Potential Future Balance Changes - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes

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    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
      Further nerfs to Scourge will only make it more annoying to play, it already is quite uninteresting spec to run, that I only play because our 15-20 man guild group requires it.

    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
      Yes it will improve the state of the game.

    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
      Yes.

    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
      They are not touching more stuff that is broken right now in WvW, there are so many builds and skills that are overpowered it would take too long to list them all. Another issue is that for some classes like mesmer and necromancer it is only taking stuff away without any compensation to less used skills or traits.

    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?
      Changes to group compositions, warriors being even more OP, mesmers seeing even less play, less close to 10k long range shot hits from 1500 range, other than that current state of balance will remain almost the same.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Not sure how I missed this thread, but thank you!

    I, personally, feel that it would be great if the team focused more on global changes, as opposed to individual skill changes. I say that because as I quickly read through the notes nothing I noticed really tackles the real issues inside pvp or wvw modes. Example, you can change damage on those Necromancer skills, but my full trailblazer Necromancer can still get crushed in a matter of seconds... Nothing really changes that scenario, and those types of issues are really frustrating to players. It also contributes to the list of reasons why newer players don’t want to participate in pvp modes either.

    Another example, let’s say you change the damage on longbow and a players is running around wvw. While they are pewpewing away, then low and behold a Mesmer appears on top of your character from stealth and spams a kitten ton of damage by the time you can react or even locate the actual player out of the multiple player copies... So what did the longbow change actually do? Nothing.

    Players would really appreciate the real problems inside of spvp and wvw being looked at and addressed. That’s something we’ve been hoping on for a really long time now...

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/28024/increasing-ttk-undoing-old-split-changes-and-eliminating-skill-splitting

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/44028/ideas-to-tone-down-offensive-aoes

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/62555/putting-fun-back-into-designs-and-balancing

    Maybe let’s look at how to make support roles better and more fun to play?

    Perhaps the team can look at making a more tasteful stealth system?

    I know the team wanted to create clear and understandable visuals for the game, so was something like this ever on the table? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/34750/inspirational-mesmer-illusion-appearance-change-idea and https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/67283/i-would-like-to-discuss-visual-tells-for-wvw

    The balance team ever consider reevaluating the condi system to more of a DoT skill design, where toughness plays a role in defenses? https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/29999/let-s-also-fix-up-the-condi-system-before-we-neuter-professions-more#latest

    Anyone in the meetings ever suggest to look at underperforming weapons and skills and boost those instead? Would certainly improve build variety.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyFurY.6057 said:
    Where is the thief? In stealth?

    Thief gets changes indirectly when reveal skills get changes. Detection pulse was the main reliable AoE reveal before it was removed, I'm glad that the devs realise that was a mistake, and buffing the range of the reveal on sight beyond sight and gaze of darkness makes them a lot more reliable, so as long as they're all still able to be dodged if the thief preempts the skill then these are good changes.

    I'm not convinced ranger longbow auto needs a damage nerf still, a lot of the issue was the interaction with sic em, damage modifiers from traits and one wolf pack. I guess this makes the burst more linked to cooldowns tho, which is a good idea overall.

    Beyond that, I can't comment too much, as thief is the only class I play. Something I would like to see as an overall trend is moving back towards the use of combo fields and finishers again, or at least making these things worth using again. We have a lot of cool stuff like combo fields that encourages team play but is not being used because tactics that used to require team coordination are overshadowed by newer content that only requires one guy to do the same job. Why blast water/fire fields on ele/engi when you have a firebrand churning out boons with no coordination needed? If you make these things relevant again, eliminate the redundancy and make the most of the fantastic work you've already done, WvW can see a drastic improvement without a huge amount of dev time. Everybody wins.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    We need more of these threads. This is very good to see and a high frequency of threads like these by Anet, along with them working with proven, experienced members of their competitive/endgame-modes will encourage people to stay and continue playing.

    ^ this. Nice work Irenio, keep it up dude :)

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • coro.3176coro.3176 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    The real problem isn't Purge Gyro cleansing 5 conditions. It's Superior Rune of the Antitoxin DOUBLING basically all cleanse Scrapper puts out. That's a little much for a 6th rune bonus, don't you think?

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    If you almost double the cooldown of Sneak Gyro to (presumably) curb the amount of stealth pushes in large scale, you also really hurt its viability in smallscale / roaming fights. It's a survival tool that roaming Scrapper really needs to be up on demand both for engaging and disengaging.

    Also, please consider how recent changes have completely gutted any non-power Scrapper spec. I used to like playing condition engineer, and I hardly play the game any more because no builds are viable for it... Power is just always better..

  • NotoriousNaru.1705NotoriousNaru.1705 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • crazyhusky.2985crazyhusky.2985 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    Still waiting on that Dragonhunter rebalance and fixes .
    We are still waiting for a much needed dodge on Wings of Resolve, or a decent improvements to longbow.

    Within the last year, All the other 8 HoT specs have had BIG some change or mechanic rework, yet 3 years have passed and Dragonhunter has remained the same.

    All guardians see is stuff for Firebrand these days. The odd tweak the base guardian. The Dragonhunter traits have barely been touched, only being tweaked slightly when a global change happens because if they didnt then it'll probely mess with the code of the game.

    Maybe you could give DragonHunter chained Virtues attacks that chain together. so the virtues are 3 skill combo attack instead, to make it much more different from both firebrand and Base guardian.
    Spear of Justice > Hunter's Verdict > F1 3rd skill
    Wings of Resolve > F2 2nd skill > F2 3rd skill
    Shield of Courage > F3 2nd skill > F3 3rd skill

    It's something... you have to do something with Dragonhunter.

  • @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tinnel.4369 said:
    Is this post really from August 21st, edited August 28th, with the first comments on it today?

    I don't really come to this part of the forums, but it seems a proposed round of balancing 9 days ago would have hit my radar and garnered attention from the community before today.

    Thread was posted on August 21st, edited and then they made it visible later.


    On the changes:

    Sounds reasonable to me. Loving that Ranger Longbow 1 nerf. Nerf to FB is great too. People talk about hating powercreep, but the defense creep is insane too and part of the reason why powercreep got so bad to counter it. They keep escalating each other and I firmly believe this is a good step in the right direction. Less barrier on Scourge also plays into that. Lowering survivability. I don't think SS needs to be nerfed at all because 1. other stuff "enables" the spec to be that strong 2. it's atrocious to play without it

    Bite me.

  • Balthzar.3807Balthzar.3807 Member ✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    I have included comments in bold next to the proposed changes that I am concerned with

    Engineer

    Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW. Please for the love of God do this to many have become one tactic squads
    Guardian

    Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE. condi cleanse is meaningless when scrappers can convert all of them to boons
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis. do we really need more retal? I get hit with enough of it for a lifetime every time I use a skill in a zerg fight
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    Necromancer

    Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. honestly doesn't matter scrappers convert all condi to boons now anyway, its about strips not corrupts damage reduction would be welcomed
    Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. honestly doesn't matter scrappers convert all condi to boons now anyway, its about strips not corrupts damage reduction would be welcomed
    Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP. yes please
    Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW. yes please
    Ranger

    Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only. 1yes please
    Revenant

    Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.** for the love of GoD yes please**
    Warrior

    Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor. yes please
    Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.for the love of GOD yes please
    Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    I think it would change my game play slightly but not much.

    I like quite a few but as I said I commented on only the ones that I am familiar with that being said anything to reduce the barrier and damage of scourges will encourage a change to the meta and a more balanced fight and team comp. Honestly I don't play scourge because its very one dimensional and boring as I said I find it that way some don't. More reveals are so needed it gets boring blindsiding or being blindsided in most larger fights. increasing the cooldown for the scrapper means other tactics will have to also be employed. I would also suggest reduction in the time stealthed, with all of the field blasting going on we are getting up to 12 to 14 seconds very easily.

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Thief is the core root cause of the Toxicity in the game and and being the worst offender of Toxic Profession amongst all Professions in the game, so why Thief Profession exempt from the lists?

    Why Elementalist being a gradual Toxic profession exempt from the list?

    Shouldn't changes include all Professions alike without Favoritism?

    ((The sole Profession who is responsible for Guild Wars 2 competitiveness non-existence is Thief Profession. Without Thief Profession complete removal; no changes will restore WvW and PvP scenery))

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • the two professions which need the most love (thieves - removing damage out of stealth. ele - needs buffs pretty much in EVERY regard) are not even on your list. This is just hilarious.

  • Caysadia.7405Caysadia.7405 Member ✭✭✭

    Gonna be yoinking the other guys format for my feedback.

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.
      These changes ultimately do nothing to scrappers oppressive role of completely invalidating conditions. The readdition of reveal is a very good change, and should help curb some of the 40v40 stealth dancing that has been going on lately. The sneak gyro nerf seems a little too much, really hurting its use outside of zerg play, and inside zerg play the better groups could quickswap to bomb kit and blast smokes. Maybe 60 seconds instead of 75 seconds. Ultimately to see any real change in scrappers role/gameplay antitoxin needs a change to make it more engaging and less passive. Something like building clears to get a significant clear. These changes would improve the current state of scrapper, but is a little to light handed for a spec that is able to invalidate half of the damage/cc effects in the game.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
      These changes do pretty much nothing to guardians current gameplay. The nerf to cleansing does little so long as scrapper and antitoxin exist, and the removal of aegis on courage chapter 2 is somewhat irrelevant as your already extremely tanky without ever using it, and usually want to save pages for more important chapters. These changes overall do a net nothing to the mode in my opinion. In my opinion the problem with firebrand is it just simply does too much, while also having the single best mechanic for avoiding damage in the game of aegis. Keep the things unique to it like its aegis applications and stab uptime, but the copious amounts of healing, instant rez potential, and access to nearly every important boon for a zerg such as resistance, should be looked at. As a side note if more significant condi nerfs are applied condi firebrand may need a nerf, it's slowly been building up power behind the scenes and the only thing keeping it in check right now is the burning----->aegis conversion scrapper provides.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
      Im not as informed with mesmer to make glaring suggestions, but outside of chaotic interruption changes these seem to be more annoying than impactful. Illusion of Life really needs a shorter/no invulnerability window to make it worse, increasing the cd and reducing its duration doesn't do much for its overwhelming power, especially when you can barrier the target to prevent them from going into downstate. The CI and chaos storm changes are much needed and go a long way to making mirage less opressive in pvp/wvw.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.
      This is another set of changes that do pretty much nothing to how scourge is currently played in zergs. You still have the ability to bypass the 5 target cap golden rule through sand savant, and while the nerf to devouring darkness was much needed it doesn't hit the glaring problems scourge has in the mode. Sand savant NEEDS a nerf, it has existed in its current form for way too long. Reworking it to only apply barrier and other effects on the big shade, removing the melee shade, anything to curb its absolute dominant power and its ability to halt a large majority of melee pushes. That and curbing the ridiculous amount of garbage conditions scourge can output would go a long way to shifting the meta.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.
      A simple change, but a good one. I'd still like to see nerfs to swoop and rangers ability to run away/chase literally anything.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
      CoR nerfs are always welcome. We may see more groups pushing in deeper with revs, as there's no inherent advantage to bombing from its maximum range with this change, and the ability to see the skill now is a much needed change.

    >

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.
      Warhorn and reveal buff is nice. Charge seems like a skill that can get out of hand extremely fast, especially with the ability to convert it to 10 targets with quick breathing. Things like 25% extra damage on melee push CoRs, but its nice to see buffs to one of the classic warrior playstyles. Id honestly really like to see more changes to the tactics traitline, as all these changes to make warrior more supportive are still missing. Bubble seems a little too powerful right now, and it looks like we're in that inflationary period of bubble being super oppressive. Most of this is due to how hard it is to corrupt a bubble thanks to the auto stab in defense, which is extremely powerful in its own right.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Overall no matter what changes are decided to be made, I really hope Anet gets them out as fast as possible. WvW is in an extremely bad state right now and it may already be too late for the mode. This is a good step in the right direction, but it will all be for nothing if none of the feedback is taken into account and the patch takes months to arrive. I guess we'll see what happens in the weeks to come. And of course as always, buff shattered aegis.

  • @reapex.8546 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Elementalist, The forgotten class of Gw2

    It's in a good place right now imo. Any further changes may wind up in nerfs.

    a good place? Really? Because being outdone everywhere, high risk no reward was the goal for elementalist?

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Thief is the core root cause of the Toxicity in the game and amongst all professions combined, so why is Thief Profession exempt from the list?

    I was wondering when you'd pop up. Like I said earlier, thief gets indirect changes when reveal skills are changed, the proposed reveal changes are good, healthy changes, the lack of changes in this list specifically to thief does not imply there won't be any come the patch, and thief is also not part of the WvW group meta these days which is probably why it's not had much attention. We have a Dev asking for WvW specific feedback, don't waste that rare opportunity with your usual toxic thief hating agenda and give the guy some actually useful feedback, if not for my sake then for your own.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Elementalist, The forgotten class of Gw2

    It's in a good place right now imo. Any further changes may wind up in nerfs.

    a good place? Really? Because being outdone everywhere, high risk no reward was the goal for elementalist?

    I don't think it's an exhaustive list. They should have mentioned both classes on there, even if it only was a note that they're still thinking of something though in my opinion.

    Or maybe the post wasn't 100% ready, considering the last edit was 2 days ago and was made visible today.

    Bite me.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    Thief is fine, give ur toxicity a rest lol

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @YtseJam.9784 said:
    I would like to hear your plans about fixing Chrono. If you look at all the questions and feedback chronos are leaving in the Mesmer forums for the last month and a half, you'll see that the last balance update that added the 1 Illusion requirement makes the class unplayable in all aspects of the game.

    Working as intended, just like elusive mind. If you don't like it, you can always quite playing or spending $$$ like some of the rest of us.
    . . . . . . or just deal with it.
    I could never have the faith, care, nor hope anymore to write as much as @Pyroatheist.9031 just did.

    Einstein: “Insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.”

    However, on a positive note, in the past I would have appreciate the System team's decision to post such changes and look for feedback.

    My Consensus: For the most part like what was written, don't like what was not written.

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    Necromancer

    Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. Fine
    Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. Fine
    Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP. Strongly disagree
    Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW. Strongly disagree

    What you should try to do when balancing scourge is to tone down it's AoE oppressive presence with condition and corrupts, not the sustain. Scourge since it has no shroud already need barrier to survive and it is already so easy to make it explode that if you remove barrier not only you are cancelling his only source of survivability but you are also removing the support part of the elite spec. My advice would be to start thinking about how to keep intact the aspect of support scourge, while toning down the oppressive condi/corrupt part. Keep in mind that this changes to scepter also affect core condi necro, which is definetely not overtuned, so i would see the nerf on scepter skills only if you pick scourge, not if you stay as core necro.

    (Answer to your questions are related to the changes for necromancer)
    -Would your gameplay change as a result?
    Yes, nerfing barrier is not the way to go with scourge. It kills its only sustain and allies support option.
    -Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    A minor improve only the ones corcerning feast of corruption and devouring darkness but again only for scourge not for core necro(a split is needed here).
    -Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    Honestly no, except for the scepter ones(and only for scourge).
    -What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    Nerfing barrier is not the way to go with scourge. It kills its only sustain and allies support option.
    -What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?
    Scourge would have less surivability which is already low enough.

  • Kahrgan.7401Kahrgan.7401 Member ✭✭✭

    Please stop buffing every class every patch.. You need to start nerfing the OP ones... (mirage condi, holo, medi guard, to name a few)

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    Thief is fine, give ur toxicity a rest lol

    Not sure if you meant to respond to me? Hahaha xD

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    Thief is fine, give ur toxicity a rest lol

    Not sure if you meant to respond to me? Hahaha xD

    Lol no sry my man, was meant for burny lol

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    Thief is fine, give ur toxicity a rest lol

    Not sure if you meant to respond to me? Hahaha xD

    Lol no sry my man, was meant for burny lol

    I figured as much haha, not a problem ^^

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Brujeria.7536Brujeria.7536 Member ✭✭✭

    Ranger changes are in the right direction, long ranged skills should never do more damage than mid or close range skills especially if they are so easy to execute.
    Rev Changes are in the wrong direction, the skill should be a projectile with a much slower flight time, allowing counterplay, also the hammer AA is way overtuned. The better telegraph is badly needed and long overdue.
    I dont like Scourge changes, the class is already useless besides zergs as it is.
    I dont like Warrior changes - the last thing warriors need is another layer of defense with barrier. The increased damage for 2 attacks also is horrible - it powercreeps certain builds for the warrior and is pretty useless for allies because you need to time it right - not many classes have "big single hit" abilities to benefit from this, also timing is very hard, i think this would be a very negative change.
    I like that you reduce some condi cleanses all around.
    Stealth detection is also very nice and should be added to more skills- stealth lacks any form of counterplay beside such skills.

    Overall the changes are 50 / 50 in terms of game health and fun, they further shoehorn some professions into specific playstyles which is bad, but they also nerf some big offenders in terms of overall balance (revenant and ranger)

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    hi ben, cheers for sharing this with us. appreciate it.

    loss of chemical field is acceptable but loss of weakness uptime would hurt. poison is really nice for disrupting resses.
    would be nice if sanctuary didn't disappear at all. also the radius is so small its impossible to actually use outside of some weird pvp build.
    please don't remove anymore aegis. it doesn't really make any difference in wvw zergs, but in small scale and pvp/ pve it does.
    illusion of life isn't over performing.
    awesome chaos field change.
    scourge barrier reduction is great.
    ranger longbow auto reduction is great but fresh reinforcement is still doubling might, so that's not so cool.
    warrior warhorn buff looks sweet but also kinda funny, I mean its a warhorn and its getting buffed to insane levels.

    overall good changes I guess. kinda 50/ 50.

    edit
    oh yeah.. please buff shattered aegis B) B) B) B)

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @VAHNeunzehnsechundsiebzig.3618 said:

    @reapex.8546 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:
    Elementalist, The forgotten class of Gw2

    It's in a good place right now imo. Any further changes may wind up in nerfs.

    a good place? Really? Because being outdone everywhere, high risk no reward was the goal for elementalist?

    Ele does need some love, although I do feel that part of the problem is that it's main contributions are better done by other newer specs. See what I wrote concerning combo fields above. If stuff starts to get toned back down to reasonable levels, you might well start to see ele used again in both healing and dps roles, especially after the nerf to CoR.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    are you ok???

    Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.

    Maybe learn to read.

  • Swagger.1459Swagger.1459 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Forgot to add this in my last post...

    The other night in wvw my buddy hit another player for a 25k malicious backstab, so when I look at the types of balance changes being made I scratch my head. Makes me think why would high damage not be addressed across the board? 25k malicious backstab, but I’m fiddling with my weak Driud staff to build up astral force while getting eaten alive. 25k malicious backstab, but the recent update (let me check the wording) necros cant get healed in shroud... It’s really confusing all around

  • ImperialWL.7138ImperialWL.7138 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    Purely from a WvW perspective:

    Necro:
    Change the trait "Sand Savant", so that it either increases the aoe size or increases number of targets, but not both. Reducing number of boons corrupted by sceptre 3 is good but not enough of an impact on its own.
    Personally I don't see any need to reduce barrier numbers of Sand Cascade and Sand Flare. What you could do instead is to make it un-stackable if two or more scourges were to use it at the same time. This would promote better coordination as well as punishing skill spam.

    Ranger:
    Nerfing the dmg coefficient on autos is not enough to stop one-shot builds, neither was nerfing sic'em by 15%. The real problem lies in being able to stack 25 might in the beastmastery line. Look into that.

    Mesmer:
    Chronomancer shatter changes need to be reverted, nothing else needs be said.
    Illusion of life: wrong things to nerf here. The problem with illusion of life was the fact that the illusioned player was invulnerable for 3s after being illusioned. Get rid of this. Mantra changes are good.

    Engineer:
    Revert the changes to function gyro. The new mechanic is clumsy and deleted all toolbelt skills for elite skills (I think you completely forgot they exist, right?). As it is right now there is one less counter for stealth which means less active gameplay = big no no.
    Tweaking purge gyro numbers does nothing. The real problem of scrapper cleanse was antitoxin runes. Perhaps make antitoxin runes not interact with scrapper at all, although this would be a very lazy fix.

    Warrior:
    Winds of Disenchantment: This skill is the single most oppressive skill in WvW due to the warrior freely able to move whilst channelling it. Make it one of the following:
    10s in duration, stationary, removing boons on a 1s interval, the first second no boons are removed
    OR
    5s in duration, stationary, removing boons on a 0.5s interval, the first second no boons are removed.
    Personally I'd prefer the 2nd option. Still giving people time to react but severely punishing them if they don't get out after 1s. Absolutely under no circumstances allow it to continue in its present state (mobile).
    Warhorn changes are....very heavy handed in my opinion. Makes the skills seem overly stacked. Either make it supportive skills or offensive skills, not both. What you suggested is too much, especially the resistance on Call to Arms and increasing allied dmg by 25% (potential 10 man 25% dmg increase with trait).

    Guardian:
    Signet of Mercy: I would decrease its cast time, to be perhaps on par with Illusion of Life. At the moment this skill (despite being very good) is completely countered by mount stomps.
    Proposed changes to tomes are inefficient. Tome of courage nerfs are especially too much (in my opinion) and further neuters firebrand in PvP. I suggest that you rework the trait Archivist of Whispers so that instead of extending the number of pages by 3, this trait now reduces CD of all tomes by 25%. This way tomes will be capped at 5 charges (reducing ability to spam tome skills) whilst also promoting a more active style of play with lower CDs on tomes.

    Elementalist:
    Meteor shower: the current system of reducing successive damage taken by meteors should be the opposite, in my opinion, so that the longer you stay in meteor shower AoE, the more damage you take. This would have several benefits including punishing players for not reacting, and rewarding the Ele for casting a good meteor shower (i.e. on downs).
    Staff weaver damage needs to be reduced across the board, especially in Fire/Air lines. Too many damage modifiers with Fire/Air/Weaver , as it stands the damage is extremely oppressive.

    Thief:
    Get rid of double steal in acrobatics (also applies to PvP).

    Revenant:
    Bring sword damage of revenant in WvW to be in line with its PvP counterpart (if not already). Hammer nerfs are good. I'd also suggest getting rid of the chill on Phase smash.

    Thanks for the communication.

    Edit: Source, I'm a long time WvW/GvG player, rank 9.5k and 650k WvW kills. In case a developer were to read this feedback they can realise that it's coming from a credible source.

  • Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭✭

    all changes seems good
    just for me spellbreaker need some nerf(winds of disenchantment and break enchantements)

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @NotoriousNaru.1705 said:
    I would strongly advise against nerfing scourge sustain even if it was only sand cascade. It will further push scourge out of the meta its barely hanging on by and will be an even easier target for high mobility / high spike specs like holo/rev/thief(condi/power) none of which you guys seem to have as a priority on this post but somehow scourge sustain is what comes to mind? Play 1 day of ranked there are far more pressing issues plagueing the balance currently than what most people consider 'food'.

    He did say the changes are focussed on WvW, and scourges are overperforming there when it comes to group play.

    Then nerf it in wvw only? You make no sense considering that change im speaking of is also directed at pvp.

    There's nothing in the original post that indicates they won't do exactly that. The post was to discuss changes in WvW and how they would affect the WvW meta, try not to put words in the OP's mouth :)

    are you ok???

    Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.

    Maybe learn to read.

    Ahh, fair point. Sorry, it's midnight and I'm halfway through a 20h shift, chalk that one up to tiredness haha xD

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • Burnfall.9573Burnfall.9573 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Jugglemonkey.8741 said:

    @Burnfall.9573 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Thief is the core root cause of the Toxicity in the game and amongst all professions combined, so why is Thief Profession exempt from the list?

    I was wondering when you'd pop up. Like I said earlier, thief gets indirect changes when reveal skills are changed, the proposed reveal changes are good, healthy changes, the lack of changes in this list specifically to thief does not imply there won't be any come the patch, and thief is also not part of the WvW group meta these days which is probably why it's not had much attention. We have a Dev asking for WvW specific feedback, don't waste that rare opportunity with your usual toxic thief hating agenda and give the guy some actually useful feedback, if not for my sake then for your own.

    Transparency

    “There’s no going back, and there’s no hiding the information. So let everyone have it.”

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    The problem, with scrapper cleansing is not in the skills it is in the antitoxin runes. That is what needs to be nerfed not skills. As for sneak gyro literally all that is needed is better anti stealth not further nerfs to the class. Stealth is overwhelming not just from scrapper but other classes with access to it.

    On firebrand, if you nerf tome of courage chapter 5 unbroken lines you should correspondingly reduce the cooldown.

    And on scourge you have to be told the issue is with the manifest sand shade aoe centering on the scourge as well as on the shades. That needs to be removed. Nerfing scourge damage is not needed if this change is made.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    If you wanted to make scrapper even less relevant in WvW than it is now, this is one way to accomplish that goal. While the chem field -> detection pulse change would be nice, it's completely irrelevant if the primary role scrapper serves in WvW (support) is made even worse, especially after what the last balance patch did.

    If the problem is rune of antitoxin, fix that instead.

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Jugglemonkey.8741Jugglemonkey.8741 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ImperialWL.7138 said:
    Thief:
    Get rid of double steal in acrobatics (also applies to PvP).

    This already happened, close to a year ago. It now reduces the current cooldown of steal by 50% on evading an attack, on a 10s ICD. The only full double steal ability is double mark with mercy on deadeye.

    Critical Kit, Deadeye.
    “If you find yourself in a fair fight, your tactics suck.” - John Steinbeck

  • rdigeri.7935rdigeri.7935 Member ✭✭✭

    These look like quite good changes.

    I hope the team will eventually get around to solving some of the issues of core engineer one of these being turrets (that don't have any use right now), the other being the kits.

    Turrets could maybe use an overhaul, or maybe become another skill type, while kits could use some updates, they're stuck in the era of hybrid damage; separating condi and power kits would allow them to be higher damage while still having room for other skills. This would be a nice change as long as the dps build damages remain high.

    Here are some potential examples:
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85592/my-dream-kit-patch-fun#latest
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85768/the-turrets-of-the-future-a-comprehensive-rework-including-traitlines#latest

    While we're at it, many have suggested that scrapper's Rocket Charge ability on hammer would be way more comfortable and useful if it had multiple charges (on lower cooldown), each with one evade and one leap finisher.

  • Cronos.6532Cronos.6532 Member ✭✭✭

    I don't play too much mesmer, but please don't make those mantras require line-of-sight and facing your target.

    signature

  • Thought WvW was going to be shown some love but the last few patches and this possible patch shows no love for WvW...

  • starlinvf.1358starlinvf.1358 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vova.2640 said:

    @Chaba.5410 said:

    @Vova.2640 said:

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. - I suggest leaving the gyro as it is and nerf Purity of Purpose trait instead. And Also take a look at antitoxin rune. Too many synergies there.

    Disagree. Nerfing the number of pulses, possibly looking at the rune is the best solution. Nerfing Purity of Purpose would just remove Scrapper entirely since it would have no differentiating purpose from other classes and skills that cleanse conditions.

    See the problem is, the way scrapper is right now, no other support class besides firebrand, who is being used thanks to all the stab and aegis it provide, is viable.
    Scrapper is killing support diversity (along with firebrands yes).
    I would be down if another class gave this many boons and heals like scrapper, while leaving scrapper as it is.
    I would also be down if another class gave this much stability and/or aegis like firebrand and firebrands left as they are.

    But the problem is there isn't anything else. Only other class that has been used as support was tempest, and tempest has both mediocre healing and not nearly as many boons as scrapper + no way to give stab not aegis to allies. Makes it an inferior choice even to scrapper.

    But heres the problem...... Offensive AOE in general scale faster then any of the supports. Its a fundamental fact, as old as WvW itself, you can NOT balance a scaling issue with Player count by by trying to reign in individual classes.

    Scourge is at the top of the offensive meta because it directly nullifies Boon sharing. Boon Sharing was king of the previous meta, because it was the one thing that finally sustain through the AOE bombs of the Pirate ship meta. Pirate ship meta became a thing because ranged Stuns were absolutely devastating to Melee classes. Corrupts, Boons, Stuns, Stability, all represent things that scaled massively compared to sPvP (with its 5 man limit).

    The skills that could survive, in spite of those, are all things that IGNORE SCALING.... which, through the irony of allowing the rest of the class to function normally, becomes a reversing force in any given meta. Spellbreaker's main function in WvW is Winds, which was strong because it wholesale interferes with Stability- and that only has value if its allowed to be delivered. The only reason that had happened with Warrior has to do with all its Immunity effects, since its the only thing lets them cut through all the AOE to place a Winds in an advantageous spot. Its other boon ripping abilities were merely opportunistic. By making Winds interruptible, by typical AOE bombs no less, the whole class rapidly fell out of the meta and those slots replaced with more group Stability and Stun Breaks. Winds can still work IF it lands, but thats total kitten shoot if the SB isn't invis or manages to come up from behind.

    You'll notice this same trend with other immunity skills. They go toe to toe with every meta, because they aren't subject to scaling limits, and thus always capable of keeping pace with the unlimited potential of offensive scaling. Resistance did a similar thing, but on a group wide scale, in the months leading up to POF. But its value is measured in direct reference to what it counters (ie Conditions). Stacking stability is of supreme importance in all the metas (basically everything since the Stab change) to counter the absolute decisiveness of AOE CC bombs.

    Guardian is the lynch pin of WvW, precisely because of its reliable access to stability, in a large enough amount to even matter. Pulsing Stab fails universally, because its not matching the fact that 5-10 hard CC per second is common in Zerg fights. 10 Stacks is something of a soft immunity to hard CCs due to how stab consumption is capped. But with Guard's ability to push out enough stab to deal with the CC aspect of bombs, you can build an effective group comp around this foundation.

    And to absolutely CLEAR here..... Guardians are "NOT the CAUSE". Like Spellbreaker, Purge Scrapper, Support Mes, and Tempest, those support builds rose to dominance because the were the only things proven to keep pace with the incoming damage/effects of 20-30 AOE skills at any given time. They are the response/symptom the damage capabilities of any given meta they are opposing. And to really drive home the point of how heavily skewed this entire fundamental problem with offensive is...... there was a point in Boonshare and Pre-pirate ship meta, where it was a viable strategy to cluster into a melee ball, in order exploit the 5 target cap of AOE damage skills as a form of distributed damage reduction. It was a calculated gamble, based on the size and comp of opposing teams, but one I've seen leveraged successfully in a number of server match ups. But as average outgoing damage increased, various defensive options lost viability.

    As fights get bigger, more things become functionally inadequate. The ONLY way to fix that, is to do something that strategically mandates smaller groups, and reduce the value of "aggregate power" of focus fire. In the kind of Numerical game GW2 operates on, immunity windows are the ONLY thing that can properly fill that role. Changing the target cap, or making damage distribution a thing, can change how fast thing scale, but not really solve the focus fire problem. A case where this is proven is the Jubilee Boss Blitz; where bosses scale faster the more players attacking it. I don't how this could be applied to player groups.... and currently I'm skeptical its even possible.... but redesigning the NPC side of WvW with this in mind, does give incentive to form smaller teams, and spread over different areas of the map to maximize (the now more valuable) coverage.
    Fight blobs would need a different solution.... one that might only be possible through a larger number of smaller maps, justifying smaller pop caps for each. This, at least conceptually, lends effectiveness to better group comps (and GvG in general), by making it harder to vastly outnumber an enemy group without costing you precious map slots.

    If you've made it this far down, its should be obvious by now that WvW balance isn't possible via direct changes to classes. They have to fundamentally change how WvW as a game mode operates in way where amassing zergs is detrimental to victory.

  • Guardian

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I think the Chapter 2 change makes a lot of sense and works well thematically too but please do not take away aegis from Chapter 5. Maybe the retaliation is overkill but there have been so many times that having quick access to a 600 radius aegis pulse has lead to great gameplay moments. I think taking away the last source of instant party aegis from Tome of Courage would be a big mistake and negatively impact the game in all gamemodes.

  • @Vova.2640 said:
    Also, please please PLEASE revert the chrono shatter changes.
    The spec is LITERALLY impossible to play in wvw because the clones INSTA die from random aoes.
    It is a failed rework, please admit it and revert it.

    So much This. Please Anet do something about this.

    Maybe keep it so, that you have a maximum effect of 3 clones (as a drawback of Chrono compared to Core) but still be able to selfshatter with effect as having one clone, when you dont have any up. That way you could use your shatters (esp. CS) without the need to be in combat.

    Another and maybe better and easier to implement possible solution would be to leave it as it is, but let shatter Skills produce one clone (which instantly gets shattered) as long as you dont have any clones up. Would also massively help making chrono playable in wvw as clones being killed too quick wouldnt be an issue anymore.

    Aside from that i cant contribute very much.
    I do however appreciate the way you are going in cooperating with the players very much! Keep the good work up!

    Greetings from the EU

  • Speaking from the position of a player in a guild that runs 20-25.

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?

    No

    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?

    Improve. We need counter play to stealth.

    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?

    Kind of. Interacting with stealth and CoR bombs not being as hot would be nice.

    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?

    It doesn't change the meta in any meaningful way. The reason illusion of life is strong in WvW is the hidden invun it gives. The reason scrapper (and tempest) cleanses are so strong is antitoxin runes. Scourges will still outclass melee focused comps because they hit ten targets, have built in melee protection due to shade attacks being around the caster+shade, and have good damage. Rev will still hold the role of strong range dmg + great team utility with boons/dwarf.

    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    Guild burnout from a meta that hasn't changed.

  • Vagrant.7206Vagrant.7206 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Kahrgan.7401 said:
    Please stop buffing every class every patch.. You need to start nerfing the OP ones... (mirage condi, holo, medi guard, to name a few)

    There's... not a buff for every class?

    The great god Lagki demands sacrifice!

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If you are going to damage nerf CoR again, please consider cleaning up its cascade so it doesn't have gaps in it and also its ability to travel terrain.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    In regards to engineer, not really, reducing the amount of cleanse on cleansing gyro like this won't kill the support build, granting it reveal is actually pretty good because stealth got really predominant after last patch.
    Increasing the CD of stealth gyro kind of makes it worse for the rest of the players, because stealth bombing strats were being used because the CD was short enough to use it more than once during a long fight, now this might make it either unrealiable enough for commanders to not consider it, or it stays the same, overall not a great solution (if stealth bombing is something that should be checked on, I think bringing more reveal is the right kind of solution, not really making stealth gyro feel even more underwhelming, the skill outside of organized group fights is now pretty bad tbh).
    Changes on warrior seem good, but still not enough to even build around them, I think tactics as a line needs a good rework, maybe shift away from the "reviving allies" effect, and bringing old traits on par with current standards, as of now, I want my spellbreakers and berserkers to both be damage oriented, and leave the support to other classes.

    Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    For the most part improve, except for the change on stealth gyro, which I think is the wrong way to address its usage.

    Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    To be honest, I'm always interested in balance changes, so yes, but I could look forward for them even more if more meaningful things were addressed.

    What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    As of right now, I think change on stealth gyro might slow things down a bit (having groups waiting for the CD to re enter a fight), which is not good.

    What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?
    As said before, some of the changes giving reveal on demand will be good (good counterplay to stealth bombing), others might make waiting between fights longer. Overall I think though that this are pretty minor changes, so I'm a bit disappointed.

  • hunkamania.7561hunkamania.7561 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Lots of nerfs are needed in wvw. Since we're dealing with large battles with a lot of people wvw should be more under tuned. We need longer fights and not everyone getting one shot and stealthing for 15 seconds

    Ferguson's Crossing Server Leader

    WVW LEADER

    VR

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.
      What are you trying to accomplish with necro? Scepter is used primarily for boon rip not damage. I can't even recall were FoC and DD land on my arc table for damage because its not that important they just don't hit that hard compared to other skills out there. If you want to reduce its pressure in wvw reduce its targets on shades. Most people run zerk or mara stats on scourge so barrier totals are low in general I don't see what lowering them is going to do. Necro really only has scourge in wvw for zerg play. People have a delusion that nerfing scourge will let them play reapers in squads again but it wont. Its to squishy and the base degen of shroud is to high. Your listed changes will honestly not change what necro does in zergplay.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.
      Why not change what really matters which is rangers over abundance of damage mods and rather large ones at that along with huge crit damage thanks to soulbeast merg. Your suggested change only effects one single aspect of ranger. A single rapid fire and one wolf pack on a full damage build is enough to take out a mount and the player on it before their 3/4 second heal induction can even finish unless they have some auto oh *&^% trait like endure pain/elixir(w/e its called)/ signet of stone etc. Hell you can lower longbow to the point no one will equip it. They will just move on to the next best thing doing the same cheese and all you accomplish is adding another wep to this games large pile of trash weapon sets.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.
      I highlighted the MAJOR problem with warrior here. Quite honestly I'm shocked every post here hasn't gone REEEEE POWERCREEP. 10 people +25% damage on two hits with a 15 second cooldown. sure lets change the meta. 1 warrior buff bot to every party and 3 revs. Everything that gets hit will die. Scourge will be a non issue even if you dont nerf it because it will be dead before it can get into the 900 range is needs for 90% of its skills.

    I only commented on the professions I've spent a significant amount of time on in WvW. I've done a fair bit of rev but not since the last big revamp so I'm rusty.

    A change you could make outside of your current list would be to make skills like endure pain/ signet of stone that allow attacking at the same time as not being hurt by power damage( so not the guard elite or engineers elixir) into a damage reduction skill instead. The skills would still be useful to slow incoming damage without being a full stall and if you wait to late to pop it you could potentially be killed regardless.

  • X T D.6458X T D.6458 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I will try to be as objective as possible here since Scourge is my main class in WvW, well Necro in general has been for years.

    -The current problems with WvW Meta- Boon spam, CC spam, Stealth Spam

    -Problems with Necromancer Class- Lacks defensive abilities, relies on offense and group support. Weapon skills are pitiful and frankly pathetic. Too many single target skills, and they are really all long due for an overhaul, especially Staff.

    -Problems with Scourge- This is a necessary spec in WvW to counter blobs and boon spam. Scourge has been nerfed many times with damage reduction, increased cooldowns, and reducing boon corruptions. What this does is force groups to use more Scourges to counter enemy groups. Scourge shade skills are weak on their own and can only kill anything when spammed, this is the fundamental core issue. Those shade skills are also tied to the Scourges defense like barrier and cleanses. With the removal of Shroud as a second health bar, it forces Scourges to play more offensively. Reducing the barrier provided by a Scourge makes little sense since the player has to rely on it for defense and has to rely on Healing power on buff it, since there is no second health bar as with Shroud and few defensive abilities.

    -A better solution would be to reduce the barrier applied to Allies. Weapon skills are already weak, no need to nerf them even more. Boon corruption is a necessity in WvW as one of the few counters to groups spamming and stacking boons and being unkillable. This carries bad players and just ruins the fun in fights when enemies can reapply and stack boons and instantly heal up to full while also instantly resurrecting allies.

    On a side note, Stealth gyro needs to be removed from the game. Seeing an entire zerg going invisible, freely moving around, for such a long duration is one of the most absurd things I have ever seen. This is an absolute failure in terms of design and balancing. Increasing the cd will not improve anything, since you can just rotate which Scapper uses it. The skill itself needs to be completely reworked.

    Somewhere chasing bags....

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