in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2? - Page 4 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2?

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  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

    Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • jbrother.1340jbrother.1340 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    Why do people even stream? It's such a peculiar mentality to me.
    Someone used the word narcissistic earlier. That's quite pejorative, but it does seem to describe streaming behaviour pretty well.

    i don´t know, is a

    • book author
    • radio host
    • professor
    • musician
    • forum poster
    • .....................
      also automaticly a narcisist for sharing his work/mind/activities/...?

    This makes me feel that mmo players are going the way of the dinosaurs. I notice mmo players are usually the first to call out mobile games as not being real games either so, it's not surprising that streaming isnt in their repitore as well.

    You know what would be really healthy for probably most people...

    Stop needing to call others out for your opinions. Stop calling them out as though somehow "you" possess some hidden knowledge that is subtle and quaint. Who cares if something that is clearly creative and imaginary (yes it exists in the sense that it is physically able to be interacted with but spawned from imagination) doesn't do it for you? I hate the taste of liver. I have cooked liver and onions thousands of times in my life and eaten it many as well. I still hate the taste but have been complimented on my preparation of it by others who love it often. My personal taste is not relevant in any way.

    With a game or twitch or anything that you or another might consider creative or entertaining who are we to argue with that taste. I never understood twitch and for quite some time wondered why people did that and why anyone would even want to broadcast themselves in that way. It is pretty raw entertainment. No filter really no time delay and things can go badly wrong and if the camera is still rolling you are going to get super exposed to the world real fast considering it is being recorded or clipped by someone. Then I went to twitch one day and saw for myself.

    It is madness. It isn't just games. I watched a person build a bird feeder the other day. there were only about 100 people watching but we chatted and he did as well with us and questioned certain things he was doing with tools and technique in his wood shop. He answered and gave information and joked around. It was a nice little bird feeder. It isn't just a bunch of twelve year old squeakers. I watch games and chat and watch cooking shows and other stuff live. For me that is the reason I actually really like it now that I just went and saw for myself. I love live entertainment. I have far less chance to see live performance for me actually in the flesh than I would like so it fits a role for me. I go to concerts, plays, opera, ballet and all kinds of other stuff whenever I can but I am not rich and that stuff can cost. Twitch and other platforms like it serve a very desired purpose and now I have digressed.

    The reason more people will watch wow is several factors. One being that things change fast at the top on twitch. New and shiny often rockets to the top for a bit and then drops into a place below that and hovers around or crashes and disappears so far down you forget about it. WOW as classic launches is going to have a huge presence for a short time. It will not last long and will drop in place in the first three rows on the twitch browser after a month or so, maybe less. GW2 has never had much presence and in the end that is a viscous circle that causes a game to flounder. You need something that draws at least a couple mid-size or large streamers to a degree to survive. That causes ads to get played people get paid and then the circle is broken. It isn't easy in the sea of online games to achieve this and most games simply cannot for long. There is a reason the top games are always on top. Small streams and streamers are often more fun than large ones.

    GW2 is never really going to have a place on twitch based on the current existence and culture of twitch.

    Sort of digressed hard from the person I quoted not sure what happened. What can you do???

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

    Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    Right, you are describing what your thoughts and opinions are on the subject...and I'm contributing a contrary, or opposing, thought/opinion that is actually supported by available information that essentially refutes that opinion.

    Its okay if your opinion is opposed, its okay if an opinion is wrong, that is the entire basis of an opinion; it is a view or judgment of something that is not necessarily supported by fact or knowledge. Which means that its okay that it can be wrong, and its also okay if your opinion changes based on new information or perspective.

  • jbrother.1340jbrother.1340 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:

    @knomslayer.9457 said:

    @Ayakaru.6583 said:
    Because gw2 is more entertain to play than to watch.
    I doubt even know why game channels are popular in the first. You're waching someone else having fun.
    (Strictly talking about lets play streams. There are people who can amusing videos ABOUT games)

    So world of warcraft is more entertaining to watch than play?

    Apparently. The people must not like the game very much to rather watch other people play

    Apparently people that watch sports must not like the sport very much if they’d rather watch than play.

    Apparently people that watch music performances must not like the music very much if they’d rather watch than play it themselves.

    Apparently people that watch TV/movies must not like the their lives very much if they’d rather watch events through imaginary characters than experience them firsthand.

    The difference there being that those levels of activities require years of dedicated training.
    I get you'd watch a championship of a game because that's not a playing field the average Joe can access.
    What i don't get is why you'd watch another average Joe play

    The top streamers might seem like normal average joes to you but most of them have made a stupidly large pile of money competing in some cases at the international level in gaming. They got rich some of them playing games at a level that would simply make you or me quit if we had to play them everyday at "that" game. It is like anything else people do professionally for money. Many might do it but few master and claim it as their own.

    It might be unpopular here to mention this stuff and you might not find the games some of them play regularly amusing but there are a couple streamers that often are playing PUBG and other FPS games that crush people like they never even existed and do it calmly no matter what happens. I love seeing that. I love seeing in their eyes the pain of losing to an amateur and the process going on back there or learning and then being a performer and keeping it all down while they genuinely say GG when the other play got the drop and won in a fair fight. I love watching people perform. The average joes are there as well they are just the ones with fewer viewers often or in some cases are diamonds in the rough that have not figured out their brand yet. I find the come up and the fight to survive in that world and on twitch highly amusing. the same as singers, actors, and other artists that I enjoy.

    In the words of the great philosopher Rodney Danderfield from Back to School (1986):
    I have only one thing

    to say to you today,

    it's a jungle out there
    You gotta look out
    for number one
    But don't step in number two.
    And so,
    to all you graduates...
    as you go out into the world
    my advice to you is...

    don't go!

    It's rough out there.
    Move back with your parents
    Let them worry about it.

  • googel.3278googel.3278 Member ✭✭✭

    why watch a player that dresses with pixels to look important? that isnt fun, that is just show and tell. These poor people stay in Lions arch looking for attention, im sure anet is happy with the results! Give em more skins!

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

    Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

    Hey, it's your choice if you want to look at that statement and take it out of context. We are, after all, in a forum talking about video games ... but if you want to have an academic argument if what I said applies outside of the scope of the discussion I'm taking part in, you will have to do it without me. Have fun.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭

    @rabenpriester.7129 said:
    This thread is full of 30 year old boomers lmao

    Umm that would be a millennial.

    @SLOTH.5231 said:

    42 to be exact!

    That would be a GEN X'ER

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Yes this is exactly why watching sport events is so popular -because there's something FUNDAMENTALLY WRONG WITH SPORT!!!11 :lol:
    If anything's "fundamentally wrong" here, it's clearly your biased statement.

    GW2 isn't a sport ... that's a question of access. Anyone who watches GW2 on twitch CAN play GW2. Not everyone that watches a sport has access to play it as they want.

    Never said it is and it's irrelevant to what you or I have said. There are people that can play [pick a sport], but at the given time choose to watch it instead, which doesn't magically make them abandon active participation in the near future OR make [said sport] FUNDAMENTALLY wrong/bad/whatever you want to call it. Your statement is just false no matter how you choose to paint it.

    Hey, it's your choice if you want to look at that statement and take it out of context.

    Nothing I commented on here was out of context. You just have nothing to say, so it's time for your regular disappearance act, gj :)

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 13, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Thelgar.7214Thelgar.7214 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't have enough time to play, let alone watch someone else play, even if I had any interest in watching someone else play, which I don't.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    It is what you said in the first place.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

    I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Watching games and twitch is popular.

    The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

    You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

    Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

    There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

    Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

    If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

    There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

    Unless you are Amish...maybe.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • knomslayer.9457knomslayer.9457 Member ✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Watching games and twitch is popular.

    The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

    You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

    Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

    There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

    Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

    If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

    There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

    Unless you are Amish...maybe.

    i agree

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    lmao, it's like you don't even understand what you keep writing :lol:

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    It is what you said in the first place.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

    I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

    There isn't a zig zag ... I was clear. I'm not getting into some convoluted argument about a simple point that I have made more than once that other players have affirmed as well. You can keep asking me what I mean in all the different ways you can think of ... but at this point, I don't think I can explain it in a way you will understand it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Zuldari.3940 said:

    @huluobo.7036 said:
    Why are there many people watching Wow?

    I got some bad news for ya. GW2 streamers are also going wow classic. Going to be interesting to see those streams once the gw2 fans start commenting.

    and in a couple of weeks they will realize how much WoW sucked back then and look elsewhere.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Watching games and twitch is popular.

    The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

    You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

    Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

    There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

    Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

    If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

    There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

    Unless you are Amish...maybe.

    I dunno ... old folks got lots of money ... IF Anet makes any revenue at all from twitch, it's certainly not close to what they get from people playing and buying gems.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    It is what you said in the first place.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

    I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

    There isn't a zig zag ... I was clear. I'm not getting into some convoluted argument about a simple point that I have made (that other players have affirmed as well). You can keep asking me what I mean in all the different ways you can think of ... it's not changing my assertion about why GW2 players are more keen to play the game than watch it being played.

    If that is your point then okay, that is fine I can accept that. That is what I was looking for, an assertion of your actual point and not this convoluted defense of something you said, that was maybe unintentionally worded incorrectly, that there is apparently something "wrong" with other games because people like to watch them as well as play them.

    You made some strange, sweeping statement implying that you see games that are being watched on Twitch, or whatever streaming service, have something wrong with them that makes people only want to watch them, not play them.

    Again this is what you initially said...now if you maybe worded it poorly then thats fine, but you didn't walk back that statement it just looked like you were defending it as well as thinking you made your perspective clear from the get go, which you didn't (at least not in this post).

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    Thats why your subsequent posts just looked strange and like you were just all over the place. First saying what is above, and then saying something else contrary to that and not even acknowledging, maybe "Oops, I worded that wrong".

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    Yeah, i don't know how you don't understand that ... Poor wording? OK ... check any of the three or four other ways I have presented the same idea to you ... I lost count. I think that 'strange, sweeping' statement is actually not all that strange and relevant to almost any video game I've ever played. I mean, other than that one time they put animated cinematic scenes in that knight arcade game 30 years ago or tried to make movies with interactive arcade-like cutscenes with glove controllers ... playing > watching.

    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Watching games and twitch is popular.

    The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

    You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

    Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

    There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

    Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

    If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

    There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

    Unless you are Amish...maybe.

    I dunno ... old folks got lots of money ... IF Anet makes any revenue at all from twitch, it's certainly not close to what they get from people playing and buying gems.

    in fact, while old folks got lots of money, young folks are utterly broke.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    That doesn't even sound accurate much less look it.

    That's because you didn't understand. What I find fun or not is irrelevant to my statement. My statement had NOTHING to do with why people stream games or why people watch them. We aren't talking about the scenario where someone watches to get a sense for what the game is like before buying it. We are talking about people who watch instead of play ... and it's reasonable to think that's NOT likely to be the kind of players this game attracts. This is a reason GW2 doesn't have high twitch activity.

    None of that makes any sense.

    Well, it does so ... /shrug. I'm not making an point about how useful twitch is or isn't. I'm describing why I would think a casual GW2 doesn't watch it.

    Declaring that something makes sense doesn't just suddenly make it so.

    You are correct ... I can't speak for you're ability to understand something. I still don't think it's huge jump in logic to see that I'm not talking about the benefits of twitch. I'm talking about why people aren't watching it, given the option to play the game.

    And I wasn't talking about the benefits of Twitch either...I'm talking about your correlation, in this case I guess, to if people are "given the option" to play the game "instead" of watching as being incorrect especially when I've already fully laid out that their viewers both play and watch along with said streamers and provided information to support it. That they wath because they play and because they are interested, as well as liking the streamer.

    I'm not talking about the benefits of Twitch, I'm simply talking about how your perception as to why GW2 isn't being watched does not make sense and is incorrect, and I even provided information to support that position. It just seems like that is getting ignored, which is utterly unhelpful in a discussion.

    I'm putting forward the idea that if a game is more interesting to watch than to play given the option, it's a problem with the game, ESPECIALLY in the context of GW2. It's not unreasonable you are being ignored because that assertion isn't nonsense. You might not agree ... that's OK. But it's not nonsensical to think this.

    You stated from the onset "there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves" where it was put forth that such an idea was incorrect and is a flimsy defense to use in the context of GW2. "Its just more fun to play than watch" probably correct, which is a problem with GW2 in some respects, as it doesn't really have content worth watching. Am I to understand that is the standpoint you are taking now?

    What do you mean taking 'now'? ... I haven't contradicted anything I've said. I'm not sure what isn't clear to you here. It's not a far fetched idea to assume games are meant by their creators to be played, so when presented the option to play or watch someone play, if they opt to watch, there is something about the game that makes that player not want to play it. Feels like I'm explaining the obvious at this point. If you don't get it, we will have to leave it at that.

    So let me get this straight...are you still saying that the games being watched the most on Twitch have something "fundamentally" wrong with them if they are being watched and not played?

    What do mean 'still' saying? I NEVER said games being watched 'the most' ... If this is some attempt to draw me out ... you need to get me up earlier in the morning.

    It is what you said in the first place.

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    And relevant to the OP ... it's likely related to the kind of person that GW2 appeals to in the first place. Without a better description, 'casual' players don't tend to have hours to sit around and watch videos about games they want to play, EVEN if they liked watching them.

    How does this not imply you are saying "games that are watched and not played have something wrong with them" because that is exactly what you said, meant and implied with this post.

    I'm not trying to draw you out, I'm trying to understand the zig-zagging logic and perspective that keeps happening with you.

    There isn't a zig zag ... I was clear. I'm not getting into some convoluted argument about a simple point that I have made more than once that other players have affirmed as well. You can keep asking me what I mean in all the different ways you can think of ... but at this point, I don't think I can explain it in a way you will understand it.

    This is exactly the point you understood you're wrong, but as usually you don't want to admit it, so you'll stick to the "I didn't literally and directly write that!" line of defense. :+1:

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    You did not clarify this at all. As in it was not clear that this was what you meant, in none of your posts was this idea phrased in such a way that it was coherent.

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    I've streamed GW2 in the past, I may go back to it (not right now though) and even though I didn't garner a terribly large following, those that did watch did also play the game, they also ran into me ingame, they also interacted with me in the game and talked with me about the game. I even fought against a few of them ingame in WvW.

    So I think the misundersanding, or not understanding, why people would "watch over playing" seems to come from it being just a black and white comparison. They watch or they play the game when that just isn't the case. Many watch and play the game. There is just this added element of the streamer personality that likely coaxes people to watch the game, and watch the streamer. Streams aren't just purely informational, they can be engaging and create a sense of community. There is also the content of the game that can drive some to watch rather than play or watch and play. Either to see the streamer react, or how well they do, or play through some new update alongside them. Also some people watch from their work (likely desk jobs or on their phones during their break).

    GW2 just doesn't really have that, hence the comments consisting of "nothing worth watching" as Raids are...not as great as other games, Open World isn't much better, Fractals...meh, WvW is honestly getting less and less viewers, sPvP isn't much different. People really only watched streamers like Teapot for him not the game content. He does his job pretty well, and he even runs community events like his upcoming Raid one. A great many GW2 streamers have essentially moved on at this point because of these factors.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:
    Watching games and twitch is popular.

    The top youtube stars are gamers, and twitch is a billion dollar business.

    You don't have to understand it, but those are the facts.

    Don't be old and scoff at the younger generations hobbies.

    There was a time when someone said what you do is dumb.

    Right now you can tell about how popular a game is based on yt views and twitch streams.

    If GW2 has only old folks, perhaps the doom and gloom posts are not to far off.

    There is no way you are under 25 and don't know how popular these media forms are.

    Unless you are Amish...maybe.

    I dunno ... old folks got lots of money ... IF Anet makes any revenue at all from twitch, it's certainly not close to what they get from people playing and buying gems.

    in fact, while old folks got lots of money, young folks are utterly broke.

    Old folks spend much money on video games for themselves?

    Figured they would be spending it on kids, and grandkids.

    I wonder how many of those are interested in or know about GW2?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Hashberry.4510Hashberry.4510 Member ✭✭✭

    Heck why not ask why everyone does not play video games. Is there something wrong with them? Is there something wrong with video games? Smh. Maybe we just like to judge others choices.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    GW2 is the same way, you have to go elsewhere to learn skill rotations for raids, you have to go elsewhere to learn about META builds or just a good build, you can ask other players for advice on how to play sPvP more effectively and what you should be doing, you can ask other players for advice or tips and tricks on how to fight another class, you can ask another player where good areas are to go for "grinding" money. Again, tons of information that offers depth to the game and deeper delving that the game itself does not provide on its own.

    Again I am not saying that you are saying people don't have a reason to go to Twitch, I'm saying that your interpretation of the why is incorrect. Either you belief this because you don't understand or because you don't want to understand, I don't know. I don't think you're attacking Twitch or streamers, I think you just have a fundamentally wrong idea about some things. People watching a game, on Twitch, "rather" than playing it either because they have questions or whatever doesn't secretly imply this "hidden" problem fundamentally with any particular video game. It just implies maybe they want to watch it...for any of the reasons I have stated before beyond just information or asking questions, and I really hope I don't have to repeat those again.

    No. I don't have some agenda. Stop. sigh

    "In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around"
    Again, just because you say something doesn't just suddenly make it so, or factual, it just means you said it and I've already repeatedly voiced my disagreement with your viewpoint and provided examples as to why its incorrect. Specifically I am talking about your repeated insistence that a game has "something wrong with it" if people watch it rather than play it.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @jbrother.1340 said:

    @Jumpin Lumpix.6108 said:

    @sigur.9453 said:

    @TwoGhosts.6790 said:
    Why do people even stream? It's such a peculiar mentality to me.
    Someone used the word narcissistic earlier. That's quite pejorative, but it does seem to describe streaming behaviour pretty well.

    i don´t know, is a

    • book author
    • radio host
    • professor
    • musician
    • forum poster
    • .....................
      also automaticly a narcisist for sharing his work/mind/activities/...?

    This makes me feel that mmo players are going the way of the dinosaurs. I notice mmo players are usually the first to call out mobile games as not being real games either so, it's not surprising that streaming isnt in their repitore as well.

    You know what would be really healthy for probably most people...

    Stop needing to call others out for your opinions. Stop calling them out as though somehow "you" possess some hidden knowledge that is subtle and quaint. Who cares if something that is clearly creative and imaginary (yes it exists in the sense that it is physically able to be interacted with but spawned from imagination) doesn't do it for you? I hate the taste of liver. I have cooked liver and onions thousands of times in my life and eaten it many as well. I still hate the taste but have been complimented on my preparation of it by others who love it often. My personal taste is not relevant in any way.

    With a game or twitch or anything that you or another might consider creative or entertaining who are we to argue with that taste. I never understood twitch and for quite some time wondered why people did that and why anyone would even want to broadcast themselves in that way. It is pretty raw entertainment. No filter really no time delay and things can go badly wrong and if the camera is still rolling you are going to get super exposed to the world real fast considering it is being recorded or clipped by someone. Then I went to twitch one day and saw for myself.

    It is madness. It isn't just games. I watched a person build a bird feeder the other day. there were only about 100 people watching but we chatted and he did as well with us and questioned certain things he was doing with tools and technique in his wood shop. He answered and gave information and joked around. It was a nice little bird feeder. It isn't just a bunch of twelve year old squeakers. I watch games and chat and watch cooking shows and other stuff live. For me that is the reason I actually really like it now that I just went and saw for myself. I love live entertainment. I have far less chance to see live performance for me actually in the flesh than I would like so it fits a role for me. I go to concerts, plays, opera, ballet and all kinds of other stuff whenever I can but I am not rich and that stuff can cost. Twitch and other platforms like it serve a very desired purpose and now I have digressed.

    The reason more people will watch wow is several factors. One being that things change fast at the top on twitch. New and shiny often rockets to the top for a bit and then drops into a place below that and hovers around or crashes and disappears so far down you forget about it. WOW as classic launches is going to have a huge presence for a short time. It will not last long and will drop in place in the first three rows on the twitch browser after a month or so, maybe less. GW2 has never had much presence and in the end that is a viscous circle that causes a game to flounder. You need something that draws at least a couple mid-size or large streamers to a degree to survive. That causes ads to get played people get paid and then the circle is broken. It isn't easy in the sea of online games to achieve this and most games simply cannot for long. There is a reason the top games are always on top. Small streams and streamers are often more fun than large ones.

    GW2 is never really going to have a place on twitch based on the current existence and culture of twitch.

    Sort of digressed hard from the person I quoted not sure what happened. What can you do???

    The playerbase is clearly stuck in 2012 and as someone who has played games on a very high level for 30 years and usually always plays the most recent trends, including cell phone games, mmos since 2001, including ultima online and ff11 when it was really hard. Was also in the 7th top guild in wow during burning crusade, even play simple games like terraria, stardew valley, hard games like all dark souls titles, hollow knight and has 100% all of the above mentioned games at well as probably 1000 others, back when all there was, was consoles. I also streamed on twitch and have been watching livestreams since 2011.

    So Yes, I do feel as though I posses hidden knowledge in seeing the psychology of the people who play this specific game compared to most people.

    Oh and I also played the guild wars franchise Since gw1 launch and have gwamm, and also played gw2 since launch
    Also have multiple pvp legend titles so I'd say I have a pretty good handle on this game as well as the demeanor of those who play it...

  • Jumpin Lumpix.6108Jumpin Lumpix.6108 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    Double post

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    I'm somewhat worried about the whole twitch youtube, twitch presence of the game, it kinda feels almost non existent. This might not seem like a problem for many people, but if the game does not get online presence it is considered dead for new or old players that could have tried the game in current day. We know that the retention rate decreases over time and if something is not done properly(the marketing for GW2 is archaic) the game population will dwindle.
    With less content creators it is hard to promote the game by word of mouth so Anet should probably try to invest in that part of the community, an ingame promotion in the pvp tab or the gem store tab would help a little. I really find hard to believe they don't want to compete on the market. Their main competitor ESO( yes ESO not WoW, FF or what ever shiny mmo comes out), which has similar world design and monetization has better online presence even though the gameplay of GW2 is miles ahead. They just market their game better.
    If you scroll on twitch you will notice ESO sitting on the first page with 4 to 5 k views, while GW2 is down at the bottom.
    If you are searching for a new game which one would you pick?

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    Right that one example based around that one reason to watch a stream. Information is not the only reason someone watches a stream, you can't ignore those others just in favor of the one. When you ignore the other reasons, as per your example, yes...your point of view makes sense. However that is not the case. People don't watch MightyTeapot to learn about the game, some might pop in and ask a question from time to time and he will answer, but otherwise they are watching for him more than likely, and for the content of his stream and him playing through Raids or other content. What keeps them around, though, is likely him as a twitch personality.

    Going to back track a few posts here.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    I don't disagree with this sentiment, I don't, however I'm saying that it simply isn't the case. Say someone comes into a GW2 stream and asks the streamer "Hey, whats a good [insert class] build to use in PvP?" the streamer might load up onto an alt or already be on the right character and they can briefly show them which traits to use and briefly discuss what stats to pick for a specific build, then they might link them to Metabattle to give them a way to possibly find more options if the build they were shown isn't to their liking. Or maybe someone comes into their chat and asks "Where is a good spot to get money?" the streamer might indicate that they should try rotating meta events on several maps or suggest going to Istan.

    All of that information is not something really any game informs their players on, its community established "meta" or otherwise and that happens with practically every game I can even think of at this point. GW2, WoW, BDO, FFXIV, ESO, Borderlands series, Monster Hunter World, Dark Souls, League of Legends, Planetside 2, Battlefield, Warframe, XCOM, The Witcher series, and the list goes on...

    You said in a previous post;
    "I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, ...the more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game."

    And I at least tried to elaborate on the why, but I don't know if it wasn't sufficient enough for you or you just wanted to ignore it. Either way I don't know how else to convey much more about this topic to you that hasn't already been said, or what wouldn't comprise of me just quoting my own past posts in response to your new ones.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 14, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    Right that one example based around that one reason to watch a stream. Information is not the only reason someone watches a stream, you can't ignore those others just in favor of the one.

    To be fair, you haven't taken effort to look at what I said and see how it applies to ANY example; you just immediately dismissed it as nonsense because you didn't put any thinking into the idea. The fact I so easy addressed just one makes me think I didn't just 'get lucky' with that random choice either.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    Right that one example based around that one reason to watch a stream. Information is not the only reason someone watches a stream, you can't ignore those others just in favor of the one.

    To be fair, you haven't taken effort to look at what I said and see how it applies to ANY example; you just immediately dismissed it as nonsense because you didn't put any thinking into the idea. The fact I so easy addressed just one makes me think I didn't just 'get lucky' with that random choice either.

    How does what you said apply to any of the other examples?

    Watching for entertainment. (Streamer personality, content of the game, interaction, community)
    They enjoy the streamer and his content. The game is enjoyable to watch, similar to how someone might enjoy watching a sport being played. How does this apply as a fault in the game?

    Watching for information.
    They are looking to ask about more in depth details about a game, that which the game doesn't provide. Things like meta builds or tips and tricks or advice on something pertaining to the game. How does this apply as a fault in the game?

    If you would apply it differently to these then feel free to do so as a response, I'm curious as to what that will entail.

    You also didn't "easily" address anything, you just addressed one thing, and I didn't immediately dismiss it as nonsense I have repeatedly tried to elaborate on how it "doesn't make sense" in the context of everything else. You pinpointed one thing, watching a stream for information, and have run with that consistently as implying there is a fault in the game(s) themselves when it has been repeatedly established that it is not the only reason streams are viewed by hundreds, thousands, tens of thousands or hundreds of thousands of people. If that were the only reason, sure I would agree with you and your point of view...but that isn't the only reason.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    OP, I'll answer your question with a question: Who even gives a you-know-what about Twitch!

    Twitch is just inane nonsense and nothing but a distracting marketing hype machine for games. See, the last thing I want to hear when I watch a game stream is someone talking over it. It ruins immersion. I hate this entire Twitch culture that pretends it's more important for games than it actually is.

  • @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    Old folks spend much money on video games for themselves?

    Figured they would be spending it on kids, and grandkids.

    I wonder how many of those are interested in or know about GW2?

    Old folks spend a lot of money on stuff they enjoy. Not all of them are into model railroads, LEGO UCS or RC planes.

    I am 40+. Is that 'old folks' already? I spend A LOT of money on the games I enjoy.

    I know plenty of peopl who are a) older then me and b) spend a huge chunk of their income on hardware and games.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    Old folks spend much money on video games for themselves?

    Figured they would be spending it on kids, and grandkids.

    I wonder how many of those are interested in or know about GW2?

    Old folks spend a lot of money on stuff they enjoy. Not all of them are into model railroads, LEGO UCS or RC planes.

    I am 40+. Is that 'old folks' already? I spend A LOT of money on the games I enjoy.

    I know plenty of peopl who are a) older then me and b) spend a huge chunk of their income on hardware and games.

    That's ok. It's good to invest into your hobbies. But, your (age) group is not what keeps this game or any other going.

    We can push it to x up to 35 and about 65% of the income comes from there.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/

    It is statistics for 2019 despite the URL.

    Edit: That might be a lie if those age groups are being funded by yours....haha.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    Right that one example based around that one reason to watch a stream. Information is not the only reason someone watches a stream, you can't ignore those others just in favor of the one.

    To be fair, you haven't taken effort to look at what I said and see how it applies to ANY example; you just immediately dismissed it as nonsense because you didn't put any thinking into the idea. The fact I so easy addressed just one makes me think I didn't just 'get lucky' with that random choice either.

    How does what you said apply to any of the other examples?

    I guess you won't know unless you think about it. You didn't think it applied to someone watching to learn how to do something ingame either ... but it does.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    Old folks spend much money on video games for themselves?

    Figured they would be spending it on kids, and grandkids.

    I wonder how many of those are interested in or know about GW2?

    Old folks spend a lot of money on stuff they enjoy. Not all of them are into model railroads, LEGO UCS or RC planes.

    I am 40+. Is that 'old folks' already? I spend A LOT of money on the games I enjoy.

    I know plenty of peopl who are a) older then me and b) spend a huge chunk of their income on hardware and games.

    That's ok. It's good to invest into your hobbies. But, your (age) group is not what keeps this game or any other going.

    We can push it to x up to 35 and about 65% of the income comes from there.

    https://www.statista.com/statistics/189582/age-of-us-video-game-players-since-2010/

    It is statistics for 2019 despite the URL.

    Edit: That might be a lie if those age groups are being funded by yours....haha.

    Show us the same stats for GW2, then you might have something.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Tutorial videos of gw2 on youtube normally had 100k+ views. The verdant brink hero point guide had 400k+views.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    I don't think you have misunderstood me ... I don't 'get it' when people would rather watch than play games, especially if the kinds of people this game attracts have lifestyles that limit their game time (and I believe that is the majority of the people that play this game). The more people would rather watch a game than play it tells me the games are better movies than they are games. I'm not talking about watching to learn or see how to do something in-game either. I'm talking about legit watching someone play a game ... because that's fun to someone, MORE fun than playing the same game.

    There you go. That is what was asked for.

    No different than the other five times I said it ... that's OK, I don't have a problem when people need to catch up.

    slow sigh Anyway...

    So to now properly respond to your viewpoint, its understandable that some people don't understand the desire to watch another play a video game. However I don't think that ultimately turns into a fault of the game, or that there is something wrong with the game when people watch a streamer play it. There are a number of things that affect that, either be it they just like the streamer personality, they like to watch a game played by someone because they also play it, or they have questions about the game.

    Again, I'm not saying there aren't reasons for people to go watch GW2 on twitch because obviously there are if they do ... I just think that says there is some fundamental issue with the game if a person would prefer doing that over playing it. For instance, someone having questions about the game. That's watching for education purposes. If that person knew how to do something, they would probably rather be doing it than watching someone else do it on twitch. That could be an indication that the game doesn't sufficiently inform it's players.

    You seem to have this problem connecting my statement to the examples you provide, simply because you don't like the underlying tone or format it was given. I don't get why ... I'm not attacking twitch, the streamers on it or even the people that watch it. /shrug. In fact, my statement paints a pretty good picture of players, streamers and GW2 all around ... I guess you have an agenda or something.

    Information about a game can sometimes require deeper delving and asking questions beyond what the game provides, this isn't a fault in the game as there are tips and tricks that offer more depth to gameplay, and information that is not something a game's tutorial or otherwise offers. Things like META builds, skill rotations, advice on how to fight certain classes in PvP, advice on how to play a game mode more effectively, how to be a more effective teammate, where to get a certain item, good areas to grind for experience or money, etc. There is tons of information in nearly every game that is not something that the game handles providing for you. That isn't a fault in the game, that is just how things work.

    No debate there ... like I said ... that example is not about someone choosing to watch someone play twitch over playing it themselves ... it's for learning; they are watching because they HAVE to in order to do something in the game ... and IMO, that IS about something deficient about the game. That's not what I'm talking about here. If given the option, I'm pretty sure that people would rather play the game than learn about how to play it from twitch.

    Right that one example based around that one reason to watch a stream. Information is not the only reason someone watches a stream, you can't ignore those others just in favor of the one.

    To be fair, you haven't taken effort to look at what I said and see how it applies to ANY example; you just immediately dismissed it as nonsense because you didn't put any thinking into the idea. The fact I so easy addressed just one makes me think I didn't just 'get lucky' with that random choice either.

    How does what you said apply to any of the other examples?

    I guess you won't know unless you think about it. You didn't think it applied to someone watching to learn how to do something ingame either ... but it does.

    sigh So rather than give your own perspective on it, and actually elaborate further on your own point of view, you are just electing to avoid the whole thing entirely? That's great, that's a helpful discussion of opposing points of view. Just having the other person, who is asking for you to elaborate and who is wanting to see your side, to just "do it themselves" isn't really how this all works. Thats not how discussions of opposing opinions really work.

    Listen, I think something has really been misunderstood here.

    I have no personal problems with you, lets get that cleared up, yet apparently I have invoked in you the desire to condescend to me because I oppose your point of view and your opinion. I have no interest in insulting you, attacking you or whatever other negative intention is assumed through these posts. All I'm asking is that you support your point of view with something beyond "I think it therefore it is so and its your fault for not understanding" because that is all I'm seeing.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    You're the one that disagreed with me and provided a terse explanation of 'because it's nonsense' .... Now you want me to lead you through why I think you are wrong?

    Sorry, no. You tell ME why what I said doesn't apply, especially since in some random choice of example you've given, I show it does. I'm condescending to you? Fine ... don't talk to me. Problem SOLVED. I've supported ny point ... it's way back in one of those posts I made where I was trying to explain the same thing to you 3 different ways. It's a game, not a movie. It's intended to be played because it doesn't make the developer money if people don't play it ... if given the option, people treat it like a movie and not a game, that's a problem and assuming that that people who play games LIKE playing them (which isn't a stretch of the imagination) ... it's an issue with the game.

    The example of watching to learn doesn't disprove that, because it's an example where someone DOESN'T get to choose. They HAVE to learn from somewhere to play. They don't watch by choice, they watch by necessity. The fact this simple distinction eluded your analysis of my statement makes me think you aren't very serious about trying to understand what I'm saying.

    Don't get me wrong .. this isn't personal. I just think that people are pretty quick to dismiss without thought about what they are dismissing or even what they are reading because they want to play the foil. I'm not just saying things that I think will get people pissed off; my statement is actually complimentary to the game since it doesn't have a massive twitch presence or viewers. I'm not really sure what the problem is here, other than some offense that's being taken to the idea that games are intended to be played, not watched being played if possible.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

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