Gw2 is a casual pve game — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Gw2 is a casual pve game

I feel that a lot of people need to move on. The focus of this game has been on casual pve for years, and will never move back to pvp. Proper class balance, a fix to power creep, new content, it will all never come. I think its been made very clear, the only new things to come will be cash shop items and living world. These promises about swiss tournaments, 2v2/3v3, wvw alliances etc. will do nothing to improve gameplay. Its sad to see gw2 go down this path but there is nothing we can do or say to change it.

Comments

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    I remember early days too.... This game was advertised as a casual, no grind game that would allow to you go strait to the end game content being WvW. (probably why we had such a good population.)
    Anet would advertise the game with 3 separate modes to enjoy aswell, focus of the game wasn't purely PvE. People mostly only played PvE back then to acquire stats for WvW oddly enough. I remember WvW guilds camping out on a bugged Orr Event with Spiders farming MATS to sell for Siege then we would also do Donation Walks and events for our home servers and the 'PvE" community would back the WvW community by donating to commanders and wishing the server the best of luck in the match up, the game was pretty much centered around WvW. Commanders would make out calls to the community when in trouble and the "PvE" players would temporarily come in to WvW for half hour to defend the home world keep from enemy servers. Amazing times actually, having a community of players that dabbled in everything to come together to defend their home world.

    Seems like end game content is repeatable hearts and endless grind now or something that requires a heavy time gate in PvE.

    • Sparkles and Rainbows.

    when you disappear from the forums sometimes for a while, are you being banned?

    is that why the whole sparkles and rainbows thing you got going on?

    (i'm about to be banned lol)

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    I remember early days too.... This game was advertised as a casual, no grind game that would allow to you go strait to the end game content being WvW. (probably why we had such a good population.)
    Anet would advertise the game with 3 separate modes to enjoy aswell, focus of the game wasn't purely PvE. People mostly only played PvE back then to acquire stats for WvW oddly enough. I remember WvW guilds camping out on a bugged Orr Event with Spiders farming MATS to sell for Siege then we would also do Donation Walks and events for our home servers and the 'PvE" community would back the WvW community by donating to commanders and wishing the server the best of luck in the match up, the game was pretty much centered around WvW. Commanders would make out calls to the community when in trouble and the "PvE" players would temporarily come in to WvW for half hour to defend the home world keep from enemy servers. Amazing times actually, having a community of players that dabbled in everything to come together to defend their home world.

    Seems like end game content is repeatable hearts and endless grind now or something that requires a heavy time gate in PvE.

    • Sparkles and Rainbows.

    when you disappear from the forums sometimes for a while, are you being banned?

    is that why the whole sparkles and rainbows thing you got going on?

    (i'm about to be banned lol)

    This is a friendly environment :D

    • Sparkles and Rainbows.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • FitzChevalerie.1035FitzChevalerie.1035 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    with megaservers, noone has server pride anymore. we use to get stat bonus in all game modes (cept pvp) based on how our wvw server performed.

    Now pve players dont care and wouldnt encourage their wvw server guild.

    Heck when the stat bonus got removed, you had pve players demanding to continue to get the bonus stats because they had become accustomed to them. Needed them to fight their practice dummies world boss

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    This is great that this is casual. I like it. ... But why me not in platinum or gold?? Why my 28k ap not help me ?

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    The degenerate

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    Mentioned is not a focus. How many years did it take for that to even come about?

  • LazySummer.2568LazySummer.2568 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    y can't I just farm my pips in peace in unranked in this casual game?? Lame anet half-assing everything & making the game that much worse as a result... :'(

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    Mentioned is not a focus. How many years did it take for that to even come about?

    Not a focus yet it was used to advertise and sell the game. Some people bought the game solely because of this, of course most of them left by now.

    The degenerate

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    1, Casual players play pvp just as much as Non-casual' players if there's such a thing, in fact it's probable there are more casual that non-casual as the game is focused on being open to casual play.
    2. Pvp has allways been a big part of casual end game, see gw1.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    @Lincolnbeard.1735 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    One of the aspects mentioned over and over was pvp e-sports. Which became true for a while, until everyone realized it hadn't potential and was a fail.

    Mentioned is not a focus. How many years did it take for that to even come about?

    Not a focus yet it was used to advertise and sell the game. Some people bought the game solely because of this, of course most of them left by now.

    If most have left, there's nothing really to talk about. They're not here and the people who the game is focusing on are. That's the group that Anet has clearly focused on the most for the longest time. I guess I wonder if there were ever really the numbers of PvPers or hard core players that some seem to believe.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    Pvp builds and balance could be better, allowing some classes to overperfom is not a good thing.

    And have only one major type of game never helped gw2 pvp as well.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Many players came in thinking that GW2 would be a better GW1.

    The manifesto doesn't indicate what you are saying, at all.

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/guild-wars-2-design-manifesto/

    There are plenty of other articles, i could go to wikipedia and link them, but it seems they wanted to sell it on all 3 points.

    Living story came out, like 8 months after the game released?

    Also about midway through season one, the game saw an exodus.

    A decent revival around the ESL period....hmmm...I wonder why?

    I have seen many comment that the game was probably meant to end considering how the last season finale went, also they had moved onto "other projects" (cancelled, supposedly).

    Now, here we are no expansion in sight, with only free saga and gem stores sales to keep the game going. Buy POF get HOT free...nothing for the players already here to spend there money on really.

    Notice in the manifesto they said 150 employees?

    That's less than we even have now after the layoffs, and content is this slow?

    Think they are back on other projects?

    Even if they just keep the same game mode, the really, really need to prioritize the frequent tournaments and wvw if onlyu living story is left.

    Younger players are not really going to be drawn in by what older folks are into, at least not in the numbers the game needs.

    Kids are interested in competitive games.

    Guild wars 2 has the combat system to support this and bring more people into the game.

    Considering where they are and what they did this year....

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I think the absolute focus on PVE is a mistake, or they are doing it because they are developing something else.

    Many have said 2 hours of content every 3-4 months is simply not enough.

    Expansions please everyone, because even if it messes up balance, new specs-skils-weapons add new content to every mode.

    Story is nice, but somehow some way they have to bring in more specs, skills, and changes that significantly impact all game modes.

    The story tells their STORY, but how does it really help the WHOLE game?

    It doesn't.

    It doesn't make any meaningful impact that spreads throughout the who game like new elites, new skills, new expansions.

    Gliding changed 2 modes, mounts have as well.

    Specs, professions, and reworks change all modes.

    Saying someone in PVP spends no money is ignorant.

    I buy expansions and I buy gems with real money to get cosmetic items.

    What other money does PVE give?

    ONly larger quantity, which is believable for sure.

    But, at what percent?

    PvPers that stick with the game and do PVE, might only be here because PVP or WvW. If those go to dead mode, they might leave.

    What might that do?

    A large chunk, perhaps more than the PVE group wants to admit, of the PVE group has only stuck around because of the WvW and PvP.

    You say, these guys and us who only normally do competitive leave, then something stinky will hit the fan.

    I know many people who are PVP mains, but they do enough PVE to want to show off very expesnive and prestigious infusions.

    They have decided to put GW2 on the shelf because their favorite game modes are in maintenance mode.

    I want PVE to get content.

    But, is it so risky just to grind out the new tourney system, and add gvg so it can be release before the year end?

    Is the story enough to attract more players?

    When GW2 ends, will it be the end? Will there be a sequel?

    The old MMO vets remain, but what new kids are coming in?

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • The problem is you can't easily have pvp builds and pve builds and group builds be interchangeable, and still have a good game. Let's be honest, most people play pve and the game props them up to be GODS, then they enter pvp and they are worse than newborn babes and they leave with their tale between their legs.

  • Daishi.6027Daishi.6027 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    I was sold on the prospect of it being a balanced PvP experience with an e-sports aspiration.
    What I got was terrible balance for a game type that A-net decided to all in on; that was bound to not draw new viewership with our combat system.

    I used to care and be more indignant about it, but I acquiesced to the status quo and just decided to play smash, stacraft, overwatch, and dark souls for my PvP needs.

    I will always hold hope A-net will correct their mistakes, but equally I hold a deep seeded spark of schadenfreude enjoying the continued folly of their pride.

    admittedly some of the mini season stuff intrigues me, but I'm doubtful the balance will reflect what's needed to make it successful.

  • If you look at the history of NCsoft mmos, it really looks like Gw2 is heading down that path.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Lineage is called the WoW of Korea. They opened up Lineage in the WEst and it failed and they closed it down. Hardly a comparison to make. If you want to compare the Western version of the game, which has less players to pick from over all, Lineage failed, Guild Wars 2 succeeded.

    WOW has nothing to do with any conversation about MMOs.

    ESO and Guild Wars 2 were roughly equal until ESO introduced a console version. Yes, adding a format will add player numbers. Not sure why that surprises anyone.

    I never used the word thriving anyway, you did. I did say the game is doing very well. It's all about circumstance. Compared with Western games that came out in the last ten years, it's in the top five most likely. If you don't think that's doing well, not sure what to tell you.

  • Crab Fear.1624Crab Fear.1624 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Lineage is called the WoW of Korea. They opened up Lineage in the WEst and it failed and they closed it down. Hardly a comparison to make. If you want to compare the Western version of the game, which has less players to pick from over all, Lineage failed, Guild Wars 2 succeeded.

    WOW has nothing to do with any conversation about MMOs.

    ESO and Guild Wars 2 were roughly equal until ESO introduced a console version. Yes, adding a format will add player numbers. Not sure why that surprises anyone.

    I never used the word thriving anyway, you did. I did say the game is doing very well. It's all about circumstance. Compared with Western games that came out in the last ten years, it's in the top five most likely. If you don't think that's doing well, not sure what to tell you.

    Vayne, my dude. You used the word thriving. "Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game."

    I think ESO plays to their strengths and pedigree (all of elder scrolls lore). Tamriel One update is when things picked up for ESO.

    Guild Wars 2 has a pedigree (competitive game modes galore) that they are trying to erase.

    This game could be number 1.

    Why settle for maybe top 5...out of ...5?

    I don't expect them to invent a new game mode.

    Swiss needs to be out this year, some kind of guild competition and love for WvW needs to happen.

    Guild Wars is trying to deny it's heritage.

    They can keep making the story, just let them make the improvements to pvp and more players (fresh and young) will come to this game.

    If it's just business...stop calling it art (that's not for you Vayne).

    Soon™ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Lineage is called the WoW of Korea. They opened up Lineage in the WEst and it failed and they closed it down. Hardly a comparison to make. If you want to compare the Western version of the game, which has less players to pick from over all, Lineage failed, Guild Wars 2 succeeded.

    WOW has nothing to do with any conversation about MMOs.

    ESO and Guild Wars 2 were roughly equal until ESO introduced a console version. Yes, adding a format will add player numbers. Not sure why that surprises anyone.

    I never used the word thriving anyway, you did. I did say the game is doing very well. It's all about circumstance. Compared with Western games that came out in the last ten years, it's in the top five most likely. If you don't think that's doing well, not sure what to tell you.

    Vayne, my dude. You used the word thriving. "Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game."

    I think ESO plays to their strengths and pedigree (all of elder scrolls lore). Tamriel One update is when things picked up for ESO.

    Guild Wars 2 has a pedigree (competitive game modes galore) that they are trying to erase.

    This game could be number 1.

    Why settle for maybe top 5...out of ...5?

    I don't expect them to invent a new game mode.

    Swiss needs to be out this year, some kind of guild competition and love for WvW needs to happen.

    Guild Wars is trying to deny it's heritage.

    They can keep making the story, just let them make the improvements to pvp and more players (fresh and young) will come to this game.

    If it's just business...stop calling it art (that's not for you Vayne).

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Lineage is called the WoW of Korea. They opened up Lineage in the WEst and it failed and they closed it down. Hardly a comparison to make. If you want to compare the Western version of the game, which has less players to pick from over all, Lineage failed, Guild Wars 2 succeeded.

    WOW has nothing to do with any conversation about MMOs.

    ESO and Guild Wars 2 were roughly equal until ESO introduced a console version. Yes, adding a format will add player numbers. Not sure why that surprises anyone.

    I never used the word thriving anyway, you did. I did say the game is doing very well. It's all about circumstance. Compared with Western games that came out in the last ten years, it's in the top five most likely. If you don't think that's doing well, not sure what to tell you.

    Vayne, my dude. You used the word thriving. "Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game."

    I think ESO plays to their strengths and pedigree (all of elder scrolls lore). Tamriel One update is when things picked up for ESO.

    Guild Wars 2 has a pedigree (competitive game modes galore) that they are trying to erase.

    This game could be number 1.

    Why settle for maybe top 5...out of ...5?

    I don't expect them to invent a new game mode.

    Swiss needs to be out this year, some kind of guild competition and love for WvW needs to happen.

    Guild Wars is trying to deny it's heritage.

    They can keep making the story, just let them make the improvements to pvp and more players (fresh and young) will come to this game.

    If it's just business...stop calling it art (that's not for you Vayne).

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Crab Fear.1624 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game. This was a PvP guild wars focus MMO. What the kitten?
    Same thing happen to WoW. The company bow down the pve casual's & removed anything remotely competitive or considered to hard.
    Bringing back the WoW classic at it's original pvp open world core even with the broken stuff is actually the best idea. Why, cuz it get's your blood boiling.
    Only the fluff casual's don't enjoy this type. Except the ones liking competitive play is the majority.

    Actually it was sold as a PvE focus game. Anet said directly, the spent a year talking about PvE before getting into PvP because they didn't want people to believe this game centered on PvP. It never did. Not once. Not ever. More to the point, even Guild Wars 1 stopped centering on PvP torward the end, when it was originally designed as a PvP game. If you don't think Anet learned there lesson back then, not sure what else I can tell you.

    This game has always been advertised with the slogan a living breathing world. That's what Anet talked about. That's what Anet had panels about at cons. That was what the game was advertised as. They did mention PvP and WvW from time to time, but the bulk of their talking time and talking points was PvE.

    What lesson?

    In sales - copies sold GW1 equals if not surpasses GW2...as a pvp games....odd.

    Seems like they missed the lesson.

    Ummm, do you really believe that? Let's check. It took Guild Wars 1 a lot longer to get 7 million sales and that wasn't sales for each item but all their items. When they said Guild Wars sold 6 million copies they didn't say Prophecies sold six million copies. This game had 4 million preorders. On top of that, a dev said, there were more people playing PvP in this game (after everyone said everyone left) that have ever played Guild Wars 1. Yes that was said by a dev.

    On top of that, if PvP was so strong in Guild Wars 1, why did the development over time drift away from it. In the past devs have said we designed PvP to be the original end game, but we didn't realize how many people just wanted to play content in the world. Factions, the 2nd game, was the LAST game they included PvP modes. Neither Nightfall or Eye of the North included anything for PvP. Moving forward from there they came out with Guild Wars Beyond which was also all PvE. They learned their lessons.

    The difference between us and Anet is that they have the metrics on how many players are playing what. We don't.

    It took 3 years to get to 6 million, development/bnalances were active up until 2011...thats not bad. Don;t make up stuff.

    Why the layoffs? Why are they making less yoy? Why haven't they started on an expansion which has always boosted sales?

    Blizzard had layoffs you don't say their game isn't doing well. Sometimes layoffs have nothing to do with what you think they do. Most of the people laid off WERE NOT WORKING ON GUILD WARS 2. That's what was said, and I have no reason to believe that's not true. Do you know how much money this game makes a quarter? Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game.

    Anet started trying to do side projects that didn't get off the ground. Are you aware that there aren't much fewer Anet employess now than at launch. They hired an addition hundred people and laid off like a hundred and forty, most of whom were not working on Guild Wars 2. They moved some devs that weren't working on Guild Wars 2 back to Guild Wars 2. Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    Do you realize both the Secret World and Star Wars Tor had much bigger layoffs much sooner after their game was launched.

    This is a game that's 7 years old, it has no console version and it's still one of the premiere MMOs of the last decade. I think you really need to look at the market more, tbh.

    ESO didn't start pulling ahead until the came out with a console version. This game, considering who it's competing against is doing very well.

    http://global.ncsoft.com/global/ir/quarterly.aspx

    So I look at this report.

    Is lineage 2 ( a 16 year old game), making 3 x what GW2 is?

    From what I can see about ESO they are making about the same as Lineage 2.

    WoW makes about 10x that.

    What does thriving mean?

    I notice that 2 quarters after each expansion, revenue for Anet 2.5x (about triples).

    Seems it beefed up during ESL too.

    Lineage is called the WoW of Korea. They opened up Lineage in the WEst and it failed and they closed it down. Hardly a comparison to make. If you want to compare the Western version of the game, which has less players to pick from over all, Lineage failed, Guild Wars 2 succeeded.

    WOW has nothing to do with any conversation about MMOs.

    ESO and Guild Wars 2 were roughly equal until ESO introduced a console version. Yes, adding a format will add player numbers. Not sure why that surprises anyone.

    I never used the word thriving anyway, you did. I did say the game is doing very well. It's all about circumstance. Compared with Western games that came out in the last ten years, it's in the top five most likely. If you don't think that's doing well, not sure what to tell you.

    Vayne, my dude. You used the word thriving. "Over 12 million dollars. This is a thriving game."

    I think ESO plays to their strengths and pedigree (all of elder scrolls lore). Tamriel One update is when things picked up for ESO.

    Guild Wars 2 has a pedigree (competitive game modes galore) that they are trying to erase.

    This game could be number 1.

    Why settle for maybe top 5...out of ...5?

    I don't expect them to invent a new game mode.

    Swiss needs to be out this year, some kind of guild competition and love for WvW needs to happen.

    Guild Wars is trying to deny it's heritage.

    They can keep making the story, just let them make the improvements to pvp and more players (fresh and young) will come to this game.

    If it's just business...stop calling it art (that's not for you Vayne).

    The past is the past. Guild Wars 1 or 2 could not stand up to the influx of free mobas period. The day of the MMO PvP scene is not only over but has been for ages. Do you know what happens in MMOs what have both PvE and PvP servers? They PvP servers tend to fade until there are only 1 or 2 left and everything else is a PvE server. I get it. You like PvP. You think PvP is so much better than PvE and for you it is. But many of not most PvPers are playing first person shooters, loot shooters and mobas. That's just the way it is. And if this game had centered on PvP, it would be closed by now. There are too many PvP options that aren't MMOs, and that's where people are going to find themselves.

    Edit: I did use thriving and I'm surprised at myself. I'm usually more careful about language use. Let's put it another way, this game is a successful game and remains successful to this day. Thriving has slightly different connotations. And PvP would never have kept it thriving. It would be dead by now if that were the game's focus.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the real mistake is they thinking that modes are mutually exclusive, when they in really extends the lifetime of the franchise, i remenber in Neverwinter, when i was finally get bored of Pve(because i become too rich), i going to Pvp and stay there for more 6 months til my account was hacked... Same on GW2, the WvW make-me stay there for 1 year or more, after i have done with HoT content. I only had come back to Pve, when LS3 lauched and PoF.

    "It's a testament to the folly of the humans and their gods. They say Arah was sacred, but all I see is one big dragon nest."(Rytlock Brimstone)

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    The past is the past. Guild Wars 1 or 2 could not stand up to the influx of free mobas period. The day of the MMO PvP scene is not only over but has been for ages.

    But you do realize that Blade and Soul for example has an active pvp esport scene since ages, right? And Black Desert OMEGALULnline is like 100% PvP oriented (unfortunately it is flawed in more than a million ways.. but it has a pretty big playerbase nonetheless). Aion and TERA are also very PvP focused and still strife.
    PvP is NOT dead, no matter how much some people dislike it but a huge portion of players will always be competitive, mmorpgs are no exception to this.

    Also.. I mean.. esport isn't about speedrunning raids or erp right? Never saw a 1 million $ price pool tournament about who has the best outfit.

    Edit: (...) And PvP would never have kept it thriving. It would be dead by now if that were the game's focus.

    Quite the opposite probably would have happened imo. When GW2 came out a lot of ppl were lured in and pretty much immediately left since it was different and lacking some content and a lot of people didn't like it. A lot has changed and improved since then and I bet quite a few people would like the current state if they gave it another shot. But it's stunning how many people (who abandoned it waaaaay pre-hot) think GW2 is actually dead/offline or irrelevant, even tho it's still on probably almost every top5 MMO list.
    If Anet didn't give kitten about the class balance esport would've probably succeeded and maybe gained a lot of traction again. My wild guess would be that the entire esport stuff was initiated by NCSoft (they are also the devs and publisher behind Blade and Soul, which has still an ongoing pvp esport scene like mentioned before) but Anet just kitten it up. Even tho this might not be true I still think it's 100% Anet's fault that esport didn't succeed. I mean.. I didn't even know GW2 had an ESL going until it was already almost shut down. I remember seeing some announcements for a couple big tournaments but I honestly didn't know it was a proper ESL but thought it was just some one-time tournament Anet organized out of fun tbh.
    Also they should highlight their content creators more, especially those in pvp oriented game modes. Every time I have a look at their stream schedule over on twitch they're just featuring some art stuff or GuildNews.
    Anet is like "actively reluctant" when it comes to everything else than PvE, they're destroying their competitive game modes themselves, not because the game wouldn't support it or wouldn't appeal to a kitten of players.
    Since the HoT hype backfired so massively, Anet somehow went into complete silence mode. Towards the community and basically every media that could let gw2 gain more traction again. The most influx in players I have noticed the last couple years were not when a new addon came out tbh but when LazyPeon decided to publish a youtube video about why he likes gw2 after trying it a second time and was streaming with over 1k viewers on twitch (that's actually A LOT for gw2) and when Bless massively failed and those people checked out twitch streams about whether or not they should look into it. Maybe my impression is skewed since I was very active on gw2 twitch in those times and helped out a lot of people deciding and stuff but still.

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    the real mistake is they thinking that modes are mutually exclusive, when they in really extends the lifetime of the franchise, i remenber in Neverwinter, when i was finally get bored of Pve(because i become too rich), i going to Pvp and stay there for more 6 months til my account was hacked... Same on GW2, the WvW make-me stay there for 1 year or more, after i have done with HoT content. I only had come back to Pve, when LS3 lauched and PoF.

    Exactly! But I think it's more in the mindset of players than Anet actually. I mean.. Just look at all those scrubs spamming "Gw2 Is A pVe GaMe DeAl WiTh It pVp PlEbS" in the forums and stuff. Never saw any similar statement from a dev.
    Funnily enough a huge portion of newer players would actually say GW2 is more a PvP MMO than PvE.. I mean just look at some threads on reddit or first impression vids on youtube or something.
    There's a (german) youtuber called Entenburg who made a 10 minutes vid about GW2 pretty recently in which he also states that it feels more like a PvP oriented game than PvE. Just one example.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    First off: I don’t believe than any mmo right now is popular only because of pvp: Even if your goal is to pvp, you start in pve where you acquire levels and gear, thus you have to play though the pve content. If that is not fun, many players will move on (there are enough other options). People who are truly looking for competition play actual esport titles like dota/LoL or CS/Fortnite, not gw2, eso, wow or whatnot (if you play those, you like rp, social interaction and the like, surely you can be competitive but you aren’t really looking for the highest level of competition as you put yourself in a less competitive environment).

    i’d guess that ESO is more successful than gw2 because of pve as zenimax releases new content 4 times a year. The added content often (dungeons and raids) also has more replay value than gw2 content because of gear farm and simple achievements that still take the vast majority of players some time (no death, hard mode, speedrun, and all of those in a single run). They also have different difficulty settings to please a wider variety of players. In that manner, they try to deliver to both casuals and more hard core gamers. That said, there is a lot of artificial difficulty because of the aforementioned achievements and the game’s poor performance and I’d argue that gw2 raids are a lot more complex than eso trials (which hardly have any mechanics except talking out of aoe/blocking - which an add on tells you when to do - and killing adds), just like high level fractals are much more difficult than eso hard mode dungeons.
    Pvp in eso has more game modes but in terms of gameplay it has always felt to me that they just took all the things I dislike in gw2 pvp and put them into 1 mode. Almost all skills are instant, gear matters A LOT animations can be canceled/almost supressed (and the skills will have even executed already as they are instant). Idk about balance, but the complaints are many, so I don’t think it’s different than in gw

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

  • @Erzian.5218 said:
    First off: I don’t believe than any mmo right now is popular only because of pvp: Even if your goal is to pvp, you start in pve where you acquire levels and gear, thus you have to play though the pve content.

    mhh nah that's not particularly correct. A friend of mine started GW2 purely for PvP. He just did the tutorial, finished the rest for level 3 (or whatever level you need to get into pvp idk anymore) and went straight to HotM. He isn't interested in PvE in the slightest. Although that being said I also have to mention he already quit because the balance sucks kitten and there's just not enough sPvP content to keep him interested. Fair enough I'd say..

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    That being said, eso offers an optional subscription service and dlcs come with a price tag too. The current dlc costs 13€ and when new addons are released they are fully priced as well. If Anet would monetize GW2 in a similar way they'd probably also be able to dish out content like that. Not that I want an optional subscription model (I hate subscriptions in general.. Coming from gw2 eso just feels like they made everything in a way that feels uncomfortable just to give the players an incentive to pay for the sub)
    I wish living world would be buy to play honestly. Imo it's a luxury of Anet everyone has to pay for and only very few are actually enjoying. Like.. I honestly don't know a single person who really wants to play the living story. Apart from some exceptions which could have just been some events, I didn't like the living world since season 1. Imo it's just a huge waste of resources. Hope they recycle and expand existing stuff in season 5 so they can be on schedule for once and at least deliver an update that offers more than 2 or 3 hours of content without being time-gated.

  • @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    This ^

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    Eso has great content, better than gw2 potentially... However the server performance along with how animation cancelling works absolutely DESTROYS the game. Great questing, good looks, good writing, good skills but an end game that is ruined by the technical issues.

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    Eso has great content, better than gw2 potentially... However the server performance along with how animation cancelling works absolutely DESTROYS the game. Great questing, good looks, good writing, good skills but an end game that is ruined by the technical issues.

    Yeah i just downloaded the game the day of the announcement so i'm not at endgame yet, I guess i'll see soonish.

  • Erzian.5218Erzian.5218 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    I should have been more specific, I was mostly referring to trials/dungeons vs raids/fractals, Story and quest wise ESO is miles ahead of gw2 imo. As you said gw2 combat is simply better. ESO feels really clunky compared to that with it's 1sec global cd and almost all skills are pretty much the same as they have the same cast time and either do damage or heal (sometimes with a buff attached) but there is no need for utility skills outside of that. It also has about 0 class identity and in the endgame all DDs play pretty much the same (especially stamina) and the only difference are the numbers you will be getting. Gw2 feels way more dynamic and has more class variety in pve end game (as optimal team comps vary depending on the boss). ESO usually has 1 (sometimes 2) different DDs. Right now stam necro is BIS at everything and you take 1nb to provide minor savagery Before that, it was NB only for dps.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    I agree that out of all the games I've played, ESO is probably the best. Howver, I still don't like going to a quest giver and having to go back to them. It's just a list of stuff to do to me. When I'm playing Guild Wars I'm generally just reacting to events in the world, which I greatly prefer.

  • vesica tempestas.1563vesica tempestas.1563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @vesica tempestas.1563 said:

    @The one to Rule.2593 said:

    @Erzian.5218 said:

    To, dr: Gw2 has great gameplay and well-designed content but not enough of it (especially not if you don’t enjoy gathering items in open world pve), eso has worse gameplay and worse content but the content can still be fun and, contrary to gw2, new content comes regularly.

    I don't think Eso's content is worse. Quite the contrary. The gameplay is only slightly worse than gw2 which is saying something as it has a lot to live up to with how good gw2's combat system is.

    Overall though, questing/leveling/balance/ gear is all handled better in eso imo. It has some of the best quests in any mmo out there.

    Eso has great content, better than gw2 potentially... However the server performance along with how animation cancelling works absolutely DESTROYS the game. Great questing, good looks, good writing, good skills but an end game that is ruined by the technical issues.

    Yeah i just downloaded the game the day of the announcement so i'm not at endgame yet, I guess i'll see soonish.

    Enjoy the questing and do every zone all factions (I got 250 hours gameplay alone from this and crafting) , it is best in market = don't rush to end game :)

    "Any path that narrows future possibilities may become a lethal trap. Humans do not thread their way through a maze; they scan a vast horizon filled with unique opportunities." - The Spacing Guild Handbook.

    Beware the meta!

  • Swagg.9236Swagg.9236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vieux P.1238 said:
    When launched, it was not sold to me as a only pve focus game.

    And the PvP was just as shallow then as it is now.

  • @Vayne.8563 said:
    Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    We may have moved on from this discussion, but I wanted to point out that the layoff did affect the game and the announcement post layoff follows the exact same PR damage control protocol you see in every company to reassure consumer confidence. Ironically layoff now becomes the deflecting shield by ex-employee when players were questioning lack of roadmap in the recent GW2 Saga shenanigans.

    [RED] Crimson Sunspears...your small family guild since 2015.

    1. The PvE here is stale, watered down and CANT compete with ESO which is why Eso is kicking A-net's butt. WoW classic proves this, in Guild wars 2 you don't really work toward anything substantial or well worth the work required. (Mounts? Nah. Skins? Gems only. Skills? Wrong again.) You really just work toward legendary and once you get to a fully kit of legendary you're done. You never really need to grind again unless you happen to like a skin, which is a hit or miss with people.
    2. Raids didn't save anything, the focus on them hurts the game. People are always like "I want a new raid wing!!!" But really? Why. I mean I can understand its fun but our raids will NEVER beat WoW's or Eso's trials. So is it really worth wasting the effort, money and time designing it as a focus when clearly it is not working and will not work. Players who are interested WILL go get into it, the fact so many haven't and won't speaks volumes. Even raiders say the raids aren't hard and they don't require much other than knowing "I probably shouldn't stand in the fire."
    3. WvW was a flagship mode alongside PvP and while both have gotten new toys and have received attention its far from enough. WvW needs new maps, they need more toys and they need more purpose and a restructuring. PvP is a mess because no one will leave classes alone and everyone QQ's over how a class functions, so they get changed and nerfed into a watered down baby version of what they could of been. Do you think MoBa's and any other pvp game is succesful based on balance? Hell no. Its successful because Pro's and people with skill will find ways around even the most ludicrous of kits with characters and classes that under-preform because they think they are fun or enjoy that class/arch-type.
    4. We have no presence on twitch really, which I know most don't care but its a pretty big deal. It shows people are not interested in watching the game which means it wont spread via word of mouth; ESO and WoW and even Final fantasy on the other hand? All are pretty popular on a regular basis and people enjoy watching others go through the journey; They are also often supported by the game and dev's to help the game get more popular. This is not the case for GW2
    5. We've lost most our content creators, to said other games. That speaks volumes.
    6. With no expansion probably ever coming, we will more than likely continue to see a decline. (Living world can't , won't and didn't save them from having to do expansions the first time.)
    7. More constant content = more of a presence in the eyes of the community and gaming as a whole.
    8. New things such as , races, classes, and so on bring attention. Look at mounts people lost their collective kitten when they were announced; Because it was new and they were something we never thought we would get. Though id hardly call them "Genre defining" That's reaching a bit but you know, whatever call it what you want it still was successful.

    All in all, the game lacks a presence because it doesn't know what it wants to be. And gamers are predominantly like sheep and go from the big thing thats current to the next big thing that sweeps up and takes the reigns. Guild wars 2 has never once been that big of a deal; People have always considered it "Casual Wars 2" And no amount of grinding will change that. Honestly the game needs to embrace what it is and focus on the modes it has, Raids shouldn't be discontinued but I feel WvW and PvP right now are far more important and far more in need of content and fixes.

    But this will not happen, mainly because the vocal minority who complain that they need more raids/PvE is all that matters are the ones who get listened too. When the game is hanging by a thread because the WvW community moves to Camelot Unchained, and the PvPers move to ashes of creation then it will be to late. ALL the mmo-rpgs coming out are PvP based first with PvE playing second fiddle. This might make ton of people mad but honestly, the days of raids and PvE are coming to an end because people are tired of hitting damage sponge enemies with stupid mechanics. When you fight a player it has a lot more going into the fight, you don't know how they will approach you and there is an air of suspense there. Its unfortunate that the dev's have given up on this game-play wise and support wise, but I digress Ill stick around for the Saga but I can't see them doubling down on raids by adding strikes as a good thing. (Especially if strikes replace raids like fractals did to dungeons...)

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @NICENIKESHOE.7128 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Anet did have layoffs. They weren't focused on Guild Wars 2 however.

    We may have moved on from this discussion, but I wanted to point out that the layoff did affect the game and the announcement post layoff follows the exact same PR damage control protocol you see in every company to reassure consumer confidence. Ironically layoff now becomes the deflecting shield by ex-employee when players were questioning lack of roadmap in the recent GW2 Saga shenanigans.

    Well sure. They obviously have to post an announcement like this. Not really sure of your point. I once had a layoff from a company that I "lived through" and those announcements went out. They layoffs had nothing to do with the health of the company over all. They were restructuring to make the company more efficient. There was too much bloating over all. Payrolls had gotten too high in a number of places and that upward drift eats away at profits. Rents had gone up. So reorganized. It was, in that case, more like pruned branches so they could grow. Was it traumatic? Yes. Did we have to do some PR to our customers and reassure them. Yes.

    The game is always going to be affected by any kind of layoff or reorganization, that's true. But that doesn't mean there are significantly less people working on Guild Wars 2 now than before the layoffs. Particularly because people were moved back from other projects to Guild Wars 2. Essentially, because Guild Wars 2 is Anet's current published title, people think Anet = Guild Wars 2. That's not necessarily the case. There were other projects.

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