Yet another Mirage thread

I havent seen any "nerf mirage" thread in a while and thats kinda ironically I have to make one :)I would like to say I like suggestions made by @UBcktieDL.5318 in his thread(and @"Tayga.3192")

! https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/84162/some-ideas-for-mirage-balancing#latestWhat I actually want to see and they definitely can make it without too much effort like reworking everything from the scratch:I think they should merge IH into minor grandmaster trait as without it mirage is just... really meh, thats my opinion tho.Anet could make ambushes do VERY POWERFUL attack aka transfer all damage from clones to mesmer and completely gut clone ambush to have 0.1s condition duration. so instead of running around and using evades to let clones do 90% of the damage (condi mirage), you would need to land your own ambush and clone ambush would be a pure imitation. This way you need to avoid real ambush or stop the mesmer from using ambush.What I see problematic now and what could be done if they are completely lazy to actually implement/do/dont like my suggestion above.Pretty important note : While they being busy with ambushes, would be reasonable to buff shatters and its condi application through traits. To encourage active shatter playstyle, not dodge1 all the time and keep clones for maximum ambush value.Staff ambush - very high base value on condition duration. The ambush is kinda okay but the problem is that clones have 100% condi duration from it. Make clone ambush condition duration 50% of original.Scepter ambush - Lets be fair ambush is pretty weak even with clones but I see here the main reason why condi mirage so strong and being hated a lot.Why? It does five hits and procs tons of bleeds through sharper images trait in dueling traitline and the bleeds are pretty long. I'm not seeing this trait as a problem on core/chrono even by a mile, clones attacking very slow with a noticeable delay but his ambush forces them to bombard your opponent with various conditions and proc a lot of bleeds.A great solution would be to change scepter ambush into a single projectile that apply conditions.Scepter 2 - I think it should be 3 torments, not 5. Or split in two conditions - 3 confusion stacks and 3 torment stacks both 4 seconds duation (just random thought :P)Besides the nerfs:Return 3 jaunts on 20s cd - remove damage/confusion stacks entirely.RETURN IP TO CHRONO !1111111Rework GS, scepter.Revert tons of unjustified nerfs.Unnerf potal.

I think I'd be okay with these changes because I've always gravitated towards a more active, less clone-ambush-dependent build/playstyle anyway.

All last season I was running Illusions for better shatters, as I like setting up shatters. Also still running axe, as gutted as it is, because I like its active playstyle.

In keeping with promoting active play, I would really like to see a revert on the nerfs to Jaunt. They can remove the confusion application for all I care. Maybe replace it with blind or something. I just want to feel like I'm allowed to actually use it for short range mobility and cleanse again. The ammo count and recharge nerfs are too much on this supposedly "elite" skill that is pretty much a utility skill and not even in the same league in terms of impact as stuff like Rampage and Dagger Storm.

It's been a while since I saw a good thread. All of them are reasonable changes.

good idea, wont happen. devs prolly gonna gut some more core traits or weapons and call it a day, or somehow manage to make shatters even worse ( how can you even nerf f2? its literarly just 1 stack of confusion xd )

@Leonidrex.5649 said:good idea, wont happen. devs prolly gonna gut some more core traits or weapons and call it a day, or somehow manage to make shatters even worse ( how can you even nerf f2? its literarly just 1 stack of confusion xd )They nerfed F1 shatters damage by 15% with undocumented change.Anet logic is something that I will never understand.Why never listen to people who play the class. Why not even trying to understand what is the reason of all this mess. Why they trashed core many times(always to bring X spec in line instead of DIRECT NERF TO THE ELITE SPEC), realized it did nothing and then nerf elite spec. All this nerfs are just :nolikethis:Chrono was just straight deleted and left dead for 3+ months or even worse, forever.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@Leonidrex.5649 said:good idea, wont happen. devs prolly gonna gut some more core traits or weapons and call it a day, or somehow manage to make shatters even worse ( how can you even nerf f2? its literarly just 1 stack of confusion xd )They nerfed F1 shatters damage by 15% with undocumented change.Anet logic is something that I will never understand.Why never listen to people who play the class. Why not even trying to understand what is the reason of all this mess. Why they trashed core many times(always to bring X spec in line instead of DIRECT NERF TO THE ELITE SPEC), realized it did nothing and then nerf elite spec. All this nerfs are just :nolikethis:Chrono was just straight deleted and left dead for 3+ months or even worse, forever.

They should nerf all or at least most of the core and HoT specs to show PoF supremacy and ensure ppl buy that expansion....wait a second....PS: Not bad Mirage rework suggestions

A good idea. I am all for the active gameplay.Though I'm curious whether Devs decide to do opposite.

A side note: Thi is how the whole Mesmer should be like. The clones should just be an imitation.

IP could be like some necros traits( on scourge they are halved, on reaper and core they remains the same) something like that would be good.

@Catchyfx.5768 said:IP could be like some necros traits( on scourge they are halved, on reaper and core they remains the same) something like that would be good.I dont understand you ... :/

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Catchyfx.5768" said:IP could be like some necros traits( on scourge they are halved, on reaper and core they remains the same) something like that would be good.I dont understand you ... :/

At a guess he means "lesser smite condition" for example

Trait could work littlebit differently if you have mirage traitline equiped. So core and chrono doesnt get crippled only because its super strong on Mirage.Decrease numbers more but only if you are mirage.

@"Catchyfx.5768" said:Trait could work littlebit differently if you have mirage traitline equiped. So core and chrono doesnt get crippled only because its super strong on Mirage.Decrease numbers more but only if you are mirage.Can you actually explain what trait even?IP on MESMER is ILLUSIONARY PERSONA being given baseline and the most important thing in every shatter build being promoted and pushed by Anet. Chrono is an example how bad mesmer without it, its just...dead.What trait you talking about that exist on necromancer... I have no clue. To think about it even scourge has "shade persona" as aoe effect being generated around scourge too when using shroud, imagine now you cant use your F skills without shades up, good "trade off" right ?

1. IH should not be baseline. Mirage Cloak alone is enough baseline power.
2. Transfer clone ambush to Mirage so it deals POWERFUL attacks? Hell no man. Clone ambush damage just needs nerfing in general. End of story.
3. Flat buff Shatter skills? I thought you said this was a nerf thread. I could see transferring clone ambush damage to Shatter skills, but not straight buffs to Shatter. That's ridiculous man.
4. What Mirage needs is simple. Lower the damn ambush damage on clones, and reenable CI with lower immob duration. Fixed.

And on a creative side note, if players want to use Mirage like a minion master, just rework the Shatter skills completely. Remove the Shatter effects and make them different ambush effects.

@praqtos.9035 said:

@"Catchyfx.5768" said:Trait could work littlebit differently if you have mirage traitline equiped. So core and chrono doesnt get crippled only because its super strong on Mirage.Decrease numbers more but only if you are mirage.Can you actually explain what trait even?IP on MESMER is ILLUSIONARY PERSONA being given baseline and the most important thing in every shatter build being promoted and pushed by Anet. Chrono is an example how bad mesmer without it, its just...dead.What trait you talking about that exist on necromancer... I have no clue. To think about it even scourge has "shade persona" as aoe effect being generated around scourge too when using shroud, imagine now you cant use your F skills without shades up, good "trade off" right ?

well my bad...didnt get IP is this trait on chrono..sorry about that.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. IH should not be baseline. Mirage Cloak alone is enough baseline power.Trevor... your knowledge stop right at your own main-ranger, further than that, you are just clueless ...You are like BadMad, just another mesmer hater with all your soul, led by emotions, I pity you.

@"Twilight Tempest.7584" said:I think I'd be okay with these changes because I've always gravitated towards a more active, less clone-ambush-dependent build/playstyle anyway.

All last season I was running Illusions for better shatters, as I like setting up shatters. Also still running axe, as gutted as it is, because I like its active playstyle.

In keeping with promoting active play, I would really like to see a revert on the nerfs to Jaunt. They can remove the confusion application for all I care. Maybe replace it with blind or something. I just want to feel like I'm allowed to actually use it for short range mobility and cleanse again. The ammo count and recharge nerfs are too much on this supposedly "elite" skill that is pretty much a utility skill and not even in the same league in terms of impact as stuff like Rampage and Dagger Storm.

I personally run DPS Axe, and would love to see a revert of Jaunt to 3 charges, but remove condi application for balance.

@Trevor Boyer.6524 said:

1. IH should not be baseline. Mirage Cloak alone is enough baseline power.
2. Transfer clone ambush to Mirage so it deals POWERFUL attacks? Hell no man. Clone ambush damage just needs nerfing in general. End of story.
3. Flat buff Shatter skills? I thought you said this was a nerf thread. I could see transferring clone ambush damage to Shatter skills, but not straight buffs to Shatter. That's ridiculous man.
4. What Mirage needs is simple. Lower the kitten ambush damage on clones, and reenable CI with lower immob duration. Fixed.

And on a creative side note, if players want to use Mirage like a minion master, just rework the Shatter skills completely. Remove the Shatter effects and make them different ambush effects.

1 - you clearly have no clue about mirage, mirage needs IH to have sustain damage, plus mirage design revolves around IH, its the same as your soulbeast can only perform merge F attacks if you spec a specific trait, otherwise you get only bonus stats. Plus by making IH baseline ambush attacks become easier to balance you know ambush attacks without IH are absolute garbage.

2 - you're clueless in regards to mirage, by making clones damage into the mirage himself attacks become easier to evade plus you can only do ambush damage yourself so no more letting your clones do the damage, it's actually a nerf.

3 - couldn't care less.

4 - stop commenting if you have no idea what you're talking about, kitten qq warrior.

To OP: you know my opinion on nerf mirage threads, ANerf will only pay attention to the nerf parts and have mirage nerfed without any compensation whatsoever.

I would be worried about the "trade-off" that mirage is going to get.

@Lincolnbeard.1735 said:To OP: you know my opinion on nerf mirage threads, ANerf will only pay attention to the nerf parts and have mirage nerfed without any compensation whatsoever.I do, I know mesmer mains propose nerfs and anet takes the worst ones.I tried to suggest the best solution I came up with.At this point even if they ruin it completely, it doesnt matter, they alrdy killed my the only hope to NOT being forced into mirage.p.s I'm even surprised people actually like it

@Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

@Twilight Tempest.7584 said:I personally run DPS Axe, and would love to see a revert of Jaunt to 3 charges, but remove condi application for balance.Somehow forgot about it. I will add it as well :)

Ever since ci was taken out of the game mirage has been far easier to manage. I would think that at this point anyone calling mirage OP just needs to learn how to fight it. Hopefully whatever they give mesmers in place of ci is useful for mesmer players and not just another unused trait as anet tends to give.

@"Crab Fear.1624" said:I would be worried about the "trade-off" that mirage is going to get.

I think many of us are.

Still waiting on Holo, Firebrand, Spellbreaker, and Soulbeast "trade-offs" though. Nothing but vertical upgrades there.

Aww don't yell at Trevor guys. Whether we agree with his suggestions or not, I do think he tries to take a pretty holistic approach to the PvP issues in this game.

@"Trevor Boyer.6524" said:

1. IH should not be baseline. Mirage Cloak alone is enough baseline power.
2. Transfer clone ambush to Mirage so it deals POWERFUL attacks? Hell no man. Clone ambush damage just needs nerfing in general. End of story.
3. Flat buff Shatter skills? I thought you said this was a nerf thread. I could see transferring clone ambush damage to Shatter skills, but not straight buffs to Shatter. That's ridiculous man.
4. What Mirage needs is simple. Lower the kitten ambush damage on clones, and reenable CI with lower immob duration. Fixed.

And on a creative side note, if players want to use Mirage like a minion master, just rework the Shatter skills completely. Remove the Shatter effects and make them different ambush effects.

1. Mirage Cloak only functions as DPS because of IH. IH is so essential to MC damage output it's an obligatory pick and may as well be baked into the elite mechanic. Unless...
2. Clone damage is transferred to the Mirage player, in which case IH is no longer a must-have. Still nice for a bit of clone preservation through evades and the ultimate mimicry in keeping with the Mirage design theme, but not mandatory.
3. I have little doubt Mirage will see overall nerfs to Shatters as "trade-offs" just like Chrono.
4. As a duelist, Mirage needs kill-potential. Just like Holo, Warriors, Soulbeast, and Weaver. Its damage has been repeatedly nerfed on almost every weapon and on many skills. Need we recall certain massive nerfs of 50% or more? CI with any immob is all but guaranteed to renew complaints. I don't see that happening. They should remove the immob or replace CI entirely.

I am not a Mesmer player so I can't really say I have much experience-based insight, but from an outsider's perspective I wouldn't mind having IH become baseline and having the damage frontloaded on the player, but I'd say my least favorite thing about IH is the visual noise. Wouldn't mind if that was brought down a bit.

I also don't think that the dodge while CC'd should be a thing, as has been mentioned many times by others. Reimplement the superspeed and move dodge while CC'd to EM, remove the stunbreak and the exhaustion. Maybe have it increase overall superspeed duration by 33% or something too. These are just ideas from a non-Mesmer player.

Not really sure what would replace IH.

I still want to see IH damage from the clones shifted to the mesmer, mesmer ambush does laughable damage but with bunch of clones its becomes too much. Consider changing on the ambush skills I mentioned.

! I'm actually surprised a lot of people dont understand that synergy between multiple hitting scepter and bleed on crit trait is too strong and staff ambush has 100% duration on the clones but real mesmer ambushes are too weak.Its pretty much stupid that condi mirage can just forget about his own ambush and let clones do the job.