All Vabbians are heterosexual now? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

All Vabbians are heterosexual now?

I know this is a minor detail, but recently I've been on a map completion spree and have been doing the Vabbi hearts on a bunch of characters. I remember that in the past, using the affinity analyzer at the "Be the life of the party" heart in Seborhin had an equal chance of prompting npcs to state they were looking for a same- or different-gender partner, but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners. I know it's just a silly detail in a random heart, but I was wondering what the reason for this change was - as a Gay(tm) myself it was just kinda nice to have those interactions not be heteronormative, and I'm sad to see it changed for seemingly no reason.

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  • @Hoover.6394 said:

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I'm not heterosexual either but I don't really see why this is a big deal. They have tonnes of more important things in the game to fix than the gay/straight ratio of characters.

    It feels really... shallow, to me, to care so much about something so unimportant.

    If it was originally designed like this then well maybe it’s not that big a deal, but if they spent time to changed it to be hetero only then that’s a bad move...

    Only way to know for sure is to check out and compare game code.

    Tarnished Coast, North America.
    ♀️ Fashion Wars Lover!

  • @AgentMoore.9453 said:
    Ironically, in this same area, you can overhear what sounds like a man and woman flirting with each other in the garden. One suggests a walk and the other says they work hard enough lifting their wine. Turn the corner and you'll see it's a female NPC and another female NPC with a male's voice.

    Interpret that how you will, but I imagine the renown heart and this NPC interaction are both just products of bugs or RNG rather than any purposeful effort to support or reject representation.

    Agree. Probably just flukes.

    Tarnished Coast, North America.
    ♀️ Fashion Wars Lover!

  • Einlanzer.1627Einlanzer.1627 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I'm not heterosexual either but I don't really see why this is a big deal. They have tonnes of more important things in the game to fix than the gay/straight ratio of characters.

    It feels really... shallow, to me, to care so much about something so unimportant.

    For example: as a Lesbian I'd LOVE to see more sexy lady armour, but it's not really that important, either.

    I'd rather they fix the quest and gameplay bugs the have that actually effect the game performance.

    So, my thing is that if they had all been that way to begin with it wouldn't have been an issue, but to change it seems really strange. There could be any number of explanations, though.

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I'm not heterosexual either but I don't really see why this is a big deal. They have tonnes of more important things in the game to fix than the gay/straight ratio of characters.

    It feels really... shallow, to me, to care so much about something so unimportant.

    For example: as a Lesbian I'd LOVE to see more sexy lady armour, but it's not really that important, either.

    I'd rather they fix the quest and gameplay bugs the have that actually effect the game performance.

    And to further this specific point, I can agree that displaying homosexuality in a video game is pretty pointless and does little for the story, but the idea that a video game creates that kind of exposure and dares to be bold enough to provide that representation is something I've always appreciated from this developer. Most wouldn't. And even still, with the predetermined notion that the majority of gamers are heterosexual males, I imagine that's the majority of the reason as to why we've seen prominently lesbian couples during the franchise. It's safer and is more appeasing to heterosexual males.

    It's really not that big of an issue either way though, at least in this franchise, because ironically the only times we've been really overwhelmed or bombarded with in-game relationship drama is with the aforementioned lesbian couples, Caithe/Faolin, Majory/Kas. Aside from whatever Logan and Jenna had, I can't even really recall any relationships that gained any spotlight.

    It's so amusing to me that the majority of the gamer population is heterosexual males, yet 90% of them play scantily clad female characters with bright colored frilly dresses, bunny ears, or skirts that may as well not exist. I can understand the scantily clad, but some of them genuinely go all out playing dress-up with their female characters. Maybe they all enjoyed barbies as kids but toxic masculinity told them they needed the anonymity of the internet.

  • Ok wow a lot of comments in a short time lol!

    Anyway I'd estimate my sample size at around 20 pairings? I only do the pairings to complete the heart usually and each pairing is 15%, so that's like 7 pairings per character, and it's been at least 3 characters since I got any same gender pairings. Given that as far as I could tell, it was a 50/50 split before, it seems very unlikely that this is just rng at this point.

    And yes, as I said, it's a minor, silly detail. Honestly, I wouldn't even really care if it had always been like this, as it's not a very significant heart at all. I was only disappointed to notice this because it was a change from before and serves no purpose at all except to put in a little more heteronormativity. I mostly just wonder WHY they would bother to make a change like this - it seems kinda annoying for them to "fix" a bug where characters could be gay, if in fact that's what happened. It's just weird!

  • Ashen.2907Ashen.2907 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    Ok wow a lot of comments in a short time lol!

    Anyway I'd estimate my sample size at around 20 pairings? I only do the pairings to complete the heart usually and each pairing is 15%, so that's like 7 pairings per character, and it's been at least 3 characters since I got any same gender pairings. Given that as far as I could tell, it was a 50/50 split before, it seems very unlikely that this is just rng at this point.

    And yes, as I said, it's a minor, silly detail. Honestly, I wouldn't even really care if it had always been like this, as it's not a very significant heart at all. I was only disappointed to notice this because it was a change from before and serves no purpose at all except to put in a little more heteronormativity. I mostly just wonder WHY they would bother to make a change like this - it seems kinda annoying for them to "fix" a bug where characters could be gay, if in fact that's what happened. It's just weird!

    That sample size is nowhere near sufficient to make a determination.

  • What makes you think they 'fixed a bug', rather than this being a bug? Or just a case of bad RNG?
    Both bugs and RNG are oft-found in-game.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I am lost. What are you all referring to? Have link?

  • anninke.7469anninke.7469 Member ✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:

    To be fair, I feel like they've always had a very prominent lesbian representation. Caithe, Faolin, Majory, Kas. It's always felt a little strange to me that there were so many prominent lesbian couples in the game, and no gay male couples. Aside from that one core Sylvari that everyone references and I can't even remember, or the one debatably gay Norn that had his "partner" eaten by a vinetooth.

    I keep secretly hoping Lord Faren will come out one of these days, but I feel like he's probably pan and would do anything, anyone, at anytime. He's probably had a few Choya by now. And those things have some gnarly teeth.

    I'm not really sure how non-gender anatomically-ambiguous interspecies relationships work in Tyria, but I bet a Faren and Canach relationship would be a lot more entertaining than pretty much anything with Majory and Kas. (Assuming they are even still alive at this point and haven't just vanished into the abyss with Zolja. Not that I'm one of the ones that even really cares about Zolja. lulz)

    As for gay couples - there's probably one more I know about; one of the Awakened you try to cheer up in Jahai Bluffs speaks about a male beloved one and is a male himself (but I'm not really sure about this, maybe it's just a standard Awakened model). Also, I think I noticed one or two more from NPC chatter here and there, but can't say for sure as it might have just be me jumping to conclusions. However, females sure are A LOT more noticeable, although not necessarily more frequent.

    I fully agree that Farens field of interest is probably pretty wide and universal.

    I also agree that Faren and Canach would make an entertaining couple BUT I think Canach deserves better. Sorry, Faren... :D

    And (I just can't resist...) kitten hell YES for more sexy male armor. Not that I don't like my bunch of pretty ladies, but half my crew are guys with very unsatisfactory clothing options.

    Do not fear difficulty. Hard ground makes sore feet.
    Act with wisdom and axe.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Dragon Priestess.9760 said:
    I'm not heterosexual either but I don't really see why this is a big deal. They have tonnes of more important things in the game to fix than the gay/straight ratio of characters.

    It feels really... shallow, to me, to care so much about something so unimportant.

    For example: as a Lesbian I'd LOVE to see more sexy lady armour, but it's not really that important, either.

    I'd rather they fix the quest and gameplay bugs the have that actually effect the game performance.

    This.. sense can prevail I guess sometimes.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • @Ashen.2907 said:

    @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    Ok wow a lot of comments in a short time lol!

    Anyway I'd estimate my sample size at around 20 pairings? I only do the pairings to complete the heart usually and each pairing is 15%, so that's like 7 pairings per character, and it's been at least 3 characters since I got any same gender pairings. Given that as far as I could tell, it was a 50/50 split before, it seems very unlikely that this is just rng at this point.

    And yes, as I said, it's a minor, silly detail. Honestly, I wouldn't even really care if it had always been like this, as it's not a very significant heart at all. I was only disappointed to notice this because it was a change from before and serves no purpose at all except to put in a little more heteronormativity. I mostly just wonder WHY they would bother to make a change like this - it seems kinda annoying for them to "fix" a bug where characters could be gay, if in fact that's what happened. It's just weird!

    That sample size is nowhere near sufficient to make a determination.

    Actually, that sample size is more than adequate to infer that the probability of getting a homosexual pairing is less than 50% (though not to infer that it's actually 0). If you do a hypothesis test with the null hypothesis that the probability is 50%, and alternative hypothesis that it's less than 50%, you get a p-value of about 0.00000095 (i.e. 0.5^20; slightly less than one in a million). That's way less than the standard significance levels of either 0.05 or 0.01, so in most fields it would be enough to reject the null hypothesis and conclude that the probability is below 50%. (Admittedly, some fields use lower significance levels.) So on a formal level, the data agree precisely with @Delta Dawn.4970's statement that

    Given that as far as I could tell, it was a 50/50 split before, it seems very unlikely that this is just rng at this point.

    The problem, however, is in the data collection. In order to avoid bias in statistics, one must decide what tests and analysis to do before data collection. In this case, if there are a lot of players completing this renown heart, the chances of one of them getting a run of 20 heterosexual pairings (and consequently posting on the forum about it) could be quite high even if the probability of getting a homosexual pairing is 50%. Without any data about how frequently this heart is done, it's not really possible to say anything precise about that, though.

    (Also, disclaimer: my stats is pretty rusty so it is possible I messed up somewhere.)

  • As someone who visit that place daily because i am a masochist and love doing legendary weapon the PoF way collecting incense, it's there. The whole shebang, male female trans and some angry djinn. It's just the npc is very random and change every day. Male with female voice, female with male voice is also there. It's just another normal day in vabbi.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I started doing that heart almost daily about 2 weeks ago (starting to work on Claw of the Khan-Ur) and one of the things I noticed was that many of the NPCs I was pairing up were same sex couples. And one bisexual - I paired her up with a woman and then she came up as a match for a man as well and said she'd consider both. I didn't know that could happen (I thought once an NPC was matched there were out of the selection) but I thought it was an interesting dialogue.

    I didn't pay enough attention when I was doing it on Monday to see who I was pairing with who, and I didn't do it yesterday but I can confirm that as recently as last Sunday (3 days ago) there were same sex couples in the mix.

    But I suspect there's equal numbers of men and women present and who is paired up is random, so it's possible you could get all same sex couples, or all gay couples, in a run.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "In this town, we call home, everyone hail to the pumpkin song! In this town, don't we love it now? Everyone's waiting for the next surprise!"

  • Dalec.9853Dalec.9853 Member ✭✭✭

    This is GW2 the NPCs are probably non-binary or identify as something else, you're assuming they are male+female couples

    We’re looking forward to getting it into your hands so we can hear your feedback wallet opening and continue to build on drain it - Mike O'Transactions

  • Westenev.5289Westenev.5289 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Huh, that's interesting. All of my pairings (that I can remember) have been heterosexual - but I'll have to check this out xD

    That said, weren't they there in the first place to make babies?

  • @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    I know this is a minor detail, but recently I've been on a map completion spree and have been doing the Vabbi hearts on a bunch of characters. I remember that in the past, using the affinity analyzer at the "Be the life of the party" heart in Seborhin had an equal chance of prompting npcs to state they were looking for a same- or different-gender partner, but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners. I know it's just a silly detail in a random heart, but I was wondering what the reason for this change was - as a Gay(tm) myself it was just kinda nice to have those interactions not be heteronormative, and I'm sad to see it changed for seemingly no reason.

    They don't ask for anyone of any gender. The first npc just complains about being lonely. Then you use the affinity analyzer to find a second npc and that's pure RNG. Last time I did this about 1 or 2 weeks ago I got a few same sex pairs.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    i doubt it's been purposedly changed, i'd try for a few more days and see what happens. I'll do it a few times myself too :)
    if it was indeed changed, and it isn't a bug, really really bad move from Anet.

  • @Tanith.5264 said:
    We have bigger things to concern ourselves about. Such as...why are the choya so angry? :)

    Probably because skritt are so quick to try to kill them. I know I'd be angry.

  • @Hoover.6394 said:
    Support this!
    Also found the artist and designers of the game seems afraid of making sexy outfit and armor for male characters, always covered so well compare to the female outfits lol

    Sadly this is common practice in the gaming industry. And Anet people were never the ones to break the mold so it is what it is.
    The Starbound outfit, with a realistic bulge (or even an "existing" bulge would be enough) and with no stary effect, just the skin... ;) now that's quality content :D

    As for the Heart from OP.
    I've mapped PoF a lot recently, getting all my main characters to 404 skill points (out of boredom) and I think I noticed something. There are still gay npcs, but it's rarer then before and they seem to be all the way on the outer limits of the Heart zone. Kind of in the back of the bus if you get what I mean. I think Anet changed it like this at some point for whatever reason. It seems like the kind of thing Anet does so it's reasonable.
    So yeah, gay npcs still exist there, but I'm pretty sure Anet pushed them to the edges and probably lowered the probability of it happening.

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EmmetOtter.8542 said:

    @Delta Dawn.4970 said:
    I know this is a minor detail, but recently I've been on a map completion spree and have been doing the Vabbi hearts on a bunch of characters. I remember that in the past, using the affinity analyzer at the "Be the life of the party" heart in Seborhin had an equal chance of prompting npcs to state they were looking for a same- or different-gender partner, but the last three times I've done it this month I noticed that none of the npcs asked for same-gender partners. I know it's just a silly detail in a random heart, but I was wondering what the reason for this change was - as a Gay(tm) myself it was just kinda nice to have those interactions not be heteronormative, and I'm sad to see it changed for seemingly no reason.

    They don't ask for anyone of any gender. The first npc just complains about being lonely. Then you use the affinity analyzer to find a second npc and that's pure RNG. Last time I did this about 1 or 2 weeks ago I got a few same sex pairs.

    The initial dialogue is a complaint about being lonely, then there's an option to ask them what kind of person they're looking for, at which point they'll say something like "I'm looking for a woman who can make me laugh!" or "I want a man who will encourage me to try new things."

    I can't remember now if the gender of the person you match them with always matches the one they say they want. But I'm going to do the heart again tonight for 1 more funerary incense so I can check that as well.

    Danielle Aurorel - Desolation EU. Mini Collector.

    "In this town, we call home, everyone hail to the pumpkin song! In this town, don't we love it now? Everyone's waiting for the next surprise!"

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    @Tyler.4937 said:
    I'm going to get hell rained down on me, but this really doesn't seem like a big deal or even a minor deal. A few people have posted that they still get this event (or whatever it is?). I think before accusing the devs or even people on the forums of being some kind of -phobic or -ist, maybe do research and compile statistics for how often this event or whatever happens? And then compare it to the stats from before you feel the change was made? Or something?

    Also, demonizing people that don't agree with or understand you doesn't help the situation, change them, or make you happier. (Directed at some of the responders on here that have serious attitudes).

    he's just asking for others experience on it, to compare and do research, like you said he should make. I don't see the problem.

  • @coso.9173 said:

    @Tyler.4937 said:
    I'm going to get hell rained down on me, but this really doesn't seem like a big deal or even a minor deal. A few people have posted that they still get this event (or whatever it is?). I think before accusing the devs or even people on the forums of being some kind of -phobic or -ist, maybe do research and compile statistics for how often this event or whatever happens? And then compare it to the stats from before you feel the change was made? Or something?

    Also, demonizing people that don't agree with or understand you doesn't help the situation, change them, or make you happier. (Directed at some of the responders on here that have serious attitudes).

    he's just asking for others experience on it, to compare and do research, like you said he should make. I don't see the problem.

    I'm mores responding to the entirety of this thread. Also, I never said it was a problem.

  • Kallist.5917Kallist.5917 Member ✭✭✭

    I'd guess its not intentional. Its such a minor thing that I cant see someone going out of their way to reprogram the heart, but doing something with another heart? I could see it popping a bug or something.
    Also, no reason for half of you to act like a kitten prick. It was a minor thing that has changed, I've noticed it too and Tyler is just asking if it was intentional or a fluke.

  • Trise.2865Trise.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Random selection is random.

    If we want ANet to step up their game, then we must step up ours.

  • @NanoEliteSixSixSix.8935 said:

    @Tanith.5264 said:
    We have bigger things to concern ourselves about. Such as...why are the choya so angry? :)

    Probably because skritt are so quick to try to kill them. I know I'd be angry.

    They look like delicious watermelon when you cut them up soooooo, maybe the skritt are onto something.

  • Random is random. No bug, just unlucky. Nothing needs to be fixed or "represented more". Aridon does make a point, this is getting out of hand and a bit too much.

    When we let things convey unto us, that is true artistic expression. But when we try to convey ourselves onto things, that is delusion.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    Some people's ignorance and playing down the subject with humorour remarks upsets me, to be honest. It is one thing to say "GW2's hearts don't matter to me", but to be ignorant about a group's representation in this game shows exactly what the problem in RL is regarding this subject. :-1:

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    so it shouldn't matter, but it clearly matters to you because you're complaining about it.
    what's next? people complaining about PoC characters being needlessly celebrated in PoF and LS4? pff
    Anyway back on topic, I'll give it a try myself now and see how it goes. I'll post the results later.
    EDIT: just checked it out and I saw a woman asking for "the sweetest girl" so I think you just had ad luck with it :)
    It was only 1 woman of the 20 something NPCs I talked to tough. I doubt it's a 50/50 chance.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    I am lost. What are you all referring to? Have link?

    There's a heart in The Domain of Vabbi which is most easily done by finding mates using a device.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Be_the_life_of_the_party

    The device is called the affinity analyzer. It finds matches for people who want to find love. You introduce those people you finish the heart. It usually does heterosexual couples but occasionally it didn't. The OP is asking whether it changed after trying about 20. I don't think it likely has, but who knows.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    As for the other responses to mine: You are being represented. You can create all sorts of characters in the game, with all sort of physical and facial features (although there could be more, I agree) and all sort of skin colors. We even have one of the main NPCs being a person with disabilities (although Asura tech is helping her in that regard). I think GW2 is pretty diverse, and it just makes me mad when people attack that diversity or say that they don't care.

  • Menadena.7482Menadena.7482 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AgentMoore.9453 said:
    Ironically, in this same area, you can overhear what sounds like a man and woman flirting with each other in the garden. One suggests a walk and the other says they work hard enough lifting their wine. Turn the corner and you'll see it's a female NPC and another female NPC with a male's voice.

    Interpret that how you will, but I imagine the renown heart and this NPC interaction are both just products of bugs or RNG rather than any purposeful effort to support or reject representation.

    What I was thinking. Which dialogue is used is probably random. If so the most likely thing is a variable got changed without knowing the effect it would have rather than something malicious being the case.

    New to the game? Feel free to give a yell if you need PVE help.

  • coso.9173coso.9173 Member ✭✭✭

    if lgbtq people were accepted as you say, then why complaining each time one appears on media? it happened with kasmeer, it happened with iceman in marvel, it happened with bunker at dc too, it happened with the ending of black sails, it happened with steven universe, it happened with each and everytime there's a lgbtq character on any media. a huge fuss happens and people complain about an agenda, and a thousand other reasons, so don't tell me we're "accepted".
    anyway I've given my cent on this, there's absolutely no point in debating with people that have set up their mind on the topioc a long time ago, nor do I care to change it.

  • FWIW, I was able to get 3 same sex wallflowers today when I did the heart (and one guy they courted was bi!). I did have to run around looking a bit though, and it did feel like less than previously.

    For whoever was looking for more m/m representation, weren't there males in Joko's harem? And I believe the djinn/human pairing in one of the living story maps was a gay couple. But you're right--the representation isn't front and center like it is with Caithe/Faolain and Marjorie/Kas.

    (I will not endorse any Canach/Faren pairing!! Canach obv has the best rapport with Rytlock.)

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