Are Raids Gone for Good? Will Strikes Replace Raids? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Are Raids Gone for Good? Will Strikes Replace Raids?

They never mentioned Raids, only that Strikes are lead-ins to Raids. It should be important to note that I don't raid anymore and that when I did, I didn't raid much. But this seems to be a concern for raiders, especially to those that want more than one or two raids a year. So... Are raids gone for good?

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Comments

  • Josiah.2967Josiah.2967 Member ✭✭✭

    With how badly balanced the classes are for raids currently, we are better off with an LFG easier alternative like they will be doing in the upcoming Saga.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konrad Curze.5130 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    More like the excessive reqs imposed by l33t groups

    Most raiders be like "you need to be at least 1m tall to use this ride, so please provide proof that your 2m tall"

    I see nothing wrong with people deciding how they spend their play time? If people want to ride the ride with others who are 2m tall only who is anyone to say they aren't allow to do just that even if you only need to be 1m to ride it?

    This is one of the things strike helps to alleviate since its said to have some kind of grouping system. But I can see specific groups being formed for them and then the above still applies.

  • Naxos.2503Naxos.2503 Member ✭✭✭

    I dont think they will replace raids, since the idea, acknowledged by the presentation was that Strike Mission will fill the gap between T4 fractals and Raids. In my opinion they'll most likely leech some of the experience from the Raid team to get started, but they wont monopolize it.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:
    They never mentioned Raids, only that Strikes are lead-ins to Raids. It should be important to note that I don't raid anymore and that when I did, I didn't raid much. But this seems to be a concern for raiders, especially to those that want more than one or two raids a year. So... Are raids gone for good?

    That’s a good question. Nothing led me to this, but I figured ‘strikes’ would be away for people to start to be introduced to Raids. Kind of as a tutorial.

    Again, nothing directed me there, just a general sense.

    (Probably just pushing my hopes into a feeling.. 🙂)

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    Strike missions are supposed t prepare people for raiding (or hush them away because the content is too hard).
    But since strike missions are related, the ought to unlock raid masteries.

  • True, but instead of leaving it vague, they should have elaborated or reassured the community that they would still be developing raid content. Likewise, fractals were also ignored. During the announcement, there was a misleading notion that the prologue would be free, but failed to mention if the other episodes would be free like they've been. Of course, this information was elaborated and explained in the blog post, but once again failed to mention raids or reassure the community. If any dev could reassure the community now that raids will still be happening during the Saga, that would be great for a lot of people. So the missing information feels... needed. There was also nothing pertaining to if Strikes will unlock raid content, open the door to a new raid, offer raid masteries. It's this sort of information ANet can't really be vague on but have done so for some weird reason. Surprise? Who knows...

    I'm interested in the idea of Strikes, but I'm also hoping they won't be similar Raids in terms of people having to wear a certain build or bring a certain class. That's what they're trying to avoid right? The toxicity in Raids will continue to exist, and maybe even grow when Build Templates releases if PUGs are required to share their build, but that's an entirely different topic that I don't want to touch. That being said, I think ANet is right that the level of difficulty and complexity steers people from raids first before the toxicity mentioned previously.

    I'm getting off track though. If any dev that sees this can just... I don't know... Reassure us, or rather the community, that Raids are still going to be created in the future, that would be great. I don't even care if no date or window is mentioned when the next raid is happening; I just want to know if new raids will be made.

  • It's hard to say, as we know little about Strike Missions. The most likely scenario is that Strike Mission development will be taken out of the resources for open world PvE development, and raids will (gallop/walk/limp) along at whatever pace ANet sets. After all, Strikes look to be for players who are not currently raiding. That's the open PvE audience, for the most part.

    Those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it. -- Santayana

  • Pifil.5193Pifil.5193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's notable that they didn't mention raids or fractals in their plans, it's possible that strikes will be it for the foreseeable future. It's also notable that back in April they said:

    We are taking the opportunity now to reorganize ourselves into four fully staffed content teams with additional teams dedicated to supporting the core game like Skills and Balance, Rewards, WvW, and sPvP.

    No mention of a raid or fractal team. In that post they talked about putting the final polish on the raid wing that was in development but there was no mention of raids or fractals in their future plans either back then or in the recent announcement.

    It's possible that they just consider raids and fractals to be an obvious part of their LS plans and didn't think it necessary to mention them but it's doubtful. I doubt they will tell you one way or the other though.

  • I hope so. Maybe strike missions will actually allow you to play your favoured class and specs instead of a small handful of actual viable ones.

  • Raids should stay - there will always be players who want really challenging group content which at the moment is raids which asks the most you can get out of your class and I like that idea and it is very rewarding to finish raids

    Strike missions is also a great idea implemented by ANET for players who don't or can't get into raiding but want that similar experience

    I'd say depending on the success of strike missions, ANET will most likely work off the statistics and work on which ever is successful

    Hopefully raids are not dumped completely

  • @Konrad Curze.5130 said:
    More like the excessive reqs imposed by l33t groups

    Most raiders be like "you need to be at least 1m tall to use this ride, so please provide proof that your 2m tall"

    The fault here lies with ArenaNet, not making Li's, LD's and KP, a currency that you Cannot link.
    there's never been a game, that had difficult content, with things you can show off to prove you know what you're doing, that didn't have people asking for that proof.

    Don't blame raiders for the stupid design choices of the person who decided these things should be something you can ping and show off.

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Madja.1369 said:
    I hope so. Maybe strike missions will actually allow you to play your favoured class and specs instead of a small handful of actual viable ones.

    Wouldn't be so sure.

  • Zaklex.6308Zaklex.6308 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Strider Pj.2193 said:

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:
    They never mentioned Raids, only that Strikes are lead-ins to Raids. It should be important to note that I don't raid anymore and that when I did, I didn't raid much. But this seems to be a concern for raiders, especially to those that want more than one or two raids a year. So... Are raids gone for good?

    That’s a good question. Nothing led me to this, but I figured ‘strikes’ would be away for people to start to be introduced to Raids. Kind of as a tutorial.

    Again, nothing directed me there, just a general sense.

    (Probably just pushing my hopes into a feeling.. 🙂)

    No, you're correct, that's basically what they said...Strikes are to get people used to doing bosses like you would find in a Raid, only in the Open World and without all the other parts of a Raid.

    Yes...no...maybe...what do you want, can't you see I'm busy saving the world...AGAIN!

  • Neutra.6857Neutra.6857 Member ✭✭✭

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Madja.1369 said:
    I hope so. Maybe strike missions will actually allow you to play your favoured class and specs instead of a small handful of actual viable ones.

    Wouldn't be so sure.

    Funny most of the raids I have been in (guild raids yes) have not had only few viable classes. The only necessity was to have sufficient dps if you are dps (no dooing less damage then the healer), sufficient heals, or a tank that knows what they are doing. I have worked with chrono tanks, druid tanks, guardian tanks, warrior tanks, etc. I have worked with ele healers, druid healers, guardian healers, necro "healers ." I have worked with just about every dps under the sun including having condi in non-condi fights. These where all able to finish a boss.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 3, 2019

    @Tiviana.2650 said:
    That is the worst idea i have ever seen on these forums.

    You're welcome. ;)

    Dump raids and fracs, what about the people that dont wvw should they dump that too for them?

    There are enough of those already while a game mode like WvW hasn't had anything truly fresh brought to it in years (a mount doesn't make up for a lack of new, cycling maps or new directives or anything else that would breathe fresh air into that mode). And the main part of GW is and has always been story and exploration, which is why the more content in that department the better. So, while the game might lose a small part of its community that would walk away enraged, it would also satisfy others and even bring in some new people I am sure. There is an upside to everything.

    THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT OF THIS GAME YOU START PICKING OFF GAME MODES.

    There will be nothing left of this game if you stop neglecting game modes. There need to be priorities set. That's just my opinion, of course.

    Im going to say also that, i dont know how people can play a game day in and day out that has such limited things to do.

    Those game modes wouldn't go away, they would just not be updated anymore (or for a while). The other modes would profit from it for sure.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Tiviana.2650 said:
    That is the worst idea i have ever seen on these forums.

    You're welcome. ;)

    Dump raids and fracs, what about the people that dont wvw should they dump that too for them?

    There are enough of those already while a game mode like WvW hasn't had anything truly fresh brought to it in years (a mount doesn't make up for a lack of new, cycling maps or new directives or anything else that would breathe fresh air into that mode). And the main part of GW is and has always been story and exploration, which is why the more content in that department the better. So, while the game might lose a small part of its community that would walk away enraged, it would also satisfy others and even bring in some new people I am sure. There is an upside to everything.

    THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT OF THIS GAME YOU START PICKING OFF GAME MODES.

    There will be nothing left of this game if you stop neglecting game modes. There need to be priorities set. That's just my opinion, of course.

    Im going to say also that, i dont know how people can play a game day in and day out that has such limited things to do.

    Those game modes wouldn't go away, they would just not be updated anymore (or for a while). The other modes would profit from it for sure.

    Good lord, you do realize you are going to lose a big part of the players doing this right? How can you be this naive , cherry picking game modes is the dumbest thing a game company can do. You will cut off your nose to spite your face and lose in the end.

  • DirtyDan.4759DirtyDan.4759 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Strike missions are encounters that are designed to be beaten by 10 open world players with random gear and are not experienced in combat (we are talking about 3k dps tops). There is no way this will be any form of introduction to raids if there is no challenge mode.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:
    So... Are raids gone for good?

    I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

    Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

    If there is anything that gets all of the devs attention, it is living story. We don't need any more focus on that. Look how many open world PvE maps were released since PoF release. Look how many Raid and Fractal maps were created. Look how many PvP maps were created. Look how many WvW maps were created. Living story is leaving them in the dust. You add up all those maps together and they still won't equal the amount of living story maps released. Should they focus more on WvW? Yes. Story? Give me a break.

  • Xstein.2187Xstein.2187 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    If more people who were less toxic joined Raids, it wouldn't be as much looked down upon as a toxic community :3

    p.s. originally I meant this as a joke. However, it's unfortunately partially true. I was once in a raid group that I wouldn't consider toxic. I think anyone can as long as you put in the work to find the people willing to do it that have the same mind set. No one is forcing you to play with person X.

  • Rodrick.1942Rodrick.1942 Member ✭✭✭

    You guys might think about a possibility : that they said w7 is their last wing IS TRUE and raid project is over(at least just move to maintain mode).

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tiviana.2650 said:

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Tiviana.2650 said:
    That is the worst idea i have ever seen on these forums.

    You're welcome. ;)

    Dump raids and fracs, what about the people that dont wvw should they dump that too for them?

    There are enough of those already while a game mode like WvW hasn't had anything truly fresh brought to it in years (a mount doesn't make up for a lack of new, cycling maps or new directives or anything else that would breathe fresh air into that mode). And the main part of GW is and has always been story and exploration, which is why the more content in that department the better. So, while the game might lose a small part of its community that would walk away enraged, it would also satisfy others and even bring in some new people I am sure. There is an upside to everything.

    THERE WILL BE NOTHING LEFT OF THIS GAME YOU START PICKING OFF GAME MODES.

    There will be nothing left of this game if you stop neglecting game modes. There need to be priorities set. That's just my opinion, of course.

    Im going to say also that, i dont know how people can play a game day in and day out that has such limited things to do.

    Those game modes wouldn't go away, they would just not be updated anymore (or for a while). The other modes would profit from it for sure.

    Good lord, you do realize you are going to lose a big part of the players doing this right? How can you be this naive , cherry picking game modes is the dumbest thing a game company can do. You will cut off your nose to spite your face and lose in the end.

    More-so even picking the wrong game mode to focus on. No matter how much people don't want to believe it or accept it, end-game can't be focused around PvE. It wouldn't mean PvE would lost content, more-so PvE wouldn't be receiving as many updates as it is.

    As an example here, there are what, about 18-19 LS maps that have been released? Then there is Desert Borderlands in WvW, which for the most part is not well received by the WvW community. Many players and entire servers avoid the map. In spite of this, it still sees more player action than all the LS maps even despite the WvW being considerably smaller than the PvE population.

    This then begs the question "Where are all the PvE players going"? Well it seems to me that the majority of these players are either doing their dailies and logging off, or doing a meta-train and logging off. This isn't entirely sustainable as one can only stockpile gold and resources so much before growing bored with nothing to use them on.

    Even raids aren't sustainable. They never should have existed in the first place, and they're the very reason the balance got thrown completely out of whack in the game. The raid community is extremely small, and once people learn the boss mechanics they can basically do the bosses in their sleep. The one thing Gw2 has a leg up on everyone else is their combat system, and it's basically frittered away when the focus on it goes into pre-determined PvE mechanic encounters.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group.

    Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)
    Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

    Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group.

    Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)
    Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

    Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

    what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

    See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

    raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

    Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @MisterDapper.5984 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

    Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

    Im not claiming they're toxic for it. I can understand the need to get it done as smoothly as possible. My guild was like this for early day CoF runs. 4 minutes a run for 2g per run using double port mesmers.

    It would be nice if Anet added tools to make it easier to enjoy raids is all im saying really.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • DoRi Silvia.4159DoRi Silvia.4159 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group.

    Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)
    Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

    Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

    what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

    See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

    raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

    This is what I think

    Because in raids in GW2 if you don't know what you are doing you will die and possibly wipe out the whole group and it can be very frustrating
    Not many if any 'pug' groups are willing to go through all the details and mechanics through the raid with you and teach you as there is quite a lot of different mechanics

    Raids in other games ( I will use ffxiv for example as this is a game i play often) usually have a much more forgiving mechanic , easy to avoid wiping etc
    Raids in GW2 is almost like the hard mode in ffxiv , some boss mechanics will wipe your group if you have not done enough DPS in a certain amount of time etc so it requires players to act quickly
    I also think that raids in GW2 was the answer from ANET for the elite players in GW2 that wanted very challenging PvE content

    While I was frustrated that I could not just jump into the raids when ever I would like to , I can also understand that a group of 10 people would not like to spend their time being patient with someone new who will most likely drag the team down wiping/getting downed/death and in a situation where people cant come to res you and thus losing 1 dps which makes a huge difference and wiping out the whole group

    If you want to get into raids I strongly suggest getting into these groups as training groups are usually very non-toxic and everyone there normally is there to learn like you and I

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @DoRi Silvia.4159 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group.

    Best thing to do is get into the raid discord group or join a raid training guild (which is what ive done)
    Watched a video on the bosses we were going to fight prior to fight, learnt my rotation and it was smooth sailing

    Definitely doable just need to find the right group and time

    what is this training stuff though? why cant I just jump into a raid and follow, watch and learn as I go?

    See I watched videos, made META builds and that but no one wants a first timer and the community says Ive got to "train" first like im an athlete going up against Usain Bolt or what ever.

    raids in other games have a match maker so the community cant exclude players from content, why dont we have one yet?

    This is what I think

    Because in raids in GW2 if you don't know what you are doing you will die and possibly wipe out the whole group and it can be very frustrating
    Not many if any 'pug' groups are willing to go through all the details and mechanics through the raid with you and teach you as there is quite a lot of different mechanics

    Raids in other games ( I will use ffxiv for example as this is a game i play often) usually have a much more forgiving mechanic , easy to avoid wiping etc
    Raids in GW2 is almost like the hard mode in ffxiv , some boss mechanics will wipe your group if you have not done enough DPS in a certain amount of time etc so it requires players to act quickly
    I also think that raids in GW2 was the answer from ANET for the elite players in GW2 that wanted very challenging PvE content

    While I was frustrated that I cannot just jump into the raids when ever I would like to , I can also understand that a group of 10 people would not like to spend their time being patient with someone new who will most likely drag the team down wiping/getting downed/death and in a situation where people cant come to res you and thus losing 1 dps which makes a huge difference and wiping out the whole group

    If you want to get into raids I strongly suggest getting into these groups as training groups are usually very non-toxic and everyone there normally is there to learn like you and I

    Well that's fair enough, other raid games that Ive played have this issue too.
    you can get through an entire raid only to fail at the end because 1 person wasnt equipped well enough (me on my first time) but I learnt from it, adjusted my builds and tackled it a few more times before being able to solo it before too long.

    if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @MisterDapper.5984 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:

    @Anhellbro.7210 said:

    @Zacchary.6183 said:
    If they could get rid of the toxicity in Raids, more people would play raids. Same thing with PvP.

    you play badly> you do not learn> other dislike this > others are toxic and you are prince?

    uhm... Ive been trying to raid since they were released.

    I have all characters and all gear needed but no one wants a first timer.
    The one time I got in a group, I wasnt taken because I havent done training yet?

    raid community is a tight nit group and not everyone is allowed to experience it unlike pvp.

    Toxicity isn't the core of the problem. It's the way Anet designs this game and refuses to give support to raids. There used to be numerous training raids, but now years later there's much fewer. Moreover tutorial in this game does nothing to teach players how to play the game. Breakbars don't even exist until mostly end game content. If the first boss you faced in tutorial had one it would be easier to adjust from pressing 1 to actually using the combat system. Also what's the incentive to teach players how to kill VG when there's only 6 blues for killing the boss again? People want to get their clears for the week and move on. Unlike dungeons there's no dungeon frequenter or any other way to add replayability. It's even worse for CM raids. Since once you complete a CM you can't do it again.

    Im not claiming they're toxic for it. I can understand the need to get it done as smoothly as possible. My guild was like this for early day CoF runs. 4 minutes a run for 2g per run using double port mesmers.

    It would be nice if Anet added tools to make it easier to enjoy raids is all im saying really

    I should have responded to an earlier post. I meant to address the post as a whole. My bad

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

    You can still have that experience but you need to find 9 other firsttimers first. Mosr raid wings are years old and most people dont want to explain and wipe before every boss on a weekly basis. Thats why lfg groups want experienced people. The lfg in game is not a good way to start raiding. joining a guild / discord is way better for that.
    I really hope that the strikes have decent g/h ratio and are farmable so they are not dead on day one. Its still fun if its on at least freezies level but a cm with maybe 5player limit would be really nice aswell.

  • @Rodrick.1942 said:
    You guys might think about a possibility : that they said w7 is their last wing IS TRUE and raid project is over(at least just move to maintain mode).

    If they said that, where is it mentioned? I don't remember reading it, but if you could provide a link it would be extremely helpful

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:
    So... Are raids gone for good?

    I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

    Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

    To be fair they said that if raids didn't exist the story of Saul would not have been tackled.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Ashantara.8731 said:

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:
    So... Are raids gone for good?

    I sure hope so. There are game modes that have to go so that others can get more resources dedicated to them. They dumped Dungeons a long time ago (which was a shame at the time), now it's time to dump Fractals and Raids, IMO. Let those people work on PvE/story, WvW and QoL updates instead. That way we will get more frequent updates in those departments.

    Also, let's be honest: some great story ideas used for raids could have been implemented elsewhere, because that game mode merely consists of challenging fights, story is wasted there. I would have loved to learn about Saul D'Alessio's fate in PvE story mode, or enter the realm of the djinn to explore and quest, etc.

    To be fair they said that if raids didn't exist the story of Saul would not have been tackled.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Neo Mortem.3627 said:

    @Rodrick.1942 said:
    You guys might think about a possibility : that they said w7 is their last wing IS TRUE and raid project is over(at least just move to maintain mode).

    If they said that, where is it mentioned? I don't remember reading it, but if you could provide a link it would be extremely helpful

    Yea I dont remember seeing that statement either so think @Rodrick.1942 is just trying to rile up the raid community

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

    You can still have that experience but you need to find 9 other firsttimers first. Mosr raid wings are years old and most people dont want to explain and wipe before every boss on a weekly basis. Thats why lfg groups want experienced people. The lfg in game is not a good way to start raiding. joining a guild / discord is way better for that.
    I really hope that the strikes have decent g/h ratio and are farmable so they are not dead on day one. Its still fun if its on at least freezies level but a cm with maybe 5player limit would be really nice aswell.

    yea Ive tried doing that but thats ok, plenty of other PvE games with easily accessible content for me to enjoy.

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

  • Sigmoid.7082Sigmoid.7082 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Neutra.6857 said:

    @Sigmoid.7082 said:

    @Madja.1369 said:
    I hope so. Maybe strike missions will actually allow you to play your favoured class and specs instead of a small handful of actual viable ones.

    Wouldn't be so sure.

    Funny most of the raids I have been in (guild raids yes) have not had only few viable classes. The only necessity was to have sufficient dps if you are dps (no dooing less damage then the healer), sufficient heals, or a tank that knows what they are doing. I have worked with chrono tanks, druid tanks, guardian tanks, warrior tanks, etc. I have worked with ele healers, druid healers, guardian healers, necro "healers ." I have worked with just about every dps under the sun including having condi in non-condi fights. These where all able to finish a boss.

    That's not the point since you can finish raid with just about anything yet people still feel excluded. Strikes will develop a meta that people will want to play with, just like fractals and raids, and people will ask for it.

  • @Josiah.2967 said:
    With how badly balanced the classes are for raids currently, we are better off with an LFG easier alternative like they will be doing in the upcoming Saga.

    Balance is better then ever. I guess you dont remember when there wasonly 1 dps option (tempest) because it was over 10k ahead in dps. Before pof there was only one coposition with all classes set.

  • No I don't think raids are gone. I just think that they're adding something for people to practice more difficult mechanics they would otherwise see in the open world.

    From another perspective, why would they add only entry level content to raids and then completely stop adding raids afterwards? Let's not go too far here.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Palador.2170Palador.2170 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Personally, I do hope raids are done for good. I don't like raiding.

    Reasonably, I hope they're on pause. ANet can put out strike missions and try various fight encounters to see what non-raiders do with them. Lessons learned can be implemented when raid teams pick back up later, and hopefully raids that appeal to a wider range of players will be the result.

    Lip synching is just mime karaoke.

  • @sephiroth.4217 said:
    if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

    That aspect of failure and learning as you go is what training raids essentially are though, just with a couple of players who know what they're doing to help people figure out mechanics. The term "training" is just what has fallen into common usage, for lack of a better term. Really what they are are just raid squads where the kill is not expected within a few pulls. An experienced group would expect to only take a few pulls max to get a kill, which means you don't get many chances to see different mechanics before the boss dies and the group moves on. Joining a group with 9 highly experienced players just means that you'll most likely get the kill lying on your back for most of the run, which is not what you say you're looking for.

  • This holds true for all of wings 1-4. Naturally they will be the ones people complete more as well since it has legendary armor as a reward. A lot of the reason you don't see high participation for pof is there's simply no reason to run pof. Ring isn't nearly as good as an entire set of armor. So why bother with the harder wings?

    Either way lets say you lose 10% of the playerbase. Is that acceptable for you when the playerbase is already at an all time low? If so, then no amount of discussion is going to change anyones mind as we are going to fundamentally disagree about what is healthy for the game.

  • sephiroth.4217sephiroth.4217 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Cameron.6450 said:

    @sephiroth.4217 said:
    if its required by the community to give up time for special training instead of learning on the fly, I'd rather miss out. Sometimes the fun for me involves failure and learning so I can earn myself a sense of accomplishment.

    That aspect of failure and learning as you go is what training raids essentially are though, just with a couple of players who know what they're doing to help people figure out mechanics. The term "training" is just what has fallen into common usage, for lack of a better term. Really what they are are just raid squads where the kill is not expected within a few pulls. An experienced group would expect to only take a few pulls max to get a kill, which means you don't get many chances to see different mechanics before the boss dies and the group moves on. Joining a group with 9 highly experienced players just means that you'll most likely get the kill lying on your back for most of the run, which is not what you say you're looking for.

    ok so "training" is basically just winging it and Learning on the go with a guide?

    I don't mind lying on my back, its apart of learning.

    right... Thanks ☺

    Not to brag, but I put together a puzzle in 4 days and the box said 2-4 years.
    Please allow team queue with rewards again at our own discretion.
    06210311 251521 121512

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