Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes

2

Comments

  • @Teratus.2859 said:
    I do beleive there are a lot of players in the game that do want to play and enjoy the raids, but they feel they're unwelcome there so they just don't even try anymore.

    Are these players unaware of their numbers? It sounds as if there is a large pool of players who could group up with each other to do what all of them want to do.

  • Glider.5792Glider.5792 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    One of anet employes said that it is work in progress. Will add name if I find it.

    Edit: someone named jonah

    When and where was it said ? Do you have a source ?

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCeFWMeskOJhk8N-SvOFCJXA
    Fractal speed kills, raids, Black Lion Chest Openings, random.

  • @Glider.5792 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    One of anet employes said that it is work in progress. Will add name if I find it.

    Edit: someone named jonah

    When and where was it said ? Do you have a source ?

    It was during ERP stream. I wasnt watching at that moment but my source did

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    I have not seen the stream, but I assure you that raids are not difficult with a few exceptions. You can basically do all current boss encounters within a single day, even within a few hours. The guilds in the stream probably were doing advanced strats and also challenge motes which of course have an increased chance of failure. If you do normal modes and play standard PUG strats the raids are actually ridiculously easy.

    If there is something hard about raids then it is to memorize your DPS rotation and reading up the mechanics for each boss. MOST people could do raids in GW2 if only they were serious enough about it.

    For example yesterday I was raiding from 9 to 12 PM, gaining 14 LI = 14 bosses. With a bit of luck in getting a good squad you can be even faster.

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    We are nearing the end of 2019. We still talk about raids being hard, after all the powercreep?
    And before you all start, no, I dont raid. I did 6 raids with a training group, found out myself that theyre rather easily doable even if youre half good, but real life issues prevent me from doing more (which i would do, trust me). Join a training guild, watch some vids on the class you wanna play, learn an easy rotation to get a half decent dps, and youre good to go. I learnt how to play harrier druid from a YouTube video, when it was meta. Ele as well. Dh too, berserker, you name it. It is easier than it seems.

  • @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

    That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

    That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

    That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

    That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

    Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

    That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

    That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

    Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

    Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

    What they have now does not fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

    That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

    That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

    Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

    Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

    What they have now does not fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

    Agreed completely, but saying these things are easy is not accurate as customers skills are very mixed, I have noticed as i've aged my hand eye coordination has diminished to the point of having no hope of ever keeping up with the twitch skills raids demand.. Also the fact of being Aussie and my ping time being up to a second or more behind Americans that demand instant actions.

    Now i understand my case might fall out of the norm but having a watered down version of raids would very much be a thing i'd be interested in with other like minded customers.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Dante.1508 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    i agree raids should be able to be completed by spamming 1111 just like the rest of the game and open world content. I cant spam 111 while being alt tabbed and clear the content its too hard

    I know you are joking but i personally would love this.. i really hate tedious mechanics.

    That would present literally no challenge whatsoever to the content, though...

    That would be like a boss in Darks Souls not even bothering to attack and just standing there.

    Which is exactly how i enjoy content, i understand others like painful stuff but for me i really like casual gameplay and still get my loots.

    Right, sure, I can fully understand that. However players in your position have plenty of content that fulfills that criteria, even Raids fall into that category. Any of the hardcore raiders in this game can tell you that Raids are silly and pathetically easy, the only challenge seen out of them has been MightyTeapot's Raid event that he held. Players like that however, the hardcore ones, are seemingly ignored in their desire to access harder difficulty Raid or otherwise PvE content.

    What they have now does not fulfill them and they have expressed as much, yet many try to nail them with this "elitist" and "toxic" distinction because other casual players, like yourself, are less inclined to acknowledge their own circumstances. They view Raids as too hard and that the players who Raid most frequently as too toxic purely because there is a degree of expectation and a measure of personal responsibility each player takes into a Raid and they do not want to fulfill that. They use builds that do not keep up with or fulfill what is needed as a part of a Raid group and when told as much they freak out. Granted I won't absolve the individuals who are behaving in a legitimately toxic manner of their actions, but its something born of a give and take back and forth negative dynamic that has developed over years. Both sides have behaved similarly.

    Agreed completely, but saying these things are easy is not accurate as customers skills are very mixed, I have noticed as i've aged my hand eye coordination has diminished to the point of having no hope of ever keeping up with the twitch skills raids demand.. Also the fact of being Aussie and my ping time being up to a second or more behind Americans that demand instant actions.

    Now i understand my case might fall out of the norm but having a watered down version of raids would very much be a thing i'd be interested in with other like minded customers.

    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years. I can understand age dwindling reaction time and other such things, I mean I can't play shooters as well as I used to due to carpal tunnel in both wrists but I still manage more than well enough in things I just won't be competing in any tournaments or for that matter placing like...Diamond in R6 Siege (not that I'd want to). Doesn't deter from the facts here, though. The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I'm all for accessibility for content and other things, ANet just seems like they are being weird about it. Especially since if they are concerned about player accessibility in the game...where are the Colorblind settings? Maybe I'm just being bias because I am colorblind (Deuteranopia/Deuteranomly) and this 7 year old game hasn't added those settings yet.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

    Their skill level and unwillingness to raise it with people of likeminded level.

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

    Their skill level and unwillingness to raise it with people of likeminded level.

    To be fair that has been kind of the main thing I've pulled from this. Most of what I've seen as the "main" point why people don't do Raids is that they believe Raiders are toxic and elitist, if only because they ask those who join them to use certain builds.

    This isn't an unreasonable thing, at least not in my mind, as the builds that have been developed for Raids were developed that way for a reason and provide the most benefit to the entirety of the group for the role that the build is designed for.

    So say someone tries to roll into a Raid group with some Minstrel Banner Warrior as support and heals.
    1. That would be taking up a spot for an actual healer/support build like Firebrand or Druid that does that much better.
    2. You would be hindering the overall DPS of the group as you are not properly built to fill the role that a Warrior fills in a Raid.

    This is why people get frustrated. On both sides. Someone wants to do Raids but doesn't take mere moments out of their time to see what builds are wanted and helpful overall in a Raid, and so the Raid players whom want to actually be able to clear the Raid or maybe even teach others so they can get more in depth with Raids are needed to walk them through, or attempt to, setting up an appropriate build. However it seems like often they are met with backlash for doing so and are branded "elitists" for it as well.

    I'm not saying there aren't people on the "hardcore raider" side of this that aren't being toxic towards people, but again its a give and take relationship that has spiraled into the apparent division we see today. In fact this whole thing might have started with two people, one on both sides, having been responsible; Some "casual" newbie to Raids bringing a build that isn't very helpful in a Raid getting angry that they can't use the build that they wanted to use then getting attacked and insulted and harassed by the "hardcore" raid player. Both likely acted in a toxic way, had a bad experience, relayed this experience to others, those others then took that one story made an assumption and went into future interactions with that assumption in mind and created even more of those kinds of toxic interactions and here we are today.

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

    Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they think they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

    It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

    Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

    Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they think they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

    It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

    Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

    Raiders not counting myself here since I did em later.
    Did make it easier they did it with zero exp no guides or builds known that they them made free to use for all instead of hoarding that knowlage so yes they made it easier for new raiders to do raids me included.
    Those training guilds your talking about guess what they got raiders in them aswell doing what you accuse them of not doing helping new people learn to raid.
    When they train people they arent strikt, but if they want to clear they dont want clueless people either bud.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would love to have a "normal mode" on raids, with a difficulty level similar to the current dungeons and the lower-tier fractals.
    Then the current raid difficulty can become 'hard mode' and the current challenge mode 'nightmare mode'.
    Rewards should scale up with the difficulty level. Current rewards move on to hard mode. Lower rewards for normal mode. Challenge mode rewards for nightmare mode.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

    Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they think they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

    It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

    Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

    You dont understand that this is game and so it is about fun.
    Player is having fun -> player plays
    Player is not having fun -> player plays something else

    This is not about improving the game or stuff like that. It is about having fun. Most raiders are having fun when they work as a team and smoothly kill bosses. They are not having fun when they have to carry players that dont want to contribure the same. There woukd be bo requirements if all players that join raids were doing ok job. Sadly 90 percent of gw2 comunity are bad players. Look at meta events with some dps meter and you will see 1-3 players with 15k and rest bellow 4k. That is the diference.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    I don't quite understand what you mean by that. How is the accessibility a problem? There are guilds that do Raids, there is the LFG tool. What exactly is keeping seemingly many players from accessing Raids?

    What's keeping many players from accessing Raids is their desire to get carried by other players, like they do in the open world but don't "see" it.

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    My wvw guild has cleared more than half of the raids in less than a month with most having no exp... No they are not too hard literally l2p

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • KryTiKaL.3125KryTiKaL.3125 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Henry.5713 said:
    People refusing to give you an easy ride when you can't be bothered with going through gaining experience slowly and teaming up with players on a similar level does not make them toxic.

    Literally the history of humanity would like to disagree with you there. The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time. Raiders seem to suffer from "I've got mine" syndrome and simply want everyone else to suffer as they think they did, despite having a larger player pool available to them at the time. Raiders have successfully locked the doors on raiding content and made content meant to be available to everyone inaccessible. Hence, toxic.

    It's ingenious too, since you have the front of 'training guilds' bearing all the effort and publically looking like philanthropists helping the community, while the pug raiders can be as selfish as they want and keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out, get their free easy clears every week, and never lift a finger to make the game better overall.

    Unfortunately the genuine training guilds (wherever they are?) need to go as well, because they're complicit in helping a system that is shown to be unhealthy for the game. It's the same idea that the janitor on the Death Star is just as guilty as everyone else.

    While no one is disputing that there are toxic individuals who cause problems, its true for both sides.

    I do have one thing to argue though. What are you talking about with "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out"? Are you referring to someone maybe needing a specific build? Maybe they want a specific class to fill the role of say...healer because with their current setup they have yet to fill that spot? I'm honestly not sure what you're meaning is in saying they "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out". Its already been established that Raid builds are there and are used as they are because they are built to help the Raid as a whole, which is something that I don't view as unreasonable. If that isn't what you're talking about then please elaborate and give an example of these unreasonable requirements that are being asked for.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    While no one is disputing that there are toxic individuals who cause problems, its true for both sides.

    I do have one thing to argue though. What are you talking about with "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out"? Are you referring to someone maybe needing a specific build? Maybe they want a specific class to fill the role of say...healer because with their current setup they have yet to fill that spot? I'm honestly not sure what you're meaning is in saying they "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out". Its already been established that Raid builds are there and are used as they are because they are built to help the Raid as a whole, which is something that I don't view as unreasonable. If that isn't what you're talking about then please elaborate and give an example of these unreasonable requirements that are being asked for.

    On the matter of builds, I don't particularly disagree with either, though I do have concerns with the idea of "Let's just copy and trust snowcrows and be done with it" but that is a completely different argument.

    Simply put, kill proof, LI, and whatever other currencies is a problem, but I've seen everything from requiring an application involving personal information and even behavior requirements up to and even including personality tests. Like I dunno if raiders have just been out of touch so long that they don't know any better but some of these groups that you're requesting people bottleneck into are kinda insane. My last attempt at trying to get into a raiding discord ended with the group deciding that they didn't want to include new members, despite having sat around waiting for a spot for two hours and their run being listed as 'no exp necessary new raiders wanted'.

    Like do yall even look at lfg anymore? It's 90% raid selling, static applications and people asking for 250 proofs.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    Simply put, kill proof, LI, and whatever other currencies is a problem

    There is a way to bypass those, joining a friendly guild/ making friends in a massively multiplayer online game. The requirements exist in pugs and they are there for a reason, so those joining respect the time of others. Nobody owes another player anything.

    The point of people going through hardships was so that future generations could have an easier time.

    And this is what happens with Raids. At least when in my guild we get a member that wants to try Raids, we get them through just fine. The experienced players taking the not-so-experienced ones for a ride, to enjoy the content. It's probably why I haven't done many PoF Raids, since those newcomers to Raids usually want their Legendary Armors so we re-run the old wings til they get them. Training a guild member is an investment, I'll play with them not only now, but in the future too.

    Respect is earned not given, by joining a team you are not supposed to, you disrespect the other players. The requirements exist so people respect the teams they join, if they were mindful of their other players, then requirements wouldn't exist in the first place. I find them to be dumb anyway, but tell me how can you filter the "I want to be carried" people without some form of requirement? If the community was honest, we wouldn't need them, but this community is not, they will find any way and chance they can to fake their way into groups they shouldn't.

    Like do yall even look at lfg anymore? It's 90% raid selling, static applications and people asking for 250 proofs.

    Good. Let's keep puging to what it should be, a means for static groups to fill a few of their slots for fast runs. The more people realize and accept this, the better for Raids as a whole.

  • @bravoart.5308 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:

    While no one is disputing that there are toxic individuals who cause problems, its true for both sides.

    I do have one thing to argue though. What are you talking about with "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out"? Are you referring to someone maybe needing a specific build? Maybe they want a specific class to fill the role of say...healer because with their current setup they have yet to fill that spot? I'm honestly not sure what you're meaning is in saying they "keep asking for whatever requirements they want to keep people out". Its already been established that Raid builds are there and are used as they are because they are built to help the Raid as a whole, which is something that I don't view as unreasonable. If that isn't what you're talking about then please elaborate and give an example of these unreasonable requirements that are being asked for.

    On the matter of builds, I don't particularly disagree with either, though I do have concerns with the idea of "Let's just copy and trust snowcrows and be done with it" but that is a completely different argument.

    Simply put, kill proof, LI, and whatever other currencies is a problem, but I've seen everything from requiring an application involving personal information and even behavior requirements up to and even including personality tests. Like I dunno if raiders have just been out of touch so long that they don't know any better but some of these groups that you're requesting people bottleneck into are kinda insane. My last attempt at trying to get into a raiding discord ended with the group deciding that they didn't want to include new members, despite having sat around waiting for a spot for two hours and their run being listed as 'no exp necessary new raiders wanted'.

    Like do yall even look at lfg anymore? It's 90% raid selling, static applications and people asking for 250 proofs.

    Yeah thats a definite issue with some in the raiding community. I'd argue that they are the ones I have been referring to as toxic on the "hardcore" side of the line.

    Joining a guild, a friendly one, can definitely alleviate some of that as an issue but ultimately I think the whole situation has spiraled to such a degree that these requirements you're seeing have cropped up because of the divisive enivonrment between the "casual" and the "hardcore" in GW2.

    As for using Snowcrows, Metabattle also has builds that give a basis of an idea as to what should be used in Raids, Snowcrows is just a more hands on approach by players showing other players their Raid comps and builds that they have more specialized to their experience with Raids. META, in any game, is discovered and experimented upon by the players. Always has been, always will be. The developer essentially just reacts to what players create and tweak, so really people on GW2 do need to come to an understanding that other players can, will and already have discovered builds that are tailored made for and function best in particular pieces of content. Raids especially. Same goes for skill rotations.

    So speaking in a broad generalization, not targeting you specifically at all; Just because you made a build doesn't mean that your build is going to function best in a particular piece of content just because its yours.

    Little anecdote, not PvE related by context related;
    Ran into someone in WvW, I struck up a conversation with them, they were complaining about a Deadeye teleporting and its mobility, thinking it was hacking. I had to explain to them that it was literally just a skill they have but yes it was silly. They then started talking to me about builds and described their build as "Support Reaper" which just...sounds strange but okay sure. I then watched him get completely rolled over by another player, he then complained more and I tried to suggest that he go to metabattle and try to find something that might better suit Reaper if he wants to play Reaper or support if he wanted to play support (essentially Scourge). He proceeded to spew out this nonsense of "I'm not a robot" and "I won't be a metaslave" and "I know better". To the latter part...clearly not considering he was essentially just fodder whenever enemy players showed up and his "support" wasn't even supporting...because he was using Reaper.

    Point being, I have seen this a lot on GW2 and its very frustrating to deal with because the moment these individuals are faced with the reality that their build isn't quite up to par, or they themselves don't play as well as they maybe thought, and then the mere mention of "META" and off they go with the vitriol.

    So there are problems on both sides. Big ones. Some of it even boils down to just...fat heads needing to be removed from thine posteriors, but its not that easy of a fix sadly.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @TheQuickFox.3826 said:
    I would love to have a "normal mode" on raids, with a difficulty level similar to the current dungeons and the lower-tier fractals.
    Then the current raid difficulty can become 'hard mode' and the current challenge mode 'nightmare mode'.
    Rewards should scale up with the difficulty level. Current rewards move on to hard mode. Lower rewards for normal mode. Challenge mode rewards for nightmare mode.

    If they plant difficulty modes in raids, I'd rather have the current one be "normal", while adding an "easy" mode on par or slightly above what strikes are supposed to become.
    The current elitist raiders should get a new "hard" mode, too.

  • @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    META, in any game, is discovered and experimented upon by the players. Always has been, always will be. The developer essentially just reacts to what players create and tweak, so really people on GW2 do need to come to an understanding that other players can, will and already have discovered builds that are tailored made for and function best in particular pieces of content. Raids especially. Same goes for skill rotations.

    So speaking in a broad generalization, not targeting you specifically at all; Just because you made a build doesn't mean that your build is going to function best in a particular piece of content just because its yours.

    I put forth the question. If you don't want players to go into content with nonmeta builds, how are people to discover new meta builds? A big part of discovery is trial and error. Not everyone has access to guilds and friends in game, and even more of us don't have access to raids at all. a training golem can only give so much data.

    I've made meta builds in games before, but GW2 is just so.... I've never seen a game in which every player assumes everybody else is trash. It's shocking and depressing.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    META, in any game, is discovered and experimented upon by the players. Always has been, always will be. The developer essentially just reacts to what players create and tweak, so really people on GW2 do need to come to an understanding that other players can, will and already have discovered builds that are tailored made for and function best in particular pieces of content. Raids especially. Same goes for skill rotations.

    So speaking in a broad generalization, not targeting you specifically at all; Just because you made a build doesn't mean that your build is going to function best in a particular piece of content just because its yours.

    I put forth the question. If you don't want players to go into content with nonmeta builds, how are people to discover new meta builds? A big part of discovery is trial and error. Not everyone has access to guilds and friends in game, and even more of us don't have access to raids at all. a training golem can only give so much data.

    I've made meta builds in games before, but GW2 is just so.... I've never seen a game in which every player assumes everybody else is trash. It's shocking and depressing.

    You seem oblivous to how much work and testing goes into builds on the top end. Nearly none of the meta builds were discovered by accident or in raid content.

    Here is the process of working on a meta build:

    • a balance patch hits with noted changes
    • a theory of how a build might work is setup
    • the player/players (there is actually multiple players all trying stuff out all the time) now goes to the training golem and spends literally hours trying out different runes, sigils, traits, weapons, rotations
    • once he has a high performing build, he will share it (or test it in live raid encounters first, then share it)
    • once the build is tested on raid encounters, it is ranked in how useful it is

    Most top end raiders raid daily, for multiple hours, on bosses which they killed in 3 hours on monday. For example: Lucky Noobs trained for a minimum of 3 weeks of 6-8 hours per day with increasing amount of time spent for the ERP3.

    If you have created a meta build, go to the golem and give it a spin. Share your findings with others and let them test your build. It's not that hard. If you assume though that your genious will discover something new or better while randomly stumbling into an encounter, when others have literally spent hundreds of hours on your class testing and experimenting with builds, you are wrong.

  • @bravoart.5308 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    META, in any game, is discovered and experimented upon by the players. Always has been, always will be. The developer essentially just reacts to what players create and tweak, so really people on GW2 do need to come to an understanding that other players can, will and already have discovered builds that are tailored made for and function best in particular pieces of content. Raids especially. Same goes for skill rotations.

    So speaking in a broad generalization, not targeting you specifically at all; Just because you made a build doesn't mean that your build is going to function best in a particular piece of content just because its yours.

    I put forth the question. If you don't want players to go into content with nonmeta builds, how are people to discover new meta builds? A big part of discovery is trial and error. Not everyone has access to guilds and friends in game, and even more of us don't have access to raids at all. a training golem can only give so much data.

    I've made meta builds in games before, but GW2 is just so.... I've never seen a game in which every player assumes everybody else is trash. It's shocking and depressing.

    Basically what @Cyninja.2954 said.

    META builds get tested repeatedly, over hours and hours and get tweaked and modified based on if improvements can be made. The meta really only changes when a balance patch gets dropped onto the game, other than that it is kind of rare, especially in PvE, for the meta to take a shift between such patches.

    There is for sure a distinct toxicity in GW2, much more so than I think some people would like to at all believe. However it comes from both sides, don't forget that. Just as you might find people who assume anyone who doesn't use meta is just trash you will find people who don't use meta that find that the ones that do are "robots" or "just using OP builds" or "metaslaves" or some such other excuse or term I've seen thrown around.

    GW2 has just facilitated this divide, not intentionally, just by its design. PvE was disgustingly unchallenging in its first 3 years before HoT. That was one of its main issues, even during a HoT presentation at a venue during a convention someone yelled out a comment about PvE being too easy. I don't quite remember what was specifically said, though, I think it was something along the lines of "PvE is too easy" or something.

    So because of this, because players got by in any and all PvE with such minimal effort and could easily go through content with whatever nonsensical build they came up with, once things like Raids hit which turned out to require more thought and for players to be more on the same page, with meta builds, thats when this thing, at least in my opinion, started boiling up. It changed the dynamic. Those who were willing to accept that they would need to use certain builds, or adapt because of this change were the ones who started on Raids, likely because they already used what was considered meta at the time. Then there were those who weren't willing to accept that, they seemingly didn't understand why the build they made wouldn't cut it for something like Raids when it has worked well, or very well, for them in everything else.

    The latter also already likely had negative experiences with people running meta builds, typically full zerk, in Dungeons and Fractals because that was just how it was at the time and things like bunker builds weren't like how they are today and especially not healing/support builds. They were there, but they weren't meta and the game hardly even facilitated such builds because it was just faster and easier to rip through a dungeon or fractal on pure DPS alone.

    Bit of a wall there but yeah, its just a dynamic that has been born just through how GW2 has "developed" over the years.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    Not everyone has access to guilds and friends in game

    Then you can always focus on the real problem here, how to more easily find an appropriate guild to join. There is currently too little content that allows guild teams to come together, the game needs more of it, and less of "press a button to loot" content.

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    If raids are too difficult for you, you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in a game.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    If raids are too difficult for you, you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in a game.

    "If you don't like the game exactly as it is currently, you're not target demographics for that game" is not a good argument. It only exists to shut down any and every discussion about improving the game - because , once you start using it, it can be used against any possible suggestion and complain.

    For example, we could also say, that "if you think that the last raids aren't difficult enough (or that the raid release schedule is too slow), then you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in this game".

    Funny how that works, right?

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    If raids are too difficult for you, you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in a game.

    "If you don't like the game exactly as it is currently, you're not target demographics for that game" is not a good argument. It only exists to shut down any and every discussion about improving the game - because , once you start using it, it can be used against any possible suggestion and complain.

    For example, we could also say, that "if you think that the last raids aren't difficult enough (or that the raid release schedule is too slow), then you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in this game".

    Funny how that works, right?

    Except that Anet specifically stated that raids were supposed to be the most challenging content in the game? So technically they're not wrong.

    @Crystal Reid.2481 said:
    New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

    We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

    I see a lot of comments about W4 difficulty, so I'll add some notes on that as well. Balance came in later than expected since we had far more bosses and content to test than usual. Are we totally happy with how balance turned out? Yes and no. The Mursaat Overseer base difficulty is too easy, but we were very happy with the CM difficulty. For the next release we'd like to get difficulty tuned more back in line with Spirit Vale. However, some of that original difficulty and magic is hard to re-capture. You never forget your first raid boss kill.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/113984/#Comment_113984

    Also bolded an important part of their post.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    If raids are too difficult for you, you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in a game.

    "If you don't like the game exactly as it is currently, you're not target demographics for that game" is not a good argument. It only exists to shut down any and every discussion about improving the game - because , once you start using it, it can be used against any possible suggestion and complain.

    For example, we could also say, that "if you think that the last raids aren't difficult enough (or that the raid release schedule is too slow), then you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in this game".

    Funny how that works, right?

    Except that Anet specifically stated that raids were supposed to be the most challenging content in the game? So technically they're not wrong.

    They stated that raids were supposed to be the most challenging content in the game, and they are. They never stated they wanted them to be more challenging that they are now however, did they? (And obviously they didn't want that, or they would make them to be more challenging). So, if you think raids aren't difficult enough, you are as much not a part of target demographics as if you thought they are too difficult. It works both ways equally.

    @Crystal Reid.2481 said:
    New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

    We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

    I see a lot of comments about W4 difficulty, so I'll add some notes on that as well. Balance came in later than expected since we had far more bosses and content to test than usual. Are we totally happy with how balance turned out? Yes and no. The Mursaat Overseer base difficulty is too easy, but we were very happy with the CM difficulty. For the next release we'd like to get difficulty tuned more back in line with Spirit Vale. However, some of that original difficulty and magic is hard to re-capture. You never forget your first raid boss kill.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/113984/#Comment_113984

    Also bolded an important part of their post.

    Notice, they said that the only w4 difficulty they were unhappy with was MO. Cairn and Samarog were thus obviously completely fine. They also said, that the future difficulty they meant to aim for was Spirit Vale, which should mean w5 difficulty that some raiders so like was probably harder than intended. And wouldnt that also mean that W6, W7 are exactly the difficulty they were shooting for?

    So, apparently, like i said, if some people say that the raids should be harder, they are "not part of a target raid demographics".

    Notice also, that i already said i consider (and always considered) this kind of argument to be pure kitten, for exactly that reason. Imo both arguments are equally valid, and it's up to Anet to decide if either of them have any value. It's not like they don't shift/expand their target demographics all the time.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Notice also, that i already said i consider (and always considered) this kind of argument to be pure kitten, for exactly that reason. Imo both arguments are equally valid, and it's up to Anet to decide if either of them have any value. It's not like they don't shift/expand their target demographics all the time.

    That post is from the time only MO was considered an open world boss for 10 players. Samarog and Cairn became jokes a bit later when the community became better at running them

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Notice also, that i already said i consider (and always considered) this kind of argument to be pure kitten, for exactly that reason. Imo both arguments are equally valid, and it's up to Anet to decide if either of them have any value. It's not like they don't shift/expand their target demographics all the time.

    That post is from the time only MO was considered an open world boss for 10 players. Samarog and Cairn became jokes a bit later when the community became better at running them

    Not to mention the power creep that came with PoF.

    Cairn is a total pushover in a time where guardian can provide 10 man stability, heal scourge/heal tempest can heal 10 people through all his mechanics, firebrigade provides easy 10 man boons and the damage of classes is 5-8k higher than during HoT time. Not even going to mention condition mirage or condition renegade for this fight since those 2 classes basically melt Cairn where he stands.

    Samarog has 2 mechanics:

    • find your cc skills (even easier now that thiefs can be pdps with Basilisk Venom and Dragonhunters are meta)
    • don't be a kitten during the phases and get Rigom below the boss

    He is by far considered the easiest raid boss in game atm.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:
    If raids are too difficult for you, you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in a game.

    "If you don't like the game exactly as it is currently, you're not target demographics for that game" is not a good argument. It only exists to shut down any and every discussion about improving the game - because , once you start using it, it can be used against any possible suggestion and complain.

    For example, we could also say, that "if you think that the last raids aren't difficult enough (or that the raid release schedule is too slow), then you are not part of the target demographic for a raid content in this game".

    Funny how that works, right?

    Except that Anet specifically stated that raids were supposed to be the most challenging content in the game? So technically they're not wrong.

    They stated that raids were supposed to be the most challenging content in the game, and they are. They never stated they wanted them to be more challenging that they are now however, did they? (And obviously they didn't want that, or they would make them to be more challenging). So, if you think raids aren't difficult enough, you are as much not a part of target demographics as if you thought they are too difficult. It works both ways equally.

    I never said anything about them being more challenging so I don’t see what you’re saying has anything to do with what I posted. Difficulty is essentially a threshold. You either exceed it, meet it, or fail to meet it. This is where individual player skill comes in.

    Dark Souls can be considered difficult. If you successfully complete it several times then it got easier for you but its difficulty overall didn’t change.

    @Crystal Reid.2481 said:
    New forum, so I'll jump in with a new post on this.

    We won't be adding a different difficulty tier at this time. Raids need to continue to remain the most challenging content in the game, and they aren't designed to be accessible by everyone from a skill perspective. Could they be more accessible from a "finding 9 other players to play with" side? Sure. That isn't always an easy problem to solve, and any solution would detract away from the team making more raid content. We'd love to get more content out to you guys faster really.

    I see a lot of comments about W4 difficulty, so I'll add some notes on that as well. Balance came in later than expected since we had far more bosses and content to test than usual. Are we totally happy with how balance turned out? Yes and no. The Mursaat Overseer base difficulty is too easy, but we were very happy with the CM difficulty. For the next release we'd like to get difficulty tuned more back in line with Spirit Vale. However, some of that original difficulty and magic is hard to re-capture. You never forget your first raid boss kill.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/113984/#Comment_113984

    Also bolded an important part of their post.

    Notice, they said that the only w4 difficulty they were unhappy with was MO. Cairn and Samarog were thus obviously completely fine. They also said, that the future difficulty they meant to aim for was Spirit Vale, which should mean w5 difficulty that some raiders so like was probably harder than intended. And wouldnt that also mean that W6, W7 are exactly the difficulty they were shooting for?

    So, apparently, like i said, if some people say that the raids should be harder, they are "not part of a target raid demographics".

    Notice also, that i already said i consider (and always considered) this kind of argument to be pure kitten, for exactly that reason. Imo both arguments are equally valid, and it's up to Anet to decide if either of them have any value. It's not like they don't shift/expand their target demographics all the time.

    Obmission doesn’t mean that they’re okay with it. There’s not enough information to go one way or the other in regards to the other bosses.

    I personally don’t find W5 to be all that much more difficult than W1. The only difference is that W1 has been out much longer.

    I wouldn’t say that those that want raids to be more difficult as not being part of the demographics. Anet has added CM’s which increase the difficulty and have been added to just about every boss since they started doing them. They just need to make them repeatable and worth doing.

  • "You're not the intended demographic"

    What a double statement... if that is the case, then why for a PvE player it is the ONLY WAY to get Legendary Armor?

    I play WvW so I don't need Raids to get legendary armor,
    And I am absolutely extatic about that fact due to the harsh comments and right-out bad treatment (even threats) I got in Aerodome when I naïvely asked about Raids when I was relatively new, but for a pure PvE player it is stupid that it is the ONLY way for them... first make that for PvEers tied exclusively to Raids, then claim that a huge proportion of the players are "Not the intended demographic" is quite discriminating.

    Want Raids to remain elitist and exclusive content for a small group? Then give PvE-ers Options outside Raids to get Legendary Armor.

    Again, as in another thread: Anet's reward system is screwed up to the max...

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    "You're not the intended demographic"
    What a double statement... if that is the case, then why for a PvE player it is the ONLY WAY to get Legendary Armor?
    And I am absolutely extatic about that fact due to the harsh comments and right-out bad treatment (even threats) I got in Aerodome when I naïvely asked about Raids when I was relatively new, but for a pure PvE player it is stupid that it is the ONLY way for them... first make that for PvEers tied exclusively to Raids, then claim that a huge proportion of the players are "Not the intended demographic" is quite discriminating.
    Want Raids to remain elitist and exclusive content for a small group? Then give PvE-ers Options outside Raids to get Legendary Armor.

    The problems is that, at first, people just asked for harder content.
    This way we got harder open world PvE (like those pocket raptor swarms) and raids (probably even more stuff as well).
    After some time raiders complained about insufficient player numbers (as least as far as I know from LA map chat), so Anet added more incentives (like legendary armour) for that mode.
    If you add legendary armour parts to other parts of PvE (possibly Strike Missions) could lead to the raiding community grow even smaller and new raids being released could become a rarer occasion than it already is..
    I doubt many people want that.

  • Neutra.6857Neutra.6857 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    "You're not the intended demographic"
    What a double statement... if that is the case, then why for a PvE player it is the ONLY WAY to get Legendary Armor?
    And I am absolutely extatic about that fact due to the harsh comments and right-out bad treatment (even threats) I got in Aerodome when I naïvely asked about Raids when I was relatively new, but for a pure PvE player it is stupid that it is the ONLY way for them... first make that for PvEers tied exclusively to Raids, then claim that a huge proportion of the players are "Not the intended demographic" is quite discriminating.
    Want Raids to remain elitist and exclusive content for a small group? Then give PvE-ers Options outside Raids to get Legendary Armor.

    The problems is that, at first, people just asked for harder content.
    This way we got harder open world PvE (like those pocket raptor swarms) and raids (probably even more stuff as well).
    After some time raiders complained about insufficient player numbers (as least as far as I know from LA map chat), so Anet added more incentives (like legendary armour) for that mode.
    If you add legendary armour parts to other parts of PvE (possibly Strike Missions) could lead to the raiding community grow even smaller and new raids being released could become a rarer occasion than it already is..
    I doubt many people want that.

    Legendary armor was part of raiding from the beginning.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Tuna Bandit.3786 said:
    "You're not the intended demographic"
    What a double statement... if that is the case, then why for a PvE player it is the ONLY WAY to get Legendary Armor?
    And I am absolutely extatic about that fact due to the harsh comments and right-out bad treatment (even threats) I got in Aerodome when I naïvely asked about Raids when I was relatively new, but for a pure PvE player it is stupid that it is the ONLY way for them... first make that for PvEers tied exclusively to Raids, then claim that a huge proportion of the players are "Not the intended demographic" is quite discriminating.
    Want Raids to remain elitist and exclusive content for a small group? Then give PvE-ers Options outside Raids to get Legendary Armor.

    The problems is that, at first, people just asked for harder content.
    This way we got harder open world PvE (like those pocket raptor swarms) and raids (probably even more stuff as well).
    After some time raiders complained about insufficient player numbers (as least as far as I know from LA map chat), so Anet added more incentives (like legendary armour) for that mode.
    If you add legendary armour parts to other parts of PvE (possibly Strike Missions) could lead to the raiding community grow even smaller and new raids being released could become a rarer occasion than it already is..
    I doubt many people want that.

    You are wrong. Legendary armor availability might have been made possible with wing 4, but the fact it would be raid rewarded (and at that time unique to raids) was established from the very beginning. Even the very first raid wing bosses dropped Legendary insights from day 1.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    Then I was misinformed by other misinformed people in the LA Map chat.
    I still don't think they should add Legendary armour to other content though, unless raids get a new special something.
    Something needs to stay special to raiding.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Then I was misinformed by other misinformed people in the LA Map chat.
    I still don't think they should add Legendary armour to other content though, unless raids get a new special something.
    Something needs to stay special to raiding.

    They already have a number of unique skins. That should have been enough.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Then I was misinformed by other misinformed people in the LA Map chat.
    I still don't think they should add Legendary armour to other content though, unless raids get a new special something.
    Something needs to stay special to raiding.

    They already have a number of unique skins. That should have been enough.

    I don't think some simple skins are enough incentive for some.
    Especially, if you can get higher-quality ones from Black lion traders.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:
    They already have a number of unique skins. That should have been enough.

    Skins? And thats it? For hardest PvE content the only reward should be skins? Hell no! Golds from raid are weak and after a while ascendent drops become uselles - i have all 9 classes geared up most of them with 2-3 sets and 100+ slots filled with ascendent chests.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @rchristianhk.3914 said:
    100+ slots filled with ascendent chests.

    These should just stack.
    Do they require to type in a message when deleting them?
    With that much ascended gear, you don't need the legendary armour though.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Then I was misinformed by other misinformed people in the LA Map chat.
    I still don't think they should add Legendary armour to other content though, unless raids get a new special something.
    Something needs to stay special to raiding.

    They already have a number of unique skins. That should have been enough.

    I don't think some simple skins are enough incentive for some.
    Especially, if you can get higher-quality ones from Black lion traders.

    Raid skins are high quality ones, for the most part. And if some people need way stronger incentives to raid, then perhaps they are not really interested in raids at all.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Raid skins are high quality ones, for the most part. And if some people need way stronger incentives to raid, then perhaps they are not really interested in raids at all.

    To be fair only a handful skins from raids are looking awesome or at least mediocre. It's all personal taste but when I look at my chars I'm only using a handful weapons skins if at all. The overwhelming majority of my skins are neither raid or fractal themed skins.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    Raid skins are high quality ones, for the most part. And if some people need way stronger incentives to raid, then perhaps they are not really interested in raids at all.

    I didn't say/wrote they aren't high in quality, it's just that Arenanet puts higher quality into the Black lion skins than any skin obtainable in game that's not a legendary.

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.