbers in say...2015 for GW2, on average numbers have been somewhat similar, but GW2 peaks far less than BDO does, and BDO has had a relatively steady upwards incline whereas GW2 has stagnated, or more accurately just remained mostly level. Basically BDO was able to, more early on, take advantage of Twitch than GW2 was able to initially. Considering Justin.tv transitioned into Twitch in 2011 or so and, as was outlined, gained more traction in 2013 into 2014. Which lines up with when ANet introduced the Partner Program in 2015.

    I won't deny age can be a factor, but I don't think that "visually cluttered and noisy" (paraphrasing) is an adequate evaluation of the why.

    Also to clarify, my point was not that "older games get less hits" than current games, it is more of the timing in which all of these factors were occurring and that their perspective example of Aion doesn't really hold up terribly well considering the timing. Especially if one wants to make the argument of "GW2 isn't dead" which it isn't but its definitely not a game that, currently, has much in the way of content "worth" watching, or rather to retain watchers. Aion,at the time of the growth Twitch saw, was definitely in a relative "non-existent" state and seeing as GW2 was released at these times then GW1 was "less relevant" in that sphere.

    There are always multiple factors of why anything happens, but I've heard time and again that Guild Wars 2 PvP is hard to follow and part of that reason, though not all of it, is particle effects.

    One of the devs said at one point that dedicated PvPers only make up 10% of the game's population so probably most players couldn't follow a PvP tournament anyway, and people who don't play couldn't at all.

  • knomslayer.9457knomslayer.9457 Member ✭✭✭

    @hunkamania.7561 said:
    No1 watches the game because it lacks content and most the good streamers left for better games.

    Sad but true.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    don't see any point see twitch. I like play.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    My point stands. You don't need streamers to make a game successful, otherwise your precious WoW would of died a death years ago.
    This game isn't interesting to watch, full stop.

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The two people I follow on GW2, I listen to their gameplay if I’m playing. And any downtime I’ll watch. They only pvp so I couldn’t care less to watch pve or wvw in this game.

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    Often times people will watch a streamer play a game to decide if it looks interesting to them, then go and buy it then play it. Also to play it with said streamer for either community driven events or otherwise. Also there is the added element of people watching for the streamer's personality. Do you think WoW, LoL, Apex, Fortnite, Minecraft, Teamfight Tactics, GTAV, or really any of the top viewed games on Twitch are any less fun to actually play than they are to watch a streamer play? Of course they have an interest in the game, or a growing interest, which is why they even watch at all. Of course the streamer personality plays a role there, but I highly doubt the vast majority of their viewers don't also play the game and enjoy it quite a lot.

    Maybe you, or many here, don't find WoW fun, or they don't find LoL fun...but that is all entirely subjective and you don't have to agree with it (I don't, I hate LoL and all MOBAs) but that doesn't mean everyone shares your sentiments or your perspective. It feels rather flimsy to equate watching a game "over playing it" to simply imply that the game has something "wrong" with it.

    Keep in mind, the same goes for GW2 and I do not dispute that but whether age is a factor, or timing, or popularity is subjective and perspective and context is important to consider. You can't just write it off as "GW2 is just more fun to play" or "Clearly these other games have something wrong with them", that is horribly unrealistic thinking.

    You like the game, thats fine, I like the game, but I'm not going to delude myself because I don't agree with the fact that other people like other games.

    I can tell you that you're gonna be wasting your time here, these guys don't "get" it and don't want to "get". I suspect the main reason is that it's a situation where their chosen product is "losing out" to another in some area and that's impossible for some people to accept so they'll sneer at it and deride those who enjoy it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A large percentage of the streamers stream raids and/or PvP which the casual non-gamer community of GW2 tend to keep a distance from. Maybe that’s why?

  • there are three games I watch (on youtube):

    World of Tanks (to remind me why I don't play it anymore)
    World of Warships (to remind me why I don't touch it. So so tempting, but basically it suffers from the same bullkitten as WoT)
    Warthunder (because I am pretty new to that game and don't know the maps by heart).

    I don't watch apex, forthnight and all the others, because it bores me. I tried, I really do. I had a friend who was a World of Warcraft fanatic. Watched him several times playing it, was all that was needed to keep me away from it. Same for Diablo 2 and everything afterwards.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

  • Conncept.7638Conncept.7638 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    Because the devs chose to compromise their original design goals and copy how raids work from other games, making them compete with said games, which cannot be competed with, simultaenously failing to make any impact on existing players/viewers or carve out it's own niche of new players/viewers.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    The obvious difference between traditional sports and games is that the barrier to entry in traditional sports is very high. You literally cannot play football any time you want to. You have to get equipment, find other people, and schedule a field. And even then you'd be doing it at such an amateur level that what you are doing can't really even be called "football" anyway.

    With games, the barrier to entry is practically non-existent. There are many factors stopping the vast majority of people from being able to play a RL sport, but there are virtually no factors inhibiting anyone's ability to play a game.

    That's why you cannot compare the two in an apples to apples fashion for your point.

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @huluobo.7036 said:
    Why are there many people watching Wow?

    I got some bad news for ya. GW2 streamers are also going wow classic. Going to be interesting to see those streams once the gw2 fans start commenting.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • witcher.3197witcher.3197 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @mtpelion.4562 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    The obvious difference between traditional sports and games is that the barrier to entry in traditional sports is very high.

    lmao, no it's not. There's plenty of publicly open spaces -if not straight up playing fields- where amateurs can do what they want for fun. You don't need to be a pro, you don't NEED any professional equipment like you try to claim. That's just straight up false. Literally any kid can go out and play with random kids in his old shoes. The same goes for when you're older, claiming that there's a "barrier to entry" because you need expensive gear is just laughable. Also if you can affort a decent pc, you can also affort gear. You don't need to, you don't have to like it (but that wasn't the point in that responce), but if you WANT to play something, there's no high barrier holding you back.

    And even then you'd be doing it at such an amateur level that what you are doing can't really even be called "football" anyway.

    Holy kitten, hold me... If you're not a professional, you're not playing the game! :lol:
    Wrong on so many levels and ACTUALLY literally applies to the streamers/proplayers/amateur gamers. Apparently if you're not a contracted e-sports player, you're not supposed to play anything on your pc, because there are people better than you. Get out.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense. It isn't that I "didn't understand" it is that what you said doesn't...make sense.

    You're trying to connect this idea that a game that is popular to watch being played has "something wrong with it" because people watch it being played and that is an unrealistic train of thought. I'm pretty sure its already well established that the people who watch these games also play them. Which there is visible and tangible proof of when you just tune into streams. People watch those games because they play them, or have an interest in playing them, or they like the streamer. Or all of the above.

    We're not talking about people who "watch instead of play" because that kind of severe disconnect isn't there. Again...look to streamers that play with their viewers, streamers that run events in the games they play that get participation from their viewers. With that readily available and established information the point attempting to be made of "they watch instead of play" makes no sense. Twitch even has a tag that is literally "Playing with Viewers".

    https://www.twitch.tv/directory/all/tags/ac763b17-7bea-4632-9eb4-d106689ff409

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

    Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.