Mike Z on pcgamesn.com: Expansions not ruled out - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Mike Z on pcgamesn.com: Expansions not ruled out

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  • This is basically the re-hashed phrase "It's not off the table." So basically see it as see it in the coming years, or never.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    THANK YOU!!!

    This is literally all I wanted to hear from the live event lol
    I knew season 5 was coming, but I really wanted to know that expansions were not being killed off and the game was going to rely entierly on living world going forward.

    I don't expect Anet to announce expansions when they're not even in the works and they're not ready to move onto one but just knowing that they are open to making more of them for Gw2 is a massive piece of mind that will keep me personally as dedicated a player as I have been for years.

    I like the living world and I enjoy the living world, but I do not believe the living world is capable of sustaining the game indefinitely.
    Expansions are essential to the future of this game imo and that is a belief that isn't going to change, so this confirmation is something i've been wanting to hear for a good while now ^^

    Hmmm what exactly was confirmed, cos I never read any such thing tbh.

    That expansions are still on the table as future content for the game and that Anet is aware that many of us still want expansions for this game and are more than willing to pay for them should they make them.
    That's all ^^ and all I really wanted to hear at the event :)

    Your reading way too much into that.. it was clearly a politicians statement.. neither deny or confirm means nothing.
    It's just a non answer, as others have said already.

    Many said the same thing before the first expansion was announced though. I said I thought they were working on an expansion, Anet said nothing about it, and many many months later, they finally announced it, after people were saying that Anet was ambiguous, or would have said something if that was the case.

    Anet isn't going to reveal this information before it's ready. Here's a possibility. Some people are in favor of making an expansion some aren't and there's an internal conflict, so they aren't going to say anything. We just don't have the information. But this is not the first time the bulk of the forum has said something that turned out to not be true.

    Sometimes it's not often the table means it's not off the table. It could just be a political answer. It could also be a genuine one. How you take it depends on how jaded you are.

    Except ANET have said.. they aren't ... they are committed to LW for the foreseeable future... but of course things can and often do change, but as of right now no expacs is incoming and if they start now it will be at least 2 yrs but likely more as they are already full steam ahead bringing the first SAGA to our screens, which is going to be resource intensive for the 4 teams for the next 12 months at the very least.

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    THANK YOU!!!

    This is literally all I wanted to hear from the live event lol
    I knew season 5 was coming, but I really wanted to know that expansions were not being killed off and the game was going to rely entierly on living world going forward.

    I don't expect Anet to announce expansions when they're not even in the works and they're not ready to move onto one but just knowing that they are open to making more of them for Gw2 is a massive piece of mind that will keep me personally as dedicated a player as I have been for years.

    I like the living world and I enjoy the living world, but I do not believe the living world is capable of sustaining the game indefinitely.
    Expansions are essential to the future of this game imo and that is a belief that isn't going to change, so this confirmation is something i've been wanting to hear for a good while now ^^

    Hmmm what exactly was confirmed, cos I never read any such thing tbh.

    That expansions are still on the table as future content for the game and that Anet is aware that many of us still want expansions for this game and are more than willing to pay for them should they make them.
    That's all ^^ and all I really wanted to hear at the event :)

    Your reading way too much into that.. it was clearly a politicians statement.. neither deny or confirm means nothing.
    It's just a non answer, as others have said already.

    Many said the same thing before the first expansion was announced though. I said I thought they were working on an expansion, Anet said nothing about it, and many many months later, they finally announced it, after people were saying that Anet was ambiguous, or would have said something if that was the case.

    Anet isn't going to reveal this information before it's ready. Here's a possibility. Some people are in favor of making an expansion some aren't and there's an internal conflict, so they aren't going to say anything. We just don't have the information. But this is not the first time the bulk of the forum has said something that turned out to not be true.

    Sometimes it's not often the table means it's not off the table. It could just be a political answer. It could also be a genuine one. How you take it depends on how jaded you are.

    Except ANET have said.. they aren't ... they are committed to LW for the foreseeable future... but of course things can and often do change, but as of right now no expacs is incoming and if they start now it will be at least 2 yrs but likely more as they are already full steam ahead bringing the first SAGA to our screens, which is going to be resource intensive for the 4 teams for the next 12 months at the very least.

    But they've also said the same thing in the past, and we got an expansion. I don't see the difference. They will probably do an expansion of there's enough pressure from either the audience or NcSoft. That's my take on it.

    That pressure is irrelevant if the kind of resources required for an expac are not there no matter what we might want,but sure things can definitely change if NCSoft believe it prudent to open the coffers, but even if they did, how long do you think it is going to be until a return on their outlay can be realised and more immediately do ANET have the internal resource and capabilities to be able to deliver it or will they go back out to the market and raise headcount once more.
    It is not so simple as to saying pressure from us or NCSoft will mean expansion will come.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    But it's just as possible the guy is saying we really don't know what we're doing after Season 5

    Isn't that the worst case scenario? That ArenaNet has no long term plan and no idea what they'll do in the future?

    "It's not off the table" can be interpreted in many ways, one of them being "We'd love to, but we don't know whether it will be possible," for It might be that NCsoft will allow them to increase their human resources again if The Icebrood Saga is doing well. If that happens, they might have the resources for an expansion. But they don't know that at this point in time, so saying anymore than what they have might be unwise. Or they could have other plans, like making sagas the new format for story content. I don't blame them in either case for being unspecific about it at this point.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I think they (Arenanet) simply do not have the resources (or are not given the resources from NCSoft) at this point in time to devote time on making an expansion alongside Living World Saga 5.

    Considering this comment on Reddit, and how those huge spikes in earnings came after expansions, feels a bit short-sighted to not make resource-generating expansions due to a lack of resources.

    While I agree, we need to put these numbers and timeline in perspective. Remember that lay-offs happened and projects were cancelled. Supposedly GW2 unrelated projects. That happens all the time in the industry and one can not blame a developer for working on new IPs or future projects to assure the prosperity of the studio.

    We also know that at some earlier point in time, the developers were not even sure there was going to be anything past Living World Season 4. Hence the epic but also conclusive Season 4 finale.

    I'm sure with the knowledge of hindsight, resources would have been spent differently and very likely on an expansion. Unfortunately they didn't so in a sense now there is some catch-up to be done. If any expansion were to be made or planned or developed or w/e, it would have been started this year (or maybe even now) putting it at least 1 year away (if it's a smaller expansion like say PoF) or 2 years away if it is larger like HoT.

  • The problem is when they want to deliver it with the end of season 5 / next year around this time they need to start with it now!
    A sentence like 'So it’s not like we’re ruling it out' sound like we start with it maybe someday don't fit with that.

  • Infusion.7149Infusion.7149 Member ✭✭✭

    If they do make an expansion I hope they revisit Cantha and bring all the competitiveness that came with it:

    • Alliance Battles (this was 12v12 in GW1)
    • actual GvG (sPvP-like 8v8 with stronghold-like mechanics) , possibly 10-20 depending on map size with spectate mode unlike EOTM map
    • Fort Aspenwood / Jade Quarry competitive mission
    • Heroes Ascent (Hall of Heroes , 8v8) with spectate after match ends

    These game modes had a lot of replay value , more so than say FoW once you had the armor or UW (other than the spider). DoA was more or less for tormented weapons.

    Unranked arena & automated tournament sort of functions as team arena , ranked solo-queue is more or less random arena.

    We already have holiday arenas and automated tournament team arena.

    As far as PvE , Cantha had a massive amount of area whether it is Shing Jea Island , Kaineng (the slums, Undercity, and the palace), Echovald Forest, or the Jade Sea. Race-wise the tengu and naga could be brought back.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Cantha-Thread-Merged/page/2#post1385108
    (the city would probably not return)

    We have reached Elona thus far and the next living story is probably fleshing out some area of the Shiverpeaks. Short of adding in fractal levels that are missing there has to be a (lore-abiding) map area unless it is instanced content.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    THANK YOU!!!

    This is literally all I wanted to hear from the live event lol
    I knew season 5 was coming, but I really wanted to know that expansions were not being killed off and the game was going to rely entierly on living world going forward.

    I don't expect Anet to announce expansions when they're not even in the works and they're not ready to move onto one but just knowing that they are open to making more of them for Gw2 is a massive piece of mind that will keep me personally as dedicated a player as I have been for years.

    I like the living world and I enjoy the living world, but I do not believe the living world is capable of sustaining the game indefinitely.
    Expansions are essential to the future of this game imo and that is a belief that isn't going to change, so this confirmation is something i've been wanting to hear for a good while now ^^

    Hmmm what exactly was confirmed, cos I never read any such thing tbh.

    That expansions are still on the table as future content for the game and that Anet is aware that many of us still want expansions for this game and are more than willing to pay for them should they make them.
    That's all ^^ and all I really wanted to hear at the event :)

    Your reading way too much into that.. it was clearly a politicians statement.. neither deny or confirm means nothing.
    It's just a non answer, as others have said already.

    Many said the same thing before the first expansion was announced though. I said I thought they were working on an expansion, Anet said nothing about it, and many many months later, they finally announced it, after people were saying that Anet was ambiguous, or would have said something if that was the case.

    Anet isn't going to reveal this information before it's ready. Here's a possibility. Some people are in favor of making an expansion some aren't and there's an internal conflict, so they aren't going to say anything. We just don't have the information. But this is not the first time the bulk of the forum has said something that turned out to not be true.

    Sometimes it's not often the table means it's not off the table. It could just be a political answer. It could also be a genuine one. How you take it depends on how jaded you are.

    They announced pof was in development just fine.

    Nothing to do with what I said. They had a long term plan at that time and mentioned POF in an AMA that they were already working on it. Clearly they're not working on an expansion right now. Which doesn't mean an expansion isn't coming. The problem is you don't have enough data points to draw a conclusion. We've had two expansions and one of them was announced just fine. The other wasn't announced through months and months of doubts and demands. So saying Anet is saying this politically an opinion and it's okay to have an opinion. But it's just as possible the guy is saying we really don't know what we're doing after Season 5. That is, we don't know how many people will be playing the game in 2 years. What our income will be. What our situation will be. It's not even like Anet has the final say, since they're owned by NcSoft. In the past, NcSoft has said there'll be an expansion even when Anet said there wouldn't. Given that, why would you say there definitely will or won't be one.

    The further out in the future something is, the harder it is to guarantee. I'd be more suspicious of he said, oh we'll definitely have an expansion at some point.

    I mean Sony announced they were coming out with Everquest Next, and then the SOE sold out to Daybreak Entertainment and the product was scrapped.. Blizzard said they were working on Titan and that project was scrapped. Anet was working on side projects and we know at least two of those were scrapped. Why would anyone make a definitive statement? Why would you take a definitive statement as more honest than someone saying it's a possibility?

    A company the size of ANET absolutely should have some kind of long term plan for itself especially when it has to report into a higher power and eve more so as GW2 is currently the only thing keeping them relevant.
    If they are relying on short term forecasting to carry them then they are already exposed and I would be ever so slightly concerned because that doesn't allow for much creativity and organic growth of the product or the business month to month or year to year, which would likely lead to maintenance mode sooner than we think.
    Are we at that stage.... no I dont think so but we do know it has been a tough year or so for them and the NCSoft portfolio as a whole.
    ANET are in an unenviable situation of having to rely on a single ageing product right now so to some extent I can understand them having to downgrade some things in order to maintain longer term objectives for the business in general. But if that means all we can really expect looking forward now is LW updates I do think it might struggle to keep large chunks of the playerbase suitably entertained for long enough periods of time through the update cycles, but time will tell I guess.

    Those who plan everything always think that way. Those who don't think differently. My experience with projects that left themselves open for more flexibility is pretty extensive. What you're saying doesn't match with my experience. We'll just have to leave it there. You're not going to believe me, and I'm not going to change my mind on this.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    Well a month short 24yrs running my own projects management consultancy across a variety of industry tells me that being overly reliant on short term plans can often lead to a stagnation of growth either in product, business or worse.. both.
    That said, no one is saying ANET cant be flexible, of course they should be, in fact I even said it would be of no surprise they might of had to downgrade some things in order to ensure that longer term objectives can still be met, which is my thought in their move away from expacs over the last few years... they will of already seen the signs in their forecasting, hence maybe these "other projects" had begun materialising to try and move away from being overly reliant on a single ageing product.
    Then again perhaps we forget, ANET are not the only interested party in all this and likely have to bend the knee when seeking to fund any such short, mid or long term plan for the game and the studio in general, made all the more relevant knowing that the whole of NCSofts ageing portfolio is seeing signs of slow down of revenue.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • cptaylor.2670cptaylor.2670 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just take it as a no. Even if they were it would be years away. So there’s not really a point in demanding a yes or no. And I think if they had anything planned beyond quality of life improvements and strike missions in terms of features they would have mentioned something by now. The wvw alliance is probably a year away at least. I would be surprised to see anymore fractals or raids to be honest. Maybe they shifted the few people working on those to strike missions. Though that would seem a bit overkill if they only have one strike mission per episode. Maybe part strike missions and part world bosses? So everything open world. To be fair, strike missions could also be dungeon-esque instead of a queable wambam boss fight and done.

    Though it would be nice if they had spent any of the 5 pages they spent on merchandise in this latest magazine to talk about like... actual rewards and incentive to do these missions. Is this merchandise what they’re relying on to keep afloat or something? They’ve never pushed it this hard, but the fact that they’re pushing it harder than actual in game content concerns me.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:
    But if that means all we can really expect looking forward now is LW updates I do think it might struggle to keep large chunks of the playerbase.

    Hence why I personally feel a lot more at ease with the confirmation that future expansions are still on the table.
    Without that, I'd be just as uncomfortable and worried about the future of the game as you seem to be.

    Having that confirmation that Anet know there is a massive demand for more paid expansion content makes a lot of difference to me, even when there isn't any known plans to produce it atm.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Infusion.7149 said:
    If they do make an expansion I hope they revisit Cantha and bring all the competitiveness that came with it:

    • Alliance Battles (this was 12v12 in GW1)
    • actual GvG (sPvP-like 8v8 with stronghold-like mechanics) , possibly 10-20 depending on map size with spectate mode unlike EOTM map
    • Fort Aspenwood / Jade Quarry competitive mission
    • Heroes Ascent (Hall of Heroes , 8v8) with spectate after match ends

    These game modes had a lot of replay value , more so than say FoW once you had the armor or UW (other than the spider). DoA was more or less for tormented weapons.

    Unranked arena & automated tournament sort of functions as team arena , ranked solo-queue is more or less random arena.

    We already have holiday arenas and automated tournament team arena.

    As far as PvE , Cantha had a massive amount of area whether it is Shing Jea Island , Kaineng (the slums, Undercity, and the palace), Echovald Forest, or the Jade Sea. Race-wise the tengu and naga could be brought back.

    https://forum-en.gw2archive.eu/forum/game/gw2/The-Cantha-Thread-Merged/page/2#post1385108
    (the city would probably not return)

    We have reached Elona thus far and the next living story is probably fleshing out some area of the Shiverpeaks. Short of adding in fractal levels that are missing there has to be a (lore-abiding) map area unless it is instanced content.

    This. This. A thousand times this. Cantha can offer SO much. They can change the buildings - the Festival of the four winds looks like how some areas of cantha could now look for starters and that's perfectly fine because it gets published!
    Cantha is the Empire of the Dragon - how a game based solely on dragons can't think to go back is beyond me. The whole area was full of dragons on the jade sea and the actually story was based on Shiro, not a dragon. ( although of course we had help from kunny).
    It's a shame that they decided on other things, than give us Cantha and then maybe do something surprising for the people who want somewhere different, and tbh with all the arguments with people saying they don't want Cantha because they want something new, nothing like that has been said about the areas we are going to now -
    It's frustrating.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    But they've also said the same thing in the past, and we got an expansion. I don't see the difference.

    They stopped saying anything of that sort long before they announced HoT. Their last statements about how LS is going to give us everything we'd want from expac were from the very beginning of LS2.

    Yes, it is possible they will change their mind, but from the moment it happens (which won't be tomorrow - i'd expect at least 2-3 chapters of LS5, if not until the whole Icebrood Saga is out, before they might even consider changing the current release schedule) it would still take 2 years before we might possibly get an expac. So, we should not expect one for at least 3-4 years. And in 4 years from now, anyone that might want that expac will be long gone.

    Seriously, you were saying almost the same things shortly after layoffs. In that half a year, we've got even further away from expac than we were then.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cptaylor.2670 said:
    Just take it as a no. Even if they were it would be years away. So there’s not really a point in demanding a yes or no. And I think if they had anything planned beyond quality of life improvements and strike missions in terms of features they would have mentioned something by now. The wvw alliance is probably a year away at least. I would be surprised to see anymore fractals or raids to be honest. Maybe they shifted the few people working on those to strike missions. Though that would seem a bit overkill if they only have one strike mission per episode. Maybe part strike missions and part world bosses? So everything open world. To be fair, strike missions could also be dungeon-esque instead of a queable wambam boss fight and done.

    Though it would be nice if they had spent any of the 5 pages they spent on merchandise in this latest magazine to talk about like... actual rewards and incentive to do these missions. Is this merchandise what they’re relying on to keep afloat or something? They’ve never pushed it this hard, but the fact that they’re pushing it harder than actual in game content concerns me.

    This is exactly my point.. the comic mag style release on paper looks nice and would of been a far better way to intro the new "SAGA" than the merch show, which as you point out takes up lots more room than actual detail and what detail there is just doesn't really tell us much... hopefully that will change as the SAGA unfolds.
    TBH for me the warning signs appeared when we started getting these weird data mongering promo's with that so local coffee shop and the beetle comp that no one ever got announced as winning... hmmm. Then we began to get content requiring us to relentlessly farm a rune that was chosen for its starved supply and miniscule Mystic toilet RNG odds, whilst knowingly allowing the item to inflated to silly season proportions in an effort to temp us to buy gems and convert or alternatively take as much wealth away within the game in as short a time as possible for future gemspike effects as they roll out new ways to do the same thing, (ding - change to salvaging, nerf farm map activity and adding more weapon / trinket skins requiring more farming or buying off TP)
    All culminating in what amounts to be a new merch push as of last week.. btw I also hope I read way to much into the little nudge about "what we have gotten for free up to this point" maybe being a sign that ICB might just be the end of that business plan and they begin to push future LS with that elusive expansion type content into paid DLC.. if it is I hope to god it will be worthy of it.
    This is why I am hoping ANET are not in the situation now of having to rely on those short term up ticks to fund only piece meal content releases cos in my experience it only takes one bad release or a sudden global downturn in consumer spending out of their control to push further critical decisions upon the studio.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now we are getting more LW, just under another name. Granted the company has suffered a self-inflicted wound but it is like they learned nothing. Their big announcement did not even say they hoped to get back to expansions.

    Why should they? Honestly, the same people that don't tire to tell us "LS episodes only have 2 hours of content" were screaming and throwing tantrums that PoF wasn't a proper expansion and only had "2 days of content" tops and was "just a glorified DLC" and I don't know what else.

    Meanwhile a lot of people appreciate the continuous stream of content we get through living world. Season 4 has easily giving us an expansion worth of content (minus elite specs, although we did get some pretty extensive class overhauls/reworks during the time) in about the timeframe of an expansion cycle. From the comments I've seen from ANet employees over the last months and years it seems to me that the episodic structure of living world also meshes a lot better with their development process. Why should they "hope to get back to expansions" when living world works for them and seemingly for a good number of players, too?

  • Acheron.4731Acheron.4731 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now we are getting more LW, just under another name. Granted the company has suffered a self-inflicted wound but it is like they learned nothing. Their big announcement did not even say they hoped to get back to expansions.

    Why should they? Honestly, the same people that don't tire to tell us "LS episodes only have 2 hours of content" were screaming and throwing tantrums that PoF wasn't a proper expansion and only had "2 days of content" tops and was "just a glorified DLC" and I don't know what else.

    Meanwhile a lot of people appreciate the continuous stream of content we get through living world. Season 4 has easily giving us an expansion worth of content (minus elite specs, although we did get some pretty extensive class overhauls/reworks during the time) in about the timeframe of an expansion cycle. From the comments I've seen from ANet employees over the last months and years it seems to me that the episodic structure of living world also meshes a lot better with their development process. Why should they "hope to get back to expansions" when living world works for them and seemingly for a vast number of players, too?

    I don't know If I would say VAST number of players.
    It works for many?
    I think the vast number wanted more than just living world....again.

    A true friend of the crown

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Acheron.4731 said:

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now we are getting more LW, just under another name. Granted the company has suffered a self-inflicted wound but it is like they learned nothing. Their big announcement did not even say they hoped to get back to expansions.

    Why should they? Honestly, the same people that don't tire to tell us "LS episodes only have 2 hours of content" were screaming and throwing tantrums that PoF wasn't a proper expansion and only had "2 days of content" tops and was "just a glorified DLC" and I don't know what else.

    Meanwhile a lot of people appreciate the continuous stream of content we get through living world. Season 4 has easily giving us an expansion worth of content (minus elite specs, although we did get some pretty extensive class overhauls/reworks during the time) in about the timeframe of an expansion cycle. From the comments I've seen from ANet employees over the last months and years it seems to me that the episodic structure of living world also meshes a lot better with their development process. Why should they "hope to get back to expansions" when living world works for them and seemingly for a vast number of players, too?

    I don't know If I would say VAST number of players.
    It works for many?
    I think the vast number wanted more than just living world....again.

    I'm really not sure about that, especially since I remember quite a few of the most vocal "PoF is not enough to be called an expansion" posters being in fact the same that complain about the scope of living world episodes, too. But then it's really hard to judge, especially since people content with what they get are less likely to post, and only a fraction of the playerbase posts on the forums/reddit/wherever anyway.

  • I'm glad they are aware that the community is definitely looking forward to an expansion. I would truly love to see Cantha in an upcoming expansion. From what I understand they're working with 4 content teams now. I definitely hope The Icebrood Saga will help the devs set up a good workflow so that they can try new things, experiment a bit and build a strong foundation which they can use for an upcoming expansion.

    Even though I haven't played the game in years, returned just before PoF and still play casually... Guild Wars 2 is still my favorite game to play online. Will be keeping an eye on the developments and my fingers crossed.

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    But it's just as possible the guy is saying we really don't know what we're doing after Season 5

    Isn't that the worst case scenario? That ArenaNet has no long term plan and no idea what they'll do in the future?

    If they're so uncertain of what will happen the day after tomorrow (because two years is next to nothing in game development time), how could they expect us to invest our time in their game? How reliable are they going to be?

    You can't plan creativity, but 7 years of GW2 have shown that ANet is able to continuously come up with something good (at least in my opinion) through their creative development process. Personally I prefer for them to have the creative freedom if they keep coming up with new and interesting things for me to play with. Not every person is the "plan ahead" type, some people simply work better by spontaneously and flexibly adjusting to ideas and situations as they come up.

    I'm sure ANet does have at least a rough a plan of what they want to do long term, but they are also willing to adjust said plan on the fly if something doesn't work out the way they thought it would, and are willing to adjust plans if a better idea comes along.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @AlexxxDelta.1806 said:
    Nice list of what is perceived as expansion-like features. You forgot a new class (Rev) in HoT.

    Bah, I knew I forgot something. Good catch.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Acheron.4731 said:

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now we are getting more LW, just under another name. Granted the company has suffered a self-inflicted wound but it is like they learned nothing. Their big announcement did not even say they hoped to get back to expansions.

    Why should they? Honestly, the same people that don't tire to tell us "LS episodes only have 2 hours of content" were screaming and throwing tantrums that PoF wasn't a proper expansion and only had "2 days of content" tops and was "just a glorified DLC" and I don't know what else.

    Meanwhile a lot of people appreciate the continuous stream of content we get through living world. Season 4 has easily giving us an expansion worth of content (minus elite specs, although we did get some pretty extensive class overhauls/reworks during the time) in about the timeframe of an expansion cycle. From the comments I've seen from ANet employees over the last months and years it seems to me that the episodic structure of living world also meshes a lot better with their development process. Why should they "hope to get back to expansions" when living world works for them and seemingly for a vast number of players, too?

    I don't know If I would say VAST number of players.
    It works for many?
    I think the vast number wanted more than just living world....again.

    I'm really not sure about that, especially since I remember quite a few of the most vocal "PoF is not enough to be called an expansion" posters being in fact the same that complain about the scope of living world episodes, too. But then it's really hard to judge, especially since people content with what they get are less likely to post, and only a fraction of the playerbase posts on the forums/reddit/wherever anyway.

    Then how are you seemingly able to make such assertations...

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Rasimir.6239Rasimir.6239 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bloodstealer.5978 said:

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Acheron.4731 said:

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Menadena.7482 said:
    Now we are getting more LW, just under another name. Granted the company has suffered a self-inflicted wound but it is like they learned nothing. Their big announcement did not even say they hoped to get back to expansions.

    Why should they? Honestly, the same people that don't tire to tell us "LS episodes only have 2 hours of content" were screaming and throwing tantrums that PoF wasn't a proper expansion and only had "2 days of content" tops and was "just a glorified DLC" and I don't know what else.

    Meanwhile a lot of people appreciate the continuous stream of content we get through living world. Season 4 has easily giving us an expansion worth of content (minus elite specs, although we did get some pretty extensive class overhauls/reworks during the time) in about the timeframe of an expansion cycle. From the comments I've seen from ANet employees over the last months and years it seems to me that the episodic structure of living world also meshes a lot better with their development process. Why should they "hope to get back to expansions" when living world works for them and seemingly for a vast number of players, too?

    I don't know If I would say VAST number of players.
    It works for many?
    I think the vast number wanted more than just living world....again.

    I'm really not sure about that, especially since I remember quite a few of the most vocal "PoF is not enough to be called an expansion" posters being in fact the same that complain about the scope of living world episodes, too. But then it's really hard to judge, especially since people content with what they get are less likely to post, and only a fraction of the playerbase posts on the forums/reddit/wherever anyway.

    Then how are you seemingly able to make such assertations...

    Bad phrasing because I was in a hurry when I originally posted? ;) Let me change "vast" to "good", it probably conveyes better what I wanted to say anyway.

  • Bloodstealer.5978Bloodstealer.5978 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Rasimir.6239 said:

    @Erasculio.2914 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    But it's just as possible the guy is saying we really don't know what we're doing after Season 5

    Isn't that the worst case scenario? That ArenaNet has no long term plan and no idea what they'll do in the future?

    If they're so uncertain of what will happen the day after tomorrow (because two years is next to nothing in game development time), how could they expect us to invest our time in their game? How reliable are they going to be?

    You can't plan creativity, but 7 years of GW2 have shown that ANet is able to continuously come up with something good (at least in my opinion) through their creative development process. Personally I prefer for them to have the creative freedom if they keep coming up with new and interesting things for me to play with. Not every person is the "plan ahead" type, some people simply work better by spontaneously and flexibly adjusting to ideas and situations as they come up.

    I'm sure ANet does have at least a rough a plan of what they want to do long term, but they are also willing to adjust said plan on the fly if something doesn't work out the way they thought it would, and are willing to adjust plans if a better idea comes along.

    Creativity comes in many guises.. but the simple fact remains, no matter how creative you are or how long it may take to push that creativity to the forefront, the business has to have the resources to be able to see such creativity realised, whether that be here and now or in the future. If it is the latter, like an expac would have to ultimately be, then they have to have a roadmap to get there and along that road it has to generate the necessary revenue or bend the knee. So for the moment all we have is LW to get us their and lets all hope they can pull off some expansion like content suprises that will keep wowing us enough to temp us to continue bashing away at our keyboards long enough.

    Life is what YOU make it... NOT what others tell you!

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    But they've also said the same thing in the past, and we got an expansion. I don't see the difference.

    They stopped saying anything of that sort long before they announced HoT. Their last statements about how LS is going to give us everything we'd want from expac were from the very beginning of LS2.

    Yes, it is possible they will change their mind, but from the moment it happens (which won't be tomorrow - i'd expect at least 2-3 chapters of LS5, if not until the whole Icebrood Saga is out, before they might even consider changing the current release schedule) it would still take 2 years before we might possibly get an expac. So, we should not expect one for at least 3-4 years. And in 4 years from now, anyone that might want that expac will be long gone.

    Seriously, you were saying almost the same things shortly after layoffs. In that half a year, we've got even further away from expac than we were then.

    Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?

    We don't know what's going on behind the scenes and we never had. When Anet made the NPE, everyone thought it was about the game releasing in China. Only in hindsight did we learn that it was going free to play, no doubt the real reason for the NPE. Anet knew that, we didn't. The problem is, we've never really had enough information to predict what was going to happen. It gives you the kind of illusion of control.

    I've lost track of how many games give you all this info up front and it turns out gradually not to be true over time. This is better in some ways and worse in others. Anet isn't telling us what's going on long term, because long term plans are harder to keep. The further out the plans, the harder it is to predict if you can fulfill them.

    I heard some plans about EQ Landmark and EQ Next. Even prepurchased EQ Landmark. Let me tell you how that worked out for me.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Seth Moonshadow.2710 said:
    Mike Z. is still committed to a future of Living World Sagas.

    Mike Z.'s Quote:
    "he said “I don’t think we have an answer for that one yet. For us, at least today, we know that with the stuff that we want to give – the quality of life improvements, the story we’re trying to tell – Icebrood Saga is the best way we can deliver free content to our players.”" ~https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/new-expansion

    Justin's Quote:
    "PR manager Justin Fassino then added “I think the important thing here, obviously, is that everyone at the studio knows that there’s a demand for an expansion. So it’s not like we’re ruling it out.” ~https://www.pcgamesn.com/guild-wars-2/new-expansion

    this to me sounds just like in Vanilla before they told us that they changed their mind on Expansion being a thing, which by that point already the expansion was already in the works.

    They cant answer the question about it because they working on an expansion, as somebody pointed out on Reddit, they said early in PoF that they were working on the next expansion back then. All major MMO Developers do this.

    But they wont tell us anything about them working on it until they ready to reveal it. Unfortunately, Anet tends to hide this Expansion news until close to the last moment unlike other Developers like Blizzard that will announce the expansion a much early in advance of release.

    They know people want expansions is the dead give away. Its their money maker, not the free content. They want the Story to lead into the 3rd expansion for the expansion reveal like LW2.

    LW1->LW2->HoT->LW3->PoF->LW4->LW5->Expansion 3

  • CETheLucid.3964CETheLucid.3964 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    I'm in no rush. It's nice to hear though. I understand the criticisms the community had with the recent reveal but what actually came of it was nothing bad.

    Advertising and opening the game to a broader audience (PAX crowd, expac bundling) wasn't a bad thing and they treated their veteran players to free and exclusive gear.

    I'm okay with living story being the norm for a bit as long as they add something beefy like elite specs down the road.

    They could do something that leads each class down a unique quest and make it something of a story sort of like they did with earlier legendary weapons, but maybe not so exhaustive and collect-y.

    Maybe elaborate on the master NPC concept that PoF had going. They had a nice little story about how your new elite spec came to be and themselves but the NPCs didn't really do much but exist.

    I'm thinking maybe each class gets one of those again and they take you on a mini-personal story quest to unlock a new elite spec pertaining to the story as it develops. Something like that.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?

    No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

    Gemstore outfits and mount skins! B)

    The degenerate

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SkyShroud.2865 said:
    Not ruled out is equal not in work which means....what are they doing in the background now?!

    The Icebrood Saga. There was an announcement and everything.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?

    No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

    Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion level stuff without the expansion wait, because all they've told us is pretty much what they're doing in the first two episodes. My point is, we've had a vacuum of information all along. I didn't expect elite specs soon, even if they were going to come with this expansion.

    HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the kitten.

    People complained about the difficulty. People complained about the grind. People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc. At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

    HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

    People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?

    No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

    Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion

    Are we ignoring that there was a whole year before the layoffs happened where the company actively decided they werent making an expansion? The layoffs are one thing but its not about them going "lets make an expansion" a week after the layoffs, its going "lets not make an expansion" a week after pof's launch.

    HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the

    Better isnt the first word that comes to mind when i think of Hot's promotion. From reveal to release it took them 9~ months which severely hurt the hype the innitial announcement had built up

    People complained about the difficulty.

    Understandable, there wasnt any built up, but it was still managable.

    People complained about the grind.

    Mostly because it blocked story progression.

    People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

    Because there wasnt, anet after alot of the complaining did what anet always does and did a 180 and went for the opposite and as always they overshot the mark, that left pof starved in terms of big map wide meta events, anything that resembled a world boss and very very bad rewards.

    At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

    Are we ignoring the miserable post hot support for big parts of the game? The terrible pvp balance that killed the pvp scene and esports and the massive problems with wvw?
    You make it sound like the expansion itself was what was wrong with the game at the time but it was only aprt of the problem, the smallest one imo.

    HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

    People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

    Expacs are still the only way this company pushed the game out to the internet and reached player milestones that years of lw didnt break or reach. Both of their expansions were struggling and that was mostly on anet for swinging to hard on either direction in both cases

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Yep, I was saying the same thing six months ago. Imagine that, six whole months. See everyone is like this stuff has to happen now, but I was never a happen now type of guy. I was saying there would be an expansion before the first expansion years before it came out. Because that stuff does take a long time. But then I'm in it for the long haul. I didn't put a time limit on it. Did you expect there would be lay offs, the company would reoganize in a week and have an expansion in a month?

    No, but i hoped they would start working on it soon. If they did, we could have received the expansion in ~18 months or so. Unfortunately, they not only didn't start working on it, but they don't plan to start working on it in any foreseeable future. Which means that the 18 months suddenly increased to at least 3-4 years. And that's only assuming they will decide to change the course during LS5, which is in no way certain. They may decide to wait till after the Saga is done, in hope "it will work out", in which case the delay might be even longer. The problem is that the game here no longer can afford to delay something crucial for 4 years. It wasn't in that state even before HoT, and it definitely isn't in that state now.

    Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing. For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion. It doesn't work like that. By the same token they might be really planning on introducing some expansion

    Are we ignoring that there was a whole year before the layoffs happened where the company actively decided they werent making an expansion? The layoffs are one thing but its not about them going "lets make an expansion" a week after the layoffs, its going "lets not make an expansion" a week after pof's launch.

    HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the

    Better isnt the first word that comes to mind when i think of Hot's promotion. From reveal to release it took them 9~ months which severely hurt the hype the innitial announcement had built up

    People complained about the difficulty.

    Understandable, there wasnt any built up, but it was still managable.

    People complained about the grind.

    Mostly because it blocked story progression.

    People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game. Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

    Because there wasnt, anet after alot of the complaining did what anet always does and did a 180 and went for the opposite and as always they overshot the mark, that left pof starved in terms of big map wide meta events, anything that resembled a world boss and very very bad rewards.

    At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game? We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all. I get it. You want an expansion. I want an expansion. They want an expansion. Except it hasn't necessarily worked out well financially for Anet in the past. It gives them a bunch of income but costs them extra as well.

    Are we ignoring the miserable post hot support for big parts of the game? The terrible pvp balance that killed the pvp scene and esports and the massive problems with wvw?
    You make it sound like the expansion itself was what was wrong with the game at the time but it was only aprt of the problem, the smallest one imo.

    HoT was stuff they'd been working on and it was made into an expansion largely after the fact. Could HoT have been introduced as a Saga? I believe it could have. Zone by zone, in parts if necessary. Just the say Silverwastes and Dry Top had been introduced.

    People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term. I'm not even sure that's the case. We know they're working on content. Expansion or not expansion. It's just a delivery mechanism for content they're already working on. But just six months after the layoffs. I don't know who'd even expect an expansion to be started. I sure didn't.

    Expacs are still the only way this company pushed the game out to the internet and reached player milestones that years of lw didnt break or reach. Both of their expansions were struggling and that was mostly on anet for swinging to hard on either direction in both cases

    I'm not ignoring anything. I'm telling you, from Anet's point of view, what they got from two expansions. If it was there fault or not, they might be getting more bang for the buck out of living world and if that's the case it's what they're going to do. Do most players want an expansion? Undoubtedly. Does that mean it's automatically better to make an expansion?

    Well a good expansion can propel the game to new heights. A bad or badly handled/promoted/supported expansion can sink the game. So far, expansions haven't been a sure thing. There's an element of risk involved that people don't seem to be acknowledging. It's not like expansion equals success. If that were the case it might be a no brainer.

    I don't disagree with everything you say, not even most of it. But it doesn't change the process from a business decision. If I ran a business, I wouldn't put all my eggs in one basket right now either.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It’s not overly surprising. They didn’t know they were making ls5 until halfway through making ls4.

    Whether the other projects took too much time or whether they were torn about an expac back then, we won’t know.

    Anet have never been great planners, but ultimately the saga is going to dominate the next year or two. I’m not overly happy about that but I’ve accepted it. Others need to decide whether to accept it or wait it out in continuous hope for an expac.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Typical damage control.

  • Ghetx.1752Ghetx.1752 Member ✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @Blockhead Magee.3092 said:
    Lets see..... Factions = HOT Elona = POF Icebrood Saga = EOTN (and the abandonment of new GW1 content). Let the rumors fly that there will be no new expansions and GW3 is secretly underway.

    Dream on,dream on.

    People want stability,they want to know their hard work wont be gone,which would be the case with GW3.That's why wow is still going on and that's why wow 2 is never going to exist.

    Some people spent thousand of dollars on TP,and believe me when i tell you,there would be armagedon if anet announced GW3.

    Transition from GW to GW2 had to happen. GW wasn't finished nor polished game.It was nothing but practice for GW2 and what to do and what not to do next time.

    Not having a jumping ability in 2005 MMO game,says everything.

  • Tiviana.2650Tiviana.2650 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    I said it before and i will say it again. Games have a development team working on future content always, aside from that they have a regular team that works on the current game. If that isnt whats happening then what is the reason why that isnt happening, lack of funding? lack of leadership? lack of ideas? or just done with progressing the game that way...that poses the question is this a a downward spiral into maintenance mode.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Your hopes and what's realistic aren't the same thing.

    So what? If what i hope for is not realistic anymore, that's definitely not a good thing. It may explain things, that's true (but see below), but that's definitely not something that is reassuring at all. Quite the opposite.

    For one thing, we still don't have enough information to frame what kind of content we'll eventually be getting. This is a company that had a direction already and six months ago went through a layoff and reorganization that they didn't plan for. It takes months to recover from something like that just to get back on your feet, not days or weeks. This isn't the kind of thing you just shrug off and say hey let's do an expansion.

    True. They decided to abandon expansions long before that. It's not layoffs that decided we won't have an expansion after ls4 - it was something they decided at least 2 years before.

    My point is, we've had a vacuum of information all along.

    Yes, we've had that. It's a problem in itself.

    HoT wasn't a planned expansion originally. They had been working on a bunch of different things which they had originally planned to deliver with the living world, but the fan base shouted for and demanded an expansion. A lot of people love HoT and think that helped the game, but in reality, though it's my favorite expansion personally, I think HoT hurt the game. Why do you think they made such a big deal about HOT and they made such a small deal about PoF? HoT was far more loudly and better promoted than PoF was and it bit them in the kitten.

    That wasn't because it was so hyped. It was because they misjudged their player community badly, which caused the expac to be designed in a way that ended up not well-received initially.

    People complained about the difficulty. People complained about the grind. People complained about the confusing layout of the zones. People said there were only four maps, and that there was no replayable content. People said, people said, people said, without really understanding because they didn't know. To this day those maps remain some of the most popular in the game.

    Among those players that remained. Not among those that left (rather obviously).

    Path of Fire came with five maps and people still complained it was over too fast there was no repeatable content, etc etc etc.

    Again, that was because Anet didn't really understand what the people really complained ebout. Hint: it wasn't about the existence of the metas.

    At the end of the day, did expansions help or hurt the game?

    Yes, both expansions helped. Even HoT, that was a mixed blessing, caused the game to be in a better spot that it would have been if the original LS design continued on.

    We're at a relatively stable quarterly income now that's just a hair higher than we settled into after HoT. So how does putting the extra money/time effort into an expansion help over all.

    Remember, that we're at that level only due to expacs. We would have been way lower than that if not for them.

    People keep saying expansion expansion expansion like the expansions of this game really helped the game long term.

    Because they did.

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    Well a good expansion can propel the game to new heights. A bad or badly handled/promoted/supported expansion can sink the game.

    Indeed, there's a risk. Unfortunately not taking that risk is not an option, because continuing with the LS reeases only is not a risk, but a certainty of decay. It's the expacs that bring players back to the game, and generate increased interest in it. LS so far has only managed to slow people leaving at best. You are also forgetting (or not mentioning), that a badly done LS can sink the game as surely as a badly done expac. Even more surely, actually, because noone will be hoping the next expac might salvage the problem anymore.

    No one said what you hope for is not realistic anymore. Expecting an expansion to start six months after a major layoff is probably optimistic though. Anet is going to try something and see if it can work. If it can't they'll try something else. This is what this company has done as long as I've known them. There will be people that leave because there's no expansion announced, sure. But let me ask you. Why would Anet announce an expansion if they don't know they're they're going to make one WHILE trying something else. They may have an idea for something that they think will do the trick, that's more than what they've done before. Which may be why they changed the name to Saga. Does it mean it will be acceptable to you personally? I don't know. But I think the people who are holding out for expansions or bust, without seeing what's coming, are just assuming the past is like the future. I didn't find LS 2 to be anything like LS 3 to be anything like LS 4. They were all very different. HOT was very different than PoF.

    Before HoT game out, people were saying $60 for an expansion of that complexity and depth was too expansive, for a game without a sub, that wasn't pay to win. I didn't think it was too expensive but people said it. They wanted a game for much cheaper. Path of Fire was half the price, but it was also, with the exception of mounts, less of an expansion. People got through it faster and though it had a better reception, people complained more later. At the end of the day, Anet hasn't found the right balance. Will they try again. I think they probably will if what they're doing now doesn't meet with the expectations of the playerbase. But then, this company has the ability to adapt because POF was so vastly different from HOT. You're assuming they lost that ability. I'm not making that assumption. I'm not going to say expansion or bust, since I haven't seen what they have in store during this season. If the word expansion is important to you and it's all that's important to you, you'll either wait or leave. That's pretty much happens to older MMOs. People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

  • zealex.9410zealex.9410 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

    This gives off the impression that 8 mil ppl grew out of WoW and stopped playing it, which is wrong, it also gives the impression that they still make the public numbers available which is also wrong.

  • Vayne.8563Vayne.8563 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @zealex.9410 said:

    @Vayne.8563 said:
    People leave them after playing for many many hours. In the case of WoW, they want from 12.4 million subs to 4 million subs. They lost a lot of people during that time, not to mention not all those people are people who came back which means more than 8 million people stopped playing WoW for good. As long as the playerbase stablizes at a number that can sustain the game, what one person or even what group of people does won't matter much in the scheme of things.

    This gives off the impression that 8 mil ppl grew out of WoW and stopped playing it, which is wrong, it also gives the impression that they still make the public numbers available which is also wrong.

    When they stopped publishing numbers, it had dropped that low though.

  • Marxx.5021Marxx.5021 Member ✭✭✭

    The company lags developers. A narritive team alone is good for some story elements and thats it.

  • Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

  • deliberately vague and noncommital statement? everyone get the party van rolling!
    :/

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    5 more days

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

    they said a while ago they were making one

  • @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

    they said a while ago they were making one

    Really? Could you post a link?

  • @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @TheBravery.9615 said:
    Doesn't mean they're making one right now either.

    they said a while ago they were making one

    No they didn't.

    And spreading misinformation won't magically make it happen either.

  • Dami.5046Dami.5046 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    I really don't think they will. I think we will see another game title over an e-xpac, because Guildwars is a ded game, too grindy, not balanced, not on twitch, boring, got ascended armour, hates wvw and pvp, has too many maps, no one wants cantha, no one wants open pvp, housing and fishing means work, complains, moans, etc.

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Did people actually think the previous stance on a possible future expansion was set in stone for all eternity? There is always a chance for them to change any stance on any matter they previously held. This changes nothing and means very little in the end.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

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