Suggestion regarding Mounts and Roaming. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Suggestion regarding Mounts and Roaming.

Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
edited August 11, 2019 in WvW

Not sure if this topic has been raised over and over, but I would like to tackle it again.

Mounts are horrible for roaming.

No matter what people try and argue with, this is gonna be a well established fact.
Mounts give Defenders too much movement advantage, it is near suicide for a Roamer to even exist in enemy territory, mounted or not.
Mounts have given Defenders vastly increased reaction time when one of their camps or towers get contested, essentially tripling their movement speed in their own territory.
Mounts have killed professions which are prized on their superior mobility compared to other players, such as Thief (by adding a second healthbar to shield against opening bursts, and by outpacing if not keeping up with Thieves)

Right now the only map which forbids usage of any Expansion mechanics is Edge of the Mists, but I think Anet can very well extend this modifier to other maps.

Alpine : This map is extremely vast and Mounts could be allowed here.
EBG : This map should be the only map with all mechanics enabled.
Desert : I think Mounts could be disabled here, due to the rocky terrain disagreeing with the Mount's pathing and very steep cliffs which make Mount travel sometimes worse than traversing on foot.

Or maybe we should have a new BL soon, because we don't really need 2 Alpines.
(Something like a Cavern BL which runs underneath the Mists, with the map mostly flat with various cave systems, and having limited Gliding and disabled Mounts)

If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

Comments

  • bluberblasen.9684bluberblasen.9684 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 11, 2019

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    Alpine : This map is extremely vast and Mounts could be allowed here.
    EBG : This map should be the only map with all mechanics enabled.
    Desert : I think Mounts could be disabled here, due to the rocky terrain disagreeing with the Mount's pathing and very steep cliffs which make Mount travel sometimes worse than traversing on foot.

    i do not prefer mounts ( dont like them but i do not hate them either ) < solo / small scale roamer with passion >
    but when you want to " reduce " mounts you have to change the maps.

    EBG = Zero mounts = less lags
    Alpine = no mount because it is THE roamer map.
    Desert: mounts on because its the biggest map and the majority dont play it

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    Or they can make EotM actually start counting to War score, and people will actually play there.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    The point is no one populates EotM.

    Why would anyone roam just to Pve, that's just Pve.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • TamX.1870TamX.1870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    If Anet would care about WvW they would not have added mounts add all. OK roaming was already dead before mounts. But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    I have a mixed feelings toward that. No, I won't say mounts are bad. What mounts do is that they unify the movement speed of a group, that is, your "slow" units can stay within a group.

    What I don't like at all is that dismounting is so horribly difficult. In the previous game I played, WvW-style game mode had mounts, but they were very low health and people could be dismounted (and knocked down for second or so) with one attack. Mounts were only to take you to your objective through the landscape.

    This (dismount difficulty) of course benefits people who are traveling from spawn point back to group, as they don't need to worry much about possible enemies on the way. It shifts the action more to larger groups and map objectives, as traveling alone is safer for you (no need to wait more people to come to form escort), your entire team can stay together no matter of class's mobility differences and so on.

    I understand that it is not possible (or difficult) to scale down mount health, but at the moment they are like armored vehicles in a war zone from where you can relative safely observe your surrounding while it takes you from point A to point B.

    Maybe we could get "special" action to dismount enemy player when there is one in suitable range? Maybe we could get some "spike mats" (bit similar to PoF map NPC spike mats) to be thrown to the way to stop the enemies to advance, and to force them to fight instead of reaching their destination with ease? Maybe we could get some roadside bombs that would be only triggered by mounted enemies and not only dismounting them, but do also hit them relatively heavy.

    It can also be difficult to decrease the mount speed to give more room for high mobility builds, but I'd really adjust it to fit to the classes.

  • Dante.1763Dante.1763 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    The point is no one populates EotM.

    Why would anyone roam just to Pve, that's just Pve.

    I mean thats all i do. My servers never busy enough to attempt taking keeps or towers when im playing so all i -can- do is capture camps, and kill yaks and sentrys.
    For that, i love my mount, as i can finally flee from kitten mesmers and thiefs on my ele.

    Amana Silentchild; My Main
    Ember Wandertooth; The Kingslayer, Kianda Redpaw; The Blazing Light
    Why GW is Called Guildwars

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Idk I have a good time roaming with my warclaw, in enemy territory.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    You can adapt in this situation. Although I was really against mounts and thought that it would kill roaming (and it did really hurt, a lot) I adapted to the situation. Mounts did lessen the fights and gankers are still ganking. Before, only 1 person was ganking, now there are at least 2, one to dismount, one to instantly kill you if you are too slow to dismount (stun). Scouting became more important yet harder than it was before.

    On the other hand I thought it would widen the build/profession variety in wvw, and it did a little. Although I see the general win button-cheesy builds a lot, I tend to see some experimental builds too. Even I tried many different builds and professions (some worked brilliantly and some made me feel like a vocal punching bag). I am very happy for necros as they can roam now with the help of the warclaw. WET temptests can roam too if the profession balance was not horrible (old time tempest, still bitter about balance).

    Sadly it is way past the fix time for this mount-roaming issue. Only thing we can do is adapt now. At least this is my opinion.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    So like, mounts are kinda bugged, cause like when I hop hop and try to pounce it will like go on cooldown, and then like I can only keep hop hop until it goes off cooldown which is like, super annoying, o, m, g, annnnoying, so like, they should like, I dunno like, fix it, cause I didn't like press it, so like why is it like going on cooldown, it's like better to dismount, but that's like unfair, so like fix it.

    Another derailing post. ^^
    EBG North Keep: One of the village residents will now flee if their home is destroyed!
    || Stealth is a Terribad Mechanic || Class Offense Defense Movement Balance is So Terribad ||

  • Warkind.6745Warkind.6745 Member ✭✭✭

    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    All is vain.

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yesterday I faced a condi mesmer. Both came in mounted, both dismounted, he got a massive condi burst in within the first 10s of the fight and I died from it because I couldnt cleanse it all.

    So I respawned, mounted up and returned... He was still there. Now I was much more cautious, ranged and evaded the condi burst. As he failed, he teleported OOC.

    So I engaged again, he stealthed and... failed his condi burst again. Then he teleported OOC.

    So I engaged again, we danced, he stealthed and... failed his condi burst again. He teleported OOC and mounted up. As I mounted up to pursue, he vanished (tp to spawn presumable).

    Buisness as usual with or without mounts.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

    Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

    Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

    Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

    Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

    This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.
    Gotta play them Nobles and Knights 😉
    (Its oddly addictive)

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

    Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

    Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

    This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.
    Gotta play them Nobles and Knights 😉
    (Its oddly addictive)

    Come play Smite with me lol.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

    Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

    Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

    This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.
    Gotta play them Nobles and Knights 😉
    (Its oddly addictive)

    Come play Smite with me lol.

    I haven't tried that yet lmao I might yet...
    Edit: had a look, not my sort of game.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    don't sure what we should care about roaming. ppl who roam is should be(they think so) extra skilled, and should have fail and fails, and fails ..
    They think that they a elite, so don't try stole that from roamers. Don't make this candy something another thing.

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @Gop.8713 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    They were circling me on their mounts? They did not leave the area and waited until I started attacking them? They were obviously not going to any objective...?

    The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    Sure, me trying to get a fight where its 2 them vs 1 of me is so cowardly. :eyeroll:

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 16, 2019

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Totally miss the point. A mode like wvw should be threatening to zerg builds on way to their zerg. They should feel danger as soon as they step out of thier camp in fear of predators out in the map not be able to tra la la back to their zerg free of danger. U guys may think it's great for u but it's bad for the health of a open world pvp mode even if its objective based. After the boom of pve'ra coming into get thier mount the wvw population which already wasnt great to begin with has been falling fast and I believe mounts among other reasons are responsible. Enjoy ur ambush free joint back to ur zerg in ur empty lifeless game mode lol.

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Pretty much this.

    Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

    If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Pretty much this.

    Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

    If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

    So you are saying that the hardcounter of 1 roamer vs 1 zerger is entirely different from the hard counter of 50 zergers vs 1 roamer?

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

    You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

    So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

    "The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Pretty much this.

    Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

    If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

    You were saying?
    Once they die to you, they dont try again. And not having the ability to fight the only 3 players from an enemy server sort of sucks.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

    You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

    So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

    "The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

    No I don't mean ganking, I mean roaming.

    Like back capping T3 camps, but enemy response time due to mounts makes it suicide.

    Even if yu kill a guy repeatedly, they will be back at the capture point within 15 seconds and keep contesting until Guard spawn/ more players start pouring in.

    As someone who has done this myself (single handedly contest a T3 camp for 5 minutes waiting for my allies to come and help) I can say roaming in this sense is dead.

    If yur content to just pick up paper camps which are getting flipped every 5 minutes near the borders of yur territory so be it.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

    You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

    So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

    "The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

    No I don't mean ganking, I mean roaming.

    Like back capping T3 camps, but enemy response time due to mounts makes it suicide.

    Even if yu kill a guy repeatedly, they will be back at the capture point within 15 seconds and keep contesting until Guard spawn/ more players start pouring in.

    As someone who has done this myself (single handedly contest a T3 camp for 5 minutes waiting for my allies to come and help) I can say roaming in this sense is dead.

    If yur content to just pick up paper camps which are getting flipped every 5 minutes near the borders of yur territory so be it.

    Let’s be clear: taking a T3 camp (or T3 anything) is never backcapping......

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    Totally miss the point. A mode like wvw should be threatening to zerg builds on way to their zerg. They should feel danger as soon as they step out of thier camp in fear of predators out in the map not be able to tra la la back to their zerg free of danger. U guys may think it's great for u but it's bad for the health of a open world pvp mode even if its objective based. After the boom of pve'ra coming into get thier mount the wvw population which already wasnt great to begin with has been falling fast and I believe mounts among other reasons are responsible. Enjoy ur ambush free joint back to ur zerg in ur empty lifeless game mode lol.

    You write a lot without saying "why". Why should you have a clear advantage over someone? Why should someone running to his zerg fear to get ganked by a group of people? The game mode doesn't demand it neither does the rest of the game. That's your vision of the game not a design of the game. You would like to have it that way.

    1)
    And roamers already have a huge advantage in any case.

    • they choose where to fight
    • they have the way better mobility
    • they have way better burst
    • they are in most cases not alone
      The mount only took one of that advantages from you. And many roaming builds can easily dismount a player.

    2) Why doesn't the same apply to "your kind of gameplay"?
    Shouldn't you have to fear too to be ganked or ambushed? Why should this all be exclusive to zerg players? If you are on a roaming build the only thing to fear is dying by boredom or getting run over by a zerg when afk in the ruins.
    There is no risk for those builds that have the above mentioned options. You can outrun anyone, you can out dps most of the other builds, you have options to reset the fight.
    Why should that be the case?

    And sorry again, but I roam more often than I zerg. Sadly all that "roamer" builds prefer to run from me instead of attacking? I wonder why? Maybe because I don't die in two hits and it doesn't feel rewarding when you have to reset the fight three or four times and still can't win.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • gebrechen.5643gebrechen.5643 Member ✭✭✭

    Weird post. Sadly with no worth for anyone here.

    Disciples of the monkey god [Apes]

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mounts aren't the direct cause of people avoiding fights, nor are roamers the only ones that pick and choose what they fight. That's why sneaking into towers and ninja capping them is so fun, people will actually fight over those most of the time, and even if I fail the cap, now I have a guaranteed fight as they try to get me out of the tower.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I still only roam, still haven't been affected by mounts . . .

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Or if you care about what you call roaming you stop caring for War Score and play EotM.

    I don't think enough ppl care about the score for that to make a difference. Adding pips and participation to EotM would probably do it though . . .

    @Turk.5460 said:
    I wanted to engage on a 1v2 the other day, 2 of them vs 1 of me and they still wouldn't dismount until I attacked and try to forcefully dismount one. It's a similar issue with players that wouldn't be able to start in melee range like Warriors. They'll only fight now if they can dismount on top of you. The mount breeds cowardice.

    Or those two players were looking for even/outnumbered fights themselves and weren't interested in fighting a solo player? Or they were zerglings uninterested in small scale and didn't want to waste time on individual fights as they headed back to their large scale conflict? Or any of a dozen other reasons . . ?

    I continue to maintain that one of the best things the mount has done for roaming is eliminate all the worthless fights against opponents who aren't up for it. The ppl who seem to be most upset about it are those who had previously taken all their enjoyment from the opportunities to rack up easy kills, which actually is cowardly . . .

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    I still don't understand why this is taking so long. The last we heard about it was that it was basically ready. Then nothing for what seems like ever . . .

    @Anput.4620 said:

    @Marxx.5021 said:
    But that somebody on a mount can just ride away is just poor game design.

    Why don't the bads get this?

    It is really simple, OP explained it perfectly.

    I am surprised some white knight didn't make a comment here yet to defend this BS.

    Sry I'm late, was playing the game . . .

    Based on the decisions they have made it seems clear what anet wants for wvw is more large scale combat in more active maps. The mount helps facilitate this. Those of us looking for something else must adapt or move on . . .

    This is true. Sadly most seem to have taken the "move on" option... and it doesnt help League has introduced a new game mode which is taking the world by storm.
    Gotta play them Nobles and Knights 😉
    (Its oddly addictive)

    Come play Smite with me lol.

    I haven't tried that yet lmao I might yet...
    Edit: had a look, not my sort of game.

    What doesn't look good about it to you?

  • Anput.4620Anput.4620 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2019

    @DeadlySynz.3471 said:
    Mounts aren't horrible for roaming; they actually allow the "roamer" to do actual "roaming" things infinitely quicker. Ganking however OP, that's a different story.

    You said it yourself "suicide for roamers to exist in enemy territory"; so the question is, why is the roamer there in the first place? You know how quick it is to mount up and flip a camp or ninja a tower with a small group on mounts? Ridiculously quick and easy (unless the tower is T2 or T3). However OP, IF the "roamer" aka "Ganker" is meandering around enemy territory with the only real intention of flipping sentires and ambushing, it is suicide. That behavior simply will not work anymore, that's an established fact.

    So while the statement is true mounts have destroyed ganking, the following statement is completely untrue (an established fact) mounts have destroyed roaming. It's the exact opposite, mounts have made roaming so much easier.. much much much easier.

    "The point is no one populates EoTM, why would someone roam to PvE?" Easy answer, if all the roamers went there, it'd be populated. If you want warscore, then jump on a mount, invade enemy territory and start flipping stuff, it's so ridiculously easy. As I said, if you're definition of roaming is hanging around in enemy territory waiting to ambush, well those days are long long gone, and they are never ever coming back.

    Sooo, roaming is PvE now?

    Also, ganking means outnumbering, engaging in combat isn't an inherently bad thing to do.

    Why does the mode have to be PvE oriented? We have other modes for that, how can a world pvper from another MMO come to WvW and enjoy this in its current state?

    I feel like most poeple here just take empty castles, like, why? What is so fun about that?

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Pretty much this.

    Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

    If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

    So you are saying that the hardcounter of 1 roamer vs 1 zerger is entirely different from the hard counter of 50 zergers vs 1 roamer?

    Nope.

    Try addressing what I did say.

  • SoV.5139SoV.5139 Member ✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @SoV.5139 said:

    @gebrechen.5643 said:
    Can we start differentiating between ganking and roaming?
    If you see fighting people you already have an advantage over as roaming the mount takes that away from you. Good.
    If you want to "fight" other roamers the mount takes nothing away from you.

    The issue is that most people never cared for roaming. They ran around borderlands with their "safe space build" and killed people they could, not based on skill but the games balance, outrun and outdps. So they took the fights where their chance to lose was below 20%. The same kind of player that runs around you in other mmorpg and don't touch you until you have pulled some mobs or you get attacked by another player already.
    Sorry, not sorry that the mount destroys your gameplay. Not at all.

    If you aren't in this category, there still should be plenty of roamers around that you can fight all day (based on the posts on this forums)

    Pretty much this.

    Anyone in disbelief roll up a necro and see how fast you have rangers and deadeye chasing you all over the place. Dont think Ive ever seen a hard counter quite like this in any PVP game, and Ive played/reviewed hundreds of them. 90% of the "roamers" nowdays are gimmick burst DPS builds with a full escape kit ready to be blown the second they attack someone who knows how to hit a dodge key twice. I actually managed to kill a few of these within the past week, and they are pretty much the only folks who start trash talking in tells afterward. I never respond directly, but I do save the salt for display in the trophy case.

    If I am on any other charcter, I can roll past these same folks and they dont even bat an eye. Its easy perceived kill or nothing in game, and eThug® talk on the forums.

    You were saying?
    Once they die to you, they dont try again. And not having the ability to fight the only 3 players from an enemy server sort of sucks.

    Not proving anything I said wrong here or showing me anything I didnt know.

    If that guy was a ranger worth anything higher than a silver rating, he'd be somewhere between 1200 and 1500 feet away pew pewing, not standing next to you on a mount waiting for you to blow cooldowns.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Judt shows that other than a select few specs that can dismount players super easy the rest sit mounted staring at each other before trotting away. Gee what a great way promote a healthy pvp mode by adding mounts to it lmao.

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    I've chased players on mounts all the way from north camp, all the way back to their spawn with mounts. I can't say I like it, but it has it's uses. Easily killing a downed player before they can get back up again is a firm plus in my book.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KeyOrion.9506 said:
    I've chased players on mounts all the way from north camp, all the way back to their spawn with mounts.

    Lol. "Git off mAh lawn!"

  • KeyOrion.9506KeyOrion.9506 Member ✭✭✭

    You can literally keep up with a mounted enemy, but you still need to do enough dmg to the mount to get them off it. And even then, the enemy player uses escape skills to further the distance between you and him....and then they remount, and the chase starts all over again. It goes both ways.

  • DemonSeed.3528DemonSeed.3528 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, it's a big part of the problem. People without POF will still face this problem when the dismount skill comes, so there needs to be a way for them to dismount as well without using mount. Otherwise it's just Benny Hill.

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 20, 2019

    @Warkind.6745 said:
    Maybe that big content reveal on the 30th will be the dismount ability mentioned so long ago.

    If its only that, then its just another letdown. But with the current state of WvW, its not an easy fix to bring it back to life. Even with the long shot; reverting the changes/additions, damage is done.

    Will probably need to overhaul entire WvW with everything taken into account (mount etc) to make it work again but even then, no gurantees and opening another can of worms.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.