Structured pvp and at's - Don't bring back the mat's — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Structured pvp and at's - Don't bring back the mat's

Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

I've been having lots of fun playing knowing that mAT's are disabled. 1 reason is just that the teams that play at's usually do it as an excuse to trash talk and now I know that not everyone does but when the mAT teams are so incredibely toxic that not 1 person can socialize with them then you know it's bad. The only reasons these teams(like team usa) exist is for 1.cheating 2. ganging up on ppl 3.so they can pretend they have friends. I'm very glad mAT's are disabled and here's the actual reason why.

As far as at's being a thing- they are not that big and as far as I know most of the top teir players just do some ranked and lfg AT's. Yet some group 'demand' that balancing and metabuilding should be done around AT's and I just don't get why anyone would want this. I feel like balancing has been done around at's but has honestly not changed the AT meta at all! For example we all know they tried to balance necro, right? but necro is still the same op stuff in AT's, the difference? As a result of nerfs now builds that were not seen in AT's(like condi reaper or power scourge) are now unplayable in any pvp game mode.

Now at least keeping these 2 topics in mind I ask myself- Why keep the mAT, when all it is is reward the top 1% of the worst , when you could be focusing on doing something interesting like trying to increase build diversity. I honestly think AT's are killing the game mode and would only like dailies as a casual source of income.

Comments

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭

    you would need some sort of content to replace team que.... even tho that scene was killed when they introduced tourneys ;-(

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nova.3817 said:
    you would need some sort of content to replace team que.... even tho that scene was killed when they introduced tourneys ;-(

    I’ve been think and wonder why team q when I can do ranked. Since they mentioned 2v2 arena I thought that could be the perfect thing to replace it. That way build diversity could sky rocket while keeping necro firebrand duos

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    ATs didnt kill pvp but more killed the Community people will always SOLO but there is no motivation to play with friends or bring people into spvp thus leads to a declining pop ATS were not a replacement for team que

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

    Sorry Dan, you clearly are not the man.

    If you think that’s what’s killing pvp the you’re delusional. First and foremost they do not balance solely around ATs. It’s a combination of ATs, ranked, and wvw/

    What killed pvp was removing team queue for duo queue. But we have no one to blame other than the community at the time. People were complaining about a five stack rolling over 1s and then wanted only 5v5. But that can’t strictly happen so ANet did what the community wanted.

    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

    Sorry Dan, you clearly are not the man.

    If you think that’s what’s killing pvp the you’re delusional. First and foremost they do not balance solely around ATs. It’s a combination of ATs, ranked, and wvw/

    What killed pvp was removing team queue for duo queue. But we have no one to blame other than the community at the time. People were complaining about a five stack rolling over 1s and then wanted only 5v5. But that can’t strictly happen so ANet did what the community wanted.

    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

    couldn't agree more

  • Ragnar.4257Ragnar.4257 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

    Really? Builds have been balanced around AT?

    Hardly any of the recent big balance changes that have "killed builds" have been with AT in mind.

    CI? Hardly used in AT.
    Sic Em SB? Hardly used in AT.
    Chrono? Hardly used in AT.
    Scrapper..... debatable.
    Core Guard? Hardly used in AT.

    Strangely enough, the main features of ATs (Support FBs, Condi Scourges, Spellbreakers) have been basically untouched since shortly after PoF release. Its like the exact opposite of your conjecture.

  • They don’t balance around ATs...they don’t balance around anything.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Sorry Dan, you clearly are not the man.

    If you think that’s what’s killing pvp the you’re delusional. First and foremost they do not balance solely around ATs. It’s a combination of ATs, ranked, and wvw/

    What killed pvp was removing team queue for duo queue. But we have no one to blame other than the community at the time. People were complaining about a five stack rolling over 1s and then wanted only 5v5. But that can’t strictly happen so ANet did what the community wanted.

    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

    Do you think team queue should have stayed? How is premades steamrolling five randoms fair or challenging? As far as I understood duo queues were implemented as a trial system for a season. But then they decided to make it permanent (without trying other things).

    I don't think it was the removal of the team queue that killed the game but the neglect all around (Lack of diversity, balance, stale game mode, no punishment for afk's/throwers/cheaters/botters, slow to make changes/add new things, etc.). You can't have a competitive game where a team of five can farm randoms. There should have been a team queue and a solo queue and if they were going to implement leaderboards there should have been a separate one for each. Duo queue is the lesser of the two but still has its issues.

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    Sorry Dan, you clearly are not the man.

    If you think that’s what’s killing pvp the you’re delusional. First and foremost they do not balance solely around ATs. It’s a combination of ATs, ranked, and wvw/

    What killed pvp was removing team queue for duo queue. But we have no one to blame other than the community at the time. People were complaining about a five stack rolling over 1s and then wanted only 5v5. But that can’t strictly happen so ANet did what the community wanted.

    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

    Do you think team queue should have stayed? How is premades steamrolling five randoms fair or challenging? As far as I understood duo queues were implemented as a trial system for a season. But then they decided to make it permanent (without trying other things).

    I don't think it was the removal of the team queue that killed the game but the neglect all around (Lack of diversity, balance, stale game mode, no punishment for afk's/throwers/cheaters/botters, slow to make changes/add new things, etc.). You can't have a competitive game where a team of five can farm randoms. There should have been a team queue and a solo queue and if they were going to implement leaderboards there should have been a separate one for each. Duo queue is the lesser of the two but still has its issues.

    Yes it should have stayed everyone should have been pushed to form premades as having a full 5 man premade is your endgame for SPVP for 5v5 content No?

    a 5 man couldn't be qued vs full randoms anet made that impossible.... but you could have 4+1 vs 5 randoms and that was unfair sure... but that should make people want to form premades and teams of there own ......... Creating a community if you will.... instead of making everyone a solo player in a MMO... people like to blame premades bc it makes for an excellent scapegoat when people cant accept that they just need to improve... easier to say well i was solo and they were premade as if that matters being premade with a bunch of noobs vs one pro player and see how that works out...

    Ultimately you are right there should be a team que and a solo que... idk who really cares about leaderboards but fine separate those aswell...

    you say duo is the lesser evil I disagree duo q killed every single casual pvp guild and the game is no better for it.

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Ragnar.4257 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

    Really? Builds have been balanced around AT?

    Hardly any of the recent big balance changes that have "killed builds" have been with AT in mind.

    CI? Hardly used in AT.
    Sic Em SB? Hardly used in AT.
    Chrono? Hardly used in AT.
    Scrapper..... debatable.
    Core Guard? Hardly used in AT.

    Strangely enough, the main features of ATs (Support FBs, Condi Scourges, Spellbreakers) have been basically untouched since shortly after PoF release. Its like the exact opposite of your conjecture.

    Yet your not talking about the same thing as I. All the thing you mentioned were meta build that are still viable in ats. What I’m talking is overall balance and no firebrand was not hardly touch they complete changed boon mechanics with the intent to make certain builds unplayable and yes they have nerfing many builds that were just op in ranked like soulbeast beast and deadeye as a result you are left with only meta builds and even if that’s not balancing around ats it is still bad for the game

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 26, 2019

    @phokus.8934 said:
    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

    I guess your calling me an inmate, but I don’t see how that’s true considering how I made the necro meta and was the first one well known player to play certain thief builds like sw/d and what is the now meta(ish) condi thief. Also still have a presence in other games too.But go ahead keep posting complete non-sense that doesn’t have anything to do with this discussion that I posted first.

  • Roquen.5406Roquen.5406 Member ✭✭✭

    @Nova.3817 said:
    Yes it should have stayed everyone should have been pushed to form premades as having a full 5 man premade is your endgame for SPVP for 5v5 content No?

    a 5 man couldn't be qued vs full randoms anet made that impossible.... but you could have 4+1 vs 5 randoms and that was unfair sure... but that should make people want to form premades and teams of there own creating a community if you will instead of making everyone a solo player in a MMO... people like to blame premades bc it makes for a excellent scapegoat when people cant accept that they just need to improve... easier to say well i was solo and they were premade as if that matters being premade with a bunch of noobs vs one pro player and see how that works out...

    Ultimately you are right there should be a team que and a solo que... idk who really cares about leaderboards but fine separate those aswell...

    you say duo is the lesser evil I disagree duo q killed every single casual pvp guild and the game is no better for it.

    I guess my memory is hazier than I remember, for some reason I thought I used to see premade vs. randoms. Thanks for the clarification. I'm all for people improving and doing better but you have to remember that there are other players in the game. Offering other options helps cater to more of an audience, which in turn could help with player retention. You will always have the people that want to push for the teams. But on the flip side you will have the casual person that wants to hop on and play some matches paired with other randoms.

    That's why other games usually have more than one mode within the mode (Such as 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, or larger battleground type maps/modes like 8v8, 10v10, 15v15, etc). Spvp, really only has one mode at this point, the other two they attempted and scrapped rather quickly, rather than trying to work on them.

    I only pointed out leaderboards because that was apparently important/content for Anet (They tried to do the same with fractals but the scrapped that leaderboard entirely).

  • Nova.3817Nova.3817 Member ✭✭✭

    @Roquen.5406 said:

    @Nova.3817 said:
    Yes it should have stayed everyone should have been pushed to form premades as having a full 5 man premade is your endgame for SPVP for 5v5 content No?

    a 5 man couldn't be qued vs full randoms anet made that impossible.... but you could have 4+1 vs 5 randoms and that was unfair sure... but that should make people want to form premades and teams of there own creating a community if you will instead of making everyone a solo player in a MMO... people like to blame premades bc it makes for a excellent scapegoat when people cant accept that they just need to improve... easier to say well i was solo and they were premade as if that matters being premade with a bunch of noobs vs one pro player and see how that works out...

    Ultimately you are right there should be a team que and a solo que... idk who really cares about leaderboards but fine separate those aswell...

    you say duo is the lesser evil I disagree duo q killed every single casual pvp guild and the game is no better for it.

    I guess my memory is hazier than I remember, for some reason I thought I used to see premade vs. randoms. Thanks for the clarification. I'm all for people improving and doing better but you have to remember that there are other players in the game. Offering other options helps cater to more of an audience, which in turn could help with player retention. You will always have the people that want to push for the teams. But on the flip side you will have the casual person that wants to hop on and play some matches paired with other randoms.

    That's why other games usually have more than one mode within the mode (Such as 2v2, 3v3, 4v4, 5v5, or larger battleground type maps/modes like 8v8, 10v10, 15v15, etc). Spvp, really only has one mode at this point, the other two they attempted and scrapped rather quickly, rather than trying to work on them.

    I only pointed out leaderboards because that was apparently important/content for Anet (They tried to do the same with fractals but the scrapped that leaderboard entirely).

    keep in mind what im suggesting is simply the same formula all the other game modes subscribe 2

    in WvW your encouraged to join a guild group or at very least a commander to follow to have a meaningful impact sure you can roam solo to be casual but if you want to make an impact and get top rewards your gonna need teammates and friends to accomplish it.

    Pve almost all the content is soloable but again if you wanna do raid content (the end game content) then your gonna need to join up with a guild or a group of friends! and sure you can join a pug group but your success is going to be much lower.

    and so on every content in this game pushes you to make friends and join guilds with the exception of now SPVP and it shows

  • everyman.4375everyman.4375 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Nova.3817 said:
    you would need some sort of content to replace team que.... even tho that scene was killed when they introduced tourneys ;-(

    I’ve been think and wonder why team q when I can do ranked. Since they mentioned 2v2 arena I thought that could be the perfect thing to replace it. That way build diversity could sky rocket while keeping necro firebrand duos

    By build diversity you mean firebrand/scourge everywhere ?

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @everyman.4375 said:

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @Nova.3817 said:
    you would need some sort of content to replace team que.... even tho that scene was killed when they introduced tourneys ;-(

    I’ve been think and wonder why team q when I can do ranked. Since they mentioned 2v2 arena I thought that could be the perfect thing to replace it. That way build diversity could sky rocket while keeping necro firebrand duos

    By build diversity you mean firebrand/scourge everywhere ?

    That might end common but there would be different builds plus plenty of other specs are good in 2v2s like even some that considered meme like staff thief or dps FB are great in 2v2

  • Dantheman.3589Dantheman.3589 Member ✭✭✭

    @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    And this is why you don’t let the inmates run things. It turns into a disaster which is how pvp got to where it is today.

    I guess your calling me an inmate, but I don’t see how that’s true considering how I made the necro meta and was the first one well known player to play certain thief builds like sw/d and what is the now meta(ish) condi thief. Also still have a presence in other games too.But go ahead keep posting complete non-sense that doesn’t have anything to do with this discussion that I posted first.

    Yeah now he’s too scared to post when him and all his friends became irrelevant. This is exactly what I’m talking players in at’s aren’t good they are the only ones there because none of the actually good players what to play with them. They are unbelievably toxic and even when they throw in ranked they blame anyone even if that player was someone who is carrying them and is someone actually still relevant in pro scene. It’s funny when even top player guild like team USA aren’t even considered relevant in pro scene atm.

  • @Dantheman.3589 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:
    ATs killing pvp??? What in tarnation... this is a whole new level of crazy talk.

    You must not have read the post there are hundreds of examples(one of which I have listed) where balancing and I quote balancing around ats have killed builds. All that does is allow elitist like mAT winners like team usa to keep doing their thing without worrying about others. Tbh these at guys still throw all the time in ranked and yet still are the toxic guys. That is what’s killing pvp
    Plz think before posting

    thats not AT's fault, if winners are toxic ban them and move on, aint nobody gonna cry after them.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The dev's balance around mat's?
    Well then a big thanks to bluri for steering thief's balancing into the ground lol.
    In all seriousness tho the OP is all sorts of wrong but you can't be surprised can u?
    This is gw2 forum :)

  • Come on guys why are we talking about this again. This was literally only relevant for 2 weeks it’s been a ded meme ever since they added mats back