Future Plans: Competitive — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Plans: Competitive

Hello everyone!

During our Live Event today, we dropped some hints about our future plans for the competitive game modes. We wanted to go into a bit more detail here. This list is not all-inclusive, but has some of the bigger things that are currently on our list. Please keep in mind, this list is not carved in stone. Many of these plans could be changed dramatically or outright cancelled depending on changing priorities.

World Vs. World

Scaling Objective Rewards

We’re looking to add some additional rewards to WvW. One of the big ways we’re looking into doing this is added rewards for capturing and defending objectives that scale up based on how big the action was. For example successfully capturing a keep that was defended by 50 players should be a lot more rewarding than capturing a keep that was completely undefended.

World Restructuring

World restructuring, commonly referred to as the Alliance system, remains our top priority for WvW. We’re not going into details on this post, since a lot of detail has been released previously. We are still not in a place where we feel comfortable releasing a target date, but we are still working on it.

There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage. We have some early designs built around this and will be investigating them once World Restructuring is finished so it is a bit too early for us to go into details around the ideas, but we’re thinking about them.

sPvP

Monthly Tournaments

Getting monthly tournaments back on, is currently our #1 priority for PvP. We’re working on this as fast as we can. (Note: Fixes may already be live by the time this post is up.)

Swiss Tournaments

Swiss tournaments remain our top priority for sPvP. Our current plan is that once the system is ready, we’ll create some special tournaments using the swiss format. Given the complexity of the automated tournament system, there is almost certainly going to be issues that we cannot discover until the system is stressed with real players and teams. Once we’ve addressed issues coming from there, we will convert all automated tournaments to the swiss format.

Special Tournaments

At this point, we’re holding off on the return of special tournament formats (2v2, 3v3, Tournament of Legends), until after swiss tournaments are complete. But now that some other bugs have been resolved, we’re hoping to get these going on a more regularly cadence.

Mini-Seasons

We are currently planning on experimenting with mini-seasons with alternate game modes (2v2, 3v3, etc.) during what would normally be off-season time. The key tech we’re missing for this is currently getting additional rating types, as we currently only have ranked and unranked. We don’t feel it’s appropriate for your 2v2/3v3 rank to have any bearing on your conquest rank. We don’t have a timeframe for that change, however, it’s something we’re very interested in doing. Having conquest seasons not overlap with ranked queue for other game modes alleviates most of the concerns we have for splitting the population base.


Stéphane Lo Presti
Content Marketing Manager

Tagged:
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Comments

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    Is there any reason why 2v2 can't be a permanent mode, specially now that we have more maps? Just remove stronghold and make that the special tournament instead. I'm sure alot of people would agree with me.

  • @LePapaBoby.2457 said:
    Go for monthly gvg 15vs15 eotm arena instance & everything is forgiven

    ^This^

  • Hello Stephane,
    Please consider merging some wvw due to pop issues, also consider in doing weeks that only allow core specs or only hot specs , something that change the wvw meta at least for a week, this is some details u can do for wvw without a lot work and better to preserve the remaining population. btw in the forums they got better ideias than i said above that also can be implemented.
    ty

    HoD

  • Have you thought about officially supporting a competitive mode for guild vs. guild which includes leaderboards? The WvW alliance system is already a good attempt to make guilds relevant.

  • @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 Regarding WvW:
    At this stage, you could consider bringing back old practices like collaborative development initiatives, it is clear to me that there is a dedicated playerbase for WvW that is greatly invested in the gamemode, with plenty of opinions and ideas as to what the gamemode needs (and specially regarding things that are needed now, and that are needed in the future).

    Beyond the vague idea of alliances being a top priority that we will talk about in the future (as you've said, when it does release it will be a transitory process), we need a more concrete roadmap of what your plans are, ideas, or lack of, regarding the mode. A reason to play now, and to keep playing towards the point where world restructuring is implemented.
    Beyond rewards and moving pieces, the WvW community feels abandoned, even if some updates have happened to the mode, there is a lack of clear communication, and clear direction, to keep players invested.
    Please consider this, we don't expect you to make something appear out of thin air, we want a reason to believe that if we stick around there are great things to be expected, until you decide to stop developing the game.

    I personally was expecting at least some talk about new skills or traits in the future being added with the new saga, because that kind of things affect the whole game including WvW, and the lack of that was the source of my disappointment. I want world restructuring, it would improve things in wvw, but that alone is not a solution to all of the problems or lack of incentives that prevent the mode to thrive, so even if you say it is a top priority, what I understand is that it is due to the difficulty of developing it, but not because it is what is most urgent to be improved.
    Scaling rewards sounds great, the question is "which rewards will be scaled", as you'll quickly notice, wvw players soon reach a point in which there are no new things on the horizon to be excited about.
    Talk to us, do AMAs, do collaborative development initiatives, tell us what you expect from the mode, what's you plan for it beyond fixing imbalances that are caused by the lack of players (world restructuring).
    GW2 has confounded epic with emotional, and forgotten how to be epic for a long while.

  • And here I was hoping that we will finally drop the CtP game mode and would be moving back to Random Arena and Team Arena. Oh well, I guess I will keep avoiding PvP.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mini season sound great imo, ideally i'd have 2 seasons run together conquest and 2v2/3v3.

    Imo 3v3 could be a hit and you arent giving it the chance it deserves.

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage.

    Mini-Seasons

    hi steph, thanks for the update.
    a thought just occurred to me. what if we had 4 "hot zones" (one for na, eu, ocx, and sea) during the day where warscore is more valuable? these zones would occur during each time zones primetime and last for maybe 2-4 hours (4 is a safe and generous amount, would make sense to start every zone an hour early I think).

    stoked for mini seasons.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Cronos.6532Cronos.6532 Member ✭✭✭

    Can you guys also re-poll cannon blueprints? I think that people would be more likely to accept additional blueprints if placeable cannons were balanced by decreasing their damage or range, or increasing their supply and currency costs. They were close to being added to the game, but people voted no as they were too powerful at the time.

    signature

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    WILL WE BE ABLE TO MINIMIZE THE "QUEUE IS READY" WINDOW? THANK YOU!

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • WvW is in a very sad state at the moment at least on EU that I am playing. Unless you do something drastic fast, I am afraid it will be completely over sooner than you think.
    I am very sorry about that, honestly. I love wvw.

  • @Laivine.9308 said:
    WvW is in a very sad state at the moment at least on EU that I am playing. Unless you do something drastic fast, I am afraid it will be completely over sooner than you think.
    I am very sorry about that, honestly. I love wvw.

    It's pretty much the same in NA, it's incredibly dire and sad.

  • I really would like to see modes in wvw, such as capture the flag, Connect the nodes, domination (wvw already is that) but adding some pvp aspects.
    Assault mode humans vs cpu; in which objectives had to be met.
    So like adding dungeon aspects and fractals to it, but with a modern warfare feel to it.
    Rifles only mode.
    Alternatively fire weapons only mode.

  • On the contrary i was hoping more features that they might introduce or include later on, something more Utilities and Elite skills as the Living World goes forward.

    Urge

  • Ben K.6238Ben K.6238 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

    World Vs. World

    Scaling Objective Rewards

    We’re looking to add some additional rewards to WvW. One of the big ways we’re looking into doing this is added rewards for capturing and defending objectives that scale up based on how big the action was. For example successfully capturing a keep that was defended by 50 players should be a lot more rewarding than capturing a keep that was completely undefended.

    World Restructuring

    World restructuring, commonly referred to as the Alliance system, remains our top priority for WvW. We’re not going into details on this post, since a lot of detail has been released previously. We are still not in a place where we feel comfortable releasing a target date, but we are still working on it.

    There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage. We have some early designs built around this and will be investigating them once World Restructuring is finished so it is a bit too early for us to go into details around the ideas, but we’re thinking about them.

    Agreed that world restructuring isn't going to address those issues, and it's good to hear you've identified this, even if the pace is slower than we might like.

    I don't suppose there's a target season, or even year, for completing the first step?

  • enkidu.5937enkidu.5937 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage. We have some early designs built around this and will be investigating them once World Restructuring is finished so it is a bit too early for us to go into details around the ideas, but we’re thinking about them.

    Not sure what this means. You already had the concept of time-limited seasons / tournaments to provide true competition without burning the ppl out too much.

    Besides, I really like the current reward system that rewards just for playing the game.

    You could also reward ppl in short terms for winning the current skirmish, just to avoid burn out.

    I doubt that you can pull off a good concept where winning the matchups is rewarded. That would imo only lead to more toxicity, bandwaggoning / switching to alt accounts. Alliances will most likely increase the gap between casuals and pro's, so adding rewards for competitive play might not be a good idea in a game mode where match- / team-making is not skill-based.

    So maybe have a 1-week-competitive matchup every 4 weeks, where competitive players / alliances are matched together in T1-2 and casuals are matched in T3-5, according to their quality? But that would require a ranking system for players / guilds / alliances, that you don't want to provide (according to a former Anet post on alliances).

    You can't just throw "PPT-competitive Alliance A" into the same world with "PPK-competitive Alliance B" and casual Guilds and Randoms, and reward for winning.

    So, the new system should not move Worlds "one Tier up / one Tier down" every week, but instead Alliances / Guilds / Randoms, dependent on their contribution over time (and thus create new worlds every week). So, you would have casual play in Tier 3-5 and competitive play in Tier 1-2. True competitive play doesn't require significant rewards for winning. But for that you would have to introduce such a said ranking system.

    EDIT: just discovered that this thread is in the PvP section, so I might post this in WvW instead

  • reversing deadeye nerfs when

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    Two big Issue in WVW are missing:

    • Massive transfers directly after relinking destroy any balance relinking (or alliances) may establish.
    • There seem to be to many tiers for the remaining player, both in EU and NA.
  • Adzekul.3104Adzekul.3104 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    A lot of good points raised here by the player base. I have not read them all, but I want to make sure one of my pet points is made: Dev resource for Alliances needs to increase. As striderpj said in the first non-dev post, it is taking far too long for Alliances to be delivered, and so more dev resource needs to be added to the project in order to ensure it is delivered in full and largely without bugs in 2019.

    (I am not questioning the committment or skill of those working on Alliances, I am questioning management's decision to under-resource the project.)

  • Devote less people on the creation of useless new maps and armour, and put them on coding the ATs and Swiss instead.

  • alain.1659alain.1659 Member ✭✭✭

    Sorry but talking about cultural nuances of norns and charrs but not talking about wvw in your announcement was a hint enough. It is already more than 15 months that alliances were discussed. Rewards have always been a problem in wvw yet you introduced asc foods, which can be used in wvw but can be crafted only with pve.

    This post is just put here for some damage control after todays disappointment for wvw players. We are stilk sufferring from visual bugs, map bugs and lags yet no one even bothers to fix them.

    Ps: As my original post was deleted rightfully, I would like to share my thoughts on this again.

  • Answers in BOLD.

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:
    Hello everyone!

    During our Live Event today, we dropped some hints about our future plans for the competitive game modes. We wanted to go into a bit more detail here. This list is not all-inclusive, but has some of the bigger things that are currently on our list. Please keep in mind, this list is not carved in stone. Many of these plans could be changed dramatically or outright cancelled depending on changing priorities.

    >

    World Vs. World

    Scaling Objective Rewards

    We’re looking to add some additional rewards to WvW. One of the big ways we’re looking into doing this is added rewards for capturing and defending objectives that scale up based on how big the action was. For example successfully capturing a keep that was defended by 50 players should be a lot more rewarding than capturing a keep that was completely undefended.
    You need to thing in peole that cant find a Zerg or play with friends... the roaming players. We need to receive rewards too, but not a small reward and not the big one, but a decent reward, because we play, alone, but play.

    World Restructuring

    World restructuring, commonly referred to as the Alliance system, remains our top priority for WvW. We’re not going into details on this post, since a lot of detail has been released previously. We are still not in a place where we feel comfortable releasing a target date, but we are still working on it.

    There remain big issues in WvW there are not addressed by World Restructuring. The biggest one is finding a means to make winning mean something in WvW without motivating players to burn themselves out trying to maintain 24/7 coverage. We have some early designs built around this and will be investigating them once World Restructuring is finished so it is a bit too early for us to go into details around the ideas, but we’re thinking about them.
    The same answer I gave above, even though it is a multiplayer game, there are still cases that you play alone, I think you should make it possible somehow and have smaller challenges for those who play alone and challenges for those who are in a party / squad.

    >

    sPvP

    Monthly Tournaments

    Getting monthly tournaments back on, is currently our #1 priority for PvP. We’re working on this as fast as we can. (Note: Fixes may already be live by the time this post is up.)

    Swiss Tournaments

    Swiss tournaments remain our top priority for sPvP. Our current plan is that once the system is ready, we’ll create some special tournaments using the swiss format. Given the complexity of the automated tournament system, there is almost certainly going to be issues that we cannot discover until the system is stressed with real players and teams. Once we’ve addressed issues coming from there, we will convert all automated tournaments to the swiss format.

    Special Tournaments

    At this point, we’re holding off on the return of special tournament formats (2v2, 3v3, Tournament of Legends), until after swiss tournaments are complete. But now that some other bugs have been resolved, we’re hoping to get these going on a more regularly cadence.

    Mini-Seasons

    We are currently planning on experimenting with mini-seasons with alternate game modes (2v2, 3v3, etc.) during what would normally be off-season time. The key tech we’re missing for this is currently getting additional rating types, as we currently only have ranked and unranked. We don’t feel it’s appropriate for your 2v2/3v3 rank to have any bearing on your conquest rank. We don’t have a timeframe for that change, however, it’s something we’re very interested in doing. Having conquest seasons not overlap with ranked queue for other game modes alleviates most of the concerns we have for splitting the population base.

  • Ziggityzog.7389Ziggityzog.7389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah I see this as just a smoke screen of "really really really we plan on doing something in pvp"

    while also

    "hey look every month there is shiny new items to buy chairs, mounts, armor, gliders, mailers, weapons, gizmos, gadgets, and other worthless junk!". "We even have a brand new giant map with story every few months".

    Pvp with small maps and easy fixes must be way harder then building a new map section with story and side quests. Odd, almost like there is a total lack of caring but acting as there is.

  • Blackfish.7349Blackfish.7349 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    "We’re looking to add some additional rewards to WvW. One of the big ways we’re looking into doing this is added rewards for capturing and defending objectives that scale up based on how big the action was. For example successfully capturing a keep that was defended by 50 players should be a lot more rewarding than capturing a keep that was completely undefended."

    so capturing a garrison T3 with a few roaming group that takes walls down quietly while forcing swords in other maps, hiding between walls, waiting a while for teammates to resupply for inner door, then coordinating with a public or private badge to attack objectives simultaneously so the roam group gains some seconds, getting inside, fight in small scale 5vs5 while those five are calling for the zerg to defend, fight the lord at the same time and manage to win and then cap before main zerg arrives....ALL THIS STRATEGY COORDINATED PLAYING should be less rewarding than 50 guys fighting each other inside a keep, with half of each team just pressing button ONE without any knowledge about WvW?

    I have seen you playing ANET in streams and I know you have no skills and knowledge about GW2 WvW, but, do you pretend all WvW players to be like you? Why all changes are in the "favor the random" direction? Why you promote mindless zerguing in this game? I imagine you have statistically analized data and these randoms are the ones buying your black lion things but you must know that the quality of play is dramatically decreasing because skilled players are leaving. You must work in two parallel paths, promote newbies and skilled at the same time. Skilled need challenges, they do not want rewards just by pressing ONE with a zerg. Skilled are not looking for rewards, they are looking for challenges and acknowledgement.

  • Khyell.7549Khyell.7549 Member
    edited August 31, 2019

    When will you guys work on the spvp points system? The current system is really outdated compared to other games who have ranked stuff. It seems like it takes a lifetime for you to rank up, since you gotta win a bunch of matches in a row (which is quite hard most of the time because the balance of teams is also broken).

  • Nebilim.5127Nebilim.5127 Member ✭✭✭

    @Trigr.6481 said:
    Our current plan is that ONCE the system is ready,
    ONCE we’ve addressed issues coming from there
    UNTIL after swiss tournaments are complete
    We DON'T have a timeframe for that change

    So what DO you have? This is textbook classical typical A-net lingo. When it comes to 2's AT tournament, since LAST OCTOBER, how many of those happened? None. Oh but don't worry guys a-net said they wanted to do multiple 2's tournaments, has it happened? No. Don't believe a word they say. When the 2's tournament came out tons of people joined, you said you'd use that as a gauge to get an idea of player interest, what more could you possibly need? Splitting the playerbase? Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the overall goal to collectively get more people into Heart of the Mists? Like lets play a hypothetical and say 2's comes out tomorrow and had it's own que. Would people arguably leave conquest to go play 2's in which is easier to form a team, and you don't have to play with randoms? Yes. But the downtime to the game mode would only be temporary. As long as it's done right, has it's own que, and is successful, then then new influx of players would easily be worth conquest taking a hit for a month or two.

    You people are so scared to pull the trigger it's insane, you'd rather sit there and make false promises, "actually promises implies you following through on what you say, that couldn't be farther from the truth" while your game decays, slowly. Ok sorry about the rant, back to classic wow.

    Countless

    I just want to reinforce this post. Stop worrying about imaginary problems and let players decide what's good for them or not. PvP already a dying mode, giving us more ways to spend our time there won't hurt anyone and if it does, you can just roll back, BUT GIVE A DARN CHANCE TO BEGIN WITH.

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 31, 2019

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

    World Restructuring

    World restructuring, commonly referred to as the Alliance system, remains our top priority for WvW. We’re not going into details on this post, since a lot of detail has been released previously. We are still not in a place where we feel comfortable releasing a target date, but we are still working on it.

    Can you give any comment on how confident you are in this feature progressing further? You are not comfortable with releasing a target date, but what does that mean?

    Do you believe your current theories/algorithms have been successful in making balanced alliances based on however you test/simulate them, and are moving to implement the calculations?

    Are you working on prepping the tech needed to move people onto teams with guilds and other considerations?

    Are you working on interface? Is there any serious risks for alliances simply not working in balancing the teams?

    If your testing/simulation is failing to get good results:

    • Are you confident that you can write logic that succeeds?
    • Are you willing to concede that team balance may not be workable.
    • Have you considered other ways to improve how WvW is played, or is alliances a must succeeded feature with no alternatives?
  • @MaLeVoLenT.8129 said:
    ArenaNet: We messed up. They are going CRAZY on us. They know we don't care about WVW!!! Quick Do something fast!

    2019 and you still complain about the game lol

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Stephane Lo Presti.7258 said:

    Getting monthly tournaments back on, is currently our #1 priority for PvP. We’re working on this as fast as we can. (Note: Fixes may already be live by the time this post is up.)

    Swiss tournaments remain our top priority for sPvP.

    As these are both your top priority, is that an indication that they are being worked on simultaneously with relatively equal allocation of resources?

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