should all classes have weapon traits embedded into trait lines minors? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

should all classes have weapon traits embedded into trait lines minors?

was thinking about the recent ele update, and how awesome that change was.

Te lazla otstra.

should all classes have weapon traits embedded into trait lines minors? 25 votes

yes
64%
Curunen.8729AllNightPlayer.1286DonArkanio.6419InsaneQR.7412Arkantos.7460ToniKrieger.4293kasoki.5180rdigeri.7935Edge.8724Doto.6357Tycura.1982EmmetOtter.8542Engal.6359Delofasht.4231Arklite.4013Konrad Curze.5130 16 votes
no
36%
Conncept.7638Jack O Lights.9312MyPuppy.8970Yannir.4132Makuragee.3058steki.1478Stallic.2397Hoodie.1045Matoro.9708 9 votes

Comments

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It would depend on how they do it.

    Gut reaction thought: Yes, but only a CD reduction.

    Requiring weapon traits to change the weapons fundamental skills should not be part of that. IE burning arrows for warrior. Burning on auto should be baseline, not part of the trait.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭
    yes

    I think it Traits should be more about CHANGING the current skillset rather than straight buffing it. I'd love to see more traits being tied to weapons as well as changes to current skills.

  • Hoodie.1045Hoodie.1045 Member ✭✭✭✭
    no

    While it may seem nice to have traits that improve weapon or utility skills, some professions suffer from being forced into using certain traits because if they don't, they're negatively impacted for not using them depending on the game mode.

    Take the engineer's grenade kit and the trait associated with the kit, grenadier. Without the trait, its slow throw velocity and reduced explosion radius makes the kit worthless especially in PvP. Grenadier fixes these issues, but like I said it's a trait you have to use it due to how much better the kit works with it. Before it was made 100% mandatory in PvP, grenadier was very simple: throw three grenades instead of two (this was before three grenades were made baseline) at a 1,500 range. By today's standards, 1,500 range seems a bit extreme considering that the mortar kit exists. In order to make it not so mandatory, just make the throw velocity and explosion radius baseline and give it a 1,200 throw range with a 20% reduced cooldown on grenade skills.

    Karras

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hoodie.1045 said:
    snips

    ok... minors are the ones you don't have to choose.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭
    no

    In a lot of cases, the weapon is just buffed to a level that may or may not make it a competitive choice. If you are compelled to take the entire trait line if you use that weapon just for the buff, it doesn't even matter if it's a minor or major trait. It feels mandatory. Engineer using pistol pretty much has to use the pistol trait for a near 50% damage buff. It's wild. Meanwhile, the Rifle has no choices, and it used to, but they were rolled into the default state/removed, probably for the idea that it should just be good enough on its own. On one hand, you like to feel like your weapon choice is meaningful. On the other, it just improves efficiency. Taking another trait line to do something entirely new and more interesting sounds like a better deal to me. I sense the question is "do we let you buff your weapon?" and the answer is no, just tune them right to work well right off the bat, and add interesting synergies. E.g. Lesser Utility Goggles lets me use Overcharged Shot without getting knocked back.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Matoro.9708 said:
    If you are compelled to take the entire trait line if you use that weapon just for the buff, it doesn't even matter if it's a minor or major trait. It feels mandatory.
    E.g. Lesser Utility Goggles lets me use Overcharged Shot without getting knocked back.

    yeah, but you still get a freed up choice where ever that trait is.
    would be sweet to have some functionality changes via traits.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Matoro.9708Matoro.9708 Member ✭✭✭
    no

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Matoro.9708 said:
    If you are compelled to take the entire trait line if you use that weapon just for the buff, it doesn't even matter if it's a minor or major trait. It feels mandatory.
    E.g. Lesser Utility Goggles lets me use Overcharged Shot without getting knocked back.

    yeah, but you still get a freed up choice where ever that trait is.
    would be sweet to have some functionality changes via traits.

    Agreed. Cooldown reductions aren't interesting.

    Society either needs a turret rework or to free bobby schmurda and I wonder which comes first?

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019
    no

    Only ele because it has attunement traits instead of weapon traits and it always has access to its attunements. The recent ele update was a major QoL considering that you always had to lose a lot to gain something (you lose cdr on main damaging skills to gain some stats), while other classes got those bonuses regardless and those bonuses get increased while wielding specific weapon.

    Whats the point of having a minor trait that improves your sword skills/gives stats while wielding sword if your build doesn't even use swords, but benefits a lot from the spec? If you add sword bonuses on a trait which already has a functionality, you make the trait too powerful for a minor trait.

    You're also forgetting that attunements are class mechanic, not weapons, and those should always get cdr on minor traits. See warr bursts, thief's steal (which has both minor and major cdr trait) or mesmer shatters. Ele is basically 5+ years late to this trend.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:
    Only ele because it has attunement traits instead of weapon traits and it always has access to its attunements. The recent ele update was a major QoL considering that you always had to lose a lot to gain something (you lose cdr on main damaging skills to gain some stats), while other classes got those bonuses regardless and those bonuses get increased while wielding specific weapon.

    Whats the point of having a minor trait that improves your sword skills/gives stats while wielding sword if your build doesn't even use swords, but benefits a lot from the spec? If you add sword bonuses on a trait which already has a functionality, you make the trait too powerful for a minor trait.

    You're also forgetting that attunements are class mechanic, not weapons, and those should always get cdr on minor traits. See warr bursts, thief's steal (which has both minor and major cdr trait) or mesmer shatters. Ele is basically 5+ years late to this trend.

    huh, yeah I can't disagree with that.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Delofasht.4231Delofasht.4231 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019
    yes

    Picking a specific traitline used to come with stats attached to that line, when they moved away from that they changed the game drastically and the function of those traits in turn changed. When they did so, the differences between running one line or another ended up becoming less pronounced, and thus we have this world of traits that are always competing against each other.

    The result of having weapon traits is such that when you are in a specific trait line, you are doubly incentivized to pick that trait, making the other traits have to be extremely good to compete, or one is wasting their efforts being in that line at all. For several professions, that is a major drawback to going down a line without picking that weapon. By incorporating the CD reductions into the trait lines as passives, the design focus for those trait lines become centralized more around the weapon, and therefore builds become more focused around those weapons, making weapon choice almost define the build more frequently. This allows for more actual choice of traits, and less illusion of choice, it also means not having to make traits too strong that are on a column with a weapon trait.

    In short, there is a lot of benefit to implementing weapon traits baseline to a line for each profession, making balance decisions easier both in design and in game play. Replacement of existing traits do not need to be huge, and can be used to adjust current balance requests for professions in general, combining a lot of different workloads into a small number of changes at one time.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    yes

    Yes aaaaand no.
    If all weapon traits give a general benefit and reduce the CD of a certain weapon: yes, it would make sense due to the choice of said specialization.
    If some stay weird niche like and don't give general bonuses: nope these would be dead minors.

    Honestly I think a lot needs up to date refreshment. I propably do a redesign for each profession for fun at this point.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delofasht.4231 said:
    Picking a specific traitline used to come with stats attached to that line, when they moved away from that they changed the game drastically and the function of those traits in turn changed. When they did so, the differences between running one line or another ended up becoming less pronounced, and thus we have this world of traits that are always competing against each other.

    The result of having weapon traits is such that when you are in a specific trait line, you are doubly incentivized to pick that trait, making the other traits have to be extremely good to compete, or one is wasting their efforts being in that line at all. For several professions, that is a major drawback to going down a line without picking that weapon. By incorporating the CD reductions into the trait lines as passives, the design focus for those trait lines become centralized more around the weapon, and therefore builds become more focused around those weapons, making weapon choice almost define the build more frequently. This allows for more actual choice of traits, and less illusion of choice, it also means not having to make traits too strong that are on a column with a weapon trait.

    In short, there is a lot of benefit to implementing weapon traits baseline to a line for each profession, making balance decisions easier both in design and in game play. Replacement of existing traits do not need to be huge, and can be used to adjust current balance requests for professions in general, combining a lot of different workloads into a small number of changes at one time.

    well said sir.

    Te lazla otstra.

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