Potential Future Balance Changes — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes

edited August 28, 2019 in Professions

Greetings fellow Tyrians,

We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

  • Would your gameplay change as a result?
  • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
  • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
  • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
  • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

Engineer

  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

Guardian

  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

Necromancer

  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
  • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

Revenant

  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

Sincerely,
GW2 Systems Team

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Comments

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    Please apply the guardian changes to wvw ONLY, pve does NOT need those nerfs, firebrand support is barely a usable profession in there, punting because of wvw isn't healthy for the gamemode, and the class need every bit it can do to stand up to the other supports, druids will be forever the offensive buff bots, but let guardians have their boon coverage. In matter of fact, i think you should revert some of the cooldown nerfs to the tomes that were applied to them last few patches because i'm sure it was done because of WvW. So please, take great consideration to not needlessy hurt the class there.

  • mbalk.6731mbalk.6731 Member ✭✭

    Members of the wave clan approve of these changes. none of them are bad. more reveal tools good. too bad a lot of NA guilds have already quit. wave king out

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    Engineer: Great changes across the board, Scrapper needs to be toned down in WvW and losing access to Chemical Field's easy poison is fine.

    Guardian: I wouldn't remove Aegis on either F3 skill. Good F2 change. Sanctuary change won't do anything, so might as well.

    Mesmer: I don't think you need to change Illusion of Life, however if you do I wouldn't increase its CD a bit if the duration goes down. Good Mantra changes, amazing Chaos Storm change. Chaotic Interruption change seems neat, it might come in too weak, but easily adjustable if so.

    Necromancer: Good changes, needs to be toned down in WvW. Not sure if the Barrier needs to be nerfed in PvP, maybe 20% is a bit more fair?

    Ranger: Good change.

    Revenant: Hammer change is good. 600 Radius on Gaze of Darkness ' reveal is a bit too big, I'm not sure if it needs to be increased.

    Warrior: Warhorn is probably okay right now, I'm not sure it needs to be touched, but the revamp doesn't seem too strong. Sight Beyond Sight going up to 600 range is a good change, unlike Gaze of Darkness.

    Overall the changes seem to be very orientated to WvW, the meta would be much healthier with these changes.
    Detection Pulse will most likely overshadow Sight Beyond Sight and Gaze of Darkness still.

    Not much will change in PvP off these changes, but condi Mirage/Mesmer may be pushed out completely. Pretty good changes though, you hit the skills/traits that needed to be hit.

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  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭

    These changes seem nice. Toning down power creep in certain aspects are good to see. The engineer part seems really nice. The poison wasn't really useful at all except toning down some healing but the dmg was really meh.
    The WH changes in warrior seem good. I like the boon idea instead of the mega cleanse. Cleanse is already heavily covered by FBs so WH warriors aren't that useful atm in zergs.
    Is there a chance that some changes come to improve the WvW build comp? Like better WvW druid healer to make them viable in zergs or give necros better mobility to improve roaming?

    Slightly offtopic:
    Is there ANY chance that split blade on ranger gets the higher dmg modifier for PvE? It's NOT WvW related but it really opens up the weapon choices regarding dmg.

    Are there any current plans on overhauling minions, pets and professions that haven't been heavily reworked so far? Like ranger, ele or necro?

    Otherwise nice changes so far but I hope that's not all.

  • Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭

    From a monthly AT winner in pvp
    Illusion of life nerf is good
    Mantras need heavier nerfs
    Please PLEASE PLEASE DON'T TOUCH CHAOS STORM
    Chaotic Interruption sound WAY TOO STRONG, make it 3 seconds or so or even less. That's still massive if u consider the rupt chain from diversion + mantra + pistol

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    This is probably the first time I like the full "patch notes". All changes are hitting the main points of this stale meta.

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  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Please tell me this is meant to be WvW/PvP-only. The attack already appears to respect line of sight (in most cases?) in PvE so I'd consider that part a bugfix, but the 360° instant damage is invaluable for tagging mobs, drawing aggro from idle open world creatures and keeping up the damage while occupied with other actions (unlike human opponents most AI mobs don't exactly walk behind you reactively but like to dash/teleport at random).

    Either way this absolutely must not go through for underwater! Mesmer already feels ATROCIOUS since the rework due to Feigned Surge's inconsistent behaviour, Siren's Call's unreliable bouncing and the forced leap on Imminent Voyage leaving Mantra of Pain as pretty much the only reliable ranged damage option while waiting for other skills to come off cooldown.

    I can see why you want to reign in Mantra of Distraction but still fundamentally think adding a facing requirement when the skill cannot forcibly change your character's facing itself will just feel "wrong". Assuming this change is intended to increase counterplay in competitive modes I would suggest either making it apply a buff+animation to stun the target(s) after a short delay (thus allowing a short window to cancel your cast and not suffer on-interrupt effects) or to simply accept its position as a dedicated "un-counterable counter" by reducing the target count and/or increasing its cooldown in competitive modes to reflect the considerable power such capability represents.

    In addition the facing requirement would reduce cohesion with the other mesmer mantra skills and even the traited heal all maintaining full effectiveness regardless of your character's facing.

  • ollbirtan.2915ollbirtan.2915 Member ✭✭✭

    Guardian

    Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires. <--- Useless skill gets a useless upgrade? Don't care
    Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE. <--- This is fair
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis. <--- This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a class
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation. <--- This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a class

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? <--- Yes, would be the last nail in the WvW coffin for me.
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? <--- The proposed "changes" give a feeling that whoever came up with them never played WvW and are just random. Balance issue exists in WvW, but it's not the reason why the players are abandoning the game mode. It's the lack of any new content and the "promise" of alliances that has yet to come after over a year.
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?<--- No
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes? <---- Already answered/
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes? <--- Just like sPvP - fewer players and in the end - a dead game mode. GJ
  • Chaba.5410Chaba.5410 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Vova.2640 said:

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. - I suggest leaving the gyro as it is and nerf Purity of Purpose trait instead. And Also take a look at antitoxin rune. Too many synergies there.

    Disagree. Nerfing the number of pulses, possibly looking at the rune is the best solution. Nerfing Purity of Purpose would just remove Scrapper entirely since it would have no differentiating purpose from other classes and skills that cleanse conditions.

  • Grimjack.8130Grimjack.8130 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Flandre.2870 said:
    Chaotic Interruption sound WAY TOO STRONG, make it 3 seconds or so or even less. That's still massive if u consider the rupt chain from diversion + mantra + pistol

    Just stow. :) That trait doesn't seem too strong if you play around it? It's rupts, not dazes/stuns.

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  • Novaura.1079Novaura.1079 Member
    edited August 30, 2019

    These changes are a great start.

    The meta has been a bit toxic because of lack of meaningful reveal skills. Bringing scrapper reveal back is a nice change.

    Scourge and Firebrand currently dominate the meta and lowering the scourge damage is also a nice change, I still think it needs more nerfs in WvW for damage with it it being even more support orientated and less damage.

    Firebrand, if it wasn't the be all end all support profession we could see some more diversity. Limiting some of its boons to other classes and not firebrand could be a starting place.

    For Chronomancer, I really think you should rework support wells. They should pulse AOE around you like the new Scrapper gyros and be more support themed such as giving our pulsing barrier (right now scourge gives out the best barriers). Really, Support Chrono wells need looked at, they are extremely underwhelming.

  • Gamander.7269Gamander.7269 Member ✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    I think I might be the only player who plays heal scourge in WvW but this change would probably force me to go DPS instead.
    For warrior, is the warhorn condi cleanse really so good and popular that it needs a nerf?

  • Vova.2640Vova.2640 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Vova.2640 said:

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. - I suggest leaving the gyro as it is and nerf Purity of Purpose trait instead. And Also take a look at antitoxin rune. Too many synergies there.

    Disagree. Nerfing the number of pulses, possibly looking at the rune is the best solution. Nerfing Purity of Purpose would just remove Scrapper entirely since it would have no differentiating purpose from other classes and skills that cleanse conditions.

    See the problem is, the way scrapper is right now, no other support class besides firebrand, who is being used thanks to all the stab and aegis it provide, is viable.
    Scrapper is killing support diversity (along with firebrands yes).
    I would be down if another class gave this many boons and heals like scrapper, while leaving scrapper as it is.
    I would also be down if another class gave this much stability and/or aegis like firebrand and firebrands left as they are.

    But the problem is there isn't anything else. Only other class that has been used as support was tempest, and tempest has both mediocre healing and not nearly as many boons as scrapper + no way to give stab not aegis to allies. Makes it an inferior choice even to scrapper.

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    No resistance on warrior warhorn please. Overpowered boons that makes people immune to effects such as stability & resistance (even aegis and barriers to a certain extend too) needs to be cut down, not increased, especially when they can be given to the whole team instead of just one person. Otherwise it's only fair that you give every single class the ability to provide these boons to a whole team, which will result in huge powercreep.

    of course, when stab & resistance gets cut down, the amount of condi and cc spams also need to be looked at

  • UNOwen.7132UNOwen.7132 Member ✭✭✭

    Given that there are several changes to reveal skills making them more potent, is there any chance that the already underperforming thief builds in WvW could get some small buffs? In particular Id like to see the undoing of the Swipe change that simply made Daredevil unviable, and possibly a buff to double tap/Three Round Burst given that currently the correct way to play Rifle is spamming Skirmishers shot because it does more damage, and never kneeling because you get nothing from it. Plus, some more permanent solution to the permastealth cheese than hoping that there is a sentry nearby. Maybe a hard cap on stealth duration with a penalty if that cap is reached?

  • I like many of these changes, especially to rev, warrior and mesmer. I don't think the nerf to the pulses of Purge Gyro is necessary, it's already only meh as it is, even with the better toolbelt skill of Detection Pulse.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭

    Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Do what you did with tome of resolve, chapter 2, and split the game modes with tome of courage. The tome of courage is a big nerf to firebrand in pve especially fractal cms. Since Aegis is completely removed, It means it also grants Zero healing. Since firebrand heals off of aegis your potentially killing its purpose. If you adjust it in pvp, and wvw its fine so that it balances vs other classes. But as for raids, pvp, its another adjustment people have to take on.

  • TexZero.7910TexZero.7910 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The warrior changes are questionable at best.
    Especially giving warhorn resistance, barrier and damage amplification. I can understand wanting to give warhorn more play but you've overdone it if you ship it with all of those things. The extra blast is nice and probably a good starting point. I'd lean less into giving it more boons and if you're thinking about having a damage amp at all you need to remember what happened the to the last damage amp you had trouble with in Glyph of Empowerment. 25% is just too high by any reasonable metric, 10% was too high for said utility skill....I don't think a weapon skill should outshine it.

  • blambidy.3216blambidy.3216 Member ✭✭✭

    If anything with mesmer you need to rework mirages confusion. I know your trying to nerf mirage, but the only way is to nerf confusion or Riddle of Sand, and nerf confusions movement damage.

  • I can only really comment on the mesmer changes as that's all I play in WvW, so here goes:

    • Illusion of Life changes seem a bit heavy handed, especially since most of the benefits are offset by the rather long cast time, stuff is usually dead before the cast finishes unless I pre-empt it, even traited with recharge reduction and superspeed it's still not a massively gamechanging ability.
    • I've never had a mantra not respect line of sight before, so that sounds like a bugfix which is fine. Requiring to be facing your target wouldn't really change much except making them more annoying to use. (Which could be the intended effect?) Must admit, it's quite satisfying to dissuade someone chasing you with a Power Spike on their face while you're running off, so not being able to do that anymore would be sad.
    • Chaos Storm change would serve little purpose now that Chaotic Interruption has been changed, and it should be less problematic.
    • Chaotic Interruption change seems nice, it could be a gamechanger trait if you score that last interrupt and it recharges an escape skill or takes a vital skill off cooldown to make a saving grace strike, perhaps too much so.

    Thanks for communicating proposed changes in advance to gather feedback, that's a step in the right direction!

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  • Flandre.2870Flandre.2870 Member ✭✭✭

    In PvP Staff thief and holosmith need adjusting. Staff thies has too much evade,sustain options since daredevil trait and it's almost impossible to +1 it, holo too much all around but mostly damage and stability uptime

  • These Necro changes will confirm the wvw mode is being killed. May be time to find anything else to do. Obviously any continued time in GW2 is going to be miserable and physically painful.

  • cryorion.9532cryorion.9532 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    It is very nice to see some communication especially about balance update! :)
    What if fury/resistance boons were baseline for warhorn (non-traited, for 5 people) and Quick Breathing would increase target cap to 10 in addition to adrenaline for each affected ally (as it is now)? This would encourage warhorn usage (both in and out of combat) also outside of WvW and in solo/small scale fights.
    Sight Beyond Sight is defintely welcomed change to deal with those pesky enemy thieves...

  • redwing.9580redwing.9580 Member ✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Thundabolt.8541 said:
    I don't think Engineer deserves any more nerfs. That's really all I have to say.

    EDIT: Okay, here's why I believe Engineer shouldn't be touched.

    I haven't seen half as many Scrapper players as I did ever since the nerf of all the barrier they got. I'd like to know where the decision came from to give them further nerfs.

    The nerf to purge gyro is unreasonable imo. Every class deserves a decent condition cleanse.

    while I agree the nerf is not needed, engi has a ton of condi cleanse outside of the gyro

  • reapex.8546reapex.8546 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Elementalist, The forgotten class of Gw2

    It's in a good place right now imo. Any further changes may wind up in nerfs.

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