New Aquatic Fractal - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

New Aquatic Fractal

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  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 23, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Since I somehow doubt the Jellyfish, including adds, has 100 million HP (2-5 times the amount of a 10 man Raid boss) or more, you must be doing something drastically wrong build wise then.

    Less buffs, less average base class damage (because underwated builds for the most part - barring maybe rangers - aren't as efficient), only 5 players.

    Neither FB nor Renegade are affected in their boon output underwater, at least not with little tweaks, so you will have the same buffs.
    Soulbeast, Weaver, Tempest, cFB etc. all hit 25-30k DPS fairly easily underwater, with Reaper, Scourge, DH etc. being able to easily reach 20-25k. I'm fairly sure others can too, although I haven't tested/seen those yet.

    Even if you run 2 supports doing 0 DPS and 3 sub optimal DPS specs, 20 minutes would yield you 80-100 million group DPS.
    I couldn't find the boss HP listed anywhere, but I'm guessing it's below 10 million, which makes 2-3 minutes for the boss section a lot more realistic.

    Aquatic is never going to be 100CM quality purely by being underwater and if you want to hate on anything new that's fine I suppose. But people will clear this Fractal like any other in sub 8 minutes and be fine if they just try. There is just more to keep in mind now and it's not going to be 2 minutes anymore, which is more than fair.

    Fact is both Molten Boss back in the day and up until now Aquatic were way too short and people made 100g+/h farming them. Some more "HP to chew through" to bring them in line with other Fractals isn't unjustified, and I'm not sure what mechanical marvel people were expecting underwater.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Saracen.2691Saracen.2691 Member ✭✭
    edited August 23, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:

    Neither FB nor Renegade are affected in their boon output underwater, at least not with little tweaks, so you will have the same buffs.
    Soulbeast, Weaver, Tempest, cFB etc. all hit 25-30k DPS fairly easily underwater, with Reaper, Scourge, DH etc. being able to easily reach 20-25k. I'm fairly sure others can too, although I haven't tested/seen those yet.

    This is discounting the fact that underwater your means of gauging positioning and ability range are severely diminished. It's not just a matter of depth perception hampered by a lack of anything to compare against, anything AoE based is lamed when you can't see its radius defined anymore.

    @Asum.4960 said:

    I'm not sure what mechanical marvel people were expecting underwater.

    That's just it though. There isn't any, underwater content is a dead-end neglected meaningfully since launch which makes this change all the more boggling. Aquatic should have been a fractal to be phased out the moment they ran out of duplicate slots, not something made longer without any worthwhile mechanical change or engaging challenge to the player. Tossing more HP, less ways to mitigate it and invulnerability phases into a fractal because there's nothing else you can do to make underwater combat mechanically interesting isn't a decent excuse or a feat to be lauded - it's grounds for demonstrating the concept is flawed to its very core.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    the first visible significant dip in population happened

    I don't see any data to support the theory that there has been a dip in fractal population that exceeds that of the game's (expected) decline in population.

    I definitely know people who stopped playing fractals because they don't like the instabilities and because they feel fractals are too challenging. I also know people who started because they do like the difficulty.

    It's definitely a plausible hypothesis; I just don't think there's enough evidence for us players to use it in discussing which changes would benefit (or harm) the game mode. Fractals are designed to appeal to a minority of players

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • I don't see evidence that people need to substantially regear for this fractal. Masterwork breather and exotic weapons are fine, given that L76 has lower AR requirements. The bigger issue is that people aren't used to underwater combat, so folks don't really know which weapon skills to use for boon stripping or condi removal. And, because the blacklist of disallowed underwater skills seems arbitrary, people don't really know which skills or traits to swap.

    Sure, those issues would be removed if ANet did another revamp of aquatic combat. And equally, those issues would become moot if ANet axed the fractal for another land-based one. All the same, it's not ANet's fault if some of us think underwater is (ahem) beneath our notice.

    Plus, until there are 25 unique fractals, I'd prefer to keep all the ones we have in the rotation. After the 25th (due in AD 2047), then sure, a 26th could replace one of the less interesting ones.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • Eramonster.2718Eramonster.2718 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2019

    This fight just shows how unpolished underwater combat is right now. Things might have worked back in core but things just evolved over time and now can only hope something can be done for it to catch up.
    Eg. Firebrand aegis or skills procs stuff upon use, players have more weapons on land to work on to synergize with their traits. The current underwater weapons are severely lacking and limiting options. But to be fair, there are no Elite Professions back then and how the traits and builds will be played/discovered by players.

    Related in some way is how the underwater weapons work (the damage). Eg. For a power build; Reaper's underwater spear(power) is underwhelming and trident(condi) as alternative for power is worse. Dragonhunter/ Firebrand's underwater weapons as DPS class is not performing either. Power warrior are "functioning" but there are no options for condi. And the list goes on, with no options or severely limited for all class professions.
    I know there are players hype asking for Underwater Cantha, imo the game is not ready for it yet.

    As for Fractals, the change for Aquatic Ruins is still new, players need time to learn and relearn new stuff. Not sure how some instabilities will play out either, will Adrenaline Rush/ Frailty make Jellyfish Boss's devour skill a sure kill move :) etc.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 24, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:
    Challenging or not, hard or easy, annoying or superannoying... all that doesn't really matter when you are talking of a SINGLE FIGHT that takes 20 minutes of spam combat. Too many phases, too many HP.

    Again, that's not a problem with the Fractal, but the lack of proper builds/gear.
    The Jellyfish really shouldn't take more than 2-5 minutes on T4 still, or there is something wrong on your groups end.

    Again, it takes 20 minutes for a regular pug in regular gear (in my case, full ascended).

    Since I somehow doubt the Jellyfish, including adds, has 100 million HP (2-5 times the amount of a 10 man Raid boss) or more, you must be doing something drastically wrong build wise then.
    Otherwise that's just not possible, probably even if just autoattacking.

    Have you already done that fractal? You spend most of the time stunned, caged in bubbles or in the boss trap, trying to move from here to there, trying to remove condi spam, helping downed, and yes, autoattacking, bacause of the new annoying mechanics.

  • JTGuevara.9018JTGuevara.9018 Member ✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    For those claiming the new changes are good and makes thing challenging, it doesn't...it makes it DUMBER. See, there's a difference between challenge and...whatever this is. Challenge is when you're pushed to adapt and get better. This....this is just tedious...this doesn't challenge people, it just annoys them. There's just not much you can do underwater: movement is really slow and static and classes don't even have access to some of their skills! Without any sort of fix to underwater, you're pretty much just kneecapping players for no reason!

    Gigantic thumbs down on this change. Aquatic Ruins will now be cemented as the _ WORST_ fractal in the game.

    Actually, this is challenging by your own definition. As people are now required to adapt and get better. You can no longer just spam #1 while watching netflix on the side.
    Now, fractal actually requires your attention, group coordination, proper gear and potential build modification (depending on profession)

    Also, movement isn't slow underwater. As far as I know, almost all professions have some sort of gap closer on their weapon or utility. And you are not even required to move that much for this particular fractal. This fractal is first underwater content that actually will force people to learn their underwater skills instead of just going "12345" while yawning.

    Also, the change to "struggle" while you are consumed by Jellyfish is extra dicey. Now your skill number changes, so this can actually kill you if you are not paying attention. More fractals should have this mechanic, not less

    I give this fractal 22/22 water-skis and a bag of mandarins

    On the contrary, once again, it is NOT challenging, it is tedious and annoying. Adapt all you want, you will still be limited by underwater combat mechanics. That is an unavoidable truth.

    Movement isn't slow underwater? Seriously? It _ is_ in relation to LAND. And you are required to move as quickly as you can because of the smaller quicker jellyfish will outpace you if you don't. Now, this situation could be possibly mitigated by luring the boss into the electric sections, but this was changed that now the big fish doesn't even move from center and the jellyfish aren't killed instantly. You can have all the gap closers you want, but you will constantly be outpaced by the fish. The bubble is And oh yeah...the "struggle", that is the dumbest implementation ever. It's just a pointless guessing game to how to break free, not to mention, an insult to injury on top of all the nonsense you deal with. They took a simple intuitive 'break free' mechanic and made it unnecessarily convoluted.

    To those supporting this, I'm sorry. I will take a dump on this fractal change.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    anyway I see some fail, then 74 aquatic is so hard, that cms party sometimes skip that, or half party leave.
    WE have elites - ok, but why it have 3 less hp ? champs ? ok, but why the so hurt ?
    just feel something not good. If this is was done to prevent some ppl from farm - there is more softly ways.

  • @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    And oh yeah...the "struggle", that is the dumbest implementation ever. It's just a pointless guessing game to how to break free, not to mention, an insult to injury on top of all the nonsense you deal with. They took a simple intuitive 'break free' mechanic and made it unnecessarily convoluted.

    No, you press the one weapon skill that is different from the other four. There is literally no guessing involved. That single boss ability might just be the only thing about the rework that is actually an improvement.

  • Gambino.2109Gambino.2109 Member ✭✭✭

    @Katary.7096 said:

    @JTGuevara.9018 said:
    And oh yeah...the "struggle", that is the dumbest implementation ever. It's just a pointless guessing game to how to break free, not to mention, an insult to injury on top of all the nonsense you deal with. They took a simple intuitive 'break free' mechanic and made it unnecessarily convoluted.

    No, you press the one weapon skill that is different from the other four. There is literally no guessing involved. That single boss ability might just be the only thing about the rework that is actually an improvement.

    Except that you have to do it multiple times... racing against the clock before your life ticks away.. and trust me if you get in there while carrying any previous conditions.. you're not getting out.

  • @lare.5129 said:
    anyway I see some fail, then 74 aquatic is so hard, that cms party sometimes skip that, or half party leave.

    There is no "sometimes" yet, since the new Aquatic has been in the rotation a few weeks. Regardless of how easy|hard or boring|fun, it's new; it's hardly any surprise that it's going to slow people down until any meta strategies are created and wildly known.

    PS Aquatic is L7, 26, 61, and 76. (L74 is Nightmare.)

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • @Gambino.2109 said:
    Except that you have to do it multiple times... racing against the clock before your life ticks away.. and trust me if you get in there while carrying any previous conditions.. you're not getting out.

    No guessing times five is still no guessing. This is not a hill anyone should want to die on.

  • Gambino.2109Gambino.2109 Member ✭✭✭

    @Katary.7096 said:

    @Gambino.2109 said:
    Except that you have to do it multiple times... racing against the clock before your life ticks away.. and trust me if you get in there while carrying any previous conditions.. you're not getting out.

    No guessing times five is still no guessing. This is not a hill anyone should want to die on.

    Good job reading my post addressing the real issue of this mess

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭

    @cryorion.9532 said:
    Some sarcasm ahead:

    Same as other old fractal reworks, 0 fun value, no challenge, just pure, high grade annoyance.

    Mai - just camp on boss, spam heals, spam cc and dps, 0 brain required

    Swampland - 284902489420 mobs to kill with irrelevant champs, super fun and engaging fractal with very challenging mechanics, just stack with group and no need to think

    Molten Boss - just skip to bridge, kill 2 mobs, then rush into corner, kill 28940820974092724 mobs (super fun and engaging - especially those protectors which can protect enemy npcs through walls far away... ugh...), then just kill champ (which is not that bad), kill another 28490824 mobs and then hardest part of whole fractal, kill 2 legendary bosses - oh also there are more adds but they are so irrelevant, I guess it's fun and challenging part for parties where everyone is using soldier gear

    ANet's scheme for old fractal rework: add 4948565971423 trash mobs (and now ones which you can't rally off, mobs that you have to kill since they can catch you up as fast as friendly npcs, mobs that have broken damages and abilities, spam weakness, chill, cripple and other conditions to make things more fun and challenging, right?).
    Add champs that block progress (which is kinda understandable, but like why putting it in every rework now... how original), add phases to final boss to prolong combat duration (would be ok if the combat itself wasn't boring/annoying as hell). In case of Aquatic and Molten Furnace also remove break bars so there is no damage bonus when breakbar is broken.

    Also, notice how instability rework did not solve anything, but added more annoyance instead. The old Social Awkwardness was probably the most annoying and hated instability. Now what? We have like 2-3 more annoying ones instead. Wohooo, super fun!

    Sarcasm turned off now:
    100 and 99 CMs were salvation of FotM. Those CMs are what the peak of endgame repeatable content should look like! It is still fun after all this time (after getting above 1k 100cm kp), it was challenging when doing it like first 20 times. The challenge of course drops when doing certain content so many times, so that is why fun aspect is crucial to keep this repeatable content enjoyable.
    The instabilities rework we got few months ago, was underwhelming, non-creative and resulted in annoyance and unfun of some daily clears. Take for example Frailty, Outflanked, Boon Overload or We Bleed Fire instabilities. Those instabilites do not make things challenging at all. They just force players to use healers in most groups who deal with the negative effects of instabilities. What about positive effects of those instabilities? The positive effects are pretty much useless and they don't contribute anything to fun gameplay. Mists Convergence instability spawns enemies which are really annoying in certain situations (rabbit stripping mistlock singularity, tentacle spamming aoe cc, Mossman throwing axe and making one stuck in combat for longer time, ...), but when it spawns ally npc, it is useless... like... completely useless.
    Instabilities need another rework and this time, much more effort and creativity needs to be put into it. Instabilities are very important for especially non-CM fractals, to keep them interesting, enjoyable and fun. Removing instabilities would result in fractals getting boring after a while. However, there should be option to do any fractal without any instability but with no or very little reward after completing it.
    Anyway... please less aids reworks and more fun gameplay :)

    Then I must ask you .. Your definition of "fun gameplay" ?

  • Gambino.2109Gambino.2109 Member ✭✭✭

    99 cm was perfectly handled as far as not going to bonkers with annoyances and still punishing enough to not miss dodges or stand where you shouldn't be.

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭

    @yLoon.5289 said:
    My team GG twice and manage to get through Aquatic T4 on the 3rd try.
    The Conditions you get during the Elite Krait phase can be counter with Guardian's Trident4, Shield Avenger, Sanctuary. It is the floating "black hand" that gives you the condition. Hence, any projectile absorb will neutralize the threat I think xD.
    Conditions cleansing skills are great for that phase too.
    The new aquatic fractal is quite enjoyable for me. Kudos to arena developers.

    Or you can just bring a support FB to spam F3-skill 4 to pulse resistance, resistance also last longer when afflicted is active. You dont have to try to cleanse them since during elite krait phase time, there's no way to avoid getting hit by boss

  • @Gambino.2109 said:
    Good job reading my post addressing the real issue of this mess

    I am glad you like it. It is always tragic when people misunderstand mechanics and end up getting the wrong impression of an encounter. And of course I wouldn't want people who read this thread before playing the fractal to go in with misinformation.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @lare.5129 said:
    anyway I see some fail, then 74 aquatic is so hard, that cms party sometimes skip that, or half party leave.

    There is no "sometimes" yet, since the new Aquatic has been in the rotation a few weeks.

    it was, 100%. Ant how I remember it was on t3 rec. It was totally fail and sadness.

  • cryorion.9532cryorion.9532 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    Then I must ask you .. Your definition of "fun gameplay" ?

    Fun gameplay is something that doesn't have its difficulty "increased" by adding annoying, frustrating and/or lazy designs. Also, fun gameplay doesn't necessarily have to be challenging to be enjoyable.
    Shattered Observatory and Nightmare fractals (their CMs) are great examples of challenging and fun gameplay content with well done mechanics. Those are highest quality fractals we probably won't get anymore, which is disheartening.
    That is also why instabilities are important to bring breath of fresh air into older, especially non-cm fractals. Current instabilities, however, are far from that.

  • Acquatics looks really fine, finally is becoming difficult.
    The best way is to kill it (imo) is kill the small jellifish before the boss and kill krayts when needed. Any other suggestions?

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭

    @iMythology.3890 said:
    Acquatics looks really fine, finally is becoming difficult.
    The best way is to kill it (imo) is kill the small jellifish before the boss and kill krayts when needed. Any other suggestions?

    Difficult?? It is not difficult at all. It simply is incredibly annoying and extraordinarily, painfully long

  • If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

    That's ridiculous. Also there is a major distinction between whether you should think about composition (which imo you should always for endgame content) or if you must think of a very specific composition in order to beat the content at a reasonable pace, or even at all.

    Although, even if you want to adhere to that personal rule, Aquatic fully complies with it and no reasonable standard comp should struggle to clear the Fractal in a time that is in line with other normal mode Fractals.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • Hyper Cutter.9376Hyper Cutter.9376 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Now, fractal actually requires your attention, group coordination, proper gear and potential build modification (depending on profession)

    Why should anyone invest in this crappy underwater gear just for ONE fractal encounter ??????????????????????????
    TF underwater kitten is doing in "high end" pve content ? Had enough of this in pve/story.
    Inb4 they make underwater expansion and raid bosses, LOL.

    Good! People have been allowed to be lazy with their underwater gear for far too long.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭
    edited August 27, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

    That's ridiculous. Also there is a major distinction between whether you should think about composition (which imo you should always for endgame content) or if you must think of a very specific composition in order to beat the content at a reasonable pace, or even at all.

    Although, even if you want to adhere to that personal rule, Aquatic fully complies with it and no reasonable standard comp should struggle to clear the Fractal in a time that is in line with other normal mode Fractals.

    And here we go, "reasonable standard comp" in NORMAL mode fractals, without any additional rewards or anything. This is exactly what is called "overtuned", the very definition of it - when you should apply something developed for challenging content (hard content or just speedclear) just to clear normal one in normal pace.

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Rednik.3809 said:
    If you EVER should think about group composition to just do non-CM fractal - then that fractal is made wrong and should be nerfed right away. There is no exceptions from this rule.

    That's ridiculous. Also there is a major distinction between whether you should think about composition (which imo you should always for endgame content) or if you must think of a very specific composition in order to beat the content at a reasonable pace, or even at all.

    Although, even if you want to adhere to that personal rule, Aquatic fully complies with it and no reasonable standard comp should struggle to clear the Fractal in a time that is in line with other normal mode Fractals.

    And here we go, "reasonable standard comp" in NORMAL mode fractals, without any additional rewards or anything. This is exactly what is called "overtuned", the very definition of it - when you should apply something developed for challenging content (hard content or just speedclear) just to clear normal one in normal pace.

    I'm not sure what you are talking about here.
    Any reasonable standard comp that clears all other normal Fractals in under 10 minutes will clear Aquatic in under 10 minutes, given the same quality of gear and understanding of skills and mechanics in Underwater. Not sure how that is the definition of overtuned.

    Pre rework Aquatic was drastically undertuned, problematically so. Now it's in line with other Fractals.

    "As you know, those who you once called friends have become enemies." ~Glint

  • GWMO.4785GWMO.4785 Member ✭✭✭

    @Asum.4960 said:
    Any reasonable standard comp that clears all other normal Fractals in under 10 minutes will clear Aquatic in under 10 minutes, given the same quality of gear and understanding of skills and mechanics in Underwater. Not sure how that is the definition of overtuned.

    Not quite. As not all skills are available underwater. Rendering some or many builds less effective. if not useless.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Asum.4960 said:
    It feels like an actual Fractal now and once people adjust and come prepared with a somewhat decent underwater build to swap to, it's really not bad.

    I keep hearing that every time there's a change to a fractal. And in the end what happens is always one of two things:
    if the difficulty remains the same, but the fractal just requires slightly different changes to the strategy, players do adjust, and eventually everything works exactly as before. No meaningful change happens.
    If the new version actually requires more effort/commitments, players do not adjust. Some of them just start skipping on that fractal from now on (and i don;t mean people dropping to a lower fractal tier - most of them actually just don't bother to do the fractal at all anymore). Average skill level of players doing it rises, but only because the least skilled ones are removed from the equation. Not because players got more skilled, because the improvement curve of each individual player remains unchanged - they keep improving at exactly the same rate they improved when the older version was present.

    So, the end result is just a reduced population of players doing the content. But hey, at least it "feels like an actual fractal now".

    What alternative do you propose? Every fractal is swim/walk to a boss and then use random skills you didn't even bother to read what they do and comfortably beat the encounter on the highest difficulty available?

    No, balancing to average difficulty (and not insisting on everything being exactly the same) would have been perfectly fine. It's okay of some fractals are a bit easier, just as it is okay that some are a bit harder. Instead, Anet prefers to balance up now, both on the difficulty and completion length scale. Remember, when each fractal was supposed to be a relatively short experience? I do, but Anet seems to have forgotten.
    If you want harder difficulty content there, that's what CMs are for.

    Also, not touching Underwater fractal until after you've polished underwater combat and made it something more finished than an early beta would probably be another great idea.

    When you change content that way, all you achieve is sending a message to all people that were fine with it up until now, but are no longer fine after the change. The message is "we don't want you there". That's not a good message to send to your players.

    Then we maybe have population, for a time, but just like story and open world no actual enjoyable and engaging content to play with.

    If people don't actually want to play the game and just get loot for menial tasks that just require time as opposed to effort, then what is the point of playing? And what do you do once you got the shinies you want if the content is just mind numbing easy and unenjoyable in of itself?

    I didn't consider it unenjoying. It started being that way only after Anet started messing with difficulty levels.

    At least the people who still play after those Fractals are made more interesting and engaging are there to play and improve.

    And i am sure it will be more interesting and engaging for them up until the point Anet abandons fractals due to population getting too low to bother. And only then the screams will start, and everyone will be surprised.

    In this case specifically, the Instabilities were causing more trouble than anything else and I gladly take a bet that most groups who struggled with it today didn't bring boon rip and condi cleanses for NPNG, Vengeance and Afflicted. That wasn't even the fractal being too difficult, just people refusing to bring appropriate tools.

    Well, yeah, instabilities are another problem that should be addressed. They originally were meant to offer some slight variations to fractal runs, in order to shake things up and make them more interesting. Instead those are something that has almost no impact on the top 10% of fractal runners (as those groups can pretty much ignore them). on the other hand, for average (and below average) groups, there are some instabilities that can easily turn an usual smooth run into a complete nightmare. Afflicted is near the top of that list on any fractal with more than just a few enemies.

    Like before, they are another case of Anet forgetting the community doesn't consist of only highly skilled players.

    Your are right . I did run the Aquatic Fractal twice the first time it was no problem whatsoever we saw it understood it and done it . The second time we had no pain no gain and I don't know what also I was this time the only one with a ascended underwater weapon and a rota for it means I don't saw the end for this run. Maybe a bit tweaking people learn it and get some equip and this works. and maybe some instabilities are really bad in this fractal

    On the other hand Siren Reef is the prototype you mentioned I can't get in it with a normal T4 group the difficult of the last boss is too high for them. It is comparable with 99 cm B2 in difficulty while nothing trumps 100 cm Ark on difficulty but this on has the highest amount of simultaneous mechanics we have in the fractals and this isn't even a cm -.- . I don't know what the developers thinking that we troll them ?

    About the length of fractals I know people who wanted them so long or wanted to getting dungeon feeling from them.

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    Aquatic is on my skip list its terrible now

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

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