Potential Future Balance Changes - Page 8 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Potential Future Balance Changes

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  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭

    @phoenixXx.9105 said:
    Overall, I think wee need more synergy between specializations and potential reworks/buffs to the signets or commands.

    Eh.. no. They need to start working on bringing druid back to competetive play. Scrap the entire design, keep Grace of the Land for pve.

    Ranger in general has plenty of synergy between specializations.

  • Vegeta.2563Vegeta.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dawdler.8521 said:

    @Vegeta.2563 said:
    I feel that maybe instead of 75 seconds, it should be placed at 60 second to be on par with Mass Invisibility from Mesmer?

    Mass invisibility can be traited for 48 seconds. Gyros cannot be traited for lower cd. I wish they would since Anet decided to make the scrapper traits worthless, but you get the idea.

    If they really want to nerf it, just knock a pulse off or lower the stealth duration - or remove the smoke field on it. I'd rather have a competetive class on its own than maintaining a minstrel healbot for the sake of the zerg meta.

    Yeah.. I just mean to have the same timer as Mass invis without traits.. base timer basically.

  • Ragi.7291Ragi.7291 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048
    1. Warrior: Why put the barrier on a class that uses absolutely no barrier, respected the spirit of your classes please.

    1. Necro: Barrier reduction in MCM is good for DPS scourge!
      But increase the% barrier given according to the player's healing stat. For not kill the Necro Support / HEAL
  • As a engineer main and a wvw support those scrapper change look bad. The smoke field on f4 is a great tool in melee fight to reduce enemy zerk heal or to cleave body. And dont reduce the condi of pirge gyro its gonna make this skill so bad l, yes there is a problem and purge gyro is not, the problem is the antitoxin rune jjst had an icd. This rune is not baseline on the scrapper XD some dont use it and nerfing the skill instead of the rune would make the rune nearly a must. Overrall for the engineer its does not feel great, for me its a miss

  • Warrior could use some nerfing to their god mode exploit of stacking heal on might (which heals way to much for a class that can maintain 25 stacks of might), and while switching between passive blacks and invulnerability states can then focus on doing pure damage in all three areas including condition damage. I've seen the meta build for warrior bot the blocks and invulnerability while exploiting the 100% critical rate and whirlwind exploit that only hits foes at the starting point and not in the path for very high attacks boosted by critical chance for 5000+ damage per hit.

    Warriors have too little risk with a build that can passive block and then switch to invulnerability while in the middle of attacking. It should be either defense or attack not both.

    Invulnerability on warriors should disable all the warrior's attacks or blocks should not be passive meaning they fix them in-place and also disable attacks.

    Bad enough seeing a warrior shrug off large groups of players while being able to constantly dish out 5000+ damage per hit to their targets.

    I know the devs wanted an easy class idea with the warrior but warriors macro bot their blocks and exploit the critical system for a perfect win every time. Instead you have buffed their attack power for even more of a exploit...

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Bazooka.3590 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Bazooka.3590 said:

    Weaver
    Twist of Fate recharge from 5 to 10 (pvp/wvw only)
    Aqua Siphon recharge from 15 to 20 (pvp/wvw only)

    Twist of fate is fine,

    What's the problem with Aqua Siphon?

    The problem any decent weaver can hold points vs2 forever and vs3 for minutes.
    My point is: no tank should have lasts for minutes vs3. At least not in pvp because it is harmful for the pacing of the game.

    Okay, so there are 2 builds weaver has, one you can just leave it and +1 elsewhere and the other you can kite it since it doesn't have alot of mobility.. Overall Ele is probably the most balanced class of all since it has strengths and obvious weaknesses

    Still wondering why Aqua Siphon was mentioned since double attuning to water is not worth it

    You could say that about necro. Cause it has far more weaknesses than strengths.
    But about ele?
    Nope definitely not. There is for example a super overpowered condo roaming build right now, that is tankier than any class, with some insane condibursts, that tick you in 3 ticks.
    Sorry but ele is far away from being balanced.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭

    Welcome changes to Mesmers but we need more nerfs. This is not going to be enough!

  • @Nimon.7840 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Bazooka.3590 said:

    @Mini Crinny.6190 said:

    @Bazooka.3590 said:

    Weaver
    Twist of Fate recharge from 5 to 10 (pvp/wvw only)
    Aqua Siphon recharge from 15 to 20 (pvp/wvw only)

    Twist of fate is fine,

    What's the problem with Aqua Siphon?

    The problem any decent weaver can hold points vs2 forever and vs3 for minutes.
    My point is: no tank should have lasts for minutes vs3. At least not in pvp because it is harmful for the pacing of the game.

    Okay, so there are 2 builds weaver has, one you can just leave it and +1 elsewhere and the other you can kite it since it doesn't have alot of mobility.. Overall Ele is probably the most balanced class of all since it has strengths and obvious weaknesses

    Still wondering why Aqua Siphon was mentioned since double attuning to water is not worth it

    You could say that about necro. Cause it has far more weaknesses than strengths.
    But about ele?
    Nope definitely not. There is for example a super overpowered condo roaming build right now, that is tankier than any class, with some insane condibursts, that tick you in 3 ticks.
    Sorry but ele is far away from being balanced.

    It's a Shame you can no longer press 1 and kill a Ele now I guess but you can always kite it and it will die

  • Lonewolf Kai.3682Lonewolf Kai.3682 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Please consider not removing aegis from Tome of Courage skill 2 and 5. This change will ruin guardian off meta builds. I’d rather see the remove of the other boons.

    If healing from aegis is the problem, then nerf the healing power numbers to reduce it. Removing a block, which is the meat of a guardians self defense, isn’t health for build diversity.

  • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    Doubtful. Unfortunately, I mostly solo roam WvW on Reaper, and sometimes play very small group (3-4). I don't think the changes are centered around small scale at all. I have zerged only a handful of times, and hate following tags because of lag and rendering issues. Zerging really isn't that fun in any case.

    Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    Anything would probably help at this point. The most important thing is continuous balance patch progression. A lot of very questionable stuff stays live for a looonnggggg time. For example, only very recently have holosmiths become what I call "beatable" in small scale.

    Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    Sure. Some will be terrible in practice, but some will surprise on the up-side. Honestly, though, I think the primary balance issue haven't really been touched by these changes. For example, I initially hated the necromancer spectral mastery --> soul barbs change, so now I run fear of death instead. My play style is a bit different as a result, but it is progress....

    What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    As stated previously, don't think that this specific revision will really change much on a fundamentals level, as they do not really strike at the core issues that dog the mode, the most obvious of which is overall balance across professions: some professions are simply much stronger than others.

    Necromancers, for example, are on the weak end of the spectrum in WvW and SPvP: they "so-so" damage over a wide area, have good boon strip and flip, but have very obvious and easily exploitable weaknesses, as well as no real sustain. The weakness are largely overcome by stacking in WvW. Unfortunately, when stacked, necromancers (a weak profession) become a maelstrom of death due to persistent area damage spam and boon flip/strips. Solution: you need to make necromancers stronger, and remove the efficiency of stacking. The second could be done simply by force enabling melee assist, so that characters cannot occupy the same space. The former could be done via incorporating actual sustain into the necromancer kit.

    What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?
    Hard to determine, and probably dominated by second order effects.

  • Fengzhou.9853Fengzhou.9853 Member ✭✭✭

    My biggest concern with the Rev changes to hammer is.. hammer is rarely used outside of wvw now, doing these changes at this point will it make hammer totally obsolete? I would favor changes that actually make ALL weapons attractive to open up better build diversities over obsolescence. Is there not some way to make this a more attractive weapon for pve? As a backline hammer rev, I really enjoyed how it plays even in pve but there's no room for it in fractals or raiding at all. I would strongly prefer changes that make things not soo cookie cutter in the sense that only ONE set of weapons for pve and ONE only for pvp/wvw.

    We have all these weapons available to all these professions but it seems most of them are just dead in the water.

    I am sad to see the possible change to ranger longbow because already as it is, nobody wants rangers for anything unless they're healing on druid in wvw. They need to have some kind of compensation, maybe adjustments to shortbow as well. The disparity between power/condi builds is kinda huge. I understand the shift moved to power more over condi because of all the people using massive condi cleanses again, now there's shift to press that back or to make changes kinda cancel out the point in making them in the first place.

    Can something be done for longbow on dragonhunter too please? It's become a laughing stock anymore. I absolutely used to adore it in pve, but it's again, like hammer for rev a laughable thing for any actual content that isn't strictly open world.

    How can changes be made that will satisfy people while at the same time, curbing.. 'one shot' style play or making weapons obsolete?

  • greysen.2506greysen.2506 Member
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Zepoolpe.9217 said:

    @greysen.2506 said:
    Should be giving some nice buffs to PVE while at it. This class is currently garbage in PVE. I don't mean that to insult anyone but I just did every story quest in the game on Necro ( which was a god awful tedious experience due to what felt like some of the lowest damage possible) and then on a Ranger (which was like heaven by comparison). Will be using Necro for farming SW only now. There should never be that big a disparity between two classes where you feel like one was pure trash in its ability to kill stuff. And I wasted plenty of gold messing with the build but nothing made it much better. That there are currently no metas out there for Necro also says quite a bit about it. Most every class has some kind of meta build except Necro. Please buff this for PVE. It's a tedious grind to play it. Things take forever to die.

    I don't mean to insult anyone either but posts like this always make me laugh...

    And these posts are always insulting when you say what people write makes you laugh. Rude and insulting. So you missed your objective to not be insulting. Once you laugh at something someone says or writes you have insulted them. Pretending to not want to insult anyone then being dismissive and insulting is actually worse than just straight out being a rude person. And you know your intention was to be insulting.

    Power reaper lacks single target damage. That was the specific problem in PVE doing the stories. Specific bosses were a tedious chore due to the lack of single target dps. https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/

    Many situations in this game's stories require you to focus single target bosses. In some, range is the only decent option. I don't use a staff ever and the alternative weapons provide terrible dps. So fat hp hitbags take forever and are a chore. Perhaps not for you because you laugh at others but I've read enough about Necros to see that my thoughts on this are actually far from uncommon. When someone like you comes along and dismisses people with a laugh because for whatever reason it is easy for you, you just come off like a jerk. An elitist jerk who wants to pretend to not be one.

  • Ganathar.4956Ganathar.4956 Member ✭✭✭

    @greysen.2506 said:

    @Zepoolpe.9217 said:

    @greysen.2506 said:
    Should be giving some nice buffs to PVE while at it. This class is currently garbage in PVE. I don't mean that to insult anyone but I just did every story quest in the game on Necro ( which was a god awful tedious experience due to what felt like some of the lowest damage possible) and then on a Ranger (which was like heaven by comparison). Will be using Necro for farming SW only now. There should never be that big a disparity between two classes where you feel like one was pure trash in its ability to kill stuff. And I wasted plenty of gold messing with the build but nothing made it much better. That there are currently no metas out there for Necro also says quite a bit about it. Most every class has some kind of meta build except Necro. Please buff this for PVE. It's a tedious grind to play it. Things take forever to die.

    I don't mean to insult anyone either but posts like this always make me laugh...

    And these posts are always insulting when you say what people write makes you laugh. Rude and insulting. So you missed your objective to not be insulting. Once you laugh at something someone says or writes you have insulted them. Pretending to not want to insult anyone then being dismissive and insulting is actually worse than just straight out being a rude person. And you know your intention was to be insulting.

    Power reaper lacks single target damage. That was the specific problem in PVE doing the stories. Specific bosses were a tedious chore due to the lack of single target dps. https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/

    Many situations in this game's stories require you to focus single target bosses. In some, range is the only decent option. I don't use a staff ever and the alternative weapons provide terrible dps. So fat hp hitbags take forever and are a chore. Perhaps not for you because you laugh at others but I've read enough about Necros to see that my thoughts on this are actually far from uncommon. When someone like you comes along and dismisses people with a laugh because for whatever reason it is easy for you, you just come off like a jerk. An elitist jerk who wants to pretend to not be one.

    Necro, and especially reaper, is by far the easiest class to solo PvE with. And no, the damage is only sub-optimal in raids where everyone gets full boons and buffs. If you remove supports, reapers do very high damage because they have pretty good access to self-might and quickness. Reaper doesn't have a single weakness as a solo build and if there was challenging solo content that was relevant it would be the undisputed meta. Stop looking at raid strategies and thinking they have any relevance in solo play.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Where is the forgotten Spec? = buff dp teef, get rid of spammy Sd condi w/o destroying Sd Power. UR challenge!!! Show us that we r all wrong and u can do it.

  • Azure The Heartless.3261Azure The Heartless.3261 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Patch notes being considered do the things.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    We need more of these threads. This is very good to see and a high frequency of threads like these by Anet, along with them working with proven, experienced members of their competitive/endgame-modes will encourage people to stay and continue playing.

    Agreed.
    Thanks for offering more transparency on this before the skills get implemented. It is a large help in pointing out oversights that could potentially cripple classes before the actual patch date. Please keep doing this.

    I'm only going to comment on PVP changes, since WvW is outside of my scope right now.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.

    This is fine, but I would like to note that this change will largely affect WVW mesmers, so I'd like to pass that feedback off to them.

    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Mesmers in pvp wont like this, but It will make retreating mesmers weaker and allow some breakup of their damage dealing, while keeping their openers useful. The only question I have is, "what do you mean by "respects line of sight?" Are we talking line of sight that follows the curvature of terrain marked as ground, or are we talking an invisible physical projectile like headshot that can be obstructed on inclines?

    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.

    Okay, but I don't think this is entirely necessary because of the rework made below. If someone remains in chaos storm random dazes would be a reasonable outcome of that. As long as the chaos storm synergy doesnt force them to remain in the storm, it should be fine as is. I'll let a mes chime in on that/pass feedback on that off to affected mains.

    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    This is fine. same kind of behavior as improvisation. What is the cooldown on it? If there's no cooldown, then the above change to chaos storm makes more sense. If theres a reasonable cooldown, my stance on the above change to chaos storm remains as it was.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Seems like a WVW change which I will pass off to wvw necros. The PVP influence seems...iffy. Just keep in mind that teams hard target necros first in conquest, so reducing their barrier could make them useless easily.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Fair.

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    The same range as DDs new Swipe huh? Fair enough. Gives heralds a fighting chance against thieves if they're not running meta, but if they -are- currently running meta (power, Shiro/Herald, sword/sword staff) it makes that a losing matchup for thief now.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    Not sure i I like warriors hard countering thieves that much. They already have magebane tether that acts as both a reveal and a CC. Do they need the sight beyond sight buff as well?

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Summary: Seems fine overall; thieves indirectly being nerfed, people will continue to claim thieves are busted. Thieves should now immediately leave if a warrior is nearby and they are not outnumbering the warrior. I don't like that, but it seems thematic.

    [Charr Noises]
    [Plays every class]
    [JUST GIT EVEN GUDDER ITS FINE]

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭

    The Necro nerfs are interesting....

    I feels like the developers currently philosophy with Necro's is simple. Do allow them to be close to competitive in any mode.
    Not top tier Raid (check), T4 (check), WVW (upcoming check)...

  • Where is the thief changes? The bubble prep doesnt work like it is supposed to.
    On interupt effect arent proccing all the time and people still get inside or out without stability/immunes/evades. It should act like Rift of Warding but it does not. Needs thicker prevention measures.

  • Should also add like 20% dmg nerf for Scourge. If you see a zerg you can bet 90% of them are Scourges and the ground is just red AF.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?

    Not as it stands

    Engineer
    * Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Engineer needs something back from having removed stealth detection in the last balance pass

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    I can see why you want to do this.

    The biggest problem is that you haven't addressed the Scrapper Vitality nerf. I understand your desire for a tradeoff, but you ought to consider what you did with Berserker by creating a Grand Master trait that offsets the penalty, albeit without getting as much a buff as the other two Grand Master traits. As it stands you have severely hamstrung Scrapper healers by nerfing vitality and then tying barrier to damage. Another way of helping scrapper healers would be to add the amount of healing done to the incoming barrier increase.

    Guardian
    NO comments

    Mesmer
    * Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.

    This nerf in itself is not a huge concern, but it is a single piece in a much larger picture of your systemic assault on Mesmer & especially Chronomancer that have suffered change after change and nerf after nerf. Whether accurate or not, you have given the impression that you don't know what you want Mesmers & Chronos to be. This has been a serious and significant detriment to the class game wide. Truly I would recommend holding off on this and even consider giving Chrono a buff to off set the harshness of how you have treated them in the past 2 years.

    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer
    * Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    * Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    * Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    * Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    I think these are healthy changes for these game modes.

    Ranger
    * Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Why are you doing this? For a class which so many WvW commanders have explicitly stated that they kick from squads, and others have gone as far as saying they have no place in WvW, the only role left for most rangers is roaming. It makes no sense to reduce their dps this way unless you find a way to increase their desirability for group play.

    Revenant
    * Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    * Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    I think this too will be a good addition to WvW to provide counterplay to stealth.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.

    I like the change to condition removal, I don't like the barrier. Barrier needs to stay primarily the place of scrapper & scourge. Don't spread it about too much.

    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.

    Also a welcome change

    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.
  • Zepoolpe.9217Zepoolpe.9217 Member ✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @greysen.2506 said:

    @Zepoolpe.9217 said:

    @greysen.2506 said:
    Should be giving some nice buffs to PVE while at it. This class is currently garbage in PVE. I don't mean that to insult anyone but I just did every story quest in the game on Necro ( which was a god awful tedious experience due to what felt like some of the lowest damage possible) and then on a Ranger (which was like heaven by comparison). Will be using Necro for farming SW only now. There should never be that big a disparity between two classes where you feel like one was pure trash in its ability to kill stuff. And I wasted plenty of gold messing with the build but nothing made it much better. That there are currently no metas out there for Necro also says quite a bit about it. Most every class has some kind of meta build except Necro. Please buff this for PVE. It's a tedious grind to play it. Things take forever to die.

    I don't mean to insult anyone either but posts like this always make me laugh...

    And these posts are always insulting when you say what people write makes you laugh. Rude and insulting. So you missed your objective to not be insulting. Once you laugh at something someone says or writes you have insulted them. Pretending to not want to insult anyone then being dismissive and insulting is actually worse than just straight out being a rude person. And you know your intention was to be insulting.

    Power reaper lacks single target damage. That was the specific problem in PVE doing the stories. Specific bosses were a tedious chore due to the lack of single target dps. https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/necromancer/reaper/power/

    Many situations in this game's stories require you to focus single target bosses. In some, range is the only decent option. I don't use a staff ever and the alternative weapons provide terrible dps. So fat hp hitbags take forever and are a chore. Perhaps not for you because you laugh at others but I've read enough about Necros to see that my thoughts on this are actually far from uncommon. When someone like you comes along and dismisses people with a laugh because for whatever reason it is easy for you, you just come off like a jerk. An elitist jerk who wants to pretend to not be one.

    Right... The fact that you seem to have stopped reading at my initial jest (it was a jest, maybe a poor one, but on intend to replicate your own "i don't mean to insult...") and then went on to try to explain me why Reaper is a bad class citing a site about raid builds kinda makes my point: in my post i tried to explain why players should not look at the so called "meta" as the Almighty Truth in all cases because it is only meaningful in very precise cases.
    Raid builds are for raids only... in fact, they are not even for all raid fights because depending of the raid boss, the optimal class & build configuration will change.
    Is any Reaper (or Core Necro or Scourge for that matter) good for raids? No, absolutely not.

    But you were not talking about raids, you were talking about a generic PvE environment (ie: the Open World) and the quests it contains (either story line ones or world events) and that you usually do solo (I'm counting events as solo, because even if you are in a group, there is no synergies and it is more a mass solo party than a real group).
    Is Reaper good for this solo environment? Hell yes! I'd even say that's it's one of the best.
    Why? Well the post right after yours summarised it very well:

    @Ganathar.4956 said:
    Necro, and especially reaper, is by far the easiest class to solo PvE with. And no, the damage is only sub-optimal in raids where everyone gets full boons and buffs. If you remove supports, reapers do very high damage because they have pretty good access to self-might and quickness. Reaper doesn't have a single weakness as a solo build and if there was challenging solo content that was relevant it would be the undisputed meta. Stop looking at raid strategies and thinking they have any relevance in solo play.

    Let's look in detail why Reaper is a good soloing class: it's a jack-of-all-trades! They self-buff (not all buffs, but some of the most important ones for DPS like stab, might, quickness, etc...), they rip boons, they have an extended HP pool (aka the shroud), they can CC (hard and soft), they have interrupts, they can reach close to 100% crit chance (when in shroud), they have a very good melee weapon (greatsword) and a very good ranged weapon (axe) and you have one of the best AoE burst in the game with Reaper Shroud #4 (aka #spin2win ;) )
    Then there is the build: like i said, if you want to cheese everything, including most champions, use the minion master build: they will heal, they will soak damage for you, they will tank for you, they will CC for you. A reaper Minion Master is basically a one man army.

    You want to do fractals? Well, try Discretize's Reaper build (btw, check their website and read whet they are saying about reapers in fractals). Is part of the usual fractal meta? No, of course not, but you don't really need meta if you are not doing T4 CM fractals, good builds are enough.

    Ok.. that's for the class and the build.. now let's look a the player (and by player, i don't mean you, i mean a generic player).
    You mentioned Snow Crows meta builds. Ok.. Then let's take an average player, give him a meta class/build with fully optimised ascended gear and ask him to reach the same kind of dps on the (static) training golem that shown on the Snow Crows vids: most players will only reach 40 or 50% of the max DPS shown on the video. Then put them in an fight with a boss that has fight mechanics and they will do even less.
    Why? Well..

    • Is he a clicker or does he use keybinds?
    • If he is using keybinds, are they the default ones or are they optimised for his position on his keyboard?
    • Is he using a gamer mouse with button on the side or a normal mouse? (a gamer mouse is not an absolute necessity but it greatly helps)
    • Does he know his optimum skill rotation or does he just smash his keybinds at random as they come out of cooldown.
    • Does he hold a particular skill in his rotation even though it's out of CD just because he know he will need it of a coming fight mechanic or does he go blindly in a fight.
    • etc...

    All that to say to you these two things:
    1. Always look at a class & build in the context of the content you are actually doing (which also means that yo can have different toons with different classes for other contents)
    2. If you are not performing well, don't go "that class is awful" right away, but look at your gameplay and ask yourself "what I am doing wrong and how can i improve it".
    Trust me: I've been there and then someone pointed out exactly what I've just pointed out to you and it helped improve my gameplay a lot.

    PS: sorry guys for the wall of text ;)

  • DeceiverX.8361DeceiverX.8361 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Okay, some good direction here, but this is only the very beginning of what's needed.

    Very little is going to change until boon in both access and duration AND ease of application/generation, invulns/damage immunity effects, and Scourge/AoE Boon Corruption spam are straight-up gutted. It's just too much.

    Bottom line is this: AoE anything should be generated by combo fields/finishers to reward players who work well together and punish those who don't. Having field + finisher in one kit creates a power dynamic favoring a certain class for some specific thing, but also lets some of the power-budget of a class be assigned to combo fields/finisher types rather than solely playing on duration/intensity where "class which gives most access to X boon and is still strong elsewhere is clearly the best." Adding risk-factors is an important part of PvP balance and shared interactive mechanics players play off of and strategize around is what makes group PvP more interesting.

    Further along this point worth mentioning is engagement when it comes to the PvP experience in general. Look back on the game's launch manifesto about skill visibility and paying attention to what characters are doing rather than a bar of skills. Paying attention to what people are doing is fun. Paying attention to their respective skill/buff bars isn't. Invulns, sequenced blocks, boon strength (protection and resistance) and other damage mitigation are what outright define a win or loss in the current game-state. This isn't engaging, and isn't fun, and there's just so much power in them that they can't be ignored nor can a meta evolve around them. Increasing predictability is a good thing, and is a major factor in what defines and consequently rewards/makes distinct skilled play from unskilled play.

    You sure that Sniper idea is as good as you thought it was gonna be?
    Because I think my original idea is better.
    Quit/Inactive. No, you can't have my stuff.

  • These changes may be good for necro in wvw but not spvp. Necro is already a free kill in spvp and nerfing barrier is unnecessary,

  • dceptaconroy.7928dceptaconroy.7928 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Devouring on necro not only effects scourge it munts core as well. We dont need that thanks. Do what you will on the rest. Maybe think about the boon spewing classes and hit them, therefore reducing the corrupts.

  • DEATHsCLAW.1978DEATHsCLAW.1978 Member ✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.
    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    this "balance patch" would be another one with no impact at all on the game. I don't mean to be rude or so but Anet YOUR COMPETITIVE SCENE IS DYING BECAUSE OF BAD BALACE AND YOU ARE DOING NOTHING ABOUT IT!!

    I dont say I don't like your Mantra, Firebrand or Scrapper changes there and also the idea of buffing Warrior Warhorn is good but you need to adress the core problems of the specs!

    coming from a pvp perspective, start with this:

    Thief: Condi Thief is overtuned. look at Spider Venom, Deathly Ambition and Lotus Training.

    Mesmer: finally start touching Mirage. there is no problem about Core or Chrono builds its just Mirage and you keep nerfing core stuff!! I would nerf the Clone Ambushes and the overall Invul-Uptime

    Warrior: finally rework that Berserker spec to be useful then nerf Arc Divider to compensate. its the only thing keeping Berserker alive and shadows it's many other problems. while your at warrior finally nerf Full Counter and make Teleports break Megabane Tether

    Guardian: The FB support nullifies many condition based midfighters in PVP and should be toned down. also DH needs some love and some swiftness in the Virtue Line would help a lot.

    Necromancer: the biggest victim of the balancing flaws of the last 7 years. Scourge is the best thing that could have happened to it bc it has on demand Barrier ("active defense") no shroud and can therefore always be healed and supported. maybe that gives you a hint.. Core and Reaper cannot be supported as well what would be no problem if they were lone fighting sidenoders but no wait there are no active defenses and barely any Stability.. the only reason you see some Reapers in pvp is the biggest OP Trait of the game Reapers Onslaught which overshadows its problems. I dunno where to start here but a rework in Death Magic and an evade on GS#3 would be something..

    Engineer:
    Finally touch that Forge Mode seriously.. increase Holo Leap cooldown and decrease the range of Corona Burst. a overall damage shave would be welcome too. and take a look at the Quickness uptime of Engineer no class should have perma Quickness

    Revenant: I love Revenant just it's Burst is a bit overtuned

    Ranger: Just show Druid some love like a Thoughness and Healingpower Buff in exchange of lower Pet stats. Also reduce the Celestrial Avatar cooldown to 10s

    Elementalist: I like the state of Elementalist in the game always dangerous but not cancerous to play against.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Because I am not going to read through 8ish pages of comments I will add my thoughts as a warrior who has been wanting Warhorn changes.

    I like the proposed changes. I would ask for 1 thing to be add somewhere to them though. Can Retaliation be added to WH4 or WH5 when traited? I'd take Retaliation over Fury on WH4 personally. We have good group Fury uptime from "For Great Justice!" already. I think something missing from the warrior support abilities is a high-ish uptime of Retaliation, and adding that to WH4 instead of Fury makes a lot of sense. I'm not sure what duration would be appropriate, but something along the lines of 6-8s should be decent uptime.

    Would you all mind looking at the rest of the Tactics line while you are there? The Grandmaster traits are kind of meh at the moment. Powerful Synergy is less useful than you would think, Phalanx Strength you toned down to give other classes room to be group might generators, and Vigorous Shouts doesn't heal for that much. Phalanx Strength could share more boons than just Might, and Powerful Synergy could be made to do something else when you combo in a combo field, and Vigorous Shouts could be really great if its base healing were higher, and not even by that much, something like 20% may be sufficient.

    With the proposed Warhorn changes you have the opportunity to create a really great support spec for warriors, but I think that the Grandmaster traits in Tactics need reworking for that to happen.

  • Ambrosius Custard.8137Ambrosius Custard.8137 Member ✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    IMO I think reworking Tactics alongside Warhorn is the key to making it a truly viable option. Not to say that improving the Warhorn isn't welcome, but even the proposed changes won't make it a meta pick anywhere or even a tier 2 build pick in all honesty. To be honest, the 'tools' are kind of their already but I feel that the minor traits in the Tactics spec are really, really lacklustre. You could do the following for the minors to make it more workable:

    (Minor Adept) Combined Determined Renewal + Reviver's Might (lower the reduction from DR if needs be but it's such a minor thing) > (Minor Master) Powerful Synergy (combos have kind of been left behind with the powercreep but having access to this and 2 blast finishers on Warhorn would be pretty sweet) > Inspiring Presence (as is now) + Phalanx Strength (PS is a decent idea for a trait but I feel it should be core to the Tactics specline, this would open up the door to other Major traits allowing for other boons to be shared, as a potential balancer you could reduce the radius and add an increase in radius as part of the trait that shares other boons)

    As for a rework on Quick Breathing, IMO it should add something to each Burst one hander you pair with Warhorn to make it more supportive. Even if say it reduces the damage on said Burst abilities as a drawback.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Ambrosius Custard.8137

    Such a rework of Tactics might not happen, and I think it is possible for them to make these Warhorn changes first without touching the rest of Tactics. It would be good to see how this changes pan out. I do think the Grandmaster traits could be tweaked, and that may be easier to do than what you suggest. Not that I dislike your suggestions, I do like them [edit].

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 If you all make these Warhorn changes, AND tweak some more of the Tactics line I would roll Warhorn for things other than swiftness upkeep and blasting at Mistlock Singularities. As others have stated this opens the door to a very good support spec for warriors, but you will need to touch more than just Warhorn. These changes will be good though. I can see using it in WvW for extra sustain and DPS for key skills, not just for me, but also my allies.

    One question for you to ponder, and if you reply great if not then please at least consider this. How would WH4 stack with the proposed +25% damage on the next attack if two warriors use it back to back, or one uses it back to back at the Mistlock Singularity? Would it stack in duration, number of hits, just reapply itself, or not at all? I can see the number of attacks stacking being fine so long as it was capped at a certain number of attacks.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 Please take a look at Soul Beast defenses... “Unflinching Fortitude” Invulnerable with condi removal and stunbreak all for 35s cooldown.

    After nerfing Mirage, Holo, Daredevil, defenses I think its time to look at SB. It’s not just their offense thats imbalanced.

  • Stagar.7216Stagar.7216 Member
    edited September 4, 2019

    Jeez leave mesmer alone. What is the devs vendetta against mesmers? Mesmers arent even used in pugs or groups and all they have is the ability to roam and now you want to take that away too? Mes arent even the best roamers right now :/

    Also why isn't scourge dmg getting nerfed? Scourge are the highest dps in wvw and yet revs are getting nerfed more? I dont think devs play wvw.

  • PaladinVII.1647PaladinVII.1647 Member ✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.
    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    I am a main engineer nearing 10,000 account hours. My primary game mode is WvW small group havoc.

    Chemical Field : Replacing this with detection pulse sounds plausible. Chemical Field is useless. It is a literal waste of time to use. The only situation it has use is to slow reviving of players near you, which is better served by just cleaving your target. That said, Detection Pulse is equally useless. It has a very specific use (mass removal of stealth) and nothing beyond that. It also does not function in PvE even against the few enemies that do use stealth such as jaguars. If Detection Pulse is re-introduced, it must have some other purpose, such as the application of vulnerability and or weakness. Compare the skill with "Sick 'Em," which has a damage boost.

    Purge Gyro : I see no use of this skill in WvW and no precedence for reducing its functionality. I used it and found the condition removal to be sub par. It removes 1 condition a second in a game mode where constant condition pressure can be applied. There are better condition cleanses that are more potent and equally mobile (Mesmer Mantra of Cleansing, Mallyx Revenants, Any Guardian Build, etc, etc, etc.) The argument that it is a mobile light field that could be blasted for condition cleanses is equally ludicrous. Guardians pollute the battlefield with so many light fields that it is difficult to find a place to combo a different field. I suggest leaving this skill alone, it is in adequate place. It's not great, but it's not terrible either.

    Sneak Gyro : I believe that an increase to 60 seconds can be justified when the skill is compared to Mesmer Mass Invisibility. This would make Mesmers traited in Manipulations be competitive for group stealth (60s / 48s traited stealth for Mesmer, 60s compared to current 45s Sneak Gyro). I do not feel that 75s is justified with Mass Invisibility in its current state.

    Feedback on Proposed Changes : Changing Chemical Field into something useful would make me consider the skill again, the proposed changes to Purge Gyro would again make me disregard the skill as useless. My Gameplay would not change if these proposals came to pass, I would still not use Purge Gyro or its counterpart toolbelt skill. I would still occasionally use Sneak Gyro over Supply Crate on my Engineer, the class has few good elite skill options.

    The consequences I see from these changes would be the few who use Purge Gyro would stop using it and replace the skill with something else; Fumigate from the Engineer's Elixir Gun might be used more, if it was not already used in conjunction with Purge Gyro as a support condition cleanse Scrapper. A large, unprecedented increase in cooldown to the Sneak Gyro I forsee causing Scrappers to again play other classes in WvW. Engineers fill few roles in WvW, the Sneak Gyro gave them a place. The power of the Sneak Gyro is potent, but comparable to Mass Invisibility. It should be competitive with that skill, not better or worse.

    Finally, I wish to continue to admonish whoever has been handling the balance of the Engineer. I do not know why you have a clear vendetta against this class, but please stop. You turned Flamethrower 2 into a soggy pasta launcher - the only other attack skill the kit has - and in the underwater update, the Flamethrower was again passed up for underwater use, continuing the tradition of having a useless build if a Flamethrower focused engineer sets foot in water. Now this nonsense is proposed to reign in Purge Gyro which probably sees no use, swap in what way the associated toolbelt skill is situational and usually useless, and incentivize Scrappers to once again play another class in WvW. I know how cruel this sounds, but I was honestly hoping whoever has been responsible for these nonsensical and inconsistent balances updates was among those laid off. At least you are giving an illusion that the players have some say in your upcoming changes - I do not think for one moment, based on past precedence, that any feedback will be considered and that the proposed changes will be implemented no matter what is said. As I said, precedence says otherwise, change my mind.

  • To be honest, as a long term WVW player, and after the disheartening announcement the other day, running a bunch more nerfs across players favorite classes specifically aimed at wvw comp changes is going to do little for the morale of wvw players. There is little in these balance changes that would in fact excite anyone, and very likely will just convince players to move on from the game vs. Try something new. Ussually I embrace balance patch changes with enthusiasm hoping that something fun and new will come my way and in general they ussually spawn the fun of coming up with new builds and armor changes. What is proposed here fills me with a growing sense of worry as they hold little in them that would attract people to try something new or even continue on. In a game mode with a shaky at best future.

  • Why do they call it a balance patch when 99% is nerfs.. Where exactly are the buffs.. Three years i was gone and still its not balance its just nerfs..

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings fellow Tyrians,

    We've been thinking about implementing the following changes and wanted to share them with you to hear your thoughts and feedback. We’re aiming to bring into line some of the more dominant builds and compositions of the current WvW meta so that new options can be brought to the table, so the bulk of the changes shared here are WvW-centric. This is not the full list of changes that are being considered for the next balance update.

    This is not a call for general profession feedback. Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes?
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes?

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Here are my thoughts:

    Engineer

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Kind of weird the Purge Gyro giving a detection pulse, but where else could you put the skill back. At least it's back.

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    Anti-toxin runes are the problem, not the cleansing pulses. This would nerf scrapper builds not using Anti-toxin runes, like roamers.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    45 seconds is already fine. The stealth duration was already nerfed. If you really want the 75 second cooldown, revert the stealth nerf.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Still won't be used due to the cast time. You could make it a "null dome" in which nothing can be applied or damaged while inside the dome. Not even heals aside from the skill's healing.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    Would not really change much, in my opinion. Resolve tome is mainly used for SHTF healing.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    Courage tome is from Virtue of Courage, which is supposed to be the guardian's block.
    F1 is damage, F2 is heals, F3 is block.
    This would be so out of flavor. Retaliation coming from guards is an afterthought, honestly. Basing from core, all of the guardian's virtues are supposed to give Retaliation. This is a bad change in my opinion.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Skill won't be worth calling the "Epilogue". I can see why this is warranted, but at least revert the toughness nerf back.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    In my opinion, this wouldn't really put a dent in large-scale fights, but would really nerf roaming/solo/small-scale necromancer performance.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    LOL. Why?

    Revenant

    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Might lessen the "Pirate Ship" meta, but would also make Revenants more "brain-dead". Now Revs don't have to position themselves properly to achieve maximum damage. Melee deathball or Pirate Ship, they would now have the same efficacy.

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    I think this would affect small-scale/roaming more than the large scale fights, seeing as Detection Pulse would be back as well.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.

    Yay Power Creep! Warrior warhorn needs to keep up with the rest! Meh on large-scale fights, but could potentially be OP on smaller scale.
    Incoming Axe/Warhorn warrior eviscerating/decapitating in a borderland near you!

    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.

    Yay Power Creep! Spellbreakers will now be useful after dropping their winds.

    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.

    Sure, why not? Not game-breaking since if a warrior reveals someone that far, they still have to engage them in melee to do damage.

    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    The thing is, the Tactics traitline is underwhelming now thanks to the power creep and nerfs.

    So Elite-Spec trait + Discipline, and then now you have to choose between Strength for more damage(mostly for smaller scale fights), Defense for more survivability (for large-scale), and Tactics for... just this trait?
    Maybe Vanilla zerg builds would see some play.

    We look forward to seeing your thoughts and feedback!

    Sincerely,
    GW2 Systems Team

    Thank you for asking about our thoughts and feedback.

    Apathy is death.

  • Black Storm.6974Black Storm.6974 Member
    edited September 5, 2019

    The nerf of Sand Cascade and Sand Flare would be a big nerf to Scourge support/healer and this is really not needed.

    Instead of just reducing the base barrier, you could increase the healing coefficient, to not touch Scourge healer.

    Also, I don’t really understand why you plan to apply these changes to PvP.

    I’d like to play support Scourge in PvP, but it really needs to be buffed, certainly not nerfed. I’d make something to improve its self sustain (PvP only).

  • talprofil.5986talprofil.5986 Member ✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Aisling.5901 said:

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    As one of the apparent few Scrapper mains left in PvP this change is so ignorant it legitimately angers me. Because this isn't a WvW specific change it's a general change. You're exclusively making this class less interesting while simultaneously contradicting its own design all to give it an asinine reveal it used to have.

    As a bunker and support class Chemical Field actually allows Scrappers to help reduce enemy healing and hinder enemy downs which benefits the entire team indirectly which is the point of support. It also is a combo field which is the mechanic Scrapper is supposed to be built around is using combo fields. The developers are saying they want to take away one of the few synergies the Scrapper's gimmick actually has with combo fields, also taking away their team support via lessening enemy heals; and replace it with an extremely situational reveal that has no combo field synergy and used to be something the Scrapper had anyways before they arbitrarily took it away and replaced it with the currently near useless gutted version of the Function Gyro which barely functions in actual practice if you bothered testing it even at all.

    Also detection pulse is basically worthless in PVE where at least poison and weakness combo fields were actually useful for something.

    Taking away one of the support abilities a support class has, and taking away one of the mechanical gimmicks a mechanical gimmick class has; to replace it with a situational reveal that barely benefits anyone as the main classes that currently even use stealth are Deadeye and stealthbomb Holosmith. At least in PvP, which will be affected by this as there is no WvW exclusive disclaimer on this change it's going to be a universal change.
    snip

    I have to wholeheartedly agree with this in its essence. This is so much of a bandaid "solution" that it hurts. Putting Detection Pulse on Purge Gyro makes no sense in terms of the general utility skill <-> toolbelt skill relaton ship at all. I get that you're responding to the screams of the WvW players here but pushing this on scrapper after the mostly failed rework of the spec is an inadequate punishment. Please think about different ways to add more reveal into the game that don't abuse this class even more than it already has been.

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I'll leave my comment on the class I care about.
    The Tome of Courage nerfs are really bad. Doing this means Firebrand doesn't get Aegis from its F3 at all, KILLING the synergy with Pure of Heart. I'd rather you nerf the trait instead if the synergy there is too strong.
    Killing off synergies from builds kills the fun to be had in buildcrafting. Aegis is honestly the last thing you should be looking at deleting. Get rid of the Stability/Resistance/Protection first if you absolutely must touch anything in ToC. I would go for nerfs to Tome of Resolve instead though.
    And kitten, buff the healing value in GS3 by like 400%. It's pathetic.

  • so where are the holo nerfs? this class at pvp can miss you and knowdown you 3 times in a row 100000 miles away, hitting you for 10k dmg then go inv after that

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    I threw a link to this discussion onto the warrior thread: https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86631/upcomming-potential-warhorn-changes#latest although it was mainly to discuss there the warhorn changes.

    The consensus seems to be ANY changes to warhorn are welcome, however there is much desire to work on the Tactics specialization in general.

    One piece of feedback someone had was that the +120 concentration on Quickbreathing is lackluster unless you provide more boons for the warrior to distribute to allies. You could make Warhorn heal instead of the +120 Concentration. Another welcome option would be to roll the proposed extra boons into the base skills and keep the CD reduction.

    Another piece of feedback that was agreed upon was that the extra Fury you are proposing isn't needed due to "For Great Justice!" and that either Retaliation or Stability would be more fitting in its place on WH4.

    As far as Tactics Specialization changes, warriors in that thread have brought up consolidating Reviver's Might and Determined Revival and throwing them into a Major Trait. Another needed change would be for Vigorous shouts to raise target cap to 10, and preferably grant 1 adrenaline per ally affected rather than a flat 5 adrenaline. That would be very helpful for Warriors in WvW and help form a strong base for a support role there.

  • Fir.7932Fir.7932 Member ✭✭

    Just please do something about condi thiefs in PvP. Please, please, please I beg you.

  • I'm on my phone and had trouble doing the quote feature. I'm using how another poster format their input.

    Guardian

    Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires: ||>>Good changes

    Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE. ||>>ok fine

    Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis. ||>>This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a class

    Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation. ||>>This is completely out of line and guts the FB as a class

    Would your gameplay change as a result?
    Yes,
    WvW when boon strip and corrupt boon is spammed the assertion that these boons like aegis is null. Squad vs squad gameplay involves peppering the other group with attacks. Aegis is very essential such that groups without support firebrands severly suffer or do not live long.
    PvP I may be ok if these changes occur. Firebrand support isnt required in matches unless you are babysitting midpoint. 5 dps teams seem to have a higher chance of winning anyways.
    Fractals,Dungeons,PvE it seems like in order to implement these proposed changes would end up into PvE real. As someone who has been playing Harrier heal support firebrand for halfway to fractal god, this massively stunts essential attacks to help the party mitigate. I only play firebrand and this would be a giant blow to what I play for 3 to 6 hours daily as.

    Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? ||>>This would worsen the state of the game because firebrand has become a desired and preferred essential party or squad mate for all game modes. Reducing its abilities may cause those of us that use this class to its maximum potential, to become resentful or distraught how this will be a detriment to pve and wvw gameplay participation.

    Are you looking forward to these potential changes? No and to be honest I've been stressing out that the only class I play well is proposed to be reduced in its abilities. I've invested a couple thousands of hours and 4 years into guardian but fell in love with how I'm always needed for people. My firebrand is 4 out of 6 for pvp and wvw legendary armor because I have 100% gameplay utility for all game modes with this spec.

    What are your concerns with this set of changes?
    see above listed reasons, it directly shrinks my pride and joy class if the game. I have 8 chars but I'm not good at anything else. I feel I'm at a good status with my support firebrand gameplay

    What consequences do you expect would come from these changes? players like me that can only dedicate to one character will lose interest in playing the game. Core guardian and dragon hunter are not alternatives I can simply take up after firebrand gets pushed away via these proposed changes.

  • The thief hiding skills need a scaling cooldown. So every time you use the skill within seconds of having just used it, the cooldown gets longer. The perma invisibility that thieves have is presently terrible for the rest of the world.

  • Here is my response to the proposed changes. I play all classes aside mesmer in sPvP and WvW. Sorry for the long post, just wanted to share my thoughts!

    This is all solely from a WvW perspective. I play PvP, but in this post, I don't care about PvP or PvE. Only focus is on WvW.

    Engineer
    * Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Pros to this is we now have a direct counterplay to other sneak gyro comps, makes groups more able to hunt for mesmers and thieves hiding in keeps.
    Cons - Little less pressure for downs. This removes access to a meta zerg scrapper’s access to a poison field. Less poison bolts going out. Not a devastating loss.

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW.

    Pros - Encourages a more responsive type of gameplay. I interpret this change as moving away from a “1-button-to-rule-them-all” kind of gameplay. A replacement for this would be elixir gun’s #3 - Fumigate, which is a burst condi cleanse for 5 people.
    Cons - Adding Detection pulse to this would mean scrappers would have to take it. Detection pulse is too good to leave behind.
    Would gameplay change with this? I don’t believe it would. I think people would still run it because of detection pulse. Solo / small groups would feel a much larger impact from this change, yet again hurting the roaming / havoc players.
    Suggested change - Purge gyro is too good. Moving from 5 condis to 3 condis feels like it would suffer too much. Perhaps 4 pulses would be more appropriate. This would still encourage potential alternatives, such as elixir gun’s #3 and #5, as well as the happy little Elixir C.

    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 seconds in WvW.

    Pros - commanders and other groups would have to be more careful about using their stealth, rather than spamming it every minute.
    Cons - Yeah not much here. Sneak gyro is too good right now

    Overall thoughts on engineer - Scrapper is too good right now. 100% meta for any comp, small havoc, medium squads, and large zergs. It perfectly fits everywhere, and is miles ahead of any other support spec. After these changes, it would still be good but need to play more carefully, as its sustain and utility would be hurt.

    Guardian

    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Pros - BUILD VARIATION! This would make sanctuary much more viable, both offensively and defensively. Putting 3x 20 man sanctuaries in heavy chokes would cause commanders to play more carefully as well as have a place to hold in case of bad positioning.
    Cons - Not much here
    Would game play change? Yes, I would take sanctuary more often. It could be a replacement for hallowed ground, merciful intervention, or contemplation of purity.

    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.

    Pros - Not much here
    Cons - Firebrand’s condition cleanse is very limited. You have the very strong condition cleanses -- mantra of lore, Radiant recovery, and shining river. Other condition cleanses feel sub optimal or so situational that they aren’t worth running. Nerfing this ability would now make Tome of Resolve only have 3 “usable” abilities, #1, #4, and #5.
    Game play changes? I would only use abilities 1, 4, and 5 in firebrand tome 2. I believe this would hurt firebrand (as it is a nerf, lol)
    Suggestion - Consider adding a condition cleanse to Tome of Resolve - Chapter 3: Azure Sun. This would still nerf Radiant Recovery’s ability to have strong condition cleanse and burst healing, but wouldn’t take away from the guardian's ability to provide condition cleanses. This would also make Chapter 3: Azure Sun much more viable in fights, as it's not worth using in any kind of skirmish currently. Limited number of casts -- Only use abilities worth casting.

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.

    Overall good change. Fits better with the ability and provides a little bit more damage when used. Feelsgoodman

    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    I believe this is a good change. Unbroken Lines in INSANE as it currently exists, allowing for a 1 button massive boon overload for your subgroup. Large radius means uncoordinated groups still benefit from this ability as well, so nerfing the boon overload into just a stability overload feels like a fair change.
    Alternative -- Lower the radius instead of removing boons. This would allow for more coordinated groups to be able to have the massive benefit from Unbroken Lines if they stack tighter and play more closely as a team.

    Mesmer

    Yeah I don't play this class, and never intend to.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    I think this is a good change. If Feast of Corruption was just a boon strip, and not boon conversion, this change would be unwarranted. But this isn’t the case. In an ideal situation, a necro can hit 1 button, and put 15 random conditions on 5 enemies. That is a lot of pressure, as stability converts to fear, a pseudo stun. Lowering the boons converted would make this a more balanced ability across the board.
    I play a lot of condition scourge in sPvP -- and it feels good already in sPvP. Strong, but not insane.

    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW.

    Pro - This takes away from scourge’s ability to be a support and a main dps across all fight sizes.
    Cons - Heal scourge hurts from this. Although heal scourge is off meta for many groups, the nerfs to condition cleanses from Firebrand and Scrapper, players will begin to look for alternatives. Scourge has a large ability to cleanse conditions with a few abilities, and nerfing a heal scourge trait pushes away the possibility of heal scourge being strong in WvW

    Ranger
    * Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.65-0.75 in WvW only.

    I solo roam quite a lot. Taking 2v1 fights is a very fun challenge. Ranger, even after its nerfs, is still outrageously strong. You don’t have to play reactively as ranger. Just mash long range shot and rapid fire with one wolf pack and sick em (even after nerfs) melt minstrel firebrands, warriors, holosmiths, and scrappers. There is little to no response for a 14,000 damage long range shot. You cannot out range it on any class, or even put up a fight against it. It has become a degenerate meta, where zergs of rangers press 3 buttons and score massive amounts of damage.
    I’d like to see this change across ALL longbow skills. It is currently too easy to do incomparable amounts of damage at 1200 - 1900 range.

    Why should I play anything but ranger when I can press 3 buttons and 3 shot any class at a range nobody can compete with? **Degenerate gameplay. **

    Revenant
    * Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Good change. CoR has a very low cooldown, and benefits from other damage traits in rev’s traitlines. This would lower the priority of CoR and encourage other abilities to be used more often.
    (Yay now I get to see a box around the 8k CoR!)

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.

    Good way to deal with stealth. Many commanders rely too heavily on sneak gyro and mass invis, so being able to combat that is always welcomed.

    I am just now starting to play warrior, so I don't know enough about the way the class plays to really comment about the changes.

    Overall thoughts @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 -- Scrapper, firebrand, and scourge are required for group fights, and always have been. Continual small nerfs and tweaks like the ones proposed will slowly push the classes out of their own "Required" tier and become on par with classes not so loved -- Like ele, and most core specs. Ranger is still way overtuned, capable of (nearly) instantly killing every class from an unmatchable range.

    Although I main engineer, holosmith, scrapper, and core condi, it sucks to see engie getting nerfed again, but scrapper is overtuned as it exists right now. Antitoxin runes + purge gyro is a synergy that only requires 1 button to activate. It's changes like these that give me (some) hope that Anet is watching how WvW fights are played out and genuinely want to take away the 1 button beats all mentality from WvW.

    Cheers,
    Dr. Clutch

  • magus.3012magus.3012 Member
    edited September 6, 2019

    So first of all, I'm glad to see a post like this asking for feedback on future skill changes after the last patch. Also, a little of where I'm coming from here: I've been playing since Guild Wars 2 was released, transferred my character name over from Guild Wars 1. I am a PvE player, haaaate PvP and only go into WvW when I want a Gift of Battle and then I'm out. My main is the first character I made when I started.. a scrapper.

    Basically, I'm tired of relearning my chosen character class that I've used since onset because the segregation of 'balance' changes that used to exist between the PvP modes and PvE is eroding. It was something that I loved about Guild Wars that set it apart from the other MMOs and I really wish you would go back to doing it. Short of making everyone use the same class with the same gear and skills PvP will NEVER be balanced and I hate not being able to use the character I've mained since the game came out because people want to get salty when they loose to other people in a game mode that I never touch and have no interest in.

  • appelflap.8310appelflap.8310 Member ✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    The random dazes on chaos storm needs a nerf but pls make it so that we can time the daze. For example: elementalist aura can pop their aura on demand, scourge shades... let mesmers do the same with chaos storm so it can actually be useful (offensive and defensive use).
    A daze on the first strike seems a bit weird for a skill with such a high cooldown and you take away the defensive play of it.

  • Doctor.1384Doctor.1384 Member ✭✭✭

    As long as the cooldown and stun brake on rev gaze of darkness is untouched then any change to that skill is fine, but if the damage and reveal is then used to justify an increase in cooldown, energy cost, or removing the stunbrake then I will lose my marbles.

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? Yes, nail in the coffin to scourge, id go back to playing my reaper in competitive modes.
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game? Worsen.
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? No.
    • What are your concerns with this set of changes? It nerf's the ability to survive in competitive mode and gives me no new ways to survive.
    • What consequences do you expect would come from these changes? People will leave the game.

    With those types of questions in mind here's some of what we're looking at.

    Necromancer

    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. DMG level is fine. There is to much boon span stop giving away our ability to remove boons.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE. DMD level is fine. There is to much boon span stop giving away our ability to remove boons.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP. BAD reduces the scourges ability to support a team fight.
    • Sand Flare: Reduced the barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW. BAD. It already has a cast time that takes to long... I die a lot just casting it. why would I bother taking it if the barrier was reduced. There is to much boom spam

    Without Barriers I’m unable to withstand the Holosmith DPS splat, without Barrie im unable to withstand the Mesmer 100 billion clone barrage, without barrier I can’t withstand the Ranger lock down. Without the barriers I can’t withstand the sit and spin of the reaper. The barrier levels are fine where they are.
    You’ve given players an AOE tell, you’ve reduced the circle radius, you’ve increased cast times… if players can’t tell when a scourge is casting or where the circles is that they need to dodge or move out of, or when to stop attacking then its time for them to learn.

  • Kahrgan.7401Kahrgan.7401 Member ✭✭✭

    Why do we keep adding more and more benefits to single skills? It's why everything feels so unbalanced. Example: Guardian meditation, heals, gives fury, clears a condition, and does an PBAoE dmg.

    Please stop this madness, make the skills do what they do and do it well, stop adding more and more buffs.

    The nuke from orbit approach is how you kill (and have already killed) games.

  • Lazze.9870Lazze.9870 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fengzhou.9853 said:
    I am sad to see the possible change to ranger longbow because already as it is, nobody wants rangers for anything unless they're healing on druid in wvw.

    Nobody really wants that either, they keep butchering druid in all their balance patches, and we're at the point where it's pretty much a PvE only spec.

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