in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2? - Page 5 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

in twitch.Why are there few people watching Guild Wars 2?

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  • Hex.8714Hex.8714 Member ✭✭

    The answer is simple, its because of the zerg oriented content which is 90% of the gw2 content. Do you really think people are gonna watch you spam 1111111 on some boss / group event where your skill is totally irrelevant and you could be alt tabbed while auto attacking since the content is really easy and not engaging and mostly just zerging. MMOs not being as popular as FPS is another reason but theres a reason why WoW and other games have viewers and guild wars 2 dosent .

    Its not fun to watch, the only thing that could be fun to watch is PvP that is not zerg oriented or some super hardcore raid/dungeon which gw2 dosent have unless you low man it on purpose on CM mode. Any content thats not engaging and dosent require skill will never have any viewership on twitch, because people want to watch something that they arent able to do themselves. its why people watch pro streamers etc.

    Anybody can join a zerg and spam 1111, so why would they watch some1 else do it ? its like watching other people sitting on their sofa. If gw2 started to release hardcore content thats based around small scale instead of zerg fests there would be a way higher viewership and playerbase.

    For those saying twitch views dont matter its a blatant lie because it does matter alot, its how alot of players find the games they wanna play and its how people decide whether the game is worth investing into or not. If it dosent have any presence on platforms like twitch or youtube its a huge handicap for the game and its overall longevity and popularity.

    Theres a reason why the most played games in the world also have the highest twitch viewership its not a coincidence, so for those saying it dosent matter you are being extremely delusional.
    Anyways like i said, if this game wants to expand and attract more players it needs to focus on releasing challenging small scale content and less zerging content. It dosent mean zerg content has to be removed, but there needs to be a variety and there neeeds to be content available for all types of players. Currently gw2 only caters to casual players and its been like this since release, obviously it is a bit too late now to start but.. its better than never.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭

    And still it is more fun than games where the combat and evasion doesn't even involve jumping and dodging. Where hit rate is only calculated by some stats and the game is basically about only clicking buttons as well. (Not even movement important.)

    Personally I don't give a kitten about twitch. Never used it. Never will use it. I play games - instead of watching others (that probably have annoying voice and comment) playing games to just show off how good they are or to make money by getting viewers.

    As long as there is enough population in every map in GW2 (doesn't say anything about the total playerbase since the megaserver system) it is fine to play from a point of view of a player - and I'm not forced to play kitten like WoW (I'd stop playing MMORPGs then and play single player games and doing more of my other hobbies).

    And as long as ArenaNet still keeps doing new living story stuff ... it must sell enough to continue the game. (And don't worry ... just because YOU don't like it doesn't mean it isn't selling. Personally I hate most of the skins for gems as well. But there are a lot of people that care and these payment models are popular nowadays. Korean grind games even have gameplay relevant - pay to win - item shops. Also there are games like LoL that solely sell skins.) Worst case it will be put in maintenance mode and still be alive. Just no more updates but still playable. (Even GW1 that is barely played anymore ist still possible to play.)

    Don't see why everyone is panicking - and all those new thread every 1-2 days.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    I know only one rule: "if you not understand why it is - the answer is money".
    If you not donate charismatic streamers, not give gifts for something, don't pay for news - you not have focus. Ho payment focus - no big parts streams.
    Should we worry that anet not spend money for unknown useless streams ? I think NO.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:
    1000 broken 22 year olds or 200 well doing 45yr olds, which group is probably spending more?

    Probably the 1000 22 year old are spending way way more than the 200 45 year old. Why? Because usually those "broke" players use their parent's money, you know the well doing grown ups have children of their own. There are more than enough news about little children spending more on games than a reasonable adult would in their entire lifetime playing the same game. Second reason is because spending in mmorpgs is directly related to investment. The more invested a player is in a game, the more money they spend on a game. Now which age group is going to be more invested, a 22 year old or a 45 year old? I'd guess that a young player will play more, because they don't have as many life commitments, play more varied content, and in general be more active in a game. Someone that logs 5 hours in a month isn't spending much.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, actually I started to notice that the lack of roles in GW2 brings every class to doing literally the same thing.

    It's just (the non-existent lore and) our imagined feeling of our class that makes us think we play something different.

    GW2 is pretty, the lore is very interesting. But because GW2 wants to be do different from any MMO it is what it is.

  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    Yeah what knomslayer mentinoed might also be true. When I think of WoW my time from back then when I played it for 6 months after release comes to my mind. I had only a char that had about 2 third of the max levels. And was grinding money for mounts. I realize this got made much easier later (and people want to get back to the "classic WoW") but stuff like item/gear treadmill persists I guess. One thing that a lot of people like. But which also makes it not beginner friendly. Since it takes long to get to the latest (end game) content when you have to grind yourself through the treadmill.

    There might be players enjoying watching the latest content that are not ready to play it. Where for GW2 basically you can play most stuff with exotic gear even after years of break..

    Lack of roles actually is fun - since you can dediced what to do for yourself. I see this as a positive thing. Having no dedicated healer class is the best thing in this game. (Makes it possible to do lots of stuff without having to lf for a healer. No healers that get swarmed by private messages from people looking for healers - then blaming them if something fails.)

    For players: Just a different tast for each one. Some like it. Some don't like it. Might be harder to search for streams when you want to watch "healer gameplay" and there are no dedicated healers.

    I as player enjoy the jumping (puzzles) and scenery also a lot. People watching MMORPG maybe prefer to "watch" classic stuff like clicking skill buttons combat and no dodging, jumping, movement. (And looking at stats/dps.) I you don't enjoy jumping as well (and we got back then when moutns were not available a lot of players even here that playd the game - complaining even about vista ... not only the JPs when vistas are easy) you miss a lot of the game. But that is stuff people watching streams might not be looking fore. (Doing jumping ... really is a big difference in doing it yourself vs. watching it where watching for other parts might be possible to still be remotely fun.)

    Edit: And when OP mentions the lack of hardcore content (which not anyone can do): This could scare away players ... if the game focuses on stuff for elite/hardcore gamers. There is no need to attract such a toxic playerbase when the game always had been advertised for different types of player.s That way it would also try to compete with WoW: Meaning losing more players to WoW when it isn't better there. Players that like the hardcore content in WoW better will go there. Players that liked GW2 because it did not introduce such content will leave. The way we have it now ArenaNet can focus on the existing playerbase (which is different). The other way: It would be a constant battle in trying to be better than WoW at the hardcore stuff. (Possibly even requiring a item/gear treadmill being introduced which would kill the game for me.)

    Sometimes I think: These guys making these threads are WoW players that want to hurt GW2 and try to get the existing playerbase to leave. Or they are kitten cause the like the basic combat but want the "endgame" to be like WoW. (Instead of just playing WoW which they could if they liked the combat for WoW - with everything else already being to their taste.)

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @knomslayer.9457 said:
    Reason why its not popular on twitch is because Gw2 is fun to play but not fun to watch. SIMPLE. why would you watch someone play the game instead of playing it yourself lol.
    wow is popular on twitch because most of their players are kids who dont have a job so they watch people play the game on twitch. Thats why wow have so many viewers.

    Except even the GW2 streamers who play the game are quitting more and more recently. Pretty sure Teapot is quitting after his Raid tournament community event. They aren't enjoying the game, and its also impacting their ability to grow their channels.

    I've been noticing a lot of streamer hate in these forums recently. Ya'lls envy is showing.

  • SexyMofo.8923SexyMofo.8923 Member ✭✭✭

    It’s a boring game.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    I still don't get all the people saying it has low viewership because the game is "boring". Yes, gameplay might be a part of why some people watch a stream, but it is not the most important part.
    The most important part is the streamer him/herself. If he's/she's entertaining enough, it doesn't matter what he/she streams, people watch streams for the streamer, because he/she entertains the stream. So many people that don't play WoW themselves watch Asmongold, XQC can play what he wants and people will watch him, same goes for Sodapoppin. Forsen can just have his desktop showing and the chat entertains themselves.
    WoW also had a lot of content droughts, but what did Asmongold do? He made "custom" content for his viewers, integrated them into his stream every day. Fashion contest, mount-offs etc., even though the game was "boring" and there was "nothing to do".
    GW2 just doesn't have that type of entertaining streamer.

    A game can have high viewership due to being interesting, but that is mostly after a release/new update and the viewership falls off pretty quickly if that is the only thing a streamer has to offer.

  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    GW2 is a game where you only get your enjoyment from playing it. Watching others only works if the streamer has charisma and plans what content to stream and makes that entertaining. GW2 streamers and box openers aren't really good at that.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Well OP what did you all expect? You all complain about the Holy Trinity so arenanet made everything DPS which is pretty much led to everything being just the one one one one one spam Fest

  • Omernon.9762Omernon.9762 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    Nah. All you really need is a charismatic Streamer, because that kind of person can make absolutely any game entertaining to watch. The problem is that the community is not willing to watch GW streams not because the game is bad, but because we prefer to play the game ourselves. Most of Asmongolds viewers are former WoW players and he has more people watching his streams than there are people playing World of Warcraft, that’s how dead this game is. Yet it is fun to watch him farming rare mounts not because of game mechanics, but because of his personality.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Forum Wars 2 Player 1: "Why isn't GW2 popular on twitch?"
    Forum Wars 2 Player 2: "Who even watches twitch?"
    WoW: laughs in 23k accounts watching streams at the time of this post
    League of Legends: laughs in 140k accounts watching streams at the time of this post

    For reference, Gw2 currently has 500 people watching streams, over half of which are watching Wooden Potatoes discuss upcoming updates.

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:
    Forum Wars 2 Player 1: "Why isn't GW2 popular on twitch?"
    Forum Wars 2 Player 2: "Who even watches twitch?"
    WoW: laughs in 23k accounts watching streams at the time of this post
    League of Legends: laughs in 140k accounts watching streams at the time of this post

    For reference, Gw2 currently has 500 people watching streams, over half of which are watching Wooden Potatoes discuss upcoming updates.

    Doesn't sound too bad compared to ESO's current 900 viewers. There are more people watching Skyrim at the moment.
    MMORPGs have never been really popular on Twitch from a gameplay perspective. Even FFXIV currently only has 2k viewers at the time of this post. BDO has 4k, even though it has a smaller population than FFXIV.

    WoW is and will always be an exception to the rule, simply because it has some amazing personalities streaming, personalities that engage the average viewer and make them prone to watch other WoW streams.

    LoL belongs to a different genre, competitive games generally have a higher viewership.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    1. its not fun to watch.
    2. The cosmetics are hideous and the game has waaaaaay too much pandering for anyone to take seriously.
    3. The story is a dumpster fire on steroids.
    4. Balance does not exist
    5. The content is easy, and holds no weight or challenge. Therefor people have no reason to care or root for anyone; And the base game is free-to-play thus anyone who is interested can pick it up no problem.
    6. The dev's and company do little to promote it.
    7. Its very niche
    8. It has no roles, therefor nothing to learn or see.
    9. Classes are fundamentally the same
    10. Map grinding and raids really don't hold much in terms of content to be consumed by viewers, and competitive play is dead in the water because balance is literally a walking meme.

    Other than point 8 these seem spot on.

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    LoL belongs to a different genre, competitive games generally have a higher viewership.

    It sure is a shame this game lacks any form of compeditive pvp. /s

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    LoL belongs to a different genre, competitive games generally have a higher viewership.

    It sure is a shame this game lacks any form of compeditive pvp. /s

    You're comparing a game that is competitive from the ground up to a game where PvP is just one mode. There's a reason why pretty much no MMORPG has pvp tournaments with relatively big viewership, besides WoW.
    But i guess it isn't that obvious that LoL and GW2 don't belong to the same genre /s

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Raknar.4735 said:

    @Westenev.5289 said:

    @Raknar.4735 said:
    LoL belongs to a different genre, competitive games generally have a higher viewership.

    It sure is a shame this game lacks any form of compeditive pvp. /s

    You're comparing a game that is competitive from the ground up to a game where PvP is just one mode. There's a reason why pretty much no MMORPG has pvp tournaments with relatively big viewership, besides WoW.
    But i guess it isn't that obvious that LoL and GW2 don't belong to the same genre /s

    All I'm saying is that there are a viewer base that watches this stuff, and if Gw2 combat were easier to follow (less skill spam/rotation, more impactful skill usage), it could be more fun to watch and easier to stream. I honestly believe Genre has absolutely nothing to do with this argument.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Can't see anything in a wvw or pve meta fight due to insane particle effects...how can you meaningfully watch?

  • knomslayer.9457knomslayer.9457 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

    There was one review by big youtuber and world of warcraft player Asmongold. Should check it out :lol:

  • Raknar.4735Raknar.4735 Member ✭✭✭

    @knomslayer.9457 said:

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

    There was one review by big youtuber and world of warcraft player Asmongold. Should check it out :lol:

    Asmongold isn't a youtuber.

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

  • I'm just going to repost what I said in the other thread:

    To try and answer the question... it has to deal with presentation. It is a strange way of looking at it, but really a videogame is a series of inconveniences that you're meant to deal with. Every enemy is problem that demands a solution, as is every puzzle, every dialogue chain, every platforming section, etc. and so on. When Anet made GW2, they sought to eliminate a lot of those inconveniences that plagued other games. Thing is, all of these little trivial problems are what made people watch.

    Take waypoints, for example. From the player's perspective, they're really fast and convenient, and in spite of the costs it is never worth it to just run it. However, from an onlookers perspective, the world map is a confusing system of nodes that you teleport around. Effectively, all environments are one-time experiences that are traversed once for map completion, and then forgotten about. In other games, the map is a set piece you continually interact with. As convenient as it is to just warp wherever you need to go, it is incredibly boring for anyone to watch.

    Another example is the loot system. Unlike other games, we don't have super rare, flash, legendary drops that are tied to specific areas. At least, not a lot of them. Now, our generalized loot and skin system is very convenient for playing dress-up and for gearing yourself up cheaply. However, for the onlooker, this just makes everything dull and meaningless. There isn't "that one drop" that you need to get from "that one enemy." There is no status recognition beyond legendary weapons, and all a legendary weapon really means is you grinded and/or bought your way to owning a legendary weapon. A lot of what makes the enemies interesting is the targeted drops, and these interesting enemies make the environment interesting, too. You have to traverse the environment to get to those specific enemies. Even if you get a precursor, all an onlooker will see is the icon in your inventory screen.

    This isn't an exhaustive list, nor is it just a few big issues. It is death by 1000 cuts, wherein everything added to make gameplay easier just makes it boring to watch.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Lilyanna.9361Lilyanna.9361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social. Literally, it took me a year to find friends that break that mold because EVERYONE just wants to stay in their bubbles all the time. It's boring. So you except to find streamers that doesn't have that?

    I mean yes, we DID have charismatic streamers but they are leaving. WP is the one that is standing strong while the more entertaining folks are pushing off to entertain elsewhere. It's how it is, but people don't like to think that way and try to push away that reality when it's kind of true. Gw2 is not as social as other MMOs that I have personally have been on.

  • mtpelion.4562mtpelion.4562 Member ✭✭✭

    The answer in this thread is the same as the answer in the other first page thread (please use the search function to prevent replicated threads).

    GW2 is a game designed and marketed towards people who either do not care or do not know what Twitch/streaming is, and therefore those who stream it will not get many viewers which makes streaming it pointless so there are less streamers.

    Asking why no one is streaming GW2 is like going to a sports bar and asking why none of the TVs are showing soap operas. It's a different target market.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social.

    That's just false.

  • Calvsie.3675Calvsie.3675 Member ✭✭✭

    The reason I don't oddly enough is because I'm playing GW2. I never watch a game on twitch while playing the same game. that and WoodenPotatoes gets on at like 1Am my time :P

    “You're no help," he told the lime. This was unfair. It was only a lime; there was nothing special about it at all. It was doing the best it could.”
    ― Neil Gaiman, Anansi Boys

  • Derdzvero.7051Derdzvero.7051 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social.

    That's just false.

    Well, if you imagine for a second that many players with 6000h in game have spent at least 1000h jumping between 30 Winterberry bushes, pressing F key...or similar "content gameplay" it's not that hard to imagine their psychological profile and OP's impression. Pretty much majority of "achievements" are directly targeting such... personalities.

  • Sobx.1758Sobx.1758 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Derdzvero.7051 said:

    @Sobx.1758 said:

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    It's because gw2 attracts certain types of personalities. Introverted and non-social.

    That's just false.

    Well, if you imagine for a second that many players with 6000h in game have spent at least 1000h jumping between 30 Winterberry bushes, pressing F key...or similar "content gameplay" it's not that hard to imagine their psychological profile and OP's impression. Pretty much majority of "achievements" are directly targeting such... personalities.

    Just because there are targets available for solo players doesn't mean the game is for introverted and non-social people. You can join 5 guilds and be in a party/squad 24/7 if you desire to do so. What's good about gw2 is its flexibility and casual approach to the player, the statement that it specifically targets non-social players is straight up false.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

    Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams IF THEY INTEREST ME
    I do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.
    Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.
    If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

    Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams IF THEY INTEREST ME
    I do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.
    Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.
    If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

    49 here, no intention to be rude. I just find that nobody I talk to even knows about Twitch (NL is like that), and I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 15, 2019

    @Goettel.4389 said:

    @Dami.5046 said:

    @Goettel.4389 said:
    Nah, reason is Twitch is a kid thing. GW2 is older folk (no source).

    Kinda a bit rude to keep bringing up age with this. I'm an oldie and I watch streams IF THEY INTEREST ME
    I do watch WP now and again. MT only does raids and i don't care about them. I watch AP on a Tuesday now and again and often after a content drop to see her reaction.
    Currently all what your precious streamers are doing are hyping up their leaving on one foot and trashing the game on the other. I don't want to sit through 4 people bashing this game for views,looking like butter wouldn't melt.
    If you don't like it why are you even playing? why not go now?

    49 here, no intention to be rude. I just find that nobody I talk to even knows about Twitch (NL is like that), and I just don't think it's that big of a deal.

    Apologizes, my comment wasn't an attack - many people on the first thread were making ageist comments regarding twitch and 'us older folk'
    I agree with you.

  • knomslayer.9457knomslayer.9457 Member ✭✭✭

    Gw2 will be popular in twitch after 30 aug announcement. More people will play gw2 than wow classic we will kill wow. Wow die we take their viewers hehe

  • AnakinJeakin.1604AnakinJeakin.1604 Member ✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:
    Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

    Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

    Kay.

    No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

    It did. TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jesse Cox, several Yogscast channels, Boogie2988, Day9, Cryaotic, Markiplier, the list goes on. Even that [insert derogatory term] PewDiePie got in on the action. Some of them were chased out by community inability to accept (or give) criticism.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

    It did. TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jesse Cox, several Yogscast channels, Boogie2988, Day9, Cryaotic, Markiplier, the list goes on. Even that [insert derogatory term] PewDiePie got in on the action. Some of them were chased out by community inability to accept (or give) criticism.

    GW2 got more than enough reviews and most of them were positive. Unfortunately all of them were from the release version and during the honeymoon period of the game, so many things changed. The expansions had very few reviews

  • Zuldari.3940Zuldari.3940 Member ✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Can't see anything in a wvw or pve meta fight due to insane particle effects...how can you meaningfully watch?

    Well that is a problem, but i think its more about playerbase. WoW has a big following for pvp, gw2 has a lot of players that wvw/pvp but there isnt a big call for streamers to promote kind of sad. I like watching these things in my off time .

    GW2 WVW vs WoW world pvp. they both are visual clusters lol. Go about 6 min into the wow one and you see what i mean about lag and clutter its the same problem with any mass player event.

    Coo! Quaggan Love's You! ♥♥♥

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:
    Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

    Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

    Kay.

    No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

    Right.

    Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

    http://collider.com/guardiancon-charity-raises-millions-for-st-jude/

    "miniscule minority" Kay.

    Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who watch streamers also play the game. In fact they may often play with the streamer, or they watch and play at the same time.

    Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

    Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

    I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

    And, often it seems, its not watch instead of play, its watch and play. My phone can handle playing videos and streaming but it cannot run gw2 when I am not at home. I personally dont generally watch others play a game. If I am not at my PC to play I will do something else entirely. However, I can imagine player so engaged with their game of choice that they seek out opportunities to interact with it, even indirectly, when they cannot actually play. I also know for a fact that there are those who will watch a stream, or videos, while actually playing the game.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zuldari.3940 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Can't see anything in a wvw or pve meta fight due to insane particle effects...how can you meaningfully watch?

    Well that is a problem, but i think its more about playerbase. WoW has a big following for pvp, gw2 has a lot of players that wvw/pvp but there isnt a big call for streamers to promote kind of sad. I like watching these things in my off time .

    GW2 WVW vs WoW world pvp. they both are visual clusters lol. Go about 6 min into the wow one and you see what i mean about lag and clutter its the same problem with any mass player event.

    But in wow, the user can turn off particle effects all together. In GW2 you cant. That wow video likely had the user not adjusting their effects. You can eliminate them in wow.

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

    Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

    I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

    Right .. so like I have been saying ... if they could choose, they would play. Those people don't have choice in your examples.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @witcher.3197 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    My guess is because there isn't a lot worth watching in the game. It's one of those better playing than watching.

    I mean...is it though?

    Just going to put this out there ... there is something FUNDAMENTALLY wrong with a game when someone chooses to watch another play it than play it themselves.

    I guess there's fundamentally wrong with everyone who watches events like the Olympics then.

    Um, no, because not everyone can participate in the olympics. Everyone CAN play gW2.

    I know people who will watch videos of games their computer cant run properly. Then there are people for whom playing the game would stretch their physical capabilities, but who enjoy watching the spectacle.

    Right .. so like I have been saying ... if they could choose, they would play. Those people don't have choice in your examples.

    I merely pointed out that your justification for discounting the sporting comparison, that everyone can play gw2, is incorrect. Certainly more people can play gw2 than can compete in the olympics though.

    And when they have a choice, as pointed out elsewhere in my post, they can watch and play.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:
    Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

    Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

    Kay.

    No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

    Right.

    Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

    http://collider.com/guardiancon-charity-raises-millions-for-st-jude/

    "miniscule minority" Kay.

    Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who watch streamers also play the game. In fact they may often play with the streamer, or they watch and play at the same time.

    Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

    It seems the charity events mentioned in the article are sponsored by larger organizations, rather than by individuals and the proceed do go for a good cause and I applaud those organizations and would support such events. Needless to say, though, I believe that GW2 is a game that people who play it, rather enjoy actually playing the game rather than watching someone else play it, which is the main basis for this topic.
    The "vitriol" aforementioned was an opinion only and should not have been perceived for as much as it was. For anyone's feelings I stepped on, you have my apologies.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    GW2 is more of game where you rather wanna play it and gather tons of shinies then watch others play it, SHINIES! btw

  • Susy.7529Susy.7529 Member ✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:
    "What's Twitch and why does it matter?" - Some GW2 players.

    Some=Every.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @AnakinJeakin.1604 said:
    Because maybe people enjoy playing the game more than watching other people telling them how to play it or enjoy it. Twitch is just making money for people preying on idiots

    Right. So your logic is to insult and attack people who were able to make a living out of something they love, are passionate about and enjoy? Not to mention annually contribute to charities?

    Kay.

    No, I insult people that are gullible enough to support people who do this for a living by watching them play a game they could play themselves. While I do not know for sure, I would be very certain that the ones that do donate are in a minuscule minority

    Right.

    Even though said charity streams raise hundreds of thousands of dollars, up into the millions of dollars? Last year streamers were able to raise 22 million dollars for charity.

    http://collider.com/guardiancon-charity-raises-millions-for-st-jude/

    "miniscule minority" Kay.

    Also I feel this shouldn't need to be repeated but I guess it needs to be; many people who watch streamers also play the game. In fact they may often play with the streamer, or they watch and play at the same time.

    Ignorance isn't an excuse for vitriol.

    It seems the charity events mentioned in the article are sponsored by larger organizations, rather than by individuals and the proceed do go for a good cause and I applaud those organizations and would support such events. Needless to say, though, I believe that GW2 is a game that people who play it, rather enjoy actually playing the game rather than watching someone else play it, which is the main basis for this topic.
    The "vitriol" aforementioned was an opinion only and should not have been perceived for as much as it was. For anyone's feelings I stepped on, you have my apologies.

    Right, and the point of view of "People would rather play the game than watch it" does keep popping up. However it has been repeatedly clashed against another perspective; that people are entirely capable of, and do, watch and play at the same time. Or in other circumstances they may be at work (desk job) or on a break from work, or on a train, in a car, laying in bed about to go to sleep, etc and are watching. Some people have streams on in the background, or just on another screen and watch that way while they play video games.

    Thats why I really don't view the "they would rather play than watch" as a valid argument as it directly implies that a person needs to choose to do one or the other, as if they are mutually exclusive and can't be done at the same time which is ultimately false.

  • Ultramex.1506Ultramex.1506 Member ✭✭✭

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Trise.2865 said:

    @Ultramex.1506 said:
    I feel that GW2 needs a review from big youtuber

    It did. TotalBiscuit, Angry Joe, Jesse Cox, several Yogscast channels, Boogie2988, Day9, Cryaotic, Markiplier, the list goes on. Even that [insert derogatory term] PewDiePie got in on the action. Some of them were chased out by community inability to accept (or give) criticism.

    GW2 got more than enough reviews and most of them were positive. Unfortunately all of them were from the release version and during the honeymoon period of the game, so many things changed. The expansions had very few reviews

    And so far, the only review from big youtuber i've seen so far is LazyPeon

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