Nice changes anet :) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Nice changes anet :)

Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/85188/potential-future-balance-changes/p1

TLDR
We noticed that mesmer is not utterly worthles on mid fights, so we decided to nerf Illusion of Life by about 50%, now the class should be in its rightfull place.
Since we removed Chaotic Interuption last patch and dont feel like adding it back we gonna give you something useless so you cant select it anymore, please enjoy.

At least chaos storm rng interrupt is gone. Propably overall nerf too but i welcome it. No more 2x chaos storm res/stop denial i guess another hit to mid fights.
Dont care about mantras, they suck anyways. How about fix some freaking bugs like ambushes hitting walls, phantasms being kitten clones not attacking targets or thievery randomly not working, ugh.

<1

Comments

  • hmm there's likely going to be a low CD to chaotic interruption to avoid multiple target procs in one skill, but it is interesting. Could be hilarious if you're lucky with Domi/Chaos/Chrono (2x2 berserkers every 7 seconds)

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @praqtos.9035 said:
    TLDR : We noticed someone still playing the class, we decided to delete everything they have left, we even deleted chrono to make sure it dies, someone still playing and making videos about it, we dont like it.
    Chaos interruption existed? Pffff, after the changes it wont. (it was hard to remove immob, so hard to do... trash coders lol)
    And its WvW focused about ZERGS... mantras...zergs..does it really oneshot entire blobs? Or its "balanced" around stupid ascended stats and offensive/defensive food*?
    Yet another power mesmer nerf as a whole instead of condi mirage, lul

    I dont even think condi needs nerfs anymore, had premade 5v5 games yesterday.
    enemy team had DPS firebrand that didnt take any dmg from me, projectile block,reflect,block,evade,invul,cleanse,heal,resistance.... 60s of whacking him nonstop, no damge, nothing. deadeye arrives, he dies in 0,5s. facepalm.

  • I can understand the Mantra and Chaos Storm changes, but why nerf Illusion of Life? I haven't seen that skill used in ages. Also, the new chaotic interruption seems... utterly random. I mean, I don't PVP with Mesmers that often, but last I checked they don't really spam their weapon skills that much. They're more tactical. At most, you have a 3/5 chance of reducing one skill, and a 2/5 chance of doing nothing.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I can understand the Mantra and Chaos Storm changes, but why nerf Illusion of Life? I haven't seen that skill used in ages. Also, the new chaotic interruption seems... utterly random. I mean, I don't PVP with Mesmers that often, but last I checked they don't really spam their weapon skills that much. They're more tactical. At most, you have a 3/5 chance of reducing one skill, and a 2/5 chance of doing nothing.

    ANet probably saw use it in a WvW zerg fight where it does have a short CD, a short cast time and a reliable probability to effectively rally a player. This skill have the same issue than necromancer's LF gain from death, it's unexpectidly super effective in zerg fight and almost useless everywhere else. If you take into account that the whole patch seem to be focused on shortening the zergs fights in WvW, the change is "logical". (Obviously, as soon as you take into account more than zergs fight, it's just the skill being nerfed to oblivion)

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Levetty.1279 said:
    That CI is what took so long to implement?

    Ok.

    nope they removed it from the game, and didnt want it there so they gave us kitten trait like that so we cant say they didnt gave it back, but inr eality they might as well keep it blocked.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    If chaos storm is 1st tick only and nothing else, then it is a nerf overall because opponents will know after the first tick to just facetank in it and pressure you anyway (especially with CI proposed change so no worry about immobilise anymore). On a 35s base cooldown that would be pretty bad, especially given how bad staff 4 also is untraited anyway.

    There should be a quality of life for predictable daze on one of the ticks - first, second or last, but should also be rng daze around that as present - or have some other compensation if removing remaining daze.

    this rng daze was annoying and im glad its removed, but it IS a nerf. in the end im preety sure cmirage will be by far THE WORST class/spec for midfights, with literarly nothing to bring.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    If chaos storm is 1st tick only and nothing else, then it is a nerf overall because opponents will know after the first tick to just facetank in it and pressure you anyway (especially with CI proposed change so no worry about immobilise anymore). On a 35s base cooldown that would be pretty bad, especially given how bad staff 4 also is untraited anyway.

    There should be a quality of life for predictable daze on one of the ticks - first, second or last, but should also be rng daze around that as present - or have some other compensation if removing remaining daze.

    this rng daze was annoying and im glad its removed, but it IS a nerf. in the end im preety sure cmirage will be by far THE WORST class/spec for midfights, with literarly nothing to bring.

    I just don't want staff to end up being even more of a "1+2" spam weapon with three mediocre skills two of which are on long cooldowns.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Chaos storm daze being only on first tick would dramatically reduce it's strength. They should add a stacking effect on the storm, daze on first tick and after they take 3 hits from the storm they get dazed again. Then it's predictable, and the enemy can still tank it if they want, but they know standing in it is still not good, then the skill still gets to perform it's functionality, that of zoning enemies off that area.

    Another option would be to reduce the CD on it, since it is currently fairly long.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    PvP view :

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    

    Yeah nerf the only skill left who can have game impact if used at the right moment in PvP. There is too much mesmers in top 100 btw...

        Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    

    Don't mind.

        Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    

    Ok, then the issue is that this skill is as much used for offensive rupt as for defensive rupt. So basically that's a big defensive nerf in thoses common situations :

    • You are running/kitting a SB, you can't rupt key skills anymore. (And no it's not a good idead to stay melee versus this.).
    • You are running/kitting a Holo, you can't rupt key skills anymore. (Basically it mean get hit for 8k+.).
    • You are facing a thief, you will get very hard time rupting him with his back teleports.

    While all thoses crappy class can temporize while not facing ennemies... Same for other top 5 metabattle class who can use aoe from behind with no target.
    Thanks anet to add more nerf to IoL and PowerLock (after nerfing confusion) so that all casuals players can play mindlessly and enjoy the game by promoting pegi4 gameplay ...

        Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    

    Nice, now people can facetank in AoE during stomp/rez. As say above, let's make staff a 2 spells weapon.

        Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    

    In which world a mesmer with all gameplay oriented about shatter have usefull weapon skill ????

    I have just a question : what is mesmer supposed to do in PvP ?
    +1 : no.
    duel : no.
    teamfight (heal, cc, aoe damage or boon remove) : no.
    kisscool utility (like portal/moa/IoL.) : no.
    noob eater : yes as it will always be as long as there is noob who can't select mesmer between his clone.

    sums it up, first timing thief is stronger and more fun the playing mirage that i tryharded for 4+ months. lets nerf some more Poggers.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    How is Mesmer/mirage after the recent nerfs? anyone able to answer me please?

    Did they go overkill? pvp and WVW and just curious.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

  • Curunen.8729Curunen.8729 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

    Let me sum up these 3 posts. "We won't be happy until Mesmer is useless in any PVP/WVW Content because Reasons."

    Maybe I should have added /s

    My ears, how are you! | Hammer Mesmer - elite spec concept.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

    Let me sum up these 3 posts. "We won't be happy until Mesmer is useless in any PVP/WVW Content because Reasons."

    You can ignore of all of BadMeds posts. He brings nothing of value to the table as far as constructive criticism goes so it’s best to ignore him and move on.

    Someone failed to ignore. But I won't ignore nor I will be mesmerised. Messmer needs more nerfs!

    And where are the vids/screens of you playing mesmer to highlight how op it is ?

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

    Let me sum up these 3 posts. "We won't be happy until Mesmer is useless in any PVP/WVW Content because Reasons."

    You can ignore of all of BadMeds posts. He brings nothing of value to the table as far as constructive criticism goes so it’s best to ignore him and move on.

    Someone failed to ignore. But I won't ignore nor I will be mesmerised. Messmer needs more nerfs!

    And where are the vids/screens of you playing mesmer to highlight how op it is ?

    No. I don't often play the broken class. I only try it sometimes. Anyhow, posting a video to prove it is irrelevant.

    The simple fact that a class is able to dish out incredible amount of CC, insane Condi pressure with confusion, torment and bleeding and yet be able to effortlessly disengage at will is absurd and should not exist in game. Surely the Mirage has been toned down slightly by Anet. But there is way more needed to make this spec fair in matchups. I don't understand why most of you insist on saving this utterly broken spec. Maybe you are just incapable of playing other classes that are far more balanced.

    There is a reason why I only complain about Mesmer. The other specs are fine and the game is great. Only Mesmer needs HEAVY HANDED nerfs.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

    Let me sum up these 3 posts. "We won't be happy until Mesmer is useless in any PVP/WVW Content because Reasons."

    You can ignore of all of BadMeds posts. He brings nothing of value to the table as far as constructive criticism goes so it’s best to ignore him and move on.

    Someone failed to ignore. But I won't ignore nor I will be mesmerised. Messmer needs more nerfs!

    And where are the vids/screens of you playing mesmer to highlight how op it is ?

    No. I don't often play the broken class. I only try it sometimes. Anyhow, posting a video to prove it is irrelevant.

    The simple fact that a class is able to dish out incredible amount of CC, insane Condi pressure with confusion, torment and bleeding and yet be able to effortlessly disengage at will is absurd and should not exist in game. Surely the Mirage has been toned down slightly by Anet. But there is way more needed to make this spec fair in matchups. I don't understand why most of you insist on saving this utterly broken spec. Maybe you are just incapable of playing other classes that are far more balanced.

    There is a reason why I only complain about Mesmer. The other specs are fine and the game is great. Only Mesmer needs HEAVY HANDED nerfs.

    Hmm, other meta spec have all you listed but in AOE version or better in single target (here where mesmer is single target) so they are fine. Thanks for this obvious contradiction.

    Also we are many to think a video of you perform in a broken class can had more weight to your spams in every balance post in this forum.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @phokus.8934 said:

    @Richard Marcinko.5132 said:

    @BadMed.3846 said:
    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW.
    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work. I understand there will be many cries but this is the right direction. We need the same CD increase and duration decrease across all Mesmer skills.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Welcome change again. Make these mesmers do some work rather than spam skills. But we still need nerfs to this skill.

    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Same as above but still neeeds nerfs.

    Chaos Storm: This skill now always dazes on the first strike but can no longer randomly daze on other strikes. This change also applies to Lesser Chaos Storm. Added skill fact to show chaos storm's duration.
    Welcome change again. CC reduction is needed. Mesmers must loose at least 60% of their current CC abilities.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    This is stil going to be overpowered. Any reduction to mesmer CDs is not welcome. Please remove the CD reduction.

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @Curunen.8729 said:
    ^
    Illusionary Warden: removed the defensive bubble. This phantasm now only throws axes.
    Still overpowered, it already does damage as well as spawning a clone after its attack, it should only do one or the other.

    ye Medic is getting HARD reading these changes, ill add my own.
    Mind Stab it deals damage AND removes a boon.
    Still overpowered, it already deals damage and removes boon, it shold just remove a boon. Not both.

    Let me sum up these 3 posts. "We won't be happy until Mesmer is useless in any PVP/WVW Content because Reasons."

    You can ignore of all of BadMeds posts. He brings nothing of value to the table as far as constructive criticism goes so it’s best to ignore him and move on.

    Someone failed to ignore. But I won't ignore nor I will be mesmerised. Messmer needs more nerfs!

    And where are the vids/screens of you playing mesmer to highlight how op it is ?

    No. I don't often play the broken class. I only try it sometimes. Anyhow, posting a video to prove it is irrelevant.

    The simple fact that a class is able to dish out incredible amount of CC, insane Condi pressure with confusion, torment and bleeding and yet be able to effortlessly disengage at will is absurd and should not exist in game. Surely the Mirage has been toned down slightly by Anet. But there is way more needed to make this spec fair in matchups. I don't understand why most of you insist on saving this utterly broken spec. Maybe you are just incapable of playing other classes that are far more balanced.

    There is a reason why I only complain about Mesmer. The other specs are fine and the game is great. Only Mesmer needs HEAVY HANDED nerfs.

    Hmm, other meta spec have all you listed but in AOE version or better in single target (here where mesmer is single target) so they are fine. Thanks for this obvious contradiction.

    Also we are many to think a video of you perform in a broken class can had more weight to your spams in every balance post in this forum.

    I dont even know what he talks about CC, current "meta" mesmer has, daze on f3, stun on pistol 5, cripple on 4, and random daze on storm 5.
    meanwhile other classes have kitten like warriors cripple on gs4, knockdown on bullcharge, knockdown on jump, daze/stun on dagger, 3 stuns on rampage and daze on fullcounter, all on low cooldowns, no costs and AOE.

    Other classes are able to get one shot if they are able to one shot others. Unlike Mirage who can still one shot most classes but can never ever get one shot itself.

  • BadMed.3846BadMed.3846 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Mirage is only good against bads. Those are the ones who never stop complaining about it.

    Only Mirage is good. I guess that makes players of all other classes bad. I agree.

    Let's move beyond good, bad, gold, silver, plat etc. Let's fix condition spamming and one shotter Mirage that is super skilled in avoiding combat at will.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @Twilight Tempest.7584 said:
    Mirage is only good against bads. Those are the ones who never stop complaining about it.

    Only Mirage is good. I guess that makes players of all other classes bad. I agree.

    Let's move beyond good, bad, gold, silver, plat etc. Let's fix condition spamming and one shotter Mirage that is super skilled in avoiding combat at will.

    never seen "1shot" mirage after i left silver, so keep at it and soon enaught you will be free of them too. as for condi spam, well use cleanse/resist? oh wait you cant becouse power warrior will 1shot you with 12k arcing :D.
    Sorry poor ele, didnt mean to do that to you :/

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I can understand the Mantra and Chaos Storm changes, but why nerf Illusion of Life? I haven't seen that skill used in ages. Also, the new chaotic interruption seems... utterly random. I mean, I don't PVP with Mesmers that often, but last I checked they don't really spam their weapon skills that much. They're more tactical. At most, you have a 3/5 chance of reducing one skill, and a 2/5 chance of doing nothing.

    I can see it being pretty good. Presumably auto attacks won't be included in the resets. I like the idea of using it on staff sword/torch in a mirage interrupt build. You get a ton of safety skills that can have their CD reduced. Almost every skill on staff is something I would want it to proc on, and same with sword/torch. With infinite horizon clones spamming the sword ambush, mantra of distraction, and diversion, that's a lot of potential procs, that the mesmer can really benefit from.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    Mesmer
    Illusion of Life

    Welcome change. Thank you ANET. We needed exactly this type of re-work.

    It's not something glorious like a rework, it's just a plain nerf.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I can understand the Mantra and Chaos Storm changes, but why nerf Illusion of Life? I haven't seen that skill used in ages. Also, the new chaotic interruption seems... utterly random. I mean, I don't PVP with Mesmers that often, but last I checked they don't really spam their weapon skills that much. They're more tactical. At most, you have a 3/5 chance of reducing one skill, and a 2/5 chance of doing nothing.

    I can see it being pretty good. Presumably auto attacks won't be included in the resets. I like the idea of using it on staff sword/torch in a mirage interrupt build. You get a ton of safety skills that can have their CD reduced. Almost every skill on staff is something I would want it to proc on, and same with sword/torch. With infinite horizon clones spamming the sword ambush, mantra of distraction, and diversion, that's a lot of potential procs, that the mesmer can really benefit from.

    IF it procs only on skills that are on cooldown, immagine procing it 6 times during a duel, yes grandmaster that you proced 6 kitten times ALMOST gives you 1 extra chaos storm, and you have some long cds there like torch 4,5 staff 5 AND some abilities that are not spammed like sword 2,3 staff 2. so most of the times you wont even proc it, when you do proc it, its gonna be on something with super long cd so it doesnt matter, and when you proc it on something with low cd, its propably reactive ability that is used in niche and not just spammed off cd meaning you cant make any use of it. there is ALOT of things that can go wrong with this trait.

  • @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I can understand the Mantra and Chaos Storm changes, but why nerf Illusion of Life? I haven't seen that skill used in ages. Also, the new chaotic interruption seems... utterly random. I mean, I don't PVP with Mesmers that often, but last I checked they don't really spam their weapon skills that much. They're more tactical. At most, you have a 3/5 chance of reducing one skill, and a 2/5 chance of doing nothing.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/86662/future-potential-wvw-centric-balance-changes-september-6th-2019/p1
    "Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe."

    So you don't have to worry about the 3 of 4 skills (auto attacks don't have CD so it's not out of 5) randomly recharging. If you spam 1 skill and only 1 skill + interrupts, you can start to get insane spam on it. Consider Sword mirage. Use blurred frenzy. Then ambush to interrupt. This brings sword 2 CD down to (8-5) = 3 seconds. 1 of those 3 seconds is spent ambushing anyways. Don't use any other weapon skill. You can now spam evades and blurred frenzy like crazy. That's tactical spam. Then consider the next part...

    @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:
    hmm there's likely going to be a low CD to chaotic interruption to avoid multiple target procs in one skill, but it is interesting. Could be hilarious if you're lucky with Domi/Chaos/Chrono (2x2 berserkers every 7 seconds)

    I don't think it will have an ICD and berserkers will likely be the least interesting combo.
    https://giphy.com/gifs/Vhv8cB0LDs5BPeCdcf
    Duelist discipline doesn't have an ICD and has a similar function but only for pistol skills. Gif shows me interrupting 2 targets at the same time with MoD to reduce pistol 5 CD by 12 seconds (25 second CD -50% CD from 2 x 25% CD reduction of DD). Assuming DD stays as is, DD and CI will likely stack. So interrupting 1 target with DD+CI = 11 second CDR on pistol skills.

    So now try to combine sword+pistol mirage with DD and CI. Don't bother using sword 3 at all, it'll get in the way of CI. Just sword 2, pistol 4 and 5. There is some insane spam potential of those 3 skills if you keep landing your interrupts. The versatility of CI is kind of akin to quick draw on ranger: pick 1 skill that you need and use it more than balance intended it to be used.

    Shield 5 and torch 5 are going to be the aoe interrupts that are able to recharge themselves since the interrupts happen after the skill goes on CD. Torch 5 won't work well in zerg fights but shield 5 will be a decent source of aoe blind, confusion, slow. Just a quick test on golems in PvP and shield 5 can hit 20+ times in 1 cast. That is a lot of potential interrupts. If you do nothing but spam shield 5, there is a pretty good chance it will instantly recharge itself. MoD and gravity well are just icing on the cake to help keep your shield 5 spam going. You can also swap to Dom, Chaos, Chrono instead of Duel, chaos, chrono for power interrupts instead of condi. ToT, Lost time and power block can do 60 pockets of damage. That's a lot of retal procs! However, sigil of draining (~1k life steal) has no ICD. Sigil of absorption also steals 3 boons with no ICD. It cant steal stab but constantly keeping enemies low on boons from stealing them will make it easier for your allies corrupts/boon removal to get rid of stab. What else does shield 5 spam do? Give your entire zerg quickness and alacrity. Who needs illusions now?

    If they give CI an ICD, it'll be not nearly as good in WvW but will still have major potential for sword mirage. Then again, if you look at all the mesmer interrupt traits, only 1/7 has an ICD in PvP/WvW. We'll see.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.
    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    It probably worth a try but I'm not that optimistic about it because the key of old CI was immobilise who allow to load high burst combo. In the best case, it will be nerfed next patch because too much rupt for bob the casual ...

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.
    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    It probably worth a try but I'm not that optimistic about it because the key of old CI was immobilise who allow to load high burst combo. In the best case, it will be nerfed next patch because too much rupt for bob the casual ...

    With Sword Ambush and IH, you can have 3 clones each dazing a target for a small fraction of a second. This is unlikely to matter in the long run, except for interrupt procs, and chewing through stability charges. Stability isn't really something you have to worry about when you have three clones all jumping into a person dazing them. That's three (or four if you go) stacks of stability and/or aegis gone, and then you can do it again. And then you can diversion. And then you can Power Lock. You're disabling them, and they can't do kitten about it with stability. They have to dodge or find some way to avoid the hits. It's a pretty fun build, and fairly competitive. I hope it doesn't get nerfed, because it's the only fun way I've found to make interrupt builds viable with all the stability around.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.
    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    It probably worth a try but I'm not that optimistic about it because the key of old CI was immobilise who allow to load high burst combo. In the best case, it will be nerfed next patch because too much rupt for bob the casual ...

    With Sword Ambush and IH, you can have 3 clones each dazing a target for a small fraction of a second. This is unlikely to matter in the long run, except for interrupt procs, and chewing through stability charges. Stability isn't really something you have to worry about when you have three clones all jumping into a person dazing them. That's three (or four if you go) stacks of stability and/or aegis gone, and then you can do it again. And then you can diversion. And then you can Power Lock. You're disabling them, and they can't do kitten about it with stability. They have to dodge or find some way to avoid the hits. It's a pretty fun build, and fairly competitive. I hope it doesn't get nerfed, because it's the only fun way I've found to make interrupt builds viable with all the stability around.

    if you spam your dodges to interupt you gonna have a bad time.

  • Chaotic Interruptions usage in large scale WvW is always running into stability, where there are entirely too much stability and little way to rip it as is. For small scale the cooldown reduction simply is not quite large enough to make it even half as strong as the immobilize had been. In short, the change does nothing to improve reliability or functionality of Mesmer in WvW so it is unlikely to cause massive disruptions in the gameplay there, large or small scale.

    I still feel that all the proposed changes fail to actually affect WvW much, instead managing to merely attempt to balance some small things that were broken (or turned off completely) in the game overall. The focus right now needs to be shifting burst and reliability for some professions other than Mesmer to adjust the balance. The improvements in communications from ANet are very well received however and I hope they will continue to be as forthcoming in the future and responding to the feedback we are giving overall.

    I really hope they consider improving clone and phantasm reliability in large scale combat and in situations where they can be interrupted or killed nearly instantly.

  • @BadMed.3846 said:
    Thanks for the follow. I like your commitment. Even in bronze tier there is no reason for any class to be ridiculously broken and OP. Just gives it more potential in higher tiers. But I'm sure it's hard for the big mirage main population to understand.

    Skill floor ≠ skill ceiling.

    But ofc its hard to get that simple logic when you're so dead set on every disagreement is from "mirage main population".

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I noticed hybrid chrono is still rated highly for raids on discretize not sure how up to date it is.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/hybrid-chronomancer

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Axl.8924 said:
    I noticed hybrid chrono is still rated highly for raids on discretize not sure how up to date it is.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/hybrid-chronomancer

    PvE is not a particularly hostile environment for Mesmer of any kind, but shows us how even there, the damage concerns and numbers tuning is badly off. Mesmer lacks good dps outside of being reliant on a few traits in a single line of an elite specialization to attain comparable numbers to others. This is noticed in WvW in large scale where suddenly clones and shatters can no longer be appropriately used and thus the damage drops off to practically nothing, so Mesmer was even more reliant on utilities.

    This illustrates why the profession resource needs a rework and potentially changes to phantasms as well. Consistency and reliability need to be improved so numbers tuning can be fair across the board, in PvE and PvP game modes. Current design was always flawed, but the devs did not want to change it in the past.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I noticed hybrid chrono is still rated highly for raids on discretize not sure how up to date it is.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/hybrid-chronomancer

    PvE is not a particularly hostile environment for Mesmer of any kind, but shows us how even there, the damage concerns and numbers tuning is badly off. Mesmer lacks good dps outside of being reliant on a few traits in a single line of an elite specialization to attain comparable numbers to others. This is noticed in WvW in large scale where suddenly clones and shatters can no longer be appropriately used and thus the damage drops off to practically nothing, so Mesmer was even more reliant on utilities.

    This illustrates why the profession resource needs a rework and potentially changes to phantasms as well. Consistency and reliability need to be improved so numbers tuning can be fair across the board, in PvE and PvP game modes. Current design was always flawed, but the devs did not want to change it in the past.

    What happened to mirage? on discretize mirage isn't even listed now. The two major builds for Mesmer are power chronomancer and hybrid chronomancer. it literally fell out of meta.

    That's just crazy that the newest elite fell out of meta in pve.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • @Axl.8924 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I noticed hybrid chrono is still rated highly for raids on discretize not sure how up to date it is.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/hybrid-chronomancer

    PvE is not a particularly hostile environment for Mesmer of any kind, but shows us how even there, the damage concerns and numbers tuning is badly off. Mesmer lacks good dps outside of being reliant on a few traits in a single line of an elite specialization to attain comparable numbers to others. This is noticed in WvW in large scale where suddenly clones and shatters can no longer be appropriately used and thus the damage drops off to practically nothing, so Mesmer was even more reliant on utilities.

    This illustrates why the profession resource needs a rework and potentially changes to phantasms as well. Consistency and reliability need to be improved so numbers tuning can be fair across the board, in PvE and PvP game modes. Current design was always flawed, but the devs did not want to change it in the past.

    What happened to mirage? on discretize mirage isn't even listed now. The two major builds for Mesmer are power chronomancer and hybrid chronomancer. it literally fell out of meta.

    That's just crazy that the newest elite fell out of meta in pve.

    In short, Mesmer was nerfed in so many areas across the board that only Chrono manages to be PvE viable due to a few traits that were not nerfed because they only function well in PvE (where enemies cannot remove slow from themselves and extra damage multipliers get to kick in). Mirage in particular received numerous nerfs to various damaging weapon skills and traits... in PvE this meant being relegated to open world only or being carried by friends in raids and such.

    PvP requests for balance affect PvE pretty harshly very often, because numerically Mesmer as a whole “should” have the appropriate damage output, but can never live up to that because their resource sometimes gets destroyed by AoE effects or interrupted randomly, never mind AI pathing and target selection potential issues. Mesmer as a whole needs decoupling from the reliance on a destroyable resource and AI damage sources and it put in the control of the player so that timing and placement is better. Doing that while retaining the visuals and thematic elements is not nearly as difficult as it would seem, but has gone ignored since the beginning of this game. Somewhere, someone does not think Mesmer issues could possibly be resolved easily so they simply refuse to allow the options to even be considered.

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @atlashugged.7642 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.
    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    It probably worth a try but I'm not that optimistic about it because the key of old CI was immobilise who allow to load high burst combo. In the best case, it will be nerfed next patch because too much rupt for bob the casual ...

    With Sword Ambush and IH, you can have 3 clones each dazing a target for a small fraction of a second. This is unlikely to matter in the long run, except for interrupt procs, and chewing through stability charges. Stability isn't really something you have to worry about when you have three clones all jumping into a person dazing them. That's three (or four if you go) stacks of stability and/or aegis gone, and then you can do it again. And then you can diversion. And then you can Power Lock. You're disabling them, and they can't do kitten about it with stability. They have to dodge or find some way to avoid the hits. It's a pretty fun build, and fairly competitive. I hope it doesn't get nerfed, because it's the only fun way I've found to make interrupt builds viable with all the stability around.

    Yeah it's the theory it seems beautifull etc.
    Reality is that with sword ambush and IH, unlike you are farming bronze potatoes :

    • clone die in AOE.
    • Ennemy run so they miss.
    • Ennemy evade so they miss.
    • Ennemy don't cast so they don't rupt.

    Not to say that ambush aren't instant cast and have a slow animation.
    You just describe theory and I just say that reality will no be that beautifull.
    And even with theory : can you theorycraft a duel versus thief/holo/sb/condiweaver/rev with this build ? The time you cast an ambush they did 2 actions.
    So we will see but I don't share the hype about "it will be a soooo fun trait".

  • @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.

    No I'm not overestimating the ambush. I just talked about the ambush+blurred frenzy with a reductionist approach in the first section. I then later mention that you can use an off-hand like pistol. Bring a utility like MoD. You still have F3 too. The Sw/P mirage is obviously going to be a small scale PvP setup where retal isn't as big a problem. The low CD evade is potent though. Or don't spam blurred frenzy. Just use pistol 5, 4, MoD and F3. With DD+CI, you can spam those two pistol skills. To clarify, I don't mean mindlessly spam. Thoughtfully use your interrupts but almost consider pistol 4-5 also really low CD abilities instead of 20-25 second CDs.

    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    Is an entire zerg trying to dodge Tides? No. Can you even use Tides with sword ambush? No. Is shield 5 an illusion or melee range? No. The shield 5 stuff is obviously about WvW zerging.

    Mesmer illusions are already a non factor in WvW. The new CI lets you ignore your illusion skills and double down on the skills that don't require illusions (like shield 5). I have never been in a zerg where I have actually had permanent stability on my necro (of whatever variety). I'm also able to land corrupts and fear plenty of times. WoD is also a thing. The proposed changes also have guardian stability going from 5 to 3 stacks of aoe stab. The nerf to anti-toxin runes means cover boons are going to be harder to come by from scrapper boon conversion. You also don't need to interrupt 20+ ppl when you hit 20+ ppl. You only need to interrupt 6 to have an instant recast of shield 5. If you interrupt 5 ppl, you still have improved alacrity to bring ToT down to a 3 second CD. ToT is also applying quickness and alacrity to your zerg too. You also have MoD and gravity well and chaos storm on heal for more interrupts to recharge ToT.

    So I disagree: mesmer weapon skills can be good considering game play in WvW already has illusions being a non-factor. The main problem was CD and CI negates that problem.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Yeah it's the theory it seems beautifull etc.
    Reality is that with sword ambush and IH, unlike you are farming bronze potatoes :

    • Ennemy don't cast so they don't rupt.
      And even with theory : can you theorycraft a duel versus thief/holo/sb/condiweaver/rev with this build ? The time you cast an ambush they did 2 actions.

    Wut? Is the enemy not casting so you don't interrupt or are they doing two action while you ambush? Only 1 of these happens at a time. Either way it's good for this build. Either you free cast or your interrupt. Also how did you proc CI before it was disabled? Could you never land an interrupt? Then CI was already useless for you. You still have MoD and F3 to instant interrupt people too. Your heal with be an AoE interrupt with the new staff 5 on heal.

    If clones die to aoe and IH is useless, why does the meta build take IH and DE? Basically take the old meta builds with CI+MoD and keep playing it. Now you have to skillfully land interrupts instead of RNG staff 5 procs. CI won't hold ppl down anymore but your enemies will burn through their defenses slower than your skills with come on CD now. So by your second burst they are "softly" held down. At least it gives your enemies time to realize they are screwed and have a chance of running instead of feeling powerless with a CC+Immob combo from RNG.

    Or take Dune cloak Sw/P and try to go ham with an interrupt build that strips stability with Dune Cloak in PvP. Or go to WvW and just spam shield 5 and interrupts. I'm not saying this will be actually OP but for once I'm looking forward to a mesmer patch and I'm going to try to have fun with this trait and I think it'll be really strong in a good way.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    Can we at least get a overhaul of Mesmer core please Anet?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Leonidrex.5649Leonidrex.5649 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.

    No I'm not overestimating the ambush. I just talked about the ambush+blurred frenzy with a reductionist approach in the first section. I then later mention that you can use an off-hand like pistol. Bring a utility like MoD. You still have F3 too. The Sw/P mirage is obviously going to be a small scale PvP setup where retal isn't as big a problem. The low CD evade is potent though. Or don't spam blurred frenzy. Just use pistol 5, 4, MoD and F3. With DD+CI, you can spam those two pistol skills. To clarify, I don't mean mindlessly spam. Thoughtfully use your interrupts but almost consider pistol 4-5 also really low CD abilities instead of 20-25 second CDs.

    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    Is an entire zerg trying to dodge Tides? No. Can you even use Tides with sword ambush? No. Is shield 5 an illusion or melee range? No. The shield 5 stuff is obviously about WvW zerging.

    Mesmer illusions are already a non factor in WvW. The new CI lets you ignore your illusion skills and double down on the skills that don't require illusions (like shield 5). I have never been in a zerg where I have actually had permanent stability on my necro (of whatever variety). I'm also able to land corrupts and fear plenty of times. WoD is also a thing. The proposed changes also have guardian stability going from 5 to 3 stacks of aoe stab. The nerf to anti-toxin runes means cover boons are going to be harder to come by from scrapper boon conversion. You also don't need to interrupt 20+ ppl when you hit 20+ ppl. You only need to interrupt 6 to have an instant recast of shield 5. If you interrupt 5 ppl, you still have improved alacrity to bring ToT down to a 3 second CD. ToT is also applying quickness and alacrity to your zerg too. You also have MoD and gravity well and chaos storm on heal for more interrupts to recharge ToT.

    So I disagree: mesmer weapon skills can be good considering game play in WvW already has illusions being a non-factor. The main problem was CD and CI negates that problem.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Yeah it's the theory it seems beautifull etc.
    Reality is that with sword ambush and IH, unlike you are farming bronze potatoes :

    • Ennemy don't cast so they don't rupt.
      And even with theory : can you theorycraft a duel versus thief/holo/sb/condiweaver/rev with this build ? The time you cast an ambush they did 2 actions.


    Wut? Is the enemy not casting so you don't interrupt or are they doing two action while you ambush? Only 1 of these happens at a time. Either way it's good for this build. Either you free cast or your interrupt. Also how did you proc CI before it was disabled? Could you never land an interrupt? Then CI was already useless for you. You still have MoD and F3 to instant interrupt people too. Your heal with be an AoE interrupt with the new staff 5 on heal.

    If clones die to aoe and IH is useless, why does the meta build take IH and DE? Basically take the old meta builds with CI+MoD and keep playing it. Now you have to skillfully land interrupts instead of RNG staff 5 procs. CI won't hold ppl down anymore but your enemies will burn through their defenses slower than your skills with come on CD now. So by your second burst they are "softly" held down. At least it gives your enemies time to realize they are screwed and have a chance of running instead of feeling powerless with a CC+Immob combo from RNG.

    Or take Dune cloak Sw/P and try to go ham with an interrupt build that strips stability with Dune Cloak in PvP. Or go to WvW and just spam shield 5 and interrupts. I'm not saying this will be actually OP but for once I'm looking forward to a mesmer patch and I'm going to try to have fun with this trait and I think it'll be really strong in a good way.

    or dont troll and take Bountiful Disillusionment, you know. the thing that actually works, isnt rng. doesnt deppend on landing it several times back to back to back to back to back to back to back to make a difference. Getting 5s shave on rupt is laughable at best.

    Just take a breather and compare it to power block.
    1 It does damage
    2 It does apply weakness
    3 It puts interrupted skill on 15s cd ( instead of 5s, meaning they get 10s of cooldown extra )

    so pb>ci becouse damage,weakness and better cooldown effect. + it actually rewards stopping IMPORTANT ABILITIES instead of blindly spamming interuptions, you know. the entire reason CI was complained about?

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    [...]

    Hmm I don't know if 2 times more static retaliation with sword 2 is a good thing. I mean practise will probably highligh some differents use case than paper.
    You seems to over-estimate the sword1 ambush potential.

    No I'm not overestimating the ambush. I just talked about the ambush+blurred frenzy with a reductionist approach in the first section. I then later mention that you can use an off-hand like pistol. Bring a utility like MoD. You still have F3 too. The Sw/P mirage is obviously going to be a small scale PvP setup where retal isn't as big a problem. The low CD evade is potent though. Or don't spam blurred frenzy. Just use pistol 5, 4, MoD and F3. With DD+CI, you can spam those two pistol skills. To clarify, I don't mean mindlessly spam. Thoughtfully use your interrupts but almost consider pistol 4-5 also really low CD abilities instead of 20-25 second CDs.

    In which world opponent stay between 3 sword clones to be perfectly rupted ? Oppenent I face do high kitting with ground and this ambush is far to be reliable IMO.

    Same for shield 5 and torch 5 who are more than telegraphied.
    And I maintain that mesmer weapon skills aren't that good considering gameplay is around shatter and bests skills are in utility bar.
    In Zerg, reality is that most player are under stability and illusions instantly die so sword ambush and shield 5 (not even talking about the melee range of this skill.) are near to never proc CI.

    Is an entire zerg trying to dodge Tides? No. Can you even use Tides with sword ambush? No. Is shield 5 an illusion or melee range? No. The shield 5 stuff is obviously about WvW zerging.

    Shield 5 is a melee range skill considering the speed of the wall.

    Mesmer illusions are already a non factor in WvW. The new CI lets you ignore your illusion skills and double down on the skills that don't require illusions (like shield 5). I have never been in a zerg where I have actually had permanent stability on my necro (of whatever variety). I'm also able to land corrupts and fear plenty of times. WoD is also a thing. The proposed changes also have guardian stability going from 5 to 3 stacks of aoe stab. The nerf to anti-toxin runes means cover boons are going to be harder to come by from scrapper boon conversion. You also don't need to interrupt 20+ ppl when you hit 20+ ppl. You only need to interrupt 6 to have an instant recast of shield 5. If you interrupt 5 ppl, you still have improved alacrity to bring ToT down to a 3 second CD. ToT is also applying quickness and alacrity to your zerg too. You also have MoD and gravity well and chaos storm on heal for more interrupts to recharge ToT.
    So I disagree: mesmer weapon skills can be good considering game play in WvW already has illusions being a non-factor. The main problem was CD and CI negates that problem.

    Hmm I pain to see the use case :

    • your zerk are facing other zerg pewpewing from 1200 to 1500 range, you will not hit anyone with a slow 600 range rupt skill.
    • Your zerg impact : chance are high they will load stability/block/invul and will move. Chance are also high you need temporisation and couldn't did perfect paper theory rupt.
      Maybe it's because I'm not a main WvWer anymore but I really fail to see the real use case. It will be ultra-situational like always.

    @viquing.8254 said:
    Yeah it's the theory it seems beautifull etc.
    Reality is that with sword ambush and IH, unlike you are farming bronze potatoes :

    • Ennemy don't cast so they don't rupt.
      And even with theory : can you theorycraft a duel versus thief/holo/sb/condiweaver/rev with this build ? The time you cast an ambush they did 2 actions.


    Wut? Is the enemy not casting so you don't interrupt or are they doing two action while you ambush? Only 1 of these happens at a time. Either way it's good for this build. Either you free cast or your interrupt. Also how did you proc CI before it was disabled? Could you never land an interrupt? Then CI was already useless for you. You still have MoD and F3 to instant interrupt people too. Your heal with be an AoE interrupt with the new staff 5 on heal.

    The first sentence was about sword ambush in general.
    The second was about other metaclass who cleary can does 1 or 2 action between the start of the ambush and the rupt. (Basically SB will FC, Thief will evade skill, Holo will aoe or block, rev wil evade, weaver will evade.)

    Also how did you proc CI before it was disabled? Could you never land an interrupt? Then CI was already useless for you.

    We didn't need more rupt or CD reduction but a way to land/secure bursts that's what gave the old CI. And I certainly proc old CI not by clone ambush or by shield 5 but by MoD who didn't require to face target ...

    If clones die to aoe and IH is useless, why does the meta build take IH and DE?

    Because ranged staff clones live better than melee sword clone.

    I'm not convinced by this new CI but we will see.

  • @viquing.8254 said:
    Yeah it's the theory it seems beautifull etc.
    Reality is that with sword ambush and IH, unlike you are farming bronze potatoes :

    • clone die in AOE.

    No, not in my experience. Some might, but generally speaking, if you're giving your clones mirage cloak, they're going to make it to the target with their leap.

    • Ennemy run so they miss.

    Again, no, not really, because your clones are leaping at the enemy faster than they can run, unless they blow a cooldown on a blink. Thieves can be pretty annoying if you don't have mantra of distraction available.

    • Ennemy evade so they miss.

    That's more than fine, they evaded a 1CD spell.

    • Ennemy don't cast so they don't rupt.

    Also more than fine. An enemy that isn't casting anything isn't doing anything, and I have mantra of distraction up to interrupt them instantly when they do try to cast. Or diversion even. You should also note that this is in the context of infinite horizon allowing you to chip away stability. An infinite horizon clone sword is going to remove a stack of stability regardless of whether the enemy decides to cast during their stability or not. Finally, a lot of the actions you're suggesting enemies take are not productive actions to take during the narrow windows afforded them by stability. Don't get me wrong, there is absolutely counter play to the build, but it isn't as bleak as you say it is. (which really is a message this entire subforum needs to take to heart. Chill people).

    Not to say that ambush aren't instant cast and have a slow animation.

    Not really relevant for what you use Mirage Thrust for.

    You just describe theory and I just say that reality will no be that beautifull.
    And even with theory : can you theorycraft a duel versus thief/holo/sb/condiweaver/rev with this build ? The time you cast an ambush they did 2 actions.
    So we will see but I don't share the hype about "it will be a soooo fun trait".

    Of the classes you mentioned, the only ones that give me regular trouble are holosmiths. Thieves, it's 50/50 depending on the situation.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Delofasht.4231 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    I noticed hybrid chrono is still rated highly for raids on discretize not sure how up to date it is.

    https://discretize.eu/builds/mesmer/hybrid-chronomancer

    PvE is not a particularly hostile environment for Mesmer of any kind, but shows us how even there, the damage concerns and numbers tuning is badly off. Mesmer lacks good dps outside of being reliant on a few traits in a single line of an elite specialization to attain comparable numbers to others. This is noticed in WvW in large scale where suddenly clones and shatters can no longer be appropriately used and thus the damage drops off to practically nothing, so Mesmer was even more reliant on utilities.

    This illustrates why the profession resource needs a rework and potentially changes to phantasms as well. Consistency and reliability need to be improved so numbers tuning can be fair across the board, in PvE and PvP game modes. Current design was always flawed, but the devs did not want to change it in the past.

    What happened to mirage? on discretize mirage isn't even listed now. The two major builds for Mesmer are power chronomancer and hybrid chronomancer. it literally fell out of meta.

    That's just crazy that the newest elite fell out of meta in pve.

    First of all you cant even see what you are linking aka the date, made for fractals 8 months ago... /facepalm
    If you would play the game yourself before linking something like that you would know chrono is playble only in RAIDS and not anywhere else as FB/renegade is way better than poor chrono/druid comp.
    Any condi specs are not welcomed in CM+T4 groups as you want to burst and phase everything quick, mirage has its place only in certain raid bosses, how come u link DT and not looking at SC lul