Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Raids Are Too Difficult, Create Easy Modes

13>

Comments

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @rchristianhk.3914 said:
    100+ slots filled with ascendent chests.

    These should just stack.
    Do they require to type in a message when deleting them?
    With that much ascended gear, you don't need the legendary armour though.

    Non raiders dont need it either.
    For example aurora is only for ow players.
    Raids provide unique skins, what is the reward when you have all of them?
    On the other hand you can farm silverwastes and get 30 gold each hour without any skill required.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 15, 2019

    At least they are now thinking about it, it seems:

    Is there room for a ‘story’ difficulty in raids and other high-end content?

    MZ: There is. There’s a constant, constant tug. Do we go build new raids for the raid group, or do we pull somebody to go make the old raids easier? The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

    I would not rule it out. The thing that we need to be careful about is how we manage that expectation. Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid, that is taking time away from other things like being able to build additional raid content for the raiders. We want to make sure that we’re trying to service both groups.

    (from https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring )

    Now at least they are no longer talking about raids being a content only for "the most dedicated of players", but about "servicing both groups".

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • inb4 strike missions too hard, need ez mode

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2019

    @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @Fiery Mices.9172 said:
    if top tier guilds can't finish the raids,

    All sorts of guilds finish raids, including music guilds, PUGs, and even a guild run by a self-described "hardcore casual".

    how does arena net expect my guild to beat them?

    Anet only expects about 10-20% of players to participate in raids. They are designed as "challenging group content," i.e. not for everyone.

    Your guild could, if they want to. There's no real need to do so unless you enjoy the challenge.

    Challenging.... I really need to try those then.
    Thing is I don’t play meta builds, finding a pug will be its own adventure ahaha

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    At least they are now thinking about it, it seems:

    Is there room for a ‘story’ difficulty in raids and other high-end content?

    MZ: There is. There’s a constant, constant tug. Do we go build new raids for the raid group, or do we pull somebody to go make the old raids easier? The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

    I would not rule it out. The thing that we need to be careful about is how we manage that expectation. Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid, that is taking time away from other things like being able to build additional raid content for the raiders. We want to make sure that we’re trying to service both groups.

    (from https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring )

    Now at least they are no longer talking about raids being a content only for "the most dedicated of players", but about "servicing both groups".

    I read that as being in regards to the story and not the raid itself.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    At least they are now thinking about it, it seems:

    Is there room for a ‘story’ difficulty in raids and other high-end content?

    MZ: There is. There’s a constant, constant tug. Do we go build new raids for the raid group, or do we pull somebody to go make the old raids easier? The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

    I would not rule it out. The thing that we need to be careful about is how we manage that expectation. Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid, that is taking time away from other things like being able to build additional raid content for the raiders. We want to make sure that we’re trying to service both groups.

    (from https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring )

    Now at least they are no longer talking about raids being a content only for "the most dedicated of players", but about "servicing both groups".

    I read that as being in regards to the story and not the raid itself.

    It was in the part where they were talking specifically about raids, not about OW or personal story.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:
    At least they are now thinking about it, it seems:

    Is there room for a ‘story’ difficulty in raids and other high-end content?

    MZ: There is. There’s a constant, constant tug. Do we go build new raids for the raid group, or do we pull somebody to go make the old raids easier? The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

    I would not rule it out. The thing that we need to be careful about is how we manage that expectation. Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid, that is taking time away from other things like being able to build additional raid content for the raiders. We want to make sure that we’re trying to service both groups.

    (from https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/pvp-raids-world-restructuring )

    Now at least they are no longer talking about raids being a content only for "the most dedicated of players", but about "servicing both groups".

    I read that as being in regards to the story and not the raid itself.

    It was in the part where they were talking specifically about raids, not about OW or personal story.

    They were talking about the story within the raids.

    The Bastion of the Penitent is one that we get a lot of comments on, because it’s the Saul D’Alessio story and the mursaat. It’s a very powerful, moving story, and it was very self-contained to that raid. So unless you’re a raider, you never see it.

    .

    Because if we go back and release ‘story mode’ for an individual raid,

  • DoRi Silvia.4159DoRi Silvia.4159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 25, 2019

    GIT GUD

    Raids aren't difficult, it just requires every player to know the mechanics and if that is hard for you then join a raiding guild which does training
    I started raiding this year and like the majority of you, I found it difficult at the start but instead of whining and crying I persevered, joined a raid training guild and did all I can to learn raids.
    Once you learn the mechanics and know what to do on each boss it is not hard

    Just because you been spoon fed most of the game, doesn't mean content made for players who want a challenge should be spoon fed to you because you have a cry

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    GIT GUD

    Using a meme doesn't help your argument, you know.
    It often also causes discredit to your argument, as it shouldn't be taking seriously if it contains a meme

    Raids aren't difficult

    Actually, they ARE difficult for many players.
    That fact doesn't change, just because a self-selected minority of the game's population thinks otherwise.

    instead of whining and crying I persevered

    Focusing on the whining minority to "bolster" your argument is a bad choice, too, as most people (as far as my non-forum knowledge goes) simply shrug off raids as 'it's not for players like me, so I hardly care'. I've NEVER seen anyone crying on map chat that raids are too hard or anything along those lines.

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    I'm not too sure why those arguments that raids are difficult still preserve at this point. I'm guessing that people maybe enjoy repeating themselves, or that there is nothing else to talk about in this game. Anyway, I'd be really careful with the word "difficult". Raids aren't difficult and this argument has been discussed over and over again, however they do require certain coordination and for each player in the raid to know their class. If you are now insinuating that raids should be facepalm, and that a 0 buff squad (might, quickness, alacrity, etc...), and with extremely low dps should be able to kill a raid boss, then I'm not too sure in which direction the game would be going.

  • DoRi Silvia.4159DoRi Silvia.4159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:
    GIT GUD

    Using a meme doesn't help your argument, you know.
    It often also causes discredit to your argument, as it shouldn't be taking seriously if it contains a meme

    Lol
    This whole thread is a joke which can't be taken seriously

    If you want a serious answer look at the post above this post

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @KryTiKaL.3125 said:
    And it seems like Strikes might be what will fill that desire. However the problem still persists that ANet isn't doing much of anything for the other end of the spectrum and they haven't for quite a long time now. Years.

    If Anet acts that way, perhaps there is a good reason for that? Perhaps that hardcore crowd turned out not to be all that satisfying type of customers for them?

    The ease in which Raids are completed is an issue with the hardcore player subset of the community and Raids as they exist now are already pretty easily accessible so long as people acknowledge that their being "gated" out of them is more of a them issue than anything else.

    I actually actively raided for a while, and i'd like to suggest that maybe your view of things maybe as biased as you think the outlook of the other side is. The accessibility is a problem (even if not for everyone), and the same can be said about difficulty level.

    I think we need more players that dont want to improve their skill or actively play the game in raids as well. It's a good way to tune up the difficulty lv for the more engaged players and still give forum veterans such as yourself all the stuff they feel strongly about.

    Anet is not updating the game at all. I think that should tell you something how they feel about the game in general. They focus a bit more on open world. Simply because engaged players won't be fooled anymore and moved on. The wallets of those that dont even read what they are buying are easy targets I suppose.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    @tim.4596 said:
    I'm not too sure why those arguments that raids are difficult still preserve at this point. I'm guessing that people maybe enjoy repeating themselves, or that there is nothing else to talk about in this game. Anyway, I'd be really careful with the word "difficult". Raids aren't difficult and this argument has been discussed over and over again, however they do require certain coordination and for each player in the raid to know their class. If you are now insinuating that raids should be facepalm, and that a 0 buff squad (might, quickness, alacrity, etc...), and with extremely low dps should be able to kill a raid boss, then I'm not too sure in which direction the game would be going.

    Arguments that raids are difficult persist, because for many players they are. It's not just a matter of coordination, although that, of course, is quite a significant part of difficulty. They also require certain amount of personal skill - and while you may think that amount is low and everyone should be able to pass it, that's only the Dunning-Kruger efect in action. Actual observations of many players in raid training (and specifically not including those that were there, but didn't intend to learn) has shown to me that no, not everyone is equally skilled, and not everyone is skilled enough.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    The issue with difficulty in Guild Wars 2 is that we either get Raids or we get Strike Missions, either exciting, or completely brain dead content. There is very little in between.
    When we get comments about players struggling on the joke Mission, I mean Strike Mission, it's not a surprise that we get posts about the difficulty of Raids. Of course those same players would struggle everywhere else in the game too, so all the talk about the difficulty of Raids alone is indeed getting tiring at this point.

    Beat Balthazar, Mordremoth, Caudecus without dead rushing, beat all the living world story without death rushing, beat a couple of T4 Fractals, unlock your next elite spec while fighting hero challenges solo (at least beat the veterans), beat Giganticus Lupicus once. Do all this and then complain about the "difficulty of Raids". I've been to Raid training runs and I've seen loads of players who haven't done anything in this game without someone holding their hand, yet complain about the difficulty of Raids. Play the game properly first and then Raids will no longer be hard.

  • tim.4596tim.4596 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 26, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The issue with difficulty in Guild Wars 2 is that we either get Raids or we get Strike Missions, either exciting, or completely brain dead content. There is very little in between.
    When we get comments about players struggling on the joke Mission, I mean Strike Mission, it's not a surprise that we get posts about the difficulty of Raids. Of course those same players would struggle everywhere else in the game too, so all the talk about the difficulty of Raids alone is indeed getting tiring at this point.

    Well, struggling with strike missions is another thing altogether. I mean I can understand people struggling with raids, but for strike missions you can literally 3 or 4man (no healer). So I'm guessing to struggle with strike missions everything about your character must be wrong, build, gear, stats etc... And they probably went 5man instead of 10. I know that the strike missions recommend 5-10 people however, I'm not sure whether or not the boss scale in difficulty depending on how many players are in the instance.

    Beat Balthazar, Mordremoth, Caudecus without dead rushing, beat all the living world story without death rushing, beat a couple of T4 Fractals, unlock your next elite spec while fighting hero challenges solo (at least beat the veterans), beat Giganticus Lupicus once. Do all this and then complain about the "difficulty of Raids". I've been to Raid training runs and I've seen loads of players who haven't done anything in this game without someone holding their hand, yet complain about the difficulty of Raids. Play the game properly first and then Raids will no longer be hard.

    Regarding beating the story mode of the game and being able to solo dungeons, I don't know to be honest. Story is fairly easy, and if you were to do it more than once, you'd beat every boss very easily. And you generally only do it once or twice depending on whether or not you wish to repeat the story with another character or if you're going strong for those achievements. Soloing dungeons is just not that appealing, and seems to be a waste of time atm; I'd say it's mostly core GW2 players who feels nostalgic about dungeons and decide to do them solo, as they might have done a lot of them back in vanilla GW2, so I wouldn't really regard those as inexperience whatsoever for raids. However Fractals couldn't be counted in as experience yeah. I've seen that players who've generally cleared fractals CM usually do very good in raids, and can for sure pull out a rotation.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @tim.4596 said:
    Regarding beating the story mode of the game and being able to solo dungeons, I don't know to be honest. Story is fairly easy, and if you were to do it more than once, you'd beat every boss very easily. And you generally only do it once or twice depending on whether or not you wish to repeat the story with another character or if you're going strong for those achievements. Soloing dungeons is just not that appealing, and seems to be a waste of time atm; I'd say it's mostly core GW2 players who feels nostalgic about dungeons and decide to do them solo, as they might have done a lot of them back in vanilla GW2, so I wouldn't really regard those as inexperience whatsoever for raids. However Fractals couldn't be counted in as experience yeah.

    I wasn't talking about soloing the dungeons but just running them. I've been to raid training runs with players that have done literally nothing in the game "properly" and expecting raid kills just because they were there.

    I've seen that players who've generally cleared fractals CM usually do very good in raids, and can for sure pull out a rotation.

    Yes that's the point. Players that do what the game has to offer before Raids will find Raids significantly easier, including Fractal CMs, which can be harder than lots of Raid encounters. On the other hand, those that either bypass the story with death rushing, hide behind walls of other players in the open world or play the "pull the boss in a corner to revive" strat in dungeons, are not gonna do well in Raids and find them insanely difficult.

    So overall how difficult Raids are will depend on the way the player experienced the rest of the game and how they handled the various encounters.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    I wonder how the perception of raids would change if you locked access to raids behind dungeon master aka doing all paths of dungeons at least once. Or setting a pre req of reaching fotm 100. Sure those achievements can still be carried but at least would give players some semblance of what they're getting into rather than making the jump from open world to raids.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    I wonder how the perception of raids would change if you locked access to raids behind dungeon master aka doing all paths of dungeons at least once. Or setting a pre req of reaching fotm 100.

    You would lock raids behind even more blockades?
    These two locks would shove raids even harder into the "do not touch" and "elitism" corners than they already are, assuming it's even possible to shove them harder.

  • Shikaru.7618Shikaru.7618 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:
    I wonder how the perception of raids would change if you locked access to raids behind dungeon master aka doing all paths of dungeons at least once. Or setting a pre req of reaching fotm 100.

    You would lock raids behind even more blockades?
    These two locks would shove raids even harder into the "do not touch" and "elitism" corners than they already are, assuming it's even possible to shove them harder.

    I dont think it can be shoved any harder which is why putting them behind the lockouts would at least set the right expectation. Raids are instanced content and are going to be a step up from dungeons and fotm. If you cant handle these, dont bash your head against the wall with raids. They are not meant to be open world friendly.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    You would lock raids behind even more blockades?
    These two locks would shove raids even harder into the "do not touch" and "elitism" corners than they already are, assuming it's even possible to shove them harder.

    Someone that cannot finish dungeons/fractals shouldn't even try to find a training group for Raids. It's really weird that you call dungeons and fractals "locks" as if players should ignore them to go Raid instead, that skipping is part of the issue with Raid difficulty in the first place.

    Now for the actual suggestion I can't say I like it because dungeons lack population so getting that Dungeon Master would be hard, not because the content is hard, but rather because getting other people to run dungeons with is. Also, getting to level 100 Fractals requires investment in Agony, which isn't required in Raids. Some Fractal + instability combinations can be harder than the easier Raids. Still, I always get confused when people with zero dungeon or fractal experience come to Raid training runs and complain about the difficulty, of course you haven't done the 5-man instanced content, why do you complain when the 10-man is challenging?

    Hard gate no, but some common sense would be nice.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    So, raids are worse than T4 shattered Observatory?
    I already hate that one on T1.

  • DoRi Silvia.4159DoRi Silvia.4159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 27, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    So, raids are worse than T4 shattered Observatory?
    I already hate that one on T1.

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    Raids aren't difficult

    Actually, they ARE difficult for many players.
    That fact doesn't change, just because a self-selected minority of the game's population thinks otherwise.

    So your telling me raids ARE difficult and you're trying to defend this post/argument when you haven't even tried raiding or have good experience in it???
    Are you basing your opinion just off other peoples posts ?
    This is exactly the behavior that players need to step away from if they want to get into raiding.

    How can you have a opinion on the subject of raid difficulty when you don't have the experience ?

    Honestly if people want to raid, do some research get your self into raid training groups and practice practice practice.
    This topic pops up so much it's getting tiring

  • @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The issue with difficulty in Guild Wars 2 is that we either get Raids or we get Strike Missions, either exciting, or completely brain dead content. There is very little in between.
    When we get comments about players struggling on the joke Mission, I mean Strike Mission, it's not a surprise that we get posts about the difficulty of Raids. Of course those same players would struggle everywhere else in the game too, so all the talk about the difficulty of Raids alone is indeed getting tiring at this point.

    Beat Balthazar, Mordremoth, Caudecus without dead rushing, beat all the living world story without death rushing, beat a couple of T4 Fractals, unlock your next elite spec while fighting hero challenges solo (at least beat the veterans), beat Giganticus Lupicus once. Do all this and then complain about the "difficulty of Raids". I've been to Raid training runs and I've seen loads of players who haven't done anything in this game without someone holding their hand, yet complain about the difficulty of Raids. Play the game properly first and then Raids will no longer be hard.

    I've done all the things you mentioned, i have even farmed my envoy armor set, and i will say to you - raids are still hard. Unpleasantly hard.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    The issue with difficulty in Guild Wars 2 is that we either get Raids or we get Strike Missions, either exciting, or completely brain dead content. There is very little in between.
    When we get comments about players struggling on the joke Mission, I mean Strike Mission, it's not a surprise that we get posts about the difficulty of Raids. Of course those same players would struggle everywhere else in the game too, so all the talk about the difficulty of Raids alone is indeed getting tiring at this point.

    Beat Balthazar, Mordremoth, Caudecus without dead rushing, beat all the living world story without death rushing, beat a couple of T4 Fractals, unlock your next elite spec while fighting hero challenges solo (at least beat the veterans), beat Giganticus Lupicus once. Do all this and then complain about the "difficulty of Raids". I've been to Raid training runs and I've seen loads of players who haven't done anything in this game without someone holding their hand, yet complain about the difficulty of Raids. Play the game properly first and then Raids will no longer be hard.

    I've done all the things you mentioned, i have even farmed my envoy armor set, and i will say to you - raids are still hard. Unpleasantly hard.

    As a some1 who leads training raids more or less daily to group of new ppl i have to disagree. Raids aren't hard, kill strats are. If you aren't that good player its pointless to copy paste SC Squad compositions for raids as there is so many cheese strats already. Lets take Matthias for example, boss that i could call noob killer. Lets see the squad composition now.
    1boon thief
    1 heal ala rene
    1 scourge healer
    1 bs
    6 dps
    Teef covers all the boons including might so you can drop druid from Squad. With this setup ur Squad has perma all boons(resistance for Matthias conditions and stability for air phase knockdowns aswell.) And what we have instead of druid? A SCOURGE that can barrier every high dmg attacks and rez all the downed players, even those that gets downed in poison. If spirits really matter, take and dps soulbeast.
    If this doesn't feel cheese enough, cheese more and take another healer, perhaps firebrand with aegis spam. You still have room to take it, If you do you will end up with 5 dps and 1 bs which is normal amount of damage dealers with double chrono comp.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    So, raids are worse than T4 shattered Observatory?
    I already hate that one on T1.

    Thank you for proving my point. We are getting a billion posts about how hard raids are (which are supposed to be) and none about things like T1 SO that's supposed to be easy. If you hate SO T1 don't even try Raids

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.