Am I waisting my time with DE

Let me put this straight Im in the middle of pre crafting my amended zerker's set for my rifle DE. Im mainly interested in PvE and plan on using my DE to explore the new maps for the first time. I tested dead eye during stress test and even vets seemed to melt away quickly.

I see a lot of people whining about how terrible dead eye DPS is and i ran my own personal tests durring the beta weekend on golems and DPS meter and things did not look promising

I however dont follow any of the devs or keep track of that stuff, im looking to ask if anyone here knows anything about what the devs have been saying if there sre plans to change many of the glaring flaws in DE (cats time on mark, WASD to cancel kneel, Malace stacks vanishing when you kill a target, ETC...)

DPS meters can get pretty high when it comes to AoE, but Deadeye is meant for single-target bursting. This is why it "doesn't look promising". However the fact is that it has much higher DPS per target and as such can destroy key targets much more quickly like guards, eles and necros. If Deadeye suddenly had AoE damage at it's current output, everything would die and nobody could do anything about it.

I thought DE would be more power damage, because the malice dps gain is insane.maybe with DE, D/D power can be a thing again in PVE

Wouldn't doubt it. But only rifle really benefits from Malice compared to other sets.

There are things people overlook a lot for rifle.

Most of the shots pierce. The stealth attack is unblockable. The extra damage from the traits adds up.

Quickness is huge for rifle DPS and using kneel skills makes the projectiles stupid fast.

I'd not use zerker for rifle thief. Traited, the rifle skills get +20% critical chance. No need to use precision as much.

People have a hard time understanding the difference between burst and dps. They are 2 different things. Where you feel like you have a ton of "dps" from open world play (those mobs die fast...they are weak), you really don't.

DE, as presented in the demo/stress tests, with rifle had lower dps than P/P. Which is pathetic and nonviable at a setting like raids.

Power d/d DE is something I did not have a feasible way of reliably testing; however, condi d/d DE under-performs significantly compared to condi d/d DD.

Will this change come live release? We have to wait and see if they addressed it.

Should it affect you? Based on your comments, no...because you only seem concerned with open world PvE. Dps is irrelevant to you. You can spam 1 and get away with it.

would marauder be a good choice for Deadeye stats or would it lose too much dps (both pvp and pve escenarios)? i really like the gameplay of deadeye but i dont like having only 11k hp XP

@Zacchary.6183 said:DPS meters can get pretty high when it comes to AoE, but Deadeye is meant for single-target bursting. This is why it "doesn't look promising".

What? No! You need to educate yourself on how to use dps meters if you think it's all AoE damage.

@Zacchary.6183 said:However the fact is that it has much higher DPS per target and as such can destroy key targets much more quickly like guards, eles and necros.

No, just plain no. You need to understand the difference between "dps" and "burst".

@Zacchary.6183 said:If Deadeye suddenly had AoE damage at it's current output, everything would die and nobody could do anything about it.

I have no words...I'm just going to go facedesk.

@Lighter.5631 said:I thought DE would be more power damage, because the malice dps gain is insane.

What? That's not how dps works. As presented in the demo/stress test, the "dps gain" is a dps loss. You get a lot higher modifiers from DD, which is constant and consistent, unlike malice from DE.

@Lighter.5631 said:maybe with DE, D/D power can be a thing again in PVE

Power d/d has been a thing in PvE, it never died. It's underused because it lacks AoE and needs more attention to positioning, compared to staff. You can literally play ANYTHING in open world PvE. Balance and builds are all irrelevant for success in open world PvE.

@saerni.2584 said:Most of the shots pierce.

This is entirely false. There's only 1 skill that pierces based on the demo/stress tests.

@saerni.2584 said:The extra damage from the traits adds up.

This applies to everything, not just rifle. Really poor argument if you're trying to defend rifle dps (which you feasibly cannot if you understand anything about dps).

@Tora.7214 said:would marauder be a good choice for Deadeye stats or would it lose too much dps (both pvp and pve escenarios)? i really like the gameplay of deadeye but i dont like having only 11k hp XP

Marauder is the only viable choice currently for power thief (does not matter what you play) in PvP.

As far as open world PvE is concerned, it is all irrelevant. You can play with nomad stats and auto attack your way through it all.

Ah, you are correct only the 2 skills pierce. For some reason thought that was more prevalent.

But I will say the triple shot skill with quickness was very fast and effective. With 1500 range that skill might be better than DJ in practical application.

Yeah, idk, pretty disappointed in Deadeye. I'm not too upset, mainly because Daredevil is so flexible and such a blast to play. I did really like the idea of a sniper thief, but the execution is so clunky....

Since the subject of comparing D/D Daredevil and D/D Deadeye came up, here are a few theoritical values:

Daredevil - a D/D Power daredevil would benefit from :

• Havoc Mastery (+7% Damage when in close range); Since he would have to be within range to strike, this is a constant bonus.
• Bounding dodger (+10% Damage for 4s after a dodge); Using only natural regeneration, a DD can keep Dodging every 6.66s, meaning an uptime of about 60% of this trait.With that, a D/D Power Daredevil has -at worst- an total average of +13% damage. If he can manage a 100% uptime for Bounding Dodge, he's at a total +17% damage.A note about Endurance : Any extra regeneration (Vigor, Channeled Vigor, Dagger Autoattack chain...) increases the Bounding Dodger potential uptime, meaning that most Daredevil would be above the worst case, especially in group situations.

Deadeye - a D/D Power deadeye would benefit from :

• Deadeye's Mark (+3% damage per stack of Malice); If you are constantly attacking, you gain one stack every 2s, culminating at 5 stacks; In addition Deadeye's Mark ends after 25s with a 30s recharge time. A quick calculation tells us that Deadeye's Mark average damage increase is a nice +10%.
• Renewing Gaze (Recharge mark if your mark is deafeted); In the best case scenario (the mark dies juste before Deadeye's Mark runs out), this increase the Deadeye's Mark average to +12%
• Revealed Malice (Being Revealed from stealth grants 1 Malice); If you reveal yourself just after marking, this increase the Deadeye's Mark average to +10.9%; combined with best-case Renewing Gaze, the Deadeye's Mark average is increase to +13.08%
• Maleficent Seven (-25% Malice generation, 7 malice cap); thanks to maleficent seven, you gain one stack every 1.5s, up to 7 stacks; This increase Deadeye's Mark base average damage increase to ~13.5%.Considering all that, a D/D Daredevil has at worst a total average of +13.5%. In the best situation, he can maybe manage a +17.22% instead.A note about Might : the deadeye as a few new ways to gain might, which will increase his damage. However, in many group situations, any thief can get many stacks of might for allies, which mostly negates this advantage in PvE.

Based on those percentages, both build may seem balanced with each other. However, there are a few extra considerations to take into account :

• the Deadeye loses all malice if his mark is deafeted. This means when fighting groups, his overall damage bonus drops majorly, since he's forced to start back from 0 each time he kills his mark.
• the Daredevil as a far better initial damage increase, since he can reliably start the fight with his full +17% damage, and can easily keep it for at least 20s before droping back to +13%.

Overall, I find that the Daredevil is both more reliable with a greater allowance for error, making it better than the Deadeye concerning direct damage increase for D/D.I am aware that those values are theoritical _and _that I may have made errors. Feel free to correct me, but I'm overall trusting in my conclusion.

As a closing note : despite all that, I still intend to play a lot with the Deadeye because the playstyle appeals to me.

@Asur.9178 said:

@Zacchary.6183 said:DPS meters can get pretty high when it comes to AoE, but Deadeye is meant for single-target bursting. This is why it "doesn't look promising".

@Zacchary.6183 said:However the fact is that it has much higher DPS per target and as such

can destroy key targets much more quickly

like guards, eles and necros.

@Zacchary.6183 said:If Deadeye suddenly had AoE damage at it's current output, everything would die and nobody could do anything about it.

You should join a debate club. Seriously, they would love to chew you up.I do know how to use DPS meters and I do know how they work. I also have a firm grasp on the benefits of single-target and AoE damage in MMOs thanks to these DPS meters and my own testing, something that most players don't do. I also know the difference between bursting and DPS. But here is the thing about them... DPS also applies to bursting. It applies to anything related to damage.

As an example, WoW. I used to play a hunter on there years ago. Noticed there were skills/traits/whatever that were single target and tried them out in places like raids and PvP. One time I got stuck with a raid party that ragged on me because my build wasn't meta, yet when it came to bosses I was consistently #1 in terms of DPS and so they never kicked me. While I wasn't that great at DPSing mobs, I was totally able to destroy anything that healed or generally caused problems for the group while everyone was taking their precious time hitting as many enemies at once. While their DPS was much higher than mine in those instances, I was more useful. Same thing applied to PvP, where I would consistently win outnumbered fights (best I had was 3v9) because I was able to find and destroy the Healer before picking off the DPS (even in PvE gear). It is no different in GW2.

And facedesk all you want. If Death's Judgement was an AoE Explosion at it's current strength (fully buffed like it's supposed to be) you are dealing 5 digit numbers (let's say 17k crit for argument's sake) to the target and 4 others around them. This would demolish a group. But it doesn't because that would destroy balance. Compare that to Vault which doesn't get the benefit from godly self buffs DJ has and tends to crit around 5-10k per target, assuming you are using the same stats. If Vault had access to all the buffs and bonuses Death's Judgement has, it would deal way more. And that would also break the game. Every MMO ever balances single target attacks to be bursty while AoE usually pump out more overall damage. It is all a numbers game and that is all DPS meters measure.

@Aralicia.6157 said:Since the subject of comparing D/D Daredevil and D/D Deadeye came up, here are a few theoritical values:

Daredevil - a D/D Power daredevil would benefit from :

• Havoc Mastery (+7% Damage when in close range); Since he would have to be within range to strike, this is a constant bonus.
• Bounding dodger (+10% Damage for 4s after a dodge); Using only natural regeneration, a DD can keep Dodging every 6.66s, meaning an uptime of about 60% of this trait.With that, a D/D Power Daredevil has -at worst- an total average of +13% damage. If he can manage a 100% uptime for Bounding Dodge, he's at a total +17% damage.A note about Endurance : Any extra regeneration (Vigor, Channeled Vigor, Dagger Autoattack chain...) increases the Bounding Dodger potential uptime, meaning that most Daredevil would be above the worst case, especially in group situations.

Deadeye - a D/D Power deadeye would benefit from :

• Deadeye's Mark (+3% damage per stack of Malice); If you are constantly attacking, you gain one stack every 2s, culminating at 5 stacks; In addition Deadeye's Mark ends after 25s with a 30s recharge time. A quick calculation tells us that Deadeye's Mark average damage increase is a nice +10%.
• Renewing Gaze (Recharge mark if your mark is deafeted); In the best case scenario (the mark dies juste before Deadeye's Mark runs out), this increase the Deadeye's Mark average to +12%
• Revealed Malice (Being Revealed from stealth grants 1 Malice); If you reveal yourself just after marking, this increase the Deadeye's Mark average to +10.9%; combined with best-case Renewing Gaze, the Deadeye's Mark average is increase to +13.08%
• Maleficent Seven (-25% Malice generation, 7 malice cap); thanks to maleficent seven, you gain one stack every 1.5s, up to 7 stacks; This increase Deadeye's Mark base average damage increase to ~13.5%.Considering all that, a D/D Daredevil has at worst a total average of +13.5%. In the best situation, he can maybe manage a +17.22% instead.A note about Might : the deadeye as a few new ways to gain might, which will increase his damage. However, in many group situations, any thief can get many stacks of might for allies, which mostly negates this advantage in PvE.

Based on those percentages, both build may seem balanced with each other. However, there are a few extra considerations to take into account :

• the Deadeye loses all malice if his mark is deafeted. This means when fighting groups, his overall damage bonus drops majorly, since he's forced to start back from 0 each time he kills his mark.
• the Daredevil as a far better initial damage increase, since he can reliably start the fight with his full +17% damage, and can easily keep it for at least 20s before droping back to +13%.

Overall, I find that the Daredevil is both more reliable with a greater allowance for error, making it better than the Deadeye concerning direct damage increase for D/D.I am aware that those values are theoritical _and _that I may have made errors. Feel free to correct me, but I'm overall trusting in my conclusion.

As a closing note : despite all that, I still intend to play a lot with the Deadeye because the playstyle appeals to me.

You forgot that Deadeye's Rifle and most of the abilities that comes with the Deadeye have bonuses that increase boon/condition durations or damage based on how much malice they have. Since malice is gained overtime, the Deadeye's damage shines brighter as the fight drags on, whereas the Daredevil explodes the minute the fight starts. Another thing is that Deadeye's self buffs are both numerous and powerful. So while they might not be good at starting fights as a Daredevil can, they can definitely get to Daredevil's level of power quickly enough to make that a non-issue. Just wanted to point this out.

If you're awful busy following the Meta, probably.If you like changing things up a bit without worrying too much about it, probably not.