What counters Holo? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What counters Holo?

This is basically what my ranked experience has boiled down to. I do pretty well against basically everything but Holos. Just tell me what profession does the best against Holo so I can start learning it and stop losing based on how many more Holos the enemy team has.

<1

Comments

  • I can 1v1 them on my Fire Weaver

  • condi damage

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭

    Dodge particle accelerator with static discharge.
    Don't get hit by Holo 3 or else they get stability.
    Don't get hit by the block wall.
    Don't get hit by Holo 5, Elite or rifle knockback.
    After all that it only takes some stuns and damage as they're squishy and only have a single stun break.

    Prot holo is very weak to boon corruption but solid vs many classes. So treat it like old scrapper. Don't fight on a capped node. It's damage only comes from holo mode.

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Condi DrD counters the kitten out of Holo.

  • How do u not get hit by holo 3 tho. U have to avoid both hits.

  • Tycura.1982Tycura.1982 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @H a z Z y.1762 said:
    How do u not get hit by holo 3 tho. U have to avoid both hits.

    Well i play warrior so in my case I typically either shield 5 both hits of it or evade the first and GS3 the second hit. They really need that stab and denying them is absolutely worth a big skill like shield 5.

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    Condi mirage

  • Alatar.7364Alatar.7364 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mostly condi damage.
    Namely the best ones: Condi DrD, Fire Weaver and Condi Mirage.

    ~ I Aear cân ven na mar

  • At same skill level, I think that Rev win VS holo

  • As a thief main who also mained Rev and Holo for quite some time I'd recommend to just try Holo yourself and you'll get a pretty good idea how you outplay them (on other classes ofc. this is not a "Can't beat it -> join it"- advice). Once you get to know its toolset it's actually one of the easier classes to counter imo. One of the most critical things is to dodge photon forge 5 and keep a stun break off-cooldown so that you can break the knockdown if you couldn't manage to dodge it. Managing their CC output is key, so if you play a class with access to stab you should learn to time your stab application. If you have access to a (passive) reflect - like guard bubble or something - you should wait until they're out of their forge.

    Stacking Holos or Holos who are firebrand carried are a different kind of kitten tho.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    Avoid Corona Burst, then Conditions, mostly confusion.

    Most holo's tend to stack CC's so don't be too quick to stunbreak. Of course you can't evade them all so counting their CC's and making the proper trade offs is where the fight mostly gets defined.

    As a condition revenant, my best tool is Banish Enchantment to apply confusion with boon removal as a bonus while it's also unblockable. The rest is just making sure I'm not CC locked.

  • Falan.1839Falan.1839 Member ✭✭✭

    Scourge, Core Nec, Fire Weaver, Condi Daredevil, Hybrid Sage FB, Strength Spellbreaker when well played. The revamped boonbeast spec should have a solid chance too if he brings enough stab/stunbreak.

    "When you say it's gonna happen "now"
    When exactly do you mean?
    See I've already waited too long
    And all my hope is gone"
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  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭

    All you have to do is play an even more cancer spec (condi spam mes/thief/ele).

  • Zephoid.4263Zephoid.4263 Member ✭✭✭

    Not a whole lot. While most people say 'condi', holo is a pretty good counter to scourge due to the quantity of lower cd CC (and scourges lack of stab, few stun breaks, and no access to vigor). That leaves a lot of the lesser played condi classes. One of the reason for the big uptick in burning guards is that they do reasonably well vs holos. I can confirm that codi DD just shreds them with sword 2 almost no counterplay possible from the holo.

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    A class that has:

    • Infinite evades or damage mitigation or both (every CC of theirs you have to dodge or stun break otherwise you eat dat sweet perma-quickness deeps burst)
    • Good cc (they have one stun breaker)
    • Absurd burst be it condi or phys (even if you cc them, if you can't pile it on then it's pointless)
    • No stealth (it will be pointless as they literally spam reveal with zero effort)
    • Boon corruption (because they have permanent almost every single boon for 20+ seconds)

    Not broken at all btw.

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    From experience playing holo (albeit a couple of seasons ago)

    What generally made me feel like I was getting countered was basically anything that could put out sustained heavy ranged damage while keeping out of reach. While holosmith does have some projectile hate, the duration is relatively short: holoforge itself doesn't offer any, and most holosmiths are likely to be running rifle, which doesn't offer much defence against ranged attacks. If they're running rifle, just focus on avoidance (or flanking shots) while the photon wall is up and unless once it's down again. If they're running sword/shield they'll have a bit more defence, but they won't be able to apply ranged counterpressure in return.

    Also, if you really want to punish them, you can try forcing them into an overheat.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    As a holo myself, generally : CC > Power, or straight Condi does the trick. Holos are generally so focused on damage, they frequently have very little to no protection. Their damage comes from their Momentum. So -yes- if you dodge the initial CC, you've more or less won.

    Also agreed with draxynnic. Ranged is a pain, no matter what they're using. Ranged weapons on engineer is all around subpar.

  • RisenHowl.2419RisenHowl.2419 Member ✭✭✭✭

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

    People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

    And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

    And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

    It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

    It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

    Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

    That's not realistic though : If you have a pistol, you dont have a net. Among a lot of other things.

    How to know when to dodge is simple, the big CC of a Holo is Holographic Wave, the Holo will leap upward and slam down. Start your dodge after the leap. The knockdown also have a fairly long cooldown, if you're playing against a highly aggressive Holo, they'll enter holo forge 1 time without CC before using it again (First Holo forge use holographic wave, second holo forge, wave is in cooldown, third holo forge, wave is available again.) The stealth require a utility slot to be specifically assigned to Stealth Elixir, which is a Huge loss in DPS. If you have soft CC on them, such as cripple or slow, a simple area of affect will damage them and break stealth. Also what is that talk of resetting cooldowns ? When have holo been able to reset their cooldowns ?

    To wit, the latest patch has made Toolbelt barely useable on Holo as it stands. If you use holoforge, you run the risk of a player CCing you at the end of your forge, and overheat, locking all your toolbelt skills, ontop of the burn and initial damage. That is a Brutal counter. I have to ponder why it isn't used as such

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

    People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

    And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

    And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

    It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

    It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

    Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

    That's not realistic though : If you have a pistol, you dont have a net. Among a lot of other things.

    How to know when to dodge is simple, the big CC of a Holo is Holographic Wave, the Holo will leap upward and slam down. Start your dodge after the leap. The knockdown also have a fairly long cooldown, if you're playing against a highly aggressive Holo, they'll enter holo forge 1 time without CC before using it again (First Holo forge use holographic wave, second holo forge, wave is in cooldown, third holo forge, wave is available again.) The stealth require a utility slot to be specifically assigned to Stealth Elixir, which is a Huge loss in DPS. If you have soft CC on them, such as cripple or slow, a simple area of affect will damage them and break stealth. Also what is that talk of resetting cooldowns ? When have holo been able to reset their cooldowns ?

    To wit, the latest patch has made Toolbelt barely useable on Holo as it stands. If you use holoforge, you run the risk of a player CCing you at the end of your forge, and overheat, locking all your toolbelt skills, ontop of the burn and initial damage. That is a Brutal counter. I have to ponder why it isn't used as such

    The pistol I meant is holo forge 2. The high damage one. Well, one of them. Lol

  • condi thief is a pretty good counter to basically anything at the moment.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Condi daredevil, usually. Unless they're actually good and not just playing holo because a 3 month old 1 armed baby could play it semi-successfully.

    People always say to dodge certain skills. But like, the entire screen is lit up with every other skill, so I never really know what to look for.

    And if you dodge the knockdown, you have to save some dodges for the two knockbacks. And the holo 2 pistol blast. And the net immob if you don't have los.

    And if you successfully dodge all those and get 25% health down, surprise, they've used any number of their two leap water combos, or their turret. Oh, now they've stealthed and reset their health and cooldowns. Time to dodge again.

    It feels like what they've done with mirage, repeatedly nerfed or gutted certain aspects of it but the design in general just has such a major toolkit that there's really no way to even balance it without redesigning the entire spec.

    It almost feels like they were less of a problem when the dodge bomb kit was meta, because at least then you didn't have all of this passive toolbelt damage and constant quickness and superspeed and everything else to go along with it.

    Maybe their current toolkit would be fine if their damage was nerfed significantly more, so it was less about spamming and more about chaining combos. Right now it's just too easy to kill stuff without all those skillfully coordinated abilities. I mean it's great for me, because I'm bad, and I can hop on holo in a low ranked or unranked match and feel like I'm just so good at the game, but when half or more of the pvp lobby arena are holos at any given time and they're all legendary or plat, I feel like that's a pretty good indication that something is a bit off.

    That's not realistic though : If you have a pistol, you dont have a net. Among a lot of other things.

    How to know when to dodge is simple, the big CC of a Holo is Holographic Wave, the Holo will leap upward and slam down. Start your dodge after the leap. The knockdown also have a fairly long cooldown, if you're playing against a highly aggressive Holo, they'll enter holo forge 1 time without CC before using it again (First Holo forge use holographic wave, second holo forge, wave is in cooldown, third holo forge, wave is available again.) The stealth require a utility slot to be specifically assigned to Stealth Elixir, which is a Huge loss in DPS. If you have soft CC on them, such as cripple or slow, a simple area of affect will damage them and break stealth. Also what is that talk of resetting cooldowns ? When have holo been able to reset their cooldowns ?

    To wit, the latest patch has made Toolbelt barely useable on Holo as it stands. If you use holoforge, you run the risk of a player CCing you at the end of your forge, and overheat, locking all your toolbelt skills, ontop of the burn and initial damage. That is a Brutal counter. I have to ponder why it isn't used as such

    The pistol I meant is holo forge 2. The high damage one. Well, one of them. Lol

    Holoforge 2 is a low damage leap-to-target attack, I doubt that's the one you mean, though you mentioning Pistols and Holo tells me you mean Holo 4, which is the bullet spam skill. That one Kind of have no tells, it's a copy of Thief Dual Pistol 3, and Ranger Longbow 2. In both of those cases, dodging is only Partially effective. I recommend a dodge behind an obstacle, those skills are highly succeptible to having line of sight broken, and often enough, players will let the animation play out, leaving themselves open. A charge Evade, like greatsword 3 on warrior, on a Staff 2 on Daredevil is highly effective, especially if you follow it with a hard CC, both are available to those predominantely melee classes, if you're ranged based, most classes will have options to outrange that, a longbow ranger, or a staff elementalist will easily outrange it, Staff elementalist can setup a reverse counter similar to the warrior's, by using Burning Retreat, to dodge and quickly get out of range, to start laying in the hurt.

    To be fair, one of the more solid way to Hard counter a holo no matter what is Retaliation. I've been consistently killed by it when trying to use Holoforge against guardians.

    I should also mention, if you see a Holo using that skill, and Holographic Wave (the CC one), that means that Holo has essentially reached 50+ overheat, if they've not used any other skills, it's a good way to gauge how close to overheat they are, hence why countering them with the above method with a CC is more than likely going to Down them by overheat, if your hits dont do it

  • ArthurDent.9538ArthurDent.9538 Member ✭✭✭✭

    One thing I continuously see posted about holo is that you should always dodge the shock-wave knock down however when we look at the skill:

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Holographic_Shockwave

    We see the damage it does is only "Damage: 219 (0.56)?" this is actually the lowest damage skill in the entire photon forge kit and is really low for a 3/4 second cast in general. This means that the threat of this skill isn't the damage it is the knockdown + followup damage so depending on your build it is often better to tank the hit, and mitigate the cc with stunbreak/stability while saving dodges for all the higher damage skills they will throw at you.

    Also lol at retal being a holo counter, retal counters builds with low self healing that rely more on evades and blocks to survive like thief, mes, and rev or classes that depend on lots of fast hitting abilities like fresh air ele. Holo has absolute top tier self healing for a build with no healing power so it isn't close to the first category and it isn't really in the second either unless you are using and camping grenade kit or flamethrower for some strange reason.

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Literally every class can beat holo if you outskill them. Holo beats you if you get outskilled or play a bad build.

    FB (sage fb)
    Spellbreaker (standard meta build)
    Rev (meta build / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Scourge (standard build / have to kite and los to win)
    Ele (fire weaver)
    Mes (generic infinite horizon condi builds)
    Thief (condi / admittedly touchy)
    Ranger (glass cannon soulbeat / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Holo (mirror)

    Maybe you can complain if the holo switches their build to hard counter you, but otherwise you just have to:

    1) Play a good build
    2) Play it well

  • Razor.6392Razor.6392 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    Literally every class can beat holo if you outskill them. Holo beats you if you get outskilled or play a bad build.

    FB (sage fb)
    Spellbreaker (standard meta build)
    Rev (meta build / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Scourge (standard build / have to kite and los to win)
    Ele (fire weaver)
    Mes (generic infinite horizon condi builds)
    Thief (condi / admittedly touchy)
    Ranger (glass cannon soulbeat / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Holo (mirror)

    Maybe you can complain if the holo switches their build to hard counter you, but otherwise you just have to:

    1) Play a good build
    2) Play it well

    Isn't it funny how to beat holo you just have to 'outskill' them meanwhile holo just plays normally lol.

    Will there be a day where holo needs to outskill other people aside mirror match scenarios?

    Never said I'm the best, but I believe I'm better than you.

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @Razor.6392 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:
    Literally every class can beat holo if you outskill them. Holo beats you if you get outskilled or play a bad build.

    FB (sage fb)
    Spellbreaker (standard meta build)
    Rev (meta build / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Scourge (standard build / have to kite and los to win)
    Ele (fire weaver)
    Mes (generic infinite horizon condi builds)
    Thief (condi / admittedly touchy)
    Ranger (glass cannon soulbeat / whoever gets the drop wins)
    Holo (mirror)

    Maybe you can complain if the holo switches their build to hard counter you, but otherwise you just have to:

    1) Play a good build
    2) Play it well

    Isn't it funny how to beat holo you just have to 'outskill' them meanwhile holo just plays normally lol.

    Will there be a day where holo needs to outskill other people aside mirror match scenarios?

    I didn't say that. I am 100% confident that each class can hit top 25 in both EU and NA on some build. It might not be your build, but the potential is there. If you think holo is OP, you are ignoring the elephant in the room, which is that other players aren't having the trouble you are. Figure out why first.

    What is valid is:

    • Balance of classes at high tiers of pvp. For example if top 10 was 50% holos or some class had no representation in top 25.

    • Matchup balance of fun. Is fighting a holo fun? How about a staff dd? Fire weaver? Why? This imo is the true balance problem. At the end of the day, the players on strong classes will rise in ranks, leaving you only to face the weaker players of those classes. Therefore the balance isn't affecting you until you push into the highest tiers of pvp.

    Regardless of this though, it is painfully obvious nothing is going to change in the near future. You should get used to the new world order.

  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Isn't it funny how to beat holo you just have to 'outskill' them meanwhile holo just plays normally lol.

    "Isn't it funny ___", implies he made underlying points that agreed with your post.

    He only said the Holo beats bad builds (by playing normally), not that a Holo beats everything by playing normally, which is what you are implying lol.

    He said Firebrand, Scourge, Mirage, Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Weaver, Thief, Herald all often run builds that can fight on par with the meta Holo in 1v1. That's true.

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  • Chaith.8256Chaith.8256 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @mortrialus.3062 said:

    @Chaith.8256 said:

    @Razor.6392 said:
    Isn't it funny how to beat holo you just have to 'outskill' them meanwhile holo just plays normally lol.

    "Isn't it funny ___", implies he made underlying points that agreed with your post.

    He only said the Holo beats bad builds (by playing normally), not that a Holo beats everything by playing normally, which is what you are implying lol.

    He said Firebrand, Scourge, Mirage, Spellbreaker, Soulbeast, Weaver, Thief, Herald all often run builds that can fight on par with the meta Holo in 1v1. That's true.

    The difference is that a decent enemy Firebrand in a team fight dang near almost invalidates an enemy condi mirage with it's access to cleanse, resistance, stability and projectile reflection, hard limiting your capacity to be useful in a massive area of conquest which is the team fighting aspect. And even 1v1 Good weavers will go toe to toe with and beat condition mirage every time 1v1. While Spellbreakers will stay strength for better match ups against anything that isn't condition, defense spellbreaker can stall out a condition mirage and win the node every time. Prot holo also tends to just outright stall out, being impossible to finalize the kill on between Elixir S and Toss Elixir S.

    While Holosmith tends to be great at everything in all tiers of play. Someone said it best that if you look at ranked like Teamfight/Duelist/Roaming/Support something like scourge is 10/3/1/4 and condition mirage is 3/10/6/3 and Holosmith is 9/9/9/6. It's one of the hardest carries in ranked because it's excellent in every single niche you could need. And if you play ranked as scourge you can just feel how often your side noders need you to pick up the slack. If you play mirage you can feel you team fighters needing your to pick up the slack. As holosmith you can just do so . Really well. With excellent results. Even if it isn't absolutely top tier in any one particular niche. Jack of all trades, almost but not quite master of all trades.

    Some numbers aside I agree. Keep in mind if a spec is a 10/10 side node monkey you can literally ignore other roles and be a 10.

    twitch.tv/chaithh
    Forum Lord Chaith

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    Staying away from them helps lol. The spec is incredibly broken and requires I'd argue the least amount of skill to play in the game, makes garbage player feel like gods so its popular lmao. Than again that's gw2 in a nutshell.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Weaver, easily counter any class with their ridiculous sustain

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  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Staying away from them helps lol. The spec is incredibly broken and requires I'd argue the least amount of skill to play in the game, makes garbage player feel like gods so its popular lmao. Than again that's gw2 in a nutshell.

    Just fought one, that on anything that even remotely counters could have been over in 10 seconds, but because I'm trying to learn and get better (staff daredevil not spamming vault and naturally has a hard time against holosmiths in general) the fight pretty much resets every 3 seconds. Like, barely do damage because they're running demolisher, they regen and heal, spam knockdowns and knockbacks, have easy access to water fields and blast finishers, and guess what, they stealth and the fight is basically reset. It's just so broken. And I can't even pinpoint one particular thing that would even it out, because they have everything you could ever want in a competitive game mode. Even half of their skills inherently have conditions, and sure it's not the primary damage, but is it really necessary? Like why does a high damage ranged knockback need a built in fire field? It goes with the theme of the ability, sure, but it's just another annoying thing to deal with ontop of the constant cc and cooldown resets.

    And why does holo forge 5 need such a large radius to begin with? Isn't it about the same radius as an ele meteor shower? And hits 5 targets? I don't even know how many times I was somehow interrupted or knocked down mid vault or during daggerstorm. I don't even know how that was possible, unless it was skill lag or some weird animation frame issue.

    Complain the entire path of fire launch that scourges make caps radioactive, but let's ignore holosmiths entirely. I mean obviously I could have saved my dodges better for this fight, but when every other ability does a third of my health, and my blinds are essentially useless, like, what is the point?

    Then we get even more changes to scrapper, for whatever reason, and holo isn't touched. They want to balance things to even out some of the more dominant builds, but then they leave the one dominant build that the majority of the legend and plat players I see, at least in the pvp lobby arena, running.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    Staying away from them helps lol. The spec is incredibly broken and requires I'd argue the least amount of skill to play in the game, makes garbage player feel like gods so its popular lmao. Than again that's gw2 in a nutshell.

    Just fought one, that on anything that even remotely counters could have been over in 10 seconds, but because I'm trying to learn and get better (staff daredevil not spamming vault and naturally has a hard time against holosmiths in general) the fight pretty much resets every 3 seconds. Like, barely do damage because they're running demolisher, they regen and heal, spam knockdowns and knockbacks, have easy access to water fields and blast finishers, and guess what, they stealth and the fight is basically reset. It's just so broken. And I can't even pinpoint one particular thing that would even it out, because they have everything you could ever want in a competitive game mode. Even half of their skills inherently have conditions, and sure it's not the primary damage, but is it really necessary? Like why does a high damage ranged knockback need a built in fire field? It goes with the theme of the ability, sure, but it's just another annoying thing to deal with ontop of the constant cc and cooldown resets.

    And why does holo forge 5 need such a large radius to begin with? Isn't it about the same radius as an ele meteor shower? And hits 5 targets? I don't even know how many times I was somehow interrupted or knocked down mid vault or during daggerstorm. I don't even know how that was possible, unless it was skill lag or some weird animation frame issue.

    Complain the entire path of fire launch that scourges make caps radioactive, but let's ignore holosmiths entirely. I mean obviously I could have saved my dodges better for this fight, but when every other ability does a third of my health, and my blinds are essentially useless, like, what is the point?

    Then we get even more changes to scrapper, for whatever reason, and holo isn't touched. They want to balance things to even out some of the more dominant builds, but then they leave the one dominant build that the majority of the legend and plat players I see, at least in the pvp lobby arena, running.

    Problem is holo forge has way to low skill cd's and too high of access to too many boons, its healing with blast feilds using turret is way too high and its cc spreads in a huge ridiculously ranged wave not only once but twice resulting in a situation where even if u time a evade or dodge properly u still get knocked down and cc and burst to death. If u have stability access ull just get cc'd after its run out cuz holo's spam the skill as soon as it's off CD cuz they know it's broken and if u disengage the range u with dual pistols lmao and if u somehow are winning they shrink,go stealth or blast field to replenish almost full health. The spec is a perfect example as to why the balance team needs replacing as no competent team would consider a spec like holo anything close to ok. Know I'm gonna get a ban for saying that but could care less lol.

  • ZhouX.8742ZhouX.8742 Member ✭✭✭

    People explain things that can beat holo if you play well, reasonable arguments for counterplay against Holo being presented.

    Thread derails into what needs to be nerfed on Holo so it doesn't perform as good regardless of the above sentence.

    Yikes pvp community

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yea I can explain in forums how to counter play any build, its easy to type out not so much in practice. Also everything has a counter or counters if u look hard enough but that doesn't make holo any less busted. There's a reason engi and scrapper were bottom of most played list yet holo is tops, scrapper was seen alot after its first initial rework cuz was busted too. haven't had a pvp match without 1 or two of them in the match in last few months lol. Its def the fotm class. Players of holo can do what every player does for their class and defend it but it's still clearly a broken spec to anyone not biased for their class lol

  • @ZhouX.8742 said:
    People explain things that can beat holo if you play well, reasonable arguments for counterplay against Holo being presented.

    Thread derails into what needs to be nerfed on Holo so it doesn't perform as good regardless of the above sentence.

    Yikes pvp community

    mb becouse you take a hardcounter to beat holo to have 60% winchance, and holo just choses to fight mid where your class is virtually useless, or can chose to reset back to back to back untill it wins or just outroams you.

  • Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    Yeah bring stability and hope u can use it as often as holo can use the slam which is doubtful. A lot of classes don't have the amount of stability access to counter the amount of cc holo can spam.

  • @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    1. Firebrand has more options on that front with tomes, and Dragon Hunter has one additional Stab. It also has traits that triggers it.

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    No

  • @Ryan.9387 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    No

    No? What access do they have on their "meta" build outside of traited f3?> @Naxos.2503 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    1. Firebrand has more options on that front with tomes, and Dragon Hunter has one additional Stab. It also has traits that triggers it.

    Yes, core has stab through traits. DH has it on passive. And fb has it in plenty of ways. Guardian does not.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    No

    No? What access do they have on their "meta" build outside of traited f3?> @Naxos.2503 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    1. Firebrand has more options on that front with tomes, and Dragon Hunter has one additional Stab. It also has traits that triggers it.

    Yes, core has stab through traits. DH has it on passive. And fb has it in plenty of ways. Guardian does not.

    Alright, fair enough, if you want to catch me on semantics. I meant the whole class plus elite specs.

  • @Naxos.2503 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    No

    No? What access do they have on their "meta" build outside of traited f3?> @Naxos.2503 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    1. Firebrand has more options on that front with tomes, and Dragon Hunter has one additional Stab. It also has traits that triggers it.

    Yes, core has stab through traits. DH has it on passive. And fb has it in plenty of ways. Guardian does not.

    Alright, fair enough, if you want to catch me on semantics. I meant the whole class plus elite specs.

    My bad, seeing as you specified Holo as the elite spec I assumed you strictly meant core guard.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • Ryan.9387Ryan.9387 Member ✭✭✭

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Ryan.9387 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    No

    No? What access do they have on their "meta" build outside of traited f3?> @Naxos.2503 said:

    @AngelLovesFredrik.6741 said:

    @Naxos.2503 said:

    @Vague Memory.2817 said:
    Bring stability. Holo is hard to fight unless you have enough stab. They will chain CC you to death. Most of their strat depends on knocking you on your butt, so they they can then knock you down again, and then line-up a heavy hitting combo before you can do anything. That combined with their stealth can be quite annoying.

    Exactly.

    Again, Holo's not that hard to counter. I need not remind players that some classes have virtually 8 seconds of block/evade, all while retaining their damage.
    Guardian is the most suited class to take down a Holo, whether it be through the afforemented retal and stab, that this particularly class can put out very frequently, or through some high range and trap damage that you can get through Dragon Hunter. Holo is -not- a tough class. It's a glass cannon, if you destabilize a holo's Momentum, they're dead meat. Engineer doesn't have that much to offer, especially now that Scrapper has been completely destroyed.

    Guardian has a grand total of one skill with stab. It has 36 sec cd.

    1. Firebrand has more options on that front with tomes, and Dragon Hunter has one additional Stab. It also has traits that triggers it.

    Yes, core has stab through traits. DH has it on passive. And fb has it in plenty of ways. Guardian does not.

    You never said meta build. And if you mean the response to the post above that build is a DH.

    Regardless, you have stab and stunbreaks on core guardian, but if you really want to kill holos, play a firebrand.

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