What type of elite spec do you want next?(Necromancer) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What type of elite spec do you want next?(Necromancer)

Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭

I'm actually curious to hear what the players want to see the most for the future of the necromancer. I have my suspicious as to what we want to see but I want to get a more solid idea of what we actually want. This is just to satisfy my personal curiosity. I'll be keeping this fairly basic for now so nothing specific like a pistol wielding plague doctor or fungus minion master.
Discuss your choices and how you'd like to see them implemented. I'd like to have a conversation too.

Here are the options and I'll explain there concept who might not understand there general roll. I do feel these are common enough that people get a general idea of what these typically are in the community.

  • Minion Master: A zerg spec that spawns minions and has a lot of control over the new minions. It both would enhance existing minion specs as well as expand into new territory giving the player more options for bombing and overwhelming.
  • Vampire: A spec that functions with life stealing, sacrificing and quick movement to be a high damage spec that also provides quite a bit of offensive support to allies.
  • Shaman: Using spirits to aid allies and provide healing, converting shroud into a means to aid allies rather than harm foes.
  • Plague Doctor: A condition heavy spec that would warp conditions to its personal use to hinder foes and potentially providing some of the most unique means of cleansing conditions.
  • Lich: A more tanky spec that pushes the idea of cheating death more than any other spec. Becoming hard to kill and punishing foes for trying.

What type of elite spec do you want next?(Necromancer) 52 votes

Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)
17%
LucianDK.8615Lily.1935Axl.8924kroof.5468DeathsProphet.7460Foxy.5319Bob.1703Josiah.2967Demon Queen.5184 9 votes
Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)
40%
Elric.4713Asum.4960Drarnor Kunoram.5180Wangatang.1938Xykris.6758Kiroshima.8497Ghostt.1293Irreverent.3594InsaneQR.7412Yannir.4132arafel.9801Nimon.7840AlexVv.3965EdDreath.2508Elwaer.7508Ara the Elegant.6825Legostyle.2718Pekoz.3862Tayga.3192alain.1659 21 votes
Shaman(Healer/support)
11%
Kaladel.1670Keychange.1386Alyster.9470Salubrious Hail.3798Fokes.1875Engal.6359 6 votes
Plague Doctor(Affliction)
5%
Xxnecroxx.4039Antycypator.9874Brando.1374 3 votes
Lich(tank)
25%
EremiteAngel.9765mrjediconsular.4396Emapudapus.1307Zero.3871Thornwolf.9721Zitronenalien.4532Brokensunday.4098Serenity.6304Acyk.9671Ghetx.1752Greyjoy.5167veneration.2165kappa.9712 13 votes
<1

Comments

  • Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    sword/sword deception skills Vampire plsss !!!

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    Mix between vampire and shaman honestly. More movement. More lifesteal and nice support.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    I want a class that isn't kitten to death and free kill.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    A power build based around lifesteal-sharing for optional spec-in support beefiness.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    A power build based around lifesteal-sharing for optional spec-in support beefiness.

    So vampire spec.

  • Curennos.9307Curennos.9307 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    A power build based around lifesteal-sharing for optional spec-in support beefiness.

    So vampire spec.

    More blood mage-y.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Curennos.9307 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Curennos.9307 said:
    A power build based around lifesteal-sharing for optional spec-in support beefiness.

    So vampire spec.

    More blood mage-y.

    The Vampire spec covers that. Personally when I think of vampire I think of the violent vampires that move extremely quickly with a high thirst. Almost beastial in nature using aristocracy as a cover for their savagery.

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    Definitely high dmg duelling spec.
    But high dmg and leeching effects don't go well together.
    So that's not gonna happening

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Nimon.7840 said:
    Definitely high dmg duelling spec.
    But high dmg and leeching effects don't go well together.
    So that's not gonna happening

    It can if life sacrifice is involved. You sacrifice life to improve your damage and use aggression to regain what you've lost.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    I want Toucher to be a thing.
    Hammer and physical skills that steal life.

    Should be a physical spec though, not like the Vampire bleeder in the poll.

  • Ghostt.1293Ghostt.1293 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019
    Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    i hope we get a sword main or off hand with lots of life steal

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    I want Toucher to be a thing.
    Hammer and physical skills that steal life.

    Should be a physical spec though, not like the Vampire bleeder in the poll.

    Toucher was very much a blood magic spec in GW1. Not sure where hammer fits. That's kinda specific tbh. the character Necromancer Munne and Souless Horror are the only two necromancers to have ever used a hammer and both are pretty heavy into death magic if I remember correctly. Munne has a little bit of blood magic but hammer isn't really all that common. It could technically fit on Anything on the list aside from Shaman.

    As I see it, all specs the necromancer has or will have will deal in a specific condition or two. Reaper uses chill, Scourge uses Burning and Tormnet. A vampiric spec would use bleeding, either self bleeding, there target bleeding or both to enhance their DPS or sustain themselves. I suppose I shouldn't have specified that, but I feel a vampiric spec would be a hybrid between physical and condition damage. You'd have options in the 3 trait lines that would be physical damage or bleed damage. Maybe some people look at it as a purely physical set? But I honestly doubt that since conditions are so integral to the necromancer's identity.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 2, 2019

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Toucher was very much a blood magic spec in GW1. Not sure where hammer fits. That's kinda specific tbh.

    All the touchers I played with were Ranger/Necromancers. Hammer was chosen due to being the only two-handed melee weapon back when touchers were "born".

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Toucher was very much a blood magic spec in GW1. Not sure where hammer fits. That's kinda specific tbh.

    All the touchers I played with were Ranger/Necromancers. Hammer was chosen due to being the only two-handed melee weapon back when touchers were "born".

    That was a ranger build though.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    Since the thematic of Life stealing is more in line with Necromancer than Ranger, such an e-spec would fit more into Necromancer though.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    There is no option for none of these. This doesn't feel like what do you want /like to see but more which one of my ideas do you like the most.

    The only thing I would say is that whatever the spec it it should not be minion based. Not only do we already have that but it would be a nonstarter in competitive modes since both Anet and the players hate the game playing itself or losing to AI. Reference turret engi, when MM necro was stronger, peoples general hate for mesmer, and literally any time a best mastery ranger build has been strong.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:
    There is no option for none of these. This doesn't feel like what do you want /like to see but more which one of my ideas do you like the most.

    The only thing I would say is that whatever the spec it it should not be minion based. Not only do we already have that but it would be a nonstarter in competitive modes since both Anet and the players hate the game playing itself or losing to AI. Reference turret engi, when MM necro was stronger, peoples general hate for mesmer, and literally any time a best mastery ranger build has been strong.

    All of these general terms get thrown around on the forums constantly and repeatedly. These are not what I want specifically.

    In fact, Plague doctor and Lich are not something I'd suggest. Plague doctor gets thrown around all the time by the community and they usually link it with pistol. This is not something I'm interested at all. And a tanking spec is kinda offensive to me as a veteran of gw1. But I included it because it is what a few in the community has request, repeatedly in the past what? 5 years? I'm looking and general support for the general concepts of potential elite specs. Nothing specific.

    If you want me to give you something specific and something I personally want, Ritualist and the suggested Deathcap elite spec I suggested as well as a future pulse tracker elite spec I was planning but couldn't complete due to real life complications.

    I'm pulling from 7 years of general vibes from the community and 5 years of specific requests by the players and distilling it into their most basic elements.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Since the thematic of Life stealing is more in line with Necromancer than Ranger, such an e-spec would fit more into Necromancer though.

    True. But why hammer? I never understood this. I honestly feel like it's a meme like Waluigi.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    Since the thematic of Life stealing is more in line with Necromancer than Ranger, such an e-spec would fit more into Necromancer though.

    True. But why hammer? I never understood this. I honestly feel like it's a meme like Waluigi.

    I like hammers and it could offer decent CC to Necros.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Shaman(Healer/support)

    I voted Healer/support 'cause that's what I like to play, in general, but my true answer is "none". I don't want new Elite Spec'. Once everything we already have is balanced and up to date, why not. But introducing new spec will just make things more messy.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Kaladel.1670 said:
    Once everything we already have is balanced and up to date, why not. But introducing new spec will just make things more messy.

    I doubt there will ever be balance, unless their policy takes a drastic turn-around.
    I'd rather have new, possibly fun ways to play the classes than wait for the balance that'll never come.
    I don't think it can get more messy than the current kill-in-five-seconds-or-bunker-up meta.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A mix between the minion master and the lich.

    F1: Immortal's banner: Replace your weapon skill set by the Immortal's banner skill set. (Life bar isn't protected by life force.)

    • Life explosion: create an explosion at the targeted area. Low damage. Radius 180. Range 900. Cast time 1 second.
    • Specter's retreat: Deal low damage around you and teleport away from your target. Summon a shambling horror for each foe hit. Leap finisher. Range 900. CD 10s. LF cost 1935.
    • Ripple of horror: Launch a wave that terrorize foes it hit, summoning a jagged horror for each foe hit. Cone attack. Range 600. CD 15s. LF cost 2487.
    • Summon madness: Same as lich skill. LF cost 3685.
    • Bone wall: summon a wall of bone which knock down foes that try to cross it. Number of target 10. Duration 5 second. CD 30s. LF cost: 3685.
      • Bone explosion: overload your bone wall with life force to make it explode, dealing heavy damage. Blast finisher. LF cost 1935.

    Utility skills: corrupted spirit (work the same as ranger's nature spirits)
    Example: Bloodsong spirit: summon a blood spirit that cause nearby allies to siphon life on hit. Active: Bloody mark: Your blood spirit teleport at your location engraving a bloody mark that will siphon life for you upon being triggered.

    Weapon: preferentially a defensive weapon (a tombstone shield could be interesting visually)

    Traits:
    Minors:
    Mantle of darkness: gain dark aura (4s) whenever you take the immortal's banner.
    Aura of the lich: summon a jagged horror whenever you spend life force.

    Major:
    Upper traitline: strengthen yourself and minions based on how many minions you control (basically DM current upper traitline).
    Middle traitline: Increase your survivability when you are under the effect of dark aura.
    Lower traitline: Improve life explosion into an aoe healing skill with larger radius... etc.

    The point is to make the elite spec's mechanic a source of minions, justifying the existence of minion's traits.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

    zerg/minion bomber will never happen on account of the playstyle not being fun to play against and AI issues but i'm actually more referring to theming. if you want a more aggressive support, that's fine but don't make it blood magic with a different name and pretend it's a different theme all together.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    As you noted, I'd like a Life Stealing and Bleeding spec that makes synergies between Blood Magic and Curses. Wields dual swords and gives Necromancer a few solid defensive skills. Shroud is called Blood Rage, and it's more like Sand Shroud than DS/RS in that it's not a 2nd HP bar.

    I'm less interested in the flavor of it so I don't particularly care whether it's a vamp or a blood knight or whatever.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

    zerg/minion bomber will never happen on account of the playstyle not being fun to play against and AI issues but i'm actually more referring to theming. if you want a more aggressive support, that's fine but don't make it blood magic with a different name and pretend it's a different theme all together.

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

    zerg/minion bomber will never happen on account of the playstyle not being fun to play against and AI issues but i'm actually more referring to theming. if you want a more aggressive support, that's fine but don't make it blood magic with a different name and pretend it's a different theme all together.

    What you're doing is a fallacy called moving the goalposts. You change the parameters when I prove you wrong.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Yannir.4132 said:
    As you noted, I'd like a Life Stealing and Bleeding spec that makes synergies between Blood Magic and Curses. Wields dual swords and gives Necromancer a few solid defensive skills. Shroud is called Blood Rage, and it's more like Sand Shroud than DS/RS in that it's not a 2nd HP bar.

    I'm less interested in the flavor of it so I don't particularly care whether it's a vamp or a blood knight or whatever.

    I'd like it to have synergy with all the specs, personally. What I primarily want is a minion bomber, but I'd be happy with a starved, beast like vampiric spec. I honestly think there's room on the spec for Power, Condition and offensive support. We have three trait lines always right? Why not explore these ideas? Themes like Thirst, Blood and empowerment.

    I Think the best fit for a vampire spec in terms of weapon is a melee weapon like sword, perhaps even sword sword. The necromancer is lacking in melee weapons and a condi weapon at melee range is quite tempting. However, i'm also a major Fan of the long bow as a weapon for a vampire spec having one of its attacks be Rain of Gore. Which sounds metal AF!

    I was working on an elite spec around the concept of self sacrifice and self bleeding that would modify its skills when it suffered from the bleed status condition or when it would enter blood shroud which would degen health while the necro was using it. But My life got complicated and I couldn't get it to function properly in my head with how it was designed. There were just some inherent hang ups with core necromancer design that held it back. Primarily the fact that utility skills are locked out while in shroud. Which did not help in that I really wanted to give the Necromancer's Spec a mechanic around awakening their utility skills through blood and shroud. The idea was that they'd use glyphs which would have two modes. A normal mode and an awakened mode which would trigger when you started to bleed or where in blood shroud. The weapon would work the same and its skills would swap over to new skills for a few seconds after bleeding. It wouldn't have the same flaw as the dagger currently does, which was my inspiration, where it would swap back instantly if the bleeding was cleansed off you, instead they'd swap for a few seconds and return to normal after those few seconds giving you enough time to use the skill without being punished by your own teammate.

    I had also wanted the spec to awaken other weapons too, such as dagger so they could use it in a new way as well, but ultimately it might have been too much. I'm still working on the spec, and I'd like to eventually get it out because its theme and design was heavily inspired by the charr specifically. I called it the pulse tracker and took influence from Pyre from GW1 who made some rather deadly, beastly comments back in GW1. The one that specifically stuck with me was a quote about "a hungry soldier is a dangerous one" which stuck with me. I can't find the exact quote atm.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

    zerg/minion bomber will never happen on account of the playstyle not being fun to play against and AI issues but i'm actually more referring to theming. if you want a more aggressive support, that's fine but don't make it blood magic with a different name and pretend it's a different theme all together.

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @derd.6413 said:
    outside of maybe shaman most of these themes are mostly covered by core specs

    They're not.

    vampire is just bloodmagic and minion master is literally death magic. and i have yet to see any version of plague or lich that isn't just an upgraded core spec

    There is no zerg spec or minion bomber in the game. And blood is a healer support. Not aggressive support. I could provide some examples of what I mean by using both gw1 and D3 as examples.

    zerg/minion bomber will never happen on account of the playstyle not being fun to play against and AI issues but i'm actually more referring to theming. if you want a more aggressive support, that's fine but don't make it blood magic with a different name and pretend it's a different theme all together.

    What you're doing is a fallacy called moving the goalposts. You change the parameters when I prove you wrong.

    no, it's called clarifying my point. you can read my first post again and see that i specifically mentioned the themes as my issue from the start.

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • NecroSummonsMors.7816NecroSummonsMors.7816 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Sword/sword, high mobility, high single target dps, duelist with sustain through new more powerfull life steal.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    For me its either going to be mionionmancer which I doubt and or a dps with some sustain and no shroud so we can do good dps not be kittened.

    I would love minions to be buffed.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Axl.8924 said:
    For me its either going to be mionionmancer which I doubt and or a dps with some sustain and no shroud so we can do good dps not be kittened.

    I would love minions to be buffed.

    Minions will never do what me and many other gw1 veterans want them to do even if they're buffed. I do agree that they should be buffed though. Even if a minion spec comes into the game or doesn't.

    I'm of the opinion that the MM elite spec's utility skills should be support skills designed to support allies or minions rather than actual minions themselves. The new minions imo should be tied to the f skills and/or the weapon. My preference is to make the spec glassy as well which would be a stark contrast to what the current MM looks like. Minions on the spec should be disposable imo. We already have high sustain minions we don't need more.

    Mostly I'm just adding to your points. As for buffs, I'd like to see bone minions to gain charges, bumped up to 3 at a time and have its life force gain for the player reduce just a bit to compensate. Flesh Wurm probably should have its cast time cut for easier use, shadow fiend is okay where it is, Bone fiend could use a bit of an ape spell treatment like how spirit weapons used to work. So like a glue shot or something. Not sure on bone fiend I'd get back to you. Flesh golem doesn't really need much if anything. Maybe make its attacks cleave.

    But I'm getting off topic now.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @NecroSummonsMors.7816 said:
    Sword/sword, high mobility, high single target dps, duelist with sustain through new more powerfull life steal.

    So more people who want a vampire elite spec. All good. I'd like to see what they can do with one as well.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    For me its either going to be mionionmancer which I doubt and or a dps with some sustain and no shroud so we can do good dps not be kittened.

    I would love minions to be buffed.

    Minions will never do what me and many other gw1 veterans want them to do even if they're buffed. I do agree that they should be buffed though. Even if a minion spec comes into the game or doesn't.

    I'm of the opinion that the MM elite spec's utility skills should be support skills designed to support allies or minions rather than actual minions themselves. The new minions imo should be tied to the f skills and/or the weapon. My preference is to make the spec glassy as well which would be a stark contrast to what the current MM looks like. Minions on the spec should be disposable imo. We already have high sustain minions we don't need more.

    Mostly I'm just adding to your points. As for buffs, I'd like to see bone minions to gain charges, bumped up to 3 at a time and have its life force gain for the player reduce just a bit to compensate. Flesh Wurm probably should have its cast time cut for easier use, shadow fiend is okay where it is, Bone fiend could use a bit of an ape spell treatment like how spirit weapons used to work. So like a glue shot or something. Not sure on bone fiend I'd get back to you. Flesh golem doesn't really need much if anything. Maybe make its attacks cleave.

    But I'm getting off topic now.

    Im just trying to get a class that isn-t completely kitten and not a punching bag, but I guess minionmancer is the wrong way to go. I fully expected since I heard others talk about minions as a way to sustain, but I was hoping maybe we can sacrifice our minions to gain invuln or sacrifice our minion for something else? I mean if minions can be op if focused on what if we get more types of pets and more buffs by sacrificing pets and it could be used to give boons to other classes? just a thought.

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Lily.1935 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:
    For me its either going to be mionionmancer which I doubt and or a dps with some sustain and no shroud so we can do good dps not be kittened.

    I would love minions to be buffed.

    Minions will never do what me and many other gw1 veterans want them to do even if they're buffed. I do agree that they should be buffed though. Even if a minion spec comes into the game or doesn't.

    I'm of the opinion that the MM elite spec's utility skills should be support skills designed to support allies or minions rather than actual minions themselves. The new minions imo should be tied to the f skills and/or the weapon. My preference is to make the spec glassy as well which would be a stark contrast to what the current MM looks like. Minions on the spec should be disposable imo. We already have high sustain minions we don't need more.

    Mostly I'm just adding to your points. As for buffs, I'd like to see bone minions to gain charges, bumped up to 3 at a time and have its life force gain for the player reduce just a bit to compensate. Flesh Wurm probably should have its cast time cut for easier use, shadow fiend is okay where it is, Bone fiend could use a bit of an ape spell treatment like how spirit weapons used to work. So like a glue shot or something. Not sure on bone fiend I'd get back to you. Flesh golem doesn't really need much if anything. Maybe make its attacks cleave.

    But I'm getting off topic now.

    Im just trying to get a class that isn-t completely kitten and not a punching bag, but I guess minionmancer is the wrong way to go. I fully expected since I heard others talk about minions as a way to sustain, but I was hoping maybe we can sacrifice our minions to gain invuln or sacrifice our minion for something else? I mean if minions can be op if focused on what if we get more types of pets and more buffs by sacrificing pets and it could be used to give boons to other classes? just a thought.

    Minions currently in the game are designed to sustain the player. I used to use a support minion tank in PvP before elite specs came out. But due to power creep it fell off pretty hard. The tools for a sustainable mm are there now, they're just not very good atm. We would need buffs to death, core necromancer(maybe) and minions for a sustain mm to function.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:
    Minions currently in the game are designed to sustain the player. I used to use a support minion tank in PvP before elite specs came out. But due to power creep it fell off pretty hard. The tools for a sustainable mm are there now, they're just not very good atm. We would need buffs to death, core necromancer(maybe) and minions for a sustain mm to function.

    If minions were part of the special mechanism of the necromancer (the shroud/shade) I wouldn't mind all the traits that barely make them sustain tools, however that's not the case. Minions currently aren't designed to sustain the players, 5 traits are dedicated to allow them to barely sustain the player. The difference might be thin but it represent a huge investment that cripple the necromancer at it's core. Without those traits there is barely any sustain involved with minions.

    If ANet want minions to be sustain tool via numerous traits, they would have to make the necromancer's special mechanism naturally and reliably create minions, not through sloting skills or taking a trait.

  • Gamble.4580Gamble.4580 Member ✭✭✭

    An undead build. Like mes has the abilty to raise dead so they can fight more.. why is that not a necro thing

  • Drarnor Kunoram.5180Drarnor Kunoram.5180 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019
    Vampire(Bleeds and life steal)

    I've been working on my own version of a hyper-aggressive lifesteal spec. Been working on how precisely I want to capture the desired absurdity of their power when low on health, though. It's a tough thing to balance out, as you want to consider how such low-health buffs work in team settings when you may have allies healing you.

    So far, I've settled on getting permanent Quickness and Alacrity when below a health threshold, as in raids those can be supplied while keeping at full health, but I'm interested in more options as well, since I don't feel that's enough.

    Plague Signet is the only skill in the game that is worse when traited.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @Drarnor Kunoram.5180 said:
    I've been working on my own version of a hyper-aggressive lifesteal spec.
    So far, I've settled on getting permanent Quickness and Alacrity when below a health threshold, as in raids those can be supplied while keeping at full health, but I'm interested in more options as well, since I don't feel that's enough.

    In my opinion, the game needs less "hyper-agressive" play styles and less boon application.
    And the current existing ones need huge nerfs.

  • Thornwolf.9721Thornwolf.9721 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Lich(tank)

    A tank would be cool, Especially with bone armor and perhaps an ephemeral demon/shade behind the caster who eventually will be the form they take when they use shroud. I like the idea of becoming a big monstrosity who just brings havoc onto the battlefield, Making it darker and a more occultist take who perhaps even is completely different in its separate theme from necromancer could be cool.

    I love the idea of some eldritch horror, abomination bloodborne esq thing being stuff we passively summon and perhaps become.

  • Axl.8924Axl.8924 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    A tank would be cool, Especially with bone armor and perhaps an ephemeral demon/shade behind the caster who eventually will be the form they take when they use shroud. I like the idea of becoming a big monstrosity who just brings havoc onto the battlefield, Making it darker and a more occultist take who perhaps even is completely different in its separate theme from necromancer could be cool.

    I love the idea of some eldritch horror, abomination bloodborne esq thing being stuff we passively summon and perhaps become.

    hmm in order to be a tank like a Mesmer they would need invulns and stuff no?

    Here is my list of characters i got so far:

    Elementalist 80 with tempest:Talman nul
    Necromancer 80 with reaper:Zex vokar
    Mesmer level 80 no chrono yet:Klanga voosh.
    Level 80 Ranger with druid spec Jedkhan.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    A tank would be cool, Especially with bone armor and perhaps an ephemeral demon/shade behind the caster who eventually will be the form they take when they use shroud. I like the idea of becoming a big monstrosity who just brings havoc onto the battlefield, Making it darker and a more occultist take who perhaps even is completely different in its separate theme from necromancer could be cool.

    I love the idea of some eldritch horror, abomination bloodborne esq thing being stuff we passively summon and perhaps become.

    hmm in order to be a tank like a Mesmer they would need invulns and stuff no?

    Nope, in order to be a tank like mesmer you don't need invuln and stuff like that... You just need to have survivability and provide a wanted support effects at a competitive level. Unfortunately the necromancer isn't thematically designed to provide boons or beneficial effects at a competitive level, the necromancer is thematically designed to reduce the effectiveness of it's foes. Unfortunately, again, increasing shared benefecial effects numbers and effectiveness doesn't seem to bother ANet's devs, while going beyond what the current debuff can do seem a bit difficult for ANet's devs to accept.

    Technically, to be a tank like mesmer, the necromancer would have to be able to have some survivability and break through the limit of the "essential" debuffs (well there is not that much in PvE, basically only vulnerability isn't nerfed to the ground by the breakbar system).

    Give the necromancer a non stackable debuff that reduce the defense of it's foe by a percentage of it's toughness (let's call it touch of death or whatever) and you automatically push him into a meta tank spot in PvE. A necromancer can easily breach 2000 point of toughness, if you set the debuff so that it reduce the necromancer's foe's defense by 10% of the necromancer's toughness, that's already reducing it by 200 points which wouldn't be negligible for any group in PvE all while making death magic and minions more attractive as tanking abilities. Even the impact on PvP/WvW wouldn't be great enough to be an issue.

    ANet's main issue in content developpement is that they unconsciously favor offensive stats over defensive stats. There is almost no room for defensive stats to shine, often making them unattractive.

  • Plague Doctor(Affliction)

    I wish we could get an elite spec which is good for condi and power. I don't want to be locked in "condi or nothing".

    Commander, to ME!

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    where is NONE? I see that already all described spec a present.

  • None of the above.

    I would like to see something that transforms you into a spirit that makes you invulnerable but forces you to summon spirits to attack your enemies. When spirit form wears off you have 1 health + health per condition on you.

  • Lily.1935Lily.1935 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Minion Master(Bomb and zerg)

    @Dadnir.5038 said:

    @Axl.8924 said:

    @Thornwolf.9721 said:
    A tank would be cool, Especially with bone armor and perhaps an ephemeral demon/shade behind the caster who eventually will be the form they take when they use shroud. I like the idea of becoming a big monstrosity who just brings havoc onto the battlefield, Making it darker and a more occultist take who perhaps even is completely different in its separate theme from necromancer could be cool.

    I love the idea of some eldritch horror, abomination bloodborne esq thing being stuff we passively summon and perhaps become.

    hmm in order to be a tank like a Mesmer they would need invulns and stuff no?

    Nope, in order to be a tank like mesmer you don't need invuln and stuff like that... You just need to have survivability and provide a wanted support effects at a competitive level. Unfortunately the necromancer isn't thematically designed to provide boons or beneficial effects at a competitive level, the necromancer is thematically designed to reduce the effectiveness of it's foes. Unfortunately, again, increasing shared benefecial effects numbers and effectiveness doesn't seem to bother ANet's devs, while going beyond what the current debuff can do seem a bit difficult for ANet's devs to accept.

    Technically, to be a tank like mesmer, the necromancer would have to be able to have some survivability and break through the limit of the "essential" debuffs (well there is not that much in PvE, basically only vulnerability isn't nerfed to the ground by the breakbar system).

    Give the necromancer a non stackable debuff that reduce the defense of it's foe by a percentage of it's toughness (let's call it touch of death or whatever) and you automatically push him into a meta tank spot in PvE. A necromancer can easily breach 2000 point of toughness, if you set the debuff so that it reduce the necromancer's foe's defense by 10% of the necromancer's toughness, that's already reducing it by 200 points which wouldn't be negligible for any group in PvE all while making death magic and minions more attractive as tanking abilities. Even the impact on PvP/WvW wouldn't be great enough to be an issue.

    ANet's main issue in content developpement is that they unconsciously favor offensive stats over defensive stats. There is almost no room for defensive stats to shine, often making them unattractive.

    Necromancer was a powerful support back in GW1. Crazy how much different the two classes are.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Lily.1935 said:

    Necromancer was a powerful support back in GW1. Crazy how much different the two classes are.

    Yep, if we look at GW1's necromancer, GW2's necromancer should have alacrity (since giving mana is the same as reducing CD) and slow. GW1's necromancer wasn't even close to be as selfish as GW2's necromancer, but somehow it ended up as The selfish profession of GW2. Blood magic in GW1 gave powerful healing support, orders gave offensive support, marks basically allowed allies to deal aoe damage with single target attack... etc. You could even make some allies immun to some conditions. How the core necromancer ended up into a selfish shroud user even worse at support than a warrior is beyond common sense.

    I'm not saying that moving toward the design idea of shrouding oneself into lifeforce wasn't a good idea for the GW2 necromancer (it was quite interesting), but there is way to much of the gw1 necromancer that have been lost in the process. The change is simply to drastic and hardly make sense in the end.

    The difference between GW1 necromancer and GW2's necromancer lead to to many questions in the end:

    • Why did it lose it's support when it was one of the best support in GW1? I mean, natural selection often lead you to take the path that your best at.
    • How come the necromancer ended up with a large health pool when it was at it's best when he had the lowest health pool possible in GW1? Using common sense, the necromancer should never have walked the path leading to own a large health pool.
    • Why the necromancer ended up having movement skills less effective than the other profession when he used to be one of the only professions with movement skill? That make no sense.
    • Why a profession that was even able to reduce all it's foes attributes to 0 isn't able to have unique debuffs reducing it's foe's strength or toughness? Did they round it up into boon ripping/boon corruption? Does it even make sense?
    • ... etc.

    And then GW2 necromancer in itself lead to new questions:

    • If he chose to walk the path leading to a large health pool, why did he give up on the tools that allowed him to retaliate when he take a beating? I mean, it took 7 years for ANet to introduce dark aura in this game and the necromancer in those 7 years lost almost oll it's access to retaliatory tools. Worse, the necromancer can hardly get dark aura.
    • Why do the necromancer have many traits related to minions when minions are a minor part of the necromancer that's not even supported by the main mechanism? The necromancer give up tools that would make the best out of it's mechanism yet he stay highly invested in "trash" tools like minions... Nonsense!
    • Why do the necromancer have 5 minions related trait and 0 spectral related traits when minions aren't related to it's special mechanism while spectral are directly related?
    • Why do traits buff minions passively when minions active skills are the one that badly need support from traits?
    • Why keep a 35s CD on well of darkness when nightfall do the same job with additional effects on a 25s CD?
    • ... etc.

    And on top of that GW2's environment itself incompatibility with the necromancer's design lead to interrogation:

    • Why is the necromancer's dps dependant on boon corruption and sending back condition when the environment hardly rely on boon and conditions?
    • Why is the necromancer focused on debuff when the environment can ignore 90% of the debuff?
    • How come the necromancer developped itself as a slow profession in an environment where the faster you are the better your result are?
    • How come ANet don't realise that boon corruption in PvE is infinitely inferior to boon corruption in PvP/WvW?
    • ... etc.

    From the choice of evolution of the necromancer to the current necromancer and how the environment is designed, absolutely nothing make sense. There are obvious simple changes that could resolve some of those nonsense yet we are 7-8 year in the game and ANet devs just continue to develop the necromancer in this curiously incompatible direction, keeping design nonsense alive and kicking, creating imbalance everywhere.

  • Always thought a spec that had low damage attacks but made up for it in attack speed and mobility would be cool. Like some kind of spectre. With a shroud that could make them partially incorporeal. I can't vote for the ones above though since I feel that people have already tried and failed many of these concepts.

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