Mirage trade-off suggestion — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mirage trade-off suggestion

Cardolan.9123Cardolan.9123 Member ✭✭
edited August 17, 2019 in Mesmer

Trade-offs are not necessarily nerfs or buffs, they should be designs that change the playstyle while approaching the elite spec theme. Mirage has the unique dodge and ambush but the shatter play I think is still quite similar to core mes so I think we can rework mirage shatters into ambushes that doesn't destroy clones but retarget them, cuz the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering.

Ambush F1:
Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack deals a follow-up strike (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
Range: 300

Ambush F2
Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies confusion (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
Range:300

Ambush F3
Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s daze.
Range 300

Ambush F4
Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s distortion.
Breaks target
Range 300

Also there can be some change to this trait:
Elusive mind: this trait is removed from the game (lulz)
Ambush master: this new grandmaster trait increases the range of all ambush skills (both F1~F4 and weapon ambush skills). Range +300 in PVE. Range +150 in PVP & WVW.

Advantages of the trade-off:
4 clone retarget skills that also teleports and one of them breaks target (clone retargeting, quick teleports and target break fit the mirage theme and mechanics)
Shatters no longer destroy clones cuz they are ambushes now (the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering)

Disadvantages of the trade-off:
The mirage needs to be close range to use F1~F4 skills if untraited. (the mirage theme is around melee combat anyway)
F1 and F2 no longer do AOE, F3 can still be an AOE daze around the attack if traited (it's a duelist spec I guess)
F1~F4 no longer scales with the number of clones. Trait effects may still scale. (big clone shatters are more of a core mes thing)
The mirage needs to land an attack to deliver the F1~F4 ambush effects and trait effects for attacks. Trait effects for boons may still be instant. (still differentiate mirage from core shatters that are instant)

Comments

  • Vieux P.1238Vieux P.1238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    WoW classic is the best trade off for losing CI.

    Winter Nerf is coming!

  • Heartpains.7312Heartpains.7312 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cardolan.9123 said:
    Trade-offs are not necessarily nerfs or buffs, they should be designs that change the playstyle while approaching the elite spec theme. Mirage has the unique dodge and ambush but the shatter play I think is still quite similar to core mes so I think we can rework mirage shatters into ambushes that doesn't destroy clones but retarget them, cuz the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering.

    Ambush F1:
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack deals a follow-up strike (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range: 300

    Ambush F2
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies confusion (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range:300

    Ambush F3
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s daze.
    Range 300

    Ambush F4
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s distortion.
    Breaks target
    Range 300

    Also there can be some change to this trait:
    Elusive mind: this trait is removed from the game (lulz)
    Ambush master: this new grandmaster trait increases the range of all ambush skills (both F1~F4 and weapon ambush skills). Range +300 in PVE. Range +150 in PVP & WVW.

    Advantages of the trade-off:
    4 clone retarget skills that also teleports and one of them breaks target (clone retargeting, quick teleports and target break fit the mirage theme and mechanics)
    Shatters no longer destroy clones cuz they are ambushes now (the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering)

    Disadvantages of the trade-off:
    The mirage needs to be close range to use F1~F4 skills if untraited. (the mirage theme is around melee combat anyway)
    F1 and F2 no longer do AOE, F3 can still be an AOE daze around the attack if traited (it's a duelist spec I guess)
    F1~F4 no longer scales with the number of clones. Trait effects may still scale. (big clone shatters are more of a core mes thing)
    The mirage needs to land an attack to deliver the F1~F4 ambush effects and trait effects for attacks. Trait effects for boons may still be instant. (still differentiate mirage from core shatters that are instant)

    Does people who suggest these tradeoffs play mesmer even? WE DON'T want to be close to most f the classes, get these ideas out of your head.
    And it is enough that ambushes have cd i guess

    This tradeoff joke needs to apply to other classes, it seems that the tradeoff is only applying to mesmers these days and all the kitten issue is that core got nerfed heavily during their dartboard nerfs over the years.

    We really don't need to start explaining why every time someone suggests things like this ><

  • Jazz.4639Jazz.4639 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    only wanna speak in general so pls dont feel addressed cardolan but anet should just fast forget about this trade off-big and not sweet at all kitten, esp when its done as bad as with the chrono destruction. in my opinion elite specs should still somehow feel like the class you wanna play, a mirage or chrono still should feel like a mesmer, a spellbreaker should still feel like a warrior, so shatters need to be shatters (you can add some elite specific boni and link some part of the dmg to it but you shouldnt totally change how shatters work, also deleting illusionary persona after changing mesmer over several balance patches in a way that it lit needs to be baseline is just stupid and makes mesmer clunky and unfun to play. i never touched chrono until now because for me its is not a mesmer spec anymore. chrono was such a nice and already different spec and i was totall fine with elite specs adding some more skill ceiling and make classes less one-dimentional. also that chrono had 5 shatters instead 4 never was a reason for any power creep.
    nvm i read your suggestion wrong (first thought you wanna give retargeting like illusionary ambush to all shatters, that would be the biggest aids). so all i have to say is, with these type of shatters i think mirage wouldnt feel like a mesmer anymore...

  • Cardolan.9123Cardolan.9123 Member ✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    It's not necessarily weaker. Core ones are powerful at the cost of destroying clones, not so powerful when used without clones. And core shatter effects are not strictly ranged.

  • Cardolan.9123Cardolan.9123 Member ✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Cardolan.9123 said:
    Trade-offs are not necessarily nerfs or buffs, they should be designs that change the playstyle while approaching the elite spec theme. Mirage has the unique dodge and ambush but the shatter play I think is still quite similar to core mes so I think we can rework mirage shatters into ambushes that doesn't destroy clones but retarget them, cuz the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering.

    Ambush F1:
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack deals a follow-up strike (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range: 300

    Ambush F2
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies confusion (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range:300

    Ambush F3
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s daze.
    Range 300

    Ambush F4
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s distortion.
    Breaks target
    Range 300

    Also there can be some change to this trait:
    Elusive mind: this trait is removed from the game (lulz)
    Ambush master: this new grandmaster trait increases the range of all ambush skills (both F1~F4 and weapon ambush skills). Range +300 in PVE. Range +150 in PVP & WVW.

    Advantages of the trade-off:
    4 clone retarget skills that also teleports and one of them breaks target (clone retargeting, quick teleports and target break fit the mirage theme and mechanics)
    Shatters no longer destroy clones cuz they are ambushes now (the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering)

    Disadvantages of the trade-off:
    The mirage needs to be close range to use F1~F4 skills if untraited. (the mirage theme is around melee combat anyway)
    F1 and F2 no longer do AOE, F3 can still be an AOE daze around the attack if traited (it's a duelist spec I guess)
    F1~F4 no longer scales with the number of clones. Trait effects may still scale. (big clone shatters are more of a core mes thing)
    The mirage needs to land an attack to deliver the F1~F4 ambush effects and trait effects for attacks. Trait effects for boons may still be instant. (still differentiate mirage from core shatters that are instant)

    Does people who suggest these tradeoffs play mesmer even? WE DON'T want to be close to most f the classes, get these ideas out of your head.
    And it is enough that ambushes have cd i guess

    This tradeoff joke needs to apply to other classes, it seems that the tradeoff is only applying to mesmers these days and all the kitten issue is that core got nerfed heavily during their dartboard nerfs over the years.

    We really don't need to start explaining why every time someone suggests things like this ><

    My sincere apologies for my absolutely horrible suggestion. Here is a better one just for you.

    Mesmer balance change suggestion
    power spike (from mantra of pain):
    add an unblockable effect to this skill
    add an undodgable effect to this skill
    add a stunbreak effect to this skill
    add a blindness immunity effect to this skill
    this skill now grants pulsing stability (10 stacks 10s every 1s for 5s)
    increase the skill damage coefficient of this skill to about 75.0
    increase range to 5000 in PVE, 2500 in PVP & WVW
    fix a bug where this skill is blocked due to LOS

  • Mirage gains:

    • a bit more red

    Chronomancer gains:

    • a bit more blue

    Both loses:

    • a bit less purple

    There, both elites and core are balanced, and tradeoffs are fair.

  • @Cardolan.9123 said:
    My sincere apologies for my absolutely horrible suggestion. Here is a better one just for you.

    Mesmer balance change suggestion
    power spike (from mantra of pain):
    add an unblockable effect to this skill
    add an undodgable effect to this skill
    add a stunbreak effect to this skill
    add a blindness immunity effect to this skill
    this skill now grants pulsing stability (10 stacks 10s every 1s for 5s)
    increase the skill damage coefficient of this skill to about 75.0
    increase range to 5000 in PVE, 2500 in PVP & WVW
    fix a bug where this skill is blocked due to LOS

    LMAO

    Problem:

    • Fire in the house.

    Solution:

    • Tear down the walls so fire won't have fuel to burn.

    Meanwhile, the fire continues to burn.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    So to sum it up.
    Distadvantages :

    • clones no longer deal damage.
    • less survivability
    • Less cc
    • if you wanna do any damage you need to teleport yourself and all your clones into the enemy
      Advantages :

    • i guess it could be funny to teleport between people with 3 clones like spastic with f1,f2,f3,f4 blink jaunt staff 2, axe 3 ?

  • Jazz.4639Jazz.4639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I disagree with Jazz, I think elite specs should deviate from core and turn the profession into a new way of playing it.
    Chrono appart from F5 gimmick still played like core mesmer.
    Mirage appart from MC gimmick still plays like core mesmer.
    Take power for example, mesmers have been using the same combo since around 2012.

    I don't agree with these tradeoffs, but I don't think core should be on par with elite specs, like the ones responsible for this mess think and I'm certainly against the degenerate chrono massacre.

    I would like a system akin to ragnarok online where you play a completely different class depending on the path you followed.

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    we probabaly just disagree in how different elite specs should feel ;) for me i still wanna play a (shatter-) mesmer, otherwise they can just release 9 different classes each xpac and dont call it specialisations of a class. the gs shatter combo is the same because it is gs. it is the weapon you choose that has a strict burst combo. how would gs look on the cardonlan spec? cant imagine it different to just stand in range and cast your stuff (boring). it would became a second staff where you more or less spam everyhting on cd, except of the cc skill on button 5. maybe you would not even use gs on this spec at all, because if you cant combo it for the shatter burst it will be way too weak... its the weapons identity you are bored of. but if you play power gs mirage like core you will not even get near to play it on its max potential. mirage has way more combos even with the same weapon sets as core shatter mesmer. for chrono the difference is a bit less obvious, but even here, how good and flexible you are with your f5 combos clearly distinguish a good from a bad chrono and a good core mes can fall behind a less good core mes on chrono just because of that (in mirror build duels i mean). and that is just the obvious difference between core and chrono.
    at least for me the elites as we had them (before chrono got destroyed) had enough difference in playstyle offered to satify me and still make me able to play all weponsets with its identy (i love gs playstyle i love that it is hard to hit and that you have to outplay decent ppl to make it hit, apart from bursting out of nowhere ofc, i love that it is more of a melee weapon you need to combo with so much and with such a fast paced timing). i wanna play gs shatter mes on all specs and it should still feel like a gs shatter mes but with more ways of active and tactical plays make it less repetitiv, giving it more dimensions and more skill ceiling than core. this is clearly given on mirage even more than on chrono but fits for both. would be sad for me if you can have this gs shattermes mechanic only on core. but well when they do with mirage what they did to chrono than core is the only mesmer spec left anyway i guess :(

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cardolan.9123 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    It's not necessarily weaker. Core ones are powerful at the cost of destroying clones, not so powerful when used without clones. And core shatter effects are not strictly ranged.

    It seems weaker, damage/effects don't scale off clones so it could only be as strong as a 1 clone, otherwise it would become broken.

    @Jazz.4639 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I disagree with Jazz, I think elite specs should deviate from core and turn the profession into a new way of playing it.
    Chrono appart from F5 gimmick still played like core mesmer.
    Mirage appart from MC gimmick still plays like core mesmer.
    Take power for example, mesmers have been using the same combo since around 2012.

    I don't agree with these tradeoffs, but I don't think core should be on par with elite specs, like the ones responsible for this mess think and I'm certainly against the degenerate chrono massacre.

    I would like a system akin to ragnarok online where you play a completely different class depending on the path you followed.

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    we probabaly just disagree in how different elite specs should feel ;) for me i still wanna play a (shatter-) mesmer, otherwise they can just release 9 different classes each xpac and dont call it specialisations of a class. the gs shatter combo is the same because it is gs. it is the weapon you choose that has a strict burst combo. how would gs look on the cardonlan spec? cant imagine it different to just stand in range and cast your stuff (boring). it would became a second staff where you more or less spam everyhting on cd, except of the cc skill on button 5. maybe you would not even use gs on this spec at all, because if you cant combo it for the shatter burst it will be way too weak... its the weapons identity you are bored of. but if you play power gs mirage like core you will not even get near to play it on its max potential. mirage has way more combos even with the same weapon sets as core shatter mesmer. for chrono the difference is a bit less obvious, but even here, how good and flexible you are with your f5 combos clearly distinguish a good from a bad chrono and a good core mes can fall behind a less good core mes on chrono just because of that (in mirror build duels i mean). and that is just the obvious difference between core and chrono.
    at least for me the elites as we had them (before chrono got destroyed) had enough difference in playstyle offered to satify me and still make me able to play all weponsets with its identy (i love gs playstyle i love that it is hard to hit and that you have to outplay decent ppl to make it hit, apart from bursting out of nowhere ofc, i love that it is more of a melee weapon you need to combo with so much and with such a fast paced timing). i wanna play gs shatter mes on all specs and it should still feel like a gs shatter mes but with more ways of active and tactical plays make it less repetitiv, giving it more dimensions and more skill ceiling than core. this is clearly given on mirage even more than on chrono but fits for both. would be sad for me if you can have this gs shattermes mechanic only on core. but well when they do with mirage what they did to chrono than core is the only mesmer spec left anyway i guess :(

    Indeed, tbh I'm tired of clones/phantasms and shatters. Would have liked some gw1 mes vibes in one elite spec, but I understand some people play it because of those mechanics I'm tired off.
    As for power yeah you're right, mirage allows for some diverse combos instead of typical gs one and chrono did the same to an extend with f5, but at the end of the day it's still the same oldie but it is how you said, we disagree how elite specs should feel.
    Sadly and undoubtedly ANerf is on the hunt and mirage will get trashed next patch, core just doesn't cut it with all the nerfs that happened over the last 2 years, so mesmer will be pretty much dead for the vast majority of players.

    The degenerate

  • Jazz.4639Jazz.4639 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Cardolan.9123 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    It's not necessarily weaker. Core ones are powerful at the cost of destroying clones, not so powerful when used without clones. And core shatter effects are not strictly ranged.

    It seems weaker, damage/effects don't scale off clones so it could only be as strong as a 1 clone, otherwise it would become broken.

    @Jazz.4639 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:
    I disagree with Jazz, I think elite specs should deviate from core and turn the profession into a new way of playing it.
    Chrono appart from F5 gimmick still played like core mesmer.
    Mirage appart from MC gimmick still plays like core mesmer.
    Take power for example, mesmers have been using the same combo since around 2012.

    I don't agree with these tradeoffs, but I don't think core should be on par with elite specs, like the ones responsible for this mess think and I'm certainly against the degenerate chrono massacre.

    I would like a system akin to ragnarok online where you play a completely different class depending on the path you followed.

    To the op: While I don't mind the general idea and like the fact that it would play somewhat different, I don't like the fact that these "shatters" are weaker than core ones and the fact that you crippled the range so you could throw a bandaid trait.

    we probabaly just disagree in how different elite specs should feel ;) for me i still wanna play a (shatter-) mesmer, otherwise they can just release 9 different classes each xpac and dont call it specialisations of a class. the gs shatter combo is the same because it is gs. it is the weapon you choose that has a strict burst combo. how would gs look on the cardonlan spec? cant imagine it different to just stand in range and cast your stuff (boring). it would became a second staff where you more or less spam everyhting on cd, except of the cc skill on button 5. maybe you would not even use gs on this spec at all, because if you cant combo it for the shatter burst it will be way too weak... its the weapons identity you are bored of. but if you play power gs mirage like core you will not even get near to play it on its max potential. mirage has way more combos even with the same weapon sets as core shatter mesmer. for chrono the difference is a bit less obvious, but even here, how good and flexible you are with your f5 combos clearly distinguish a good from a bad chrono and a good core mes can fall behind a less good core mes on chrono just because of that (in mirror build duels i mean). and that is just the obvious difference between core and chrono.
    at least for me the elites as we had them (before chrono got destroyed) had enough difference in playstyle offered to satify me and still make me able to play all weponsets with its identy (i love gs playstyle i love that it is hard to hit and that you have to outplay decent ppl to make it hit, apart from bursting out of nowhere ofc, i love that it is more of a melee weapon you need to combo with so much and with such a fast paced timing). i wanna play gs shatter mes on all specs and it should still feel like a gs shatter mes but with more ways of active and tactical plays make it less repetitiv, giving it more dimensions and more skill ceiling than core. this is clearly given on mirage even more than on chrono but fits for both. would be sad for me if you can have this gs shattermes mechanic only on core. but well when they do with mirage what they did to chrono than core is the only mesmer spec left anyway i guess :(

    Indeed, tbh I'm tired of clones/phantasms and shatters. Would have liked some gw1 mes vibes in one elite spec, but I understand some people play it because of those mechanics I'm tired off.
    As for power yeah you're right, mirage allows for some diverse combos instead of typical gs one and chrono did the same to an extend with f5, but at the end of the day it's still the same oldie but it is how you said, we disagree how elite specs should feel.
    Sadly and undoubtedly ANerf is on the hunt and mirage will get trashed next patch, core just doesn't cut it with all the nerfs that happened over the last 2 years, so mesmer will be pretty much dead for the vast majority of players.

    haha maybe try a different class when you are tired of clones, shatters and phantasm? thief could be a good replacement or rev :) ye im worried about mirage trade offs heavily after the disaster with chrono i dont trust anymore...

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 17, 2019

    @Heartpains.7312 said:

    @Cardolan.9123 said:
    Trade-offs are not necessarily nerfs or buffs, they should be designs that change the playstyle while approaching the elite spec theme. Mirage has the unique dodge and ambush but the shatter play I think is still quite similar to core mes so I think we can rework mirage shatters into ambushes that doesn't destroy clones but retarget them, cuz the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering.

    Ambush F1:
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack deals a follow-up strike (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range: 300

    Ambush F2
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies confusion (that does NOT scale with the number of clones).
    Range:300

    Ambush F3
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s daze.
    Range 300

    Ambush F4
    Ambush. Teleport the mirage and all clones to the new target, retarget your clones to the new target. Your next attack applies 1s distortion.
    Breaks target
    Range 300

    Also there can be some change to this trait:
    Elusive mind: this trait is removed from the game (lulz)
    Ambush master: this new grandmaster trait increases the range of all ambush skills (both F1~F4 and weapon ambush skills). Range +300 in PVE. Range +150 in PVP & WVW.

    Advantages of the trade-off:
    4 clone retarget skills that also teleports and one of them breaks target (clone retargeting, quick teleports and target break fit the mirage theme and mechanics)
    Shatters no longer destroy clones cuz they are ambushes now (the mirage theme relies on clones but NOT necessarily on clone generating and shattering)

    Disadvantages of the trade-off:
    The mirage needs to be close range to use F1~F4 skills if untraited. (the mirage theme is around melee combat anyway)
    F1 and F2 no longer do AOE, F3 can still be an AOE daze around the attack if traited (it's a duelist spec I guess)
    F1~F4 no longer scales with the number of clones. Trait effects may still scale. (big clone shatters are more of a core mes thing)
    The mirage needs to land an attack to deliver the F1~F4 ambush effects and trait effects for attacks. Trait effects for boons may still be instant. (still differentiate mirage from core shatters that are instant)

    Does people who suggest these tradeoffs play mesmer even? WE DON'T want to be close to most f the classes, get these ideas out of your head.
    And it is enough that ambushes have cd i guess

    This tradeoff joke needs to apply to other classes, it seems that the tradeoff is only applying to mesmers these days and all the kitten issue is that core got nerfed heavily during their dartboard nerfs over the years.

    We really don't need to start explaining why every time someone suggests things like this ><

    @Heartpains.7312 I agree 100% that other classes need tradeoffs.
    I also 100% agree that mes doesn't want to get close to do damage. However, at least in terms of power builds we already are required to get close to our opponents to do enough damage.

    @Cardolan.9123 I actually really like the idea, could be a little more refined.

    The base range should start at 450, The trait idea to remove EM and replace it to extend to range is also good. +150 in PvP putting it at a 600 (standard leap) range, and + 50% in PvE to bring it to a 900 range. makes this competitive with IH.

    I would get rid of the "next attack" fact so that it's just an attack in and of itself, for any except F3. A daze (or stun if traited) on next attack sounds fine.

    The F1 damage should scale, I don't know what you are thinking in terms of coefficents, but I'd also be fine with a flat 2.1, and no residual damages for miss timed rolls.

    The F2 Again I dunno what you are thinking in terms of numbers. But I feel it would be to much of a nerf to simply say 1 stack of confusion. If we're going a flat number of stacks like the above that is fine too.

    The F3 I think is fine if it doesn't scale, but it needs something else built into it. Maybe a "teleport to prior location" skill chain with a 10-15 second window.

    The F4 sounds kind of awful honestly, I feel like that should be left alone as distortion. But if we're going to change it over maybe have it be the only one that scales and give distortion based on the amount of illusions. This way you maintain the skill and much like all the other effects you force your illusions into what is essentially a "cleave-able" position. Maybe have it function exactly like Illusionary Ambush, and then replace illusionary ambush as a skill to make a new one. Also I don't know what you would do with desert distortion.

    So long as these skills are instant so your main damage would have to be read much like how it is for thief, to damage I wouldn't see a problem. This also means less splash damage for people who don't avoid illusion's properly.

  • Jazz.4639Jazz.4639 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2019

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    Sadly and undoubtedly ANerf is on the hunt and mirage will get trashed next patch, core just doesn't cut it with all the nerfs that happened over the last 2 years, so mesmer will be pretty much dead for the vast majority of players.

    i just had a nightmare of anet giving shatters a casttime. like mirage has instant dodge so in anets great logic cast time on shatters would be a good trade off. would fit perfect in what they did with chrono: low effort changes with broken logic will not add any different from core identity to the spec just destroys every fluid gameplay. oh my god pls help...

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 18, 2019

    shhhhht don't give them bad ideas !
    And about the subject, I'm on the side of thoses who think elite should give different gameplay than core. (The only way to not make it a super-core IMO.)
    Back in 2013 we had way more gameplay choice than what we have since HoT and their "mesmer should shatter and only shatter orientation". :'(

  • Jazz.4639Jazz.4639 Member ✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    shhhhht don't give them bad ideas !
    And about the subject, I'm on the side of thoses who think elite should give different gameplay than core. (The only way to not make it a super-core IMO.)
    Back in 2013 we had way more gameplay choice than what we have since HoT and their "mesmer should shatter and only shatter orientation". :'(

    im afraid i didnt ;)
    i dont want a core 2.0 either dont misunderstand me, i just want that it someshow still feels like a mesmer (and in my case also allows gs shatter mes feeling). mirage in my eyes (only spoken for power ofc) fits perfect for me. clearly different from core but still a mesmer. when we look at new chrono, does it now feel more different to core than before it got destroyed? a very little bit in terms of stuff like new f1, that now needs to do chrono specific stuff to make near the dmg core f1 does. but apart from that chrono is just clunky and unfun now without even providing a new identity for the spec. its just a very heavy nerf even a destruction they just gave a different name called trade off.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭

    Errr.... this idea seems really bad... why am I seeing so many bad ideas for Mirage trade offs and Mesmer related things in general?

    In short, melee is not where a Mesmer wants to be except for a quick burst and get out again.

    Sadly, this is the kind of thing we may expect to see... 4 buttons that all do the same thing, with different names, and puts the Mirage in a dangerous spot the whole time. My own suggestions have been long standing in these forums with very little criticism from either Mesmer or non Mesmer players, hopefully the devs take a look at what I have been saying and why.

  • Yoci.2481Yoci.2481 Member ✭✭

    I want core to be good.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yoci.2481 said:
    I want core to be good.

    Core was literally trashed to nerf and then trashed more to nerf mirage, all through 50% nerfs and trait deletion on CORE :DDDDD

  • @Delofasht.4231 said:

    My own suggestions have been long standing in these forums with very little criticism from either Mesmer or non Mesmer players, hopefully the devs take a look at what I have been saying and why.

    That's exactly why devs will never listen to you, because only bad suggestions get sometimes considered. That's just the rule here. Do you need proof on that one? Or do you have means to change it?

    Btw if you don't have means to change the rule, what options do you have then?

  • @Shena Fu.5792 said:

    @Cardolan.9123 said:
    My sincere apologies for my absolutely horrible suggestion. Here is a better one just for you.

    Mesmer balance change suggestion
    power spike (from mantra of pain):
    add an unblockable effect to this skill
    add an undodgable effect to this skill
    add a stunbreak effect to this skill
    add a blindness immunity effect to this skill
    this skill now grants pulsing stability (10 stacks 10s every 1s for 5s)
    increase the skill damage coefficient of this skill to about 75.0
    increase range to 5000 in PVE, 2500 in PVP & WVW
    fix a bug where this skill is blocked due to LOS

    LMAO

    Problem:

    • Fire in the house.

    Solution:

    • Tear down the walls so fire won't have fuel to burn.

    Meanwhile, the fire continues to burn.

    Sorry about the burning fire, but I still think that the solution of tearing down the walls is cool. Who wants a house with walls huh?

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cardolan.9123 said:

    @Shena Fu.5792 said:

    @Cardolan.9123 said:
    My sincere apologies for my absolutely horrible suggestion. Here is a better one just for you.

    Mesmer balance change suggestion
    power spike (from mantra of pain):
    add an unblockable effect to this skill
    add an undodgable effect to this skill
    add a stunbreak effect to this skill
    add a blindness immunity effect to this skill
    this skill now grants pulsing stability (10 stacks 10s every 1s for 5s)
    increase the skill damage coefficient of this skill to about 75.0
    increase range to 5000 in PVE, 2500 in PVP & WVW
    fix a bug where this skill is blocked due to LOS

    LMAO

    Problem:

    • Fire in the house.

    Solution:

    • Tear down the walls so fire won't have fuel to burn.

    Meanwhile, the fire continues to burn.

    Sorry about the burning fire, but I still think that the solution of tearing down the walls is cool. Who wants a house with walls huh?

    do you even play mirage or just post random kitten for the sake of it?

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