Lets presume Anet reworks the staff abilities from the necromancer — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Lets presume Anet reworks the staff abilities from the necromancer

Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

To be stronger in the condition department, what would the chances be for scourge traitlines to be changes as well?

Comments

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    wrong forum.
    And scourges already have scepter+torch. They dont need another condi weapon.
    If anything staff should be a perfect weapon to support minion builds.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    wrong forum.
    And scourges already have scepter+torch. They dont need another condi weapon.
    If anything staff should be a perfect weapon to support minion builds.

    Mesmers have a stronger condi set up with their weapons than the necromancer
    Where the necromancer has more power options then condi option build in their weapons

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Rico.6873 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    wrong forum.
    And scourges already have scepter+torch. They dont need another condi weapon.
    If anything staff should be a perfect weapon to support minion builds.

    Mesmers have a stronger condi set up with their weapons than the necromancer
    Where the necromancer has more power options then condi option build in their weapons

    Necro only have Axe and Greatsword as viable power weapons. Main hand dagger does not count, too weak and lacks in lifeforce generation. And warhorn got seriously nerfbatted as a poweroffhand, no longer used for damage.

  • Diak Atoli.2085Diak Atoli.2085 Member ✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    wrong forum.
    And scourges already have scepter+torch. They dont need another condi weapon.
    If anything staff should be a perfect weapon to support minion builds.

    Mesmers have a stronger condi set up with their weapons than the necromancer
    Where the necromancer has more power options then condi option build in their weapons

    To take your example: Necromancer have absolutely no minion support on their weapon sets, while Mesmers almost always have (at least one?) Phantasm or Clone skill.

    My support goes to Minion Staff rework.

  • Khisanth.2948Khisanth.2948 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nearly anything would be better than the current version ... unless it retains all the current problems of course.

  • Rico.6873Rico.6873 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi Scourge has Scepter/Torch - Staff and Reaper has Axe/Warhorn (For speedboost and interrupt) - Greatsword
    Healing scourge uses dagger and I'm not sure why Focus exists/is used for

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:
    Condi Scourge has Scepter/Torch - Staff and Reaper has Axe/Warhorn (For speedboost and interrupt) - Greatsword
    Healing scourge uses dagger and I'm not sure why Focus exists/is used for

    Focus is used in pvp for boonstrip with F5. But F4 is pretty good burst lifeforce I find.

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    Only complete condiset on Scourge tho, the core offhands are terrible. Few classes have viable core builds, Necromancers is not among them.

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭

    How about a dang block on staff?

    Dilly Dilly

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Good to know. I haven't followed necro in a long term. Not even sure what their core options ate these days, if any.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Good to know. I haven't followed necro in a long term. Not even sure what their core options ate these days, if any.

    Offhand dagger with condition transfer
    Offhand warhorn with daze and speedboost
    Offhand focus with lifeforce burst gain and boonstrip

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    sword/sword and longbow say hello
    Edit
    Pretty sure this is still viable is it better then elite specs probabely not but they do have core condi spec.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Rabid_Condi_Longbow

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    sword/sword and longbow say hello
    Edit
    Pretty sure this is still viable is it better then elite specs probabely not but they do have core condi spec.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Rabid_Condi_Longbow

    This is such an old build, far outcompeted by berzerker that you are crippling yourself comparatively if you actually run this. The only way longbow and sword are viable is with the berserker F1. Otherwise, they are well behind in dmg output.

    It was a good build back in the day... Before HoT.

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I would rather they rework staff to lean more into support.

    My list of suggestions for GW2
    Max Masteries | 18k AP

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    sword/sword and longbow say hello
    Edit
    Pretty sure this is still viable is it better then elite specs probabely not but they do have core condi spec.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Rabid_Condi_Longbow

    This is such an old build, far outcompeted by berzerker that you are crippling yourself comparatively if you actually run this. The only way longbow and sword are viable is with the berserker F1. Otherwise, they are well behind in dmg output.

    It was a good build back in the day... Before HoT.

    You do know what a viable condi build means right?

  • Opopanax.1803Opopanax.1803 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    sword/sword and longbow say hello
    Edit
    Pretty sure this is still viable is it better then elite specs probabely not but they do have core condi spec.
    https://metabattle.com/wiki/Build:Warrior_-_Rabid_Condi_Longbow

    This is such an old build, far outcompeted by berzerker that you are crippling yourself comparatively if you actually run this. The only way longbow and sword are viable is with the berserker F1. Otherwise, they are well behind in dmg output.

    It was a good build back in the day... Before HoT.

    You do know what a viable condi build means right?

    I don't think you do when you recommend a core condi warrior build, lol!

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    My first reaction was: "aow... A thread on the staff again..."
    And then I saw a comparison between mesmer's and necromancer condition...
    To finally end up on a warrior condi build argument...

    Necromancer's staff have it's pros and cons, it may not be a good weapon to deal damage but it's pretty good for the utility it give you.

    On the condition aspect, the necromancer capitalize on condition duration more than condition intensity, which allow him to build a steady amount of damage over a long time while the mesmer (and most other profession) capitalize on intensity over duration which allow them "burst" of condition damage (you can sure argue that it's permanent burst but that's a design flaw not a proof of their weapon being better). Those bursts are very effective in PvP but ultimately the philosophy behind condition damage is closest to what the necromancer's do. If anything other professions should have their condi build behave like the necromancer's not the opposite. Which mean that the necromancer's condi weapon set have a "better" design than the other profession's condi weapon sets.

    As for the warrior... well, he is not dead yet so there no reason for any necromancer to already try to make him rise from the deads.

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    as long as they don’t touch it for pvp I am happy

  • Stand The Wall.6987Stand The Wall.6987 Member ✭✭✭✭

    as long as staff 2 gets more power damage, I don't care which direction a staff rework would go.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rico.6873 said:
    To be stronger in the condition department, what would the chances be for scourge traitlines to be changes as well?

    Considering they have no dependence on each other, I would say zero.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited August 30, 2019

    @Opopanax.1803 said:
    Warriors don't even have a baseline core condi weapon or a viable core Condi build! At least necros have a good Condi weapon set!!

    That is not a fair comparison. Core War has things core Necro does not and vice versa. This is why there are elite specializations. Even then, War and Necro are still different. Look at the whole package, not individual pieces.

    As far as Scourge condi dps goes, it does all right for an Elite with a lot of AoE and support. Shroud-sharing was a great innovation.

    I would rather have core Necro condi dps increased. Even in condition damage builds, core Necro has very low cleave without Epi so it could have higher single target condi-dps than it does, though a split with PvP on scepter may be needed.

    See other threads for staff discussions.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    Remove Marks from the game.

    Make Staff melee.

    Has Scythe aesthetic when wielded.

    Make every single Scythe hippie happy.

    Staff should have loads of AoE cleave, cooldowns ranging from 5s to 20s and lots of Bleed effects.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • Utility is half decent just speed up the AA. Then if you feel like knocking our face off speed up focus 4 projectile to match.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:
    Remove Marks from the game.

    Make Staff melee.

    Has Scythe aesthetic when wielded.

    Make every single Scythe hippie happy.

    Staff should have loads of AoE cleave, cooldowns ranging from 5s to 20s and lots of Bleed effects.

    You are cloning greatsword right there, which is our 'scythe', especially with Exordium.

  • Yasai.3549Yasai.3549 Member ✭✭✭

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    You are cloning greatsword right there, which is our 'scythe', especially with Exordium.

    Yea :D

    I want it to be core.

    If I play a stupid build, I deserve to die.
    If I beat people on a stupid build, I deserve to get away with it.

  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:

    @Yasai.3549 said:

    You are cloning greatsword right there, which is our 'scythe', especially with Exordium.

    Yea :D

    I want it to be core.

    A greatsword clone will never happen, alas. Revenants and Daredevils already toys with melee staves.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Diak Atoli.2085 said:

    @Rico.6873 said:

    @LucianDK.8615 said:
    wrong forum.
    And scourges already have scepter+torch. They dont need another condi weapon.
    If anything staff should be a perfect weapon to support minion builds.

    Mesmers have a stronger condi set up with their weapons than the necromancer
    Where the necromancer has more power options then condi option build in their weapons

    To take your example: Necromancer have absolutely no minion support on their weapon sets, while Mesmers almost always have (at least one?) Phantasm or Clone skill.

    My support goes to Minion Staff rework.

    The issue here is gw2 does not make minions a staple mechanic of the necormancer. They are a utility only and they are pretty bad. Save minion shuggestions for when anet actually wants to make them decent.

    A staple mechanic would be Boon Corruption and Marks

    If you want staff to be a good weapon remove some marks from it and spread them to other weapons much like guardians symbols and mesmer clone and phantom skills

    Give staff proper auto attach chain giving them a modest but not overly strong 1200 ranged power attack.

    Any marks that remain should by default have at least 2 charges with a lowered cooldown nothing over 25s assuming their effectiveness remains as they are now (which is quite low)

    Note anyone saying that staff is fine needs a reality check staff skills have not been updated since 2015 with the exception of chillbains which got a nerf with the condi culling meta patch.

  • ZDragon.3046ZDragon.3046 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @dceptaconroy.7928 said:
    Utility is half decent just speed up the AA. Then if you feel like knocking our face off speed up focus 4 projectile to match.

    ??? adding more charges to marks 3,4,5
    ??? lowering the cds on on marks 3,4,5

    spreading marks to other weapons making the trait soul marks usable all around instead of smashing them all on staff???
    staff is living 2015 its now 2019???

    Even if you like the current kit of staff there is nothing wrong with making it more effective i dont consider it an effective utility weapon for the meta of 2019
    Unless maybe you play wvw which in that case its just smashing thoughtless marks on the ground (cause people in zergs are bound to hit them.) for open world and pvp though its hardly good imo. I stopped using staff ages ago. You can practically ignore almost everything it can provide most classes wont care to run through staff marks these days cause the marks are no real threat even more so against classes that already counter necro with heavy condi cleanse or resistance.

    Its not like a mesmer staff where it becomes utility defense with good condi damage and kite potential (even more so when combined with mirage) you swap to staff and its just asking to be killed.

    My biggest hang up with staff is the effectiveness of the skills vs the cooldowns + the need of soul marks ontop its alot of investment for not alot of reward. It may not be bad but it most certainly could be BETTER.

    ITs a core necro weapon that got no love with the addition of elite specs and it shows very bluntly.

  • Yeah well dragon I'd be happy as Larry if they adjusted it as you mentioned, of course. I just cant see them bothering, it's too hard wrk. Notice I say half decent.

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