Idea: Black Lion Reward Track? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Idea: Black Lion Reward Track?

I'll let the devs hash out the details, but give this thread a +1 if you like the idea of a Black Lion themed reward track.

I always hungrily go for the tracks that award keys, only to find they're not repeatable. I understand that keys are maybe a bit TOO valuable to have as a repeatable reward, but statuettes? Chest of Black Lion Goods? I'd grind away at a reward track for 1 statuette at the end, tbh...

Comments

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    Like weekly keyrun but you actually have to play? Seems good enough.

  • NO!

    I honestly can't say how much I dislike the idea of even more rewards in sPvP. We already get a lot of gold and stuff and even more rewards would only lure in more casual PvE players who think they can just grab ez shinies while destroying any form of competitiveness and after getting beaten up - because even your starting rating of gold 2 is way too high for them - they just come to the forums and whine even more.
    Give ranked sPvP a full team queue and I won't say anything but in the current form with solo/duo Q it's just way too much coinflip already, so no thanks we don't need more coinflip due to unexperienced and uninterested wanna-be-skritts trying to get a quick item grab.

  • @djemben.6924 said:
    I'd grind away at a reward track for 1 statuette at the end, tbh...

    Which is probably why it hasn't happened. ANet wants BL keys to drive purchases of gems with real money and/or as a gold sink. Giving them away defeats the purpose, which is why ANet nerfed the key farm, which only yielded 3-4 keys/hour.

    Hype is the path to the dark side. Hype leads to unfulfilled expectations. Disappointment leads to anger. Anger leads to disgust. Disgust leads to "oh, new shinies! I'm back!"

  • MyPuppy.8970MyPuppy.8970 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Bigger bags is all I need.

  • @Illconceived Was Na.9781 said:

    @djemben.6924 said:
    I'd grind away at a reward track for 1 statuette at the end, tbh...

    Which is probably why it hasn't happened. ANet wants BL keys to drive purchases of gems with real money and/or as a gold sink. Giving them away defeats the purpose, which is why ANet nerfed the key farm, which only yielded 3-4 keys/hour.

    I'm curious about their sales stats, as I never invest gold into keys, but will gladly pick up the outfit or weapon skin using gold-gem exchange if needed. Keys are such a waste of money / gold, it would be reasonable to have another way to earn black lion goods... it's not like reward tracks are easy to farm... anyone without a life might get 7 completions a week on average, but most people who play this game have lives.

    And to reiterate, I'm not even suggesting keys be a reward. I'd go for statuettes, ticket scraps, etc.

  • Taygus.4571Taygus.4571 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I actually think this would be an easy way to get alot of players back into pvp.

    Maybe rather than a constant repeatable reward track, it could be one thats only available every now and then, kind of like the festival tracks.
    Getting players into the mode, would be worth the loss.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    The chance of Anet dishing out Gem Store Content on a repeatable basis is close to zero since it's their main source of income. If anything they'll do small appetizers like the non repeatable Rew Tracks with one BL Key or the occasional free minor gemstore item. A weekly one that rewards one key would probably still be okay (since personal story does essentially the same), but I don't see them offering more.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
    The Smiths about mAT return and PvP content

  • I've thought about this before and the idea of the final reward being a single key among some other things like ascended mats or even a bonus box of goods would be pretty cool. I don't think it would hurt their gem store too much as keys already drop in the world as well. Even if they are rare, they do drop. I'm not really sure how else the rest of the track could be laid out though to make it interesting. Various champ bags? Mist wrapped packets or bundles? Reward tracks are pretty bland overall though. I wish they would include more desirable things but then again, I don't know what that would really be given that most loot in the game now is getting so high in supply that they are mostly worthless.

  • @Blackarps.1974 said:
    I've thought about this before and the idea of the final reward being a single key among some other things like ascended mats or even a bonus box of goods would be pretty cool. I don't think it would hurt their gem store too much as keys already drop in the world as well. Even if they are rare, they do drop. I'm not really sure how else the rest of the track could be laid out though to make it interesting. Various champ bags? Mist wrapped packets or bundles? Reward tracks are pretty bland overall though. I wish they would include more desirable things but then again, I don't know what that would really be given that most loot in the game now is getting so high in supply that they are mostly worthless.

    These already exist btw - check out the Jungle Rank Reward tracks. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Reward_Track

  • Jungle Rank Reward tracks end once you reach Dragon, so their days are numbered on any given account.

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @djemben.6924 said:
    I'll let the devs hash out the details, but give this thread a +1 if you like the idea of a Black Lion themed reward track.

    I always hungrily go for the tracks that award keys, only to find they're not repeatable. I understand that keys are maybe a bit TOO valuable to have as a repeatable reward, but statuettes? Chest of Black Lion Goods? I'd grind away at a reward track for 1 statuette at the end, tbh...

    You're already playing the most lucrative game mode.
    Gold to Gems for a key and a guaranteed statuette is already well within your reach

  • Yannir.4132Yannir.4132 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I wouldn't mind a Reward Track like this but being realistic, it's not going to happen.

    PS. Black Lion Keys have about the same drop rate in OW as legendary precursors do. Just remember that next time you get a BL key as an OW drop. It could've been a precursor.

  • @ollbirtan.2915 said:

    @Blackarps.1974 said:
    I've thought about this before and the idea of the final reward being a single key among some other things like ascended mats or even a bonus box of goods would be pretty cool. I don't think it would hurt their gem store too much as keys already drop in the world as well. Even if they are rare, they do drop. I'm not really sure how else the rest of the track could be laid out though to make it interesting. Various champ bags? Mist wrapped packets or bundles? Reward tracks are pretty bland overall though. I wish they would include more desirable things but then again, I don't know what that would really be given that most loot in the game now is getting so high in supply that they are mostly worthless.

    These already exist btw - check out the Jungle Rank Reward tracks. https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/PvP_Reward_Track

    Not repeatable though.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    With how much you can actually get in PvP, its probably better to implement this into WvW tbh. Their "rewards" are not as good as PvP (gold wise at least) and WvW has more numbers dropping than PvP so it could revitalize the mode.

    I will say its not the worst idea I have heard tho for PvP

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  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    the only thing i'd say... stop trying to make Anet not to make money

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  • So (correct me if I am wrong) from what I can tell the prevailing counterclaim in this thread is that a Black Lion themed reward track would have a significant impact on ArenaNet's monetary earnings. Where is the evidence / data to support this claim?

    I'll elaborate for those who care to read:

    To discover if a Black Lion track is a truly viable option or not, we would need to compare some parameters:

    • Average gold earnings per active account per unit time in PvE
    • Average gold earnings per active account per unit time in PvP
    • ... let's throw WvW into that to be inclusive
    • A conversion factor of gold to keys (let's say keys for now) based on current gold-to-gem exchange rate
    • ... also consider replacing "average" parameters with "projected maximum" parameters to test how well gold can be farmed into keys

    From these parameters, we can calculate average keys earned per unit time in each game format. If PvP already earns more keys per unit time via gold earned, we can immediately dismiss the idea of a Black Lion reward track, because PvP already gives the player an advantage in earning keys. If, however, PvP is less lucrative then any other formats (say, PvE), we can take the difference in gold earned and use that to project a reasonable gold-value equivalent of Black Lion rewards in a reward track. That way, PvPing with such a reward track is no more profitable than PvEing without one and just buying keys outright with gold.

    Note: I know many of you are more accomplished mathematicians than me and will have good ideas on how to improve my metric. I'm already aware of many shortcomings in my proposed model and want to emphasize that I'm trying to conceptually explain how we would go about this. Please keep this thread about your support or lack thereof of the Black Lion reward track and not of my primitive mathematical model :)

  • idea: give players a percentage of quarterly profits.
    dood seriously, no.

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  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @djemben.6924 said:
    So (correct me if I am wrong) from what I can tell the prevailing counterclaim in this thread is that a Black Lion themed reward track would have a significant impact on ArenaNet's monetary earnings. Where is the evidence / data to support this claim?

    Wait.. isn't that just not common sense? Also.. isn't a bit hypocritical to suggest making cash shop stuff available ingame, so you don't have to spend money on it and then to ask for evidence why they'd make less money by doing this?
    Also, you are the one claiming it wouldn't hurt their earnings in the first place. Where is your evidence/data to support this claim?

    (...) If PvP already earns more keys per unit time via gold earned, we can immediately dismiss the idea of a Black Lion reward track, because PvP already gives the player an advantage in earning keys. If, however, PvP is less lucrative then any other formats (say, PvE), we can take the difference in gold earned and use that to project a reasonable gold-value equivalent of Black Lion rewards in a reward track. That way, PvPing with such a reward track is no more profitable than PvEing without one and just buying keys outright with gold.

    I don't know where this "all modes have to be equal" idea comes from. I don't expect a lot of rewards from PvP tbh, if I want to get money I'll just go to Istan or Silverwastes and farm for a couple hours there or flip stuff in the trading post or go raiding or what not.. I don't want to get it taken away from me that I have to do something else as well. I mean.. We have the luxury of not having to care for gear or getting skill points or whatsoever in sPvP so you already have very little incentive to play PvE as PvP player on top of already getting a kitten of gold, mats and other stuff to sell/use from sPvP. Especially for ranked matches during a season.

    And even more importantly, I don't want all those Skritts in sPvP who are only there to get the rewards with 0 effort.
    I wouldn't mind a black lion related reward track if reward points would be exclusive to the winning team so ppl have to tryhard and can't simply afk because they eventually get the reward anyway. But this isn't casual friendly so this will probably never come.

  • @DoomNexus.5324 said:

    @djemben.6924 said:
    So (correct me if I am wrong) from what I can tell the prevailing counterclaim in this thread is that a Black Lion themed reward track would have a significant impact on ArenaNet's monetary earnings. Where is the evidence / data to support this claim?

    Wait.. isn't that just not common sense? Also.. isn't a bit hypocritical to suggest making cash shop stuff available ingame, so you don't have to spend money on it and then to ask for evidence why they'd make less money by doing this?
    Also, you are the one claiming it wouldn't hurt their earnings in the first place. Where is your evidence/data to support this claim?

    I am merely asking a question: Would a Black Lion Reward Track be viable? Asking a question does not require evidence, but developing meaningful answers to such a question does. I'm merely stating that I find the so-called "evidence" insufficient, as so far I have seen no data to support the aforementioned counterclaim. As it stands, the (significant) loss-of-profit counterclaim remains just that. A claim.

    As to the suggestion of hypocrisy, you're right. To make a suggestion as you characterize it would be hypocritical. However, I will never, ever spend real money on Black Lion Keys. In my view, it's unethical even to sell DLC that involves RNG (some states / countries have gambling laws that cover this). I am assuming I am not the only one who can resist the urge to spend real money on keys, meaning the only way I will get them or their subsequent rewards is through in-game means.

    In conclusion, my suggestion of a reward track represents a simple shift in availability, where those of us who do not buy keys and never will can have another available means to seek this DLC. Remember: there are already ways to farm keys outside of buying them! ... a fact that is being largely ignored by those claiming profit losses would be a major factor. I'm sorry, but just saying something enough doesn't make it true.

    P.S. As I said before, it doesn't have to be keys! other less-valued rewards would be reasonable to consider as well...

  • DoomNexus.5324DoomNexus.5324 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @djemben.6924 said:
    Remember: there are already ways to farm keys outside of buying them! ... a fact that is being largely ignored by those claiming profit losses would be a major factor.

    True but is there another method to actually farm keys than the weekly story mission key? I honestly don't know, if there is please correct me.
    If not then the answer is easy: Since the key is heavily time gated and you can only do it once per week, there's nothing you can grind for and keep until you need it. It also requires you to permanently keep a character slot free so you can restart the mission every week.
    Now the problem with a cash shop-y reward track in comparison to the existing farm method is I'd assume Anet would need to rotate the rewards just like black lion chest content, just to keep the stuff at least somewhat valuable so ppl keep on spending money or gold on keys. And if this is the case then the whole system could easily be exploited by just saving the daily pvp potions until something actually valuable is in the rotation. And if there wouldn't be a rotation then the stuff you'd get would probably become worthless pretty kitten fast. So without any changes to the actual underlaying reward track system (and other systems like for example you need pvp potions for guild halls and stuff) it would only result in a lose-lose situation.

    Also on a side note:

    @djemben.6924 said:
    (...) but will gladly pick up the outfit or weapon skin using gold-gem exchange if needed. Keys are such a waste of money / gold

    You do realize that by exchanging gold for gems you are actively keeping the exchange rate low, right? So everyone who's converting gold to gem actually makes gold less valuable in comparison and therefore even less ppl can afford the cash shop stuff via ingame gold, therefore ppl have a bigger incentive to actually pay real money.
    So even tho you are not using real money or spend the gems on keys you are still supporting Anet earning money.

    Also, yes of course, keys are a big waste of money but it's the same reason why casinos, lottery or basically any form of gambling are as popular as they are. Even tho the vast majority just makes losses, the hope you are the 1% actually making profit of it or getting the stuff you want keeps a lot of ppl going.
    That's the entire point of gambling, same with ecto gambling ingame. It's just psychology. People have a distorted reality. If you have a 1 in a billion chance to win the lottery everyone's like "I will be the ONE!!" but when you have like a 1 in 10000 chance to get cancer because of smoking or something everyone's like "Naah dude, I'll be fine, whatever".

    I am merely asking a question: Would a Black Lion Reward Track be viable?

    Only Anet can answer that tbh but as far as I can see, I'd assume it would have a pretty bad impact on several levels aspects of the game. I don't have evidence, it's just an educated guess so I won't go into detail here.
    But as I said, as long as Anet doesn't comment on this (and I'm 99,9% sure they won't) we don't know and I would assume this will never come.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    @djemben.6924 said:
    I'll let the devs hash out the details, but give this thread a +1 if you like the idea of a Black Lion themed reward track.

    I always hungrily go for the tracks that award keys, only to find they're not repeatable. I understand that keys are maybe a bit TOO valuable to have as a repeatable reward, but statuettes? Chest of Black Lion Goods? I'd grind away at a reward track for 1 statuette at the end, tbh...

    It could easily grant an item that's 1/10 a Black Lion key per track completed. So completing the track 10x would yield a 1x Black Lion Key.

    Something like that could work.

    @DoomNexus.5324 said:
    NO!

    I honestly can't say how much I dislike the idea of even more rewards in sPvP. We already get a lot of gold and stuff and even more rewards would only lure in more casual PvE players who think they can just grab ez shinies while destroying any form of competitiveness and after getting beaten up - because even your starting rating of gold 2 is way too high for them - they just come to the forums and whine even more.
    Give ranked sPvP a full team queue and I won't say anything but in the current form with solo/duo Q it's just way too much coinflip already, so no thanks we don't need more coinflip due to unexperienced and uninterested wanna-be-skritts trying to get a quick item grab.

    A year ago I would have agreed. Now? My friend, we just need people in spvp period.

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    I actually think this would be an easy way to get alot of players back into pvp.

    Darn skippy.

    @crepuscular.9047 said:
    the only thing i'd say... stop trying to make Anet not to make money

    Ok, so at the end of the Black Lion Reward Track, it lets you open a box, and when you open that box it opens the Gem Shop and auto loads a one time per track completion promo that allows you a 50% discount on Black Lions Keys. You also hear the Mad King laugh when it happens.

    ~ Oh and on a side note, I had once made a thread about a Fractal Reward Track. Telling you these kinds of things would strongly cross promote pve to try spvp, and that is what we need right now. I normally would never support the idea of using raw rewards for bandaid fixing, but seriously... spvp isn't going to survive another season or two if something isn't done -- right now--. Sure, the mode will be around next season or the season after, but it's going to be a #$%^show beyond comprehension and all of us left will actually be forced to accept that the game no longer functions, and that we have to find something else to do.

    ~ Mark my words.

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