On condi duration for Renegade. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

On condi duration for Renegade.

BrokenGlass.9356BrokenGlass.9356 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 4, 2019 in Revenant

https://snowcrows.com/raids/builds/revenant/renegade/condition/

The stock meta build, sick. But kinda low on duration, see here in the skill builder. (EDIT: corrected build to match snowcrows.com)
http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAkeVltQIsNKipRSsMCiNSgMDSgjtk5TF-zRJYmR3fhEXVFZoUZCK8BJE+bR3zK-e

This build has much better durations. Burning maxed out, and torment and bleed. But lower condi damage.

http://gw2skills.net/editor/?PmwAkeVltQIsNKipRSsMCiNSgMDSgjtk5TF-zRRYNR3YG+wIpqCTVjDiIsqGZqaL6eWB-e

Then I found this

https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/User:DarkFire/Condition_Damage_Optimization

Where's the line? And did snowcrows already find it?

Comments

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Only one way to find out... to the golems.

  • @phokus.8934 said:
    Only one way to find out... to the golems.

    Fair enough, sadly I'm at work and haven't had the chance to really test it. Played it a bit last night, but still have a few trinkets to get in order, and rusty fingers from a long break. So, under my own power on a regular small weak golem, I started a 8.8k, and ramped to 10k when hot. Under raid buffs I averaged 17k.

    But here's the thing. I'm not very good at raid rotations, but kinda used to be? So it's like I had my game face on, but then compilation-failed through the thing. So I know somebody out there with faster fingers than I can do it the justice I can't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Maybe it’s my phone but both gw2skills URLs link to the same build.

    When it comes to raid, you also need to consider that builds can sacrifice personal DPS in favor of higher group DPS. Or perhaps it’s for better utility.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:
    Maybe it’s my phone but both gw2skills URLs link to the same build.

    When it comes to raid, you also need to consider that builds can sacrifice personal DPS in favor of higher group DPS. Or perhaps it’s for better utility.

    Fair point, this is why the old cond Rev build brought the destruction trait line, just for assassins prescience.

    My concern is mainly with the gear underneath the same snowcrows build.

    So I'm trying to find the line. I'll describe the difference in text here, then I'll reedit my first post's links.

    Snowcrows uses full vipers. Armor, weapons and trinkets. Then Nightmare runes. Full expertise infusions. This is 74% duration for all condis, and 94% on torment, with Poison overcapped. (the trait gives a boatload of poison duration)

    I'm proposing to use, Vipers armor and trinkets. Givers weapons. Runes of the afflicted, sigil of malice and smoldering. This is 80% duration for all condis, with an 20% each bonuses to bleeds, burns, and torment. And 50% to poison. End result being 100% torment, bleed, poison, and burning.

  • LucianTheAngelic.7054LucianTheAngelic.7054 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 4, 2019

    The issue you’re going to run into is that Torment is the primary damage of the spec and is already near capped at 94%. To get higher durations you have to change either rune or sigil sets as you mentioned. By dropping Geomancy, Earth, and Doom you’re losing a lot of raw damage in favor of boosting the damage output of the rest of your skills. Sadly, the math doesn’t usually work out in favor of % increases as usually new raw damage numbers (things like geomancy) end up much higher dps. It’s just how the math works.

  • @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    The issue you’re going to run into is that Torment is the primary damage of the spec and is already near capped at 94%. To get higher durations you have to change either rune or sigil sets as you mentioned. By dropping Geomancy, Earth, and Doom you’re losing a lot of raw damage in favor of boosting the damage output of the rest of your skills. Sadly, the math doesn’t usually work out in favor of % increases as usually new raw damage numbers (things like geomancy) end up much higher dps. It’s just how the math works.

    That's what I was afraid of. Looks like I'm going to be mystic forging a few things back to snowcrows. Meh... I was hoping I was really onto a thing.

  • narcx.3570narcx.3570 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    @BrokenGlass.9356 said:

    Snowcrows uses full vipers. Armor, weapons and trinkets. Then Nightmare runes. Full expertise infusions. This is 74% duration for all condis, and 94% on torment, with Poison overcapped. (the trait gives a boatload of poison duration)

    SC uses condi damage infusions, not expertise... You get more dps out of them because of Yearning Empowerment's multiplicative scaling.

    You could make more of a case for expertise vs large hitbox/vindication, because you're less reliant on torment--but you're already using Baelfire runes with that set up, so it works itself out duration-wise. And also, that build's not really used ever in raids because the only large hitbox bosses you'd want to bring renegade to are Dhuum, Qadim2.0, and maybe Cairn (if you're brave enough to tilt off all your mirage friends with that dark field), and those are very much lasting legacy/torment fights due to the "always moving" status of the last two and just everything about the dhuum encounter in general.

  • Maybe im a little late but to give a little bit more insight:

    Renegade has 4 conditions as a main damage Source. Torment, Buring, Bleeding and Poison. Poison isnt really important for this since its overcapped anyway. I wont even bother talking about it here. This leaves us with 3 Conditions.
    If you look at other Condi Classes you wil notice that this is pretty unique. Most classes only have 1 or 2 Conditions as their main Damage Source.
    Basically, we would need enough condition duration to compensate for 3 conditions, while others can get away with 1 or 2.

    Renegade has 2 traits to help with this. One for 20% Torment Duration and one for 25% Bleed Duration.
    We dont have any traits that convert X Amount of Y Stat into Expertise.
    This leaves us with 3 options for more Condition Duration. Infusions, Runes and Sigils.

    Sigils are way to good on renegade considering that you can double proc them.
    While we could run Expertise, we are also low on Condition Damage.
    Renegade has ~1600 Condition Damage. Compare that with Firebrands 2k, or Mirage and kitten´s ~1700.

    That leaves us with Runes. There are a lot of Runes that increase our duration. Baelfire for example.
    However, Nightmare gives us 20% Conditon Duration for all 4 Conditions AND 175 Condition Damage. The best of both worlds for us.

    TL;DR We dont cap because we have too many conditions to rely on.

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