WvW rewarding bad players

Anet PLEASE can you stop rewarding those useless players who just scourge spam in zergs, like its somehow skillful. Just stop giving them any loot if they play scourge in WvW and it might actually start forcing these people to learn their class, or to stop playing WvW once and for all. Im begging you, I hate the fact they are rewarded for being bad.

K but what are you spamming that takes that much more skill?

Also doesn't this problem fix itself since the "rewards" in WvW are nonexistent (probably not even 10% of PvE rewards)?

Can build Eternity in a month in fractals, cannot do it in 2 years in WvW - sacrifices you make for playing WvW.

Not sure where you play your WvW but you get rewards all the time in WvW.

I dont spam anything, I play classes that require some thought to play, not "hit button, move, hit button, move, hit button, move.....yeah we killed them by spamming one button"

I'm not sure how ANet would implement this idea. First, there would need to be some committee to decide what builds are acceptable and which ones aren't. Then they'd have to detect the build and/or the rotation and have additional code that changes the rewards accordingly. They'd also have to hire more customer support, to handle claims that the system didn't reward them properly (or rewarded someone else too much).

Further, it's hardly an objective decision. How does anyone distinguish the OP from those who punch all their skills on cooldown?

Finally, if a build is too overpowered compared to the rest, wouldn't the best solution to bring that prof/build back into compliance?

Not sure where you play your WvW but you get rewards all the time in WvW.

Compared to other game modes, it's not substantial. A heavy loot bag is 3s. If you got 250 heavy loot bags;that's just 7.5 gold, a amount you can get by doing fractal recs for dailies or semi-afk'ing on some pve map.

Nobody plays wvw for loot. Anything of value comes from reward tracks and you can afk those too.

Yea stacking and spamming boons requires so much more skill.

OP complaining about a class that has no escapes, mobility, stealth, blocks, stability, etc.

Play a ranger and drool out of both sides of your mouth every time you see a necro, scourge or not, which can be kited even at the play skill level of keyboard turning and mouse clicking skills.

AKA, if you hate it so much, play the hard counter.

I do hate it a lot, especially in the zerg. i dont see any skill level from it, just stand in a group and hit a key continously till you spam kill stuff. How can that be any fun to play!?

If a bunch of scourges are just freely spamming skills at your group, maybe you're the bad group?

The meta is not the players fault, they are playing what is effective and they should not be punished for it. The issue is with anet and balance team (or lack there of). Changes and things introduced in HoTs were put in without a lot of thought or testing it seems, at least not by real WvW players, and those were not even fully fixed (not even close) by the time PoF came out introducing even more issues on top of the old ones and even less thought about balance and spam skill play.

He is might not be saying it in the nicest way but he is right. The red circle of death spam is so overused. I refuse to play this braindead class in WvW.Either add massive cooldowns to the spam they do or tone it down some other fashion.

As always, the big problem with Scourges is that they were meant to operate the 900y range but extend far too many skills into the 1200y range.

That they also do a bunch of things at once that accumulate into something that was supposed to require the coordination of multiple classes to achieve is obviously another issue, but the big conservative thing that keeps the meta stale is the reach. It makes both true 1200y counters and 300y counters insufficiently effective and keeps the status quo. You can attempt to outreach or crush distance but it isn't clear cut enough, it is muddled by this oversight between the vision and how it plays.

That it rips, controls and damages at the same time may be questionable in hindsight but it wasn't unintended. The range issue was.

Other than that, I agree with the OP. I wouldn't phrase it as he did (as others have mentioned too). However, a pirate ship meta or overpowered ranged tactics favours players who just want to join a tag and farm some bags. With a bit of tin foil on, that could likely be apart of a larger direction with regard to the game and mode. The problem is that it takes the tags for granted. It encourges players to flock to tags (see a tag, do your own stuff behind it and get bags) but it makes tags quit (stale/onedimensional guild meta, difficult to execute fun tactics with and boring to play supportive/commanding classes in).

It doesn't encourage the rebirth of new tags. Instead, if there are no tags, players who flock to them rather than play on their own or hatch into tags, will leave the mode too. It becomes another "Warclaw issue" with player retention. That's why I don't see this trend of going back to a primordial vanilla soup as positive. Not only will it tear down what the communities have built up over time, but I also strongly question that the uninvested players brought in on the back of invested players will stick, leaving the community much smaller. To top it off, among the groups that would remain in such a state, the disparity between the old/new and good/bad or w/e would be greater, with more of a disconnect going forward.

@"Dechande.5690" said:Not sure where you play your WvW but you get rewards all the time in WvW.

I dont spam anything, I play classes that require some thought to play, not "hit button, move, hit button, move, hit button, move.....yeah we killed them by spamming one button"

Yes, that champbag from killed lord or that exotic container from reward tracks that drops trash (actual trash), or that meat dollies drop, man, how can one say no to wvw?Out of curiosity, what class do you play?

How about we figure out how to give bags somewhat equally to all classes. That is really the problem I think.Everyone has a role to play. There should be bags given for anyone that participates in a fight no matter if its giving boons, removing them, causing damage, or downs. Right now it is mainly rewarding the damage dealers. Since scourges have lots of skills that hit 5 or more people at a time they are able to get more bags. So what I purpose that if you are providing boons to a damage dealer you also get credit for all that they tag. So you will have a chance at a bag drop. That's my two cents and I say all that as a person that mains a scourge.

@"Excursion.9752" said:How about we figure out how to give bags somewhat equally to all classes. That is really the problem I think.Everyone has a role to play. There should be bags given for anyone that participates in a fight no matter if its giving boons, removing them, causing damage, or downs. Right now it is mainly rewarding the damage dealers. Since scourges have lots of skills that hit 5 or more people at a time they are able to get more bags. So what I purpose that if you are providing boons to a damage dealer you also get credit for all that they tag. So you will have a chance at a bag drop. That's my two cents and I say all that as a person that mains a scourge.

We may throw the word "bags" in from time to time, but in my experience that is far from a notable factor. From a class perspective: The real problem is that a stale ranged meta like this excludes too many other classes and builds from being fun to play. That problem includes classes that arguably are in the meta. Take the Firebrand for example, if a squad gets an overwhelming amount of ranged classes it doesn't feel like you are contributing in a meaningful way, even though you are on a coveted class that people in general consider important. The problem is that the class is inherently a melee class, you don't play it to its full potential and it feels like you are just there to babysit players who anonymously farm bags for their own enjoyment. In that, it is not that you can't get bags yourself, but that you don't feel impactful. Players who tag up also tend to play that class, so they are subject to that class perspective.

Then you can add in the organisation perspective, that if people join your squad but don't actually follow you or interact with you will eventually realize that you are not having fun and that others have their fun at your expense. Some players are more resillient than others with that realization of charity, some groups are better than others at staving away that conclusion by being more social and trying other routes out of the rut. However, those are communities going against the grain. That is possible, but not normative so most communities won't. Incidentally, when people transfer these days, what do you think they transfer to/for? Content produced against the grain. Content in spite of the developers, not thanks to. That's why we have so much transfers and why the developers make money out of undermining and cheapening the mode. That works until it implodes, that milking. Then we're back to the primordial soup discussion.

@Dechande.5690 said:Anet PLEASE can you stop rewarding those useless players who just scourge spam in zergs, like its somehow skillful. Just stop giving them any loot if they play scourge in WvW and it might actually start forcing these people to learn their class, or to stop playing WvW once and for all. Im begging you, I hate the fact they are rewarded for being bad.

not everyone is calm and collected when playing zerg fights. :)

Best counter to condi builds is a heal scrapper, even despite the -300 vitality.

@Dechande.5690 said:Just stop giving them any loot if they play scourge in WvW and it might actually start forcing these people to learn their class, or to stop playing WvW once and for all.

I doubt Arenanet is as interested in gatekeeping as you seem to be.

Never thought I'll see the day where people talk about skill when it comes to blob vs blob combat.

It just so happens when it comes to army vs army warfare in wvw, it boils down to which side has more numbers, with a better commander, and which side has more brainless zergling bodies which will do what they are told.

Do yu seriously think that this is supposed to be fair play between 1 skilled person vs an entire army of coordinated brainless zombies?

There is nothing to big brain about blob vs blob combat, if yu manage to throw out a couple of skills which land, yur other 30 or so buddies also manage to land their skills which instantly drops the poor feller who got caught.

@Yasai.3549 said:Never thought I'll see the day where people talk about skill when it comes to blob vs blob combat.

It just so happens when it comes to army vs army warfare in wvw, it boils down to which side has more numbers, with a better commander, and which side has more brainless zergling bodies which will do what they are told.

Do yu seriously think that this is supposed to be fair play between 1 skilled person vs an entire army of coordinated brainless zombies?

There is nothing to big brain about blob vs blob combat, if yu manage to throw out a couple of skills which land, yur other 30 or so buddies also manage to land their skills which instantly drops the poor feller who got caught.

It is pretty brainless but you are definitely oversimplifying it. I don't know if skill is exactly the best word to use, but it is not quite as some people seem to think.

I guarantee a well comped group of 15 players could wipe a mindless group with double their numbers (a group of pugs for example).It only really boils down to numbers when there are two equally 'skilled' (or well comped) groups facing off. When you have to meta blobs fighting each other numbers make a much larger impact on the outcome of the fight.

I played WvW only for the rewards, except they never came in bags.

To be honest it's the whole game, not just wvw. Autostunbreaks that reward your misplays with boons, downstate, mounts that give you immunity in competitive areas, autoinvuln incase you just want to afk half the fight like a potato, they abandoned the combosystem, i could go on for a while. I think Anet has made it pretty clear, that if you are not someone in your late forties, clicking skills and rocking catapults infront of indestructable walls, this game is not aimed at you.

@Dechande.5690 said:Anet PLEASE can you stop rewarding those useless players who just scourge spam in zergs, like its somehow skillful. Just stop giving them any loot if they play scourge in WvW and it might actually start forcing these people to learn their class, or to stop playing WvW once and for all. Im begging you, I hate the fact they are rewarded for being bad.

So.., you cant beat players that just spam? and you want to punish them?

The idea of WvW is team play, and your team is supposed to work to win. It's competitive playstyle. You use any mechanic, build, or device on your character to make that happen. And i'm sorry to say....reworking skills to BUFF those skills that players refuse to use, does not help. If a skill isn't being used, it's not about BUFFING that skill...It's about NERFING the skills that are considered OVER POWERED. I look at the reworks of skills when patch days come, and it's no longer about nerfing, it's about buffing skills that nobody uses because they don't pump out either enough DPS, Condi, or give enough BUFFS. But hell, if your build makes you overpowered, and lets you down an enemy in two seconds with three rapids shots, Go For It! If a scourge can pump out more damage than you can possibly take, whose fault is that? Anet's? The player that created a combo that anet didn't even think of that all the sudden made the profession so overpowered it's not laughable to even think of fighting against that profession in meaningful WvW. For the last 7 months is, "I want firebrands, I want scourges...I want firebrands, I want scourges", Day in, Day out, hour after hour after hour. If an anet employee went into the Discord of a Guild, and you ask, "What do you need..." and the commanders only response is "Firebrand, scourge"....for seven damn months.....you THINK you'd figure out....there is a problem with all the rest of professions which are neither solicited to join the squad, or not wanted. Still. In guildwars 1, you had what? Thousand skill combinations? And some of those combo's made you so overpowered you might as well be god. The same thing occurs in Guildwars 2....Except the combination is still in the thousands, but it takes into account runes, stats, sigils, Buffs, AND skills. Which can create a Godmode product because there's no real way to test out every single combination to make sure that a Godmode product isn't created. So to the scourges...that I die a lot to by the way....keep killing me. It's not your fault that your either so good, or your combination of Skills, weapons, sigil, and runes made you Godmode. That's anet's fault.