Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 6th 2019

edited September 6, 2019 in Professions

Greetings again all,

Thanks for the feedback regarding the proposed changes posted last week.

Below you'll find a set of changes we're looking at which is WvW-centric, as well as a few modifications to some of the changes from the last thread. With these changes the objective is to bring the dominant builds and compositions into line and offer more build diversity to the existing meta. Because there's been some confusion, we want to clarify that we're continuing to balance for other game types, including (as some of you guessed) significant changes to the warrior's Tactics line as well as the necromancer's Death Magic line, ranger sword changes and more.

As before, this isn't the full set of changes we're preparing and this is not a call for general profession feedback.
Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

  • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?
  • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
  • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?
  • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

Here is what we're looking at. Previously posted and unchanged items are italicized at the bottom of each profession's section so that it should be easier to focus on the new and changed parts of this set of changes:

Items

  • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

Engineer

  • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
  • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
  • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
  • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
  • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
  • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

Guardian

  • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
  • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
  • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
  • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

Mesmer

  • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
  • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
  • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
  • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

Necromancer

  • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
  • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
  • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
  • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
  • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
  • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
  • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

Ranger

  • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

Revenant

  • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
  • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

Thief

  • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

Warrior

  • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
  • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
  • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
  • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

Sincerely,
~Irenio

Tagged:
<13456

Comments

  • Thundabolt.8541Thundabolt.8541 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    Engineer's purge gyro staying at 5 pulses is very nice to hear.

    Sneak Gyro getting an increased cooldown isn't really necessary -- it wouldn't change anything except to cause the engineer to stay at a safe distance for even longer [EDIT] while they wait for the cooldown to end. You'd be better off looking at Thief if you're going to tone down anything's stealth. (But as a Deadeye, please don't <3 )

    Also, as someone who is new to Mesmer, all these changes to the class is making the learning process a little uncomfortable.

    As for Warrior... I say this again -- can we please get some kind of downside to Endure Pain?

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Awesome the the feedback is being listened too! May I implore you again to reconsider to Fury on Charge with Quickbreathing traited? We have a great source of group Fury via For Great Justice already and adding it to Charge would be redundant.

    Can you consider instead Retaliation or Stability? Are the any changes planned for Shouts and Vigorous Shouts?

    If you have Vigorous Shouts provide adrenaline per Ally affected instead of a flat 5, then I can already see an amazing DPS/support Berserker build.

  • is the range reduction on holographic shockwave pvp/wvw only?

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    Glad you are adjusting Antitoxin runes. It will still allow the wielder to be essentially immune to condis, but it is better than its current implementation.

    While on the topic of runes: I would suggest you look into adjusting Tormenting Runes. I run a build that totally abuses these (Condi Rev) and the healing you can yield from just the runes alone is quite silly. It is nothing particularly remarkable on builds with mediocre torment access, but for those with high accessibility, they are completely absurd. I'm sure we would hear more about them if more meta builds actually used them. As someone who has used them almost every single day since they were reworked, I can assuredly say they are broken and unhealthy with their current functionality. I appreciate that your rework of runes pushed towards creating more build-defining options, but there comes a point where a build's viability is carried too hard by a rune set. That is too far down the spectrum, just like Antitoxin runes have been.

    I appreciate you scaling up the healing power coefficients for Scourge barrier skills. Will these apply to PvE as well?

    I saw somebody suggest adding an AoE vuln application to Detection Pulse so the toolbelt skill retains a semblance of relevance for PvE; personally I think this is a fantastic idea and wouldn't make it such a niche skill for a change that is very blatantly a WvW change.

    Also thank you for showing us your thought process more by posting a follow-up like this. Honestly it feels like you listened to a fair amount of the feedback. Glad you are looking into Sand Savant as well. What exactly are you worried about as far as its impact on PvE? Is it not an inferior GM choice for DPS? If so, what harm is there in retaining its 10 target functionality while pushing it deeper in the realm of support and less in the realm of offense?

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • Great initiative, WvW is one of the best gamemodes a MMORPG ever had and it needs changes in its meta and balance is the way to go.
    I overall agree with these changes, I would also like to see more balance updates about WvW, and a bit part of that is balancing sigils and runes. This is very important because it is the real main reason to why the gamemode is at the moment a big mess. Purification sigils (3 condi clear on weapon swap) for example is truly overpowered for a PvP gamemode.

    I still believe that this game/gamemode can be great again and there are many people that would join the GW2 adventure because of its massive "open world" pvp.

    I wanted to end this comment with a few words about roaming. It is such a great way to play the game and is nowaday very hard to do so. I think that there are stuff to do about this.
    Anyway, that's really a good thing that you do balance the WvW again.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Greetings again all,

    Thanks for the feedback regarding the proposed changes posted last week.

    Below you'll find a set of changes we're looking at which is WvW-centric, as well as a few modifications to some of the changes from the last thread. With these changes the objective is to bring the dominant builds and compositions into line and offer more build diversity to the existing meta. Because there's been some confusion, we want to clarify that we're continuing to balance for other game types, including (as some of you guessed) significant changes to the warrior's Tactics line as well as the necromancer's Death Magic line, ranger sword changes and more.

    As before, this isn't the full set of changes we're preparing and this is not a call for general profession feedback.
    Here are a few questions to think about while looking over the potential changes:

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?
    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?
    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?
    • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

    Here is what we're looking at. Previously posted and unchanged items are italicized at the bottom of each profession's section so that it should be easier to focus on the new and changed parts of this set of changes:

    Items

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    Revenant

    • Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
    • Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Thief

    • Deadly Ambition: Reduce the poison inflicted by this trait from 2 stacks for 3 seconds to 1 stack for 2 seconds in PvP & WvW. Reduce the internal cooldown from 5s to 2s in PvP & WvW.

    Warrior

    • Charge: This skill would only removes movement impairing conditions and then increases the damage of affected allies' next 2 attacks by 25% in PvE and PvP and 10% in WvW in addition to its previous effects. Increase swiftness duration from 10 seconds to 15 seconds. This skill becomes a blast finisher.
    • Call to Arms: Removes 3 conditions from affected allies instead of specific conditions. Grants barrier in addition to vigor.
    • Sight Beyond Sight: Increase the radius of this ability to reveal hidden enemies up to 600 range away.
    • Quick Breathing: Thinking of kicking re-working it a bit to pair with the warhorn skill changes so they feel more cohesive. Continues to increase number of targets for warhorn skills from 5 to 10 and causes warhorn skills to grant an additional boon instead of reducing the cooldown (Fury for Charge and Resistance for Call to Arms). Grant +120 Concentration.

    Thanks once again for your feedback and for keeping things focused.

    Sincerely,
    ~Irenio

    As an FB main, thank you for not taking all of our aegis away. I think this is a a great direction for change. This won’t completely change the way I play in wvw too negatively.

  • Sand shroud changes are completely random and pointless. Barrier nerf is what's needed.

    Insert a random accomplishment that nobody cares about here
    Hi I'm important

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?

    Combat would shift from being largely a power based fight to power/conditions

    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?

    Well, the same classes that are currently part of the WvW meta won't change much, we will just add more. You need to give other support specializations a bit more love

    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?

    It will allow stealth countering to return, break up the pure power meta, and hopefully start the crack open the door for other support specializations

    • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

    Conditions being too powerful or other support classes not getting enough buffs.

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Good.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Good changes overall. Will still be a needed class to counter stealth

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    While I don't mind the lessening of stability from the skill...you really need to help other classes/specializations if you are going to do this. Someone else also needs to be able to bring stability in an mobile AOE fashion similar to Guardian and be support orientated. Such as giving support wells on Chronomancer more help.

    Mesmer

    • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.
    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.
    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Ok. Can we please rework support wells now? Have them pulse around the user while they move. Add barrier based on healing / aegis and some stability. Support wells are a poor design in combat that requires active dodging and movement when the reward for staying them is so low. Treat them similar to Scrapper Gyros

    Necromancer

    • Oppressive Collapse: This skill will require line of sight on the activation.
    • Sand Cascade: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 33% in WvW & PvP, increase the healing power contribution by 20%, as the healing coefficient is already pretty strong.
    • Sand Flare: Reduce the base barrier granted by this skill by 25% in WvW, increase the healing power contribution by 33%.
    • Desert Shroud: Increase the base barrier granted by this skill by 10%, increase the healing power contribution by 15% and reduce the damage inflicted by this ability by 20% in WvW.
    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.
    • Feast of Corruption: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.
    • Devouring Darkness: Reduce damage by 20% in PvP & WvW. The existing split from PvP of corrupting 2 boons is brought to WvW. This ability continues to corrupt 3 boons in PvE.

    Glad these changes are happening and I am looking forward to how you will address Sand Savant. Scourge makes so many other classes irrelevant in WvW (like reaper for the most part) due to its ranged corrupt / damage mitigation / ranged damage that other classes get punished for for being in melee.

    Ranger
    * Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    Bless you and your children and pets.

    Revenant
    * Gaze of Darkness: This skill would reveal stealthed enemies up to 600 range away in addition to striking enemies within its 360 radius.
    * Coalescence of Ruin: This skill would no longer deals increased damage with successive impacts; instead it deals damage equal to what was previously the middle impact damage. Damage remains split between game modes. A red warning rectangle visible to enemies has been added to this skill.

    Looks good

    Elementalist

    Try giving tempest a shout that gives a little stability or barrier......

  • anonymous.7812anonymous.7812 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    Thanks for paying us some attention here. This is a great start --

    I do see a majority of defense skill nerfs. Not very many offense skill nerfs. Fights are so so quick in PoF meta, and I believe these will speed up fights even more.

    Also, Purity of Purpose is still way overtuned even with Antitoxin nerf. I believe it should only convert 1 condi to boon per second per player. Something like that.

    Please look at the offense skills a bit more, Revs have more than CoR that burst people down, and Scourge/Warriors are also contributing a lot.

  • @freecarl.1320 said:
    Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    Don't nerf core guardian skills because an elite spec is overtuned. Nerf the elite spec

    I think 50 stacks of stability for 12 sec (assuming you have 9 other ppl next to you and maxed boon duration) and with a personal stunbreak is an overtuned skill no matter how you look at it, it was been powerfull before anet even changed it to 10 man. You can think ppl will stop using firebrand if they nerf the spec but everyone will be still taking it for that shout + heal scrappers/ heal eles if fb will be useless. Im all for nerfing too op classes but even tome on 75 sec cd (without trait since we talking here about shout without trait as well) gives max 8 pages x 1 stab x 5 targets = 40 stab for max 8sec with cast time where the shout doesn't have one.

  • style.6173style.6173 Member ✭✭✭

    In general, good changes. I suggest two adjustments:
    1. Purge Gyro: This should stay at 5 pulses especially with the anti-toxin rune change.
    2. Stand your ground: This should NOT be nerfed in WvW. The stun meta isn't fun to play in. I'd leave this one as-is.

  • I guess nothing is happening to Ele, don't really know if that's a good sign or not xD

  • idk how this is going to change the meta. Unless the antitoxin rune nerf is really bad. But should antitoxin even be nerfed? It is really overpowered but i like that condi gets shut out of the gamemode cause condi is space aids.

  • GDchiaScrub.3241GDchiaScrub.3241 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Sanctuary target cap still too low. Please raise cap to 50 to increase its memetic value to the game.

    D:

    Holy Warriors of [Kazo] following Kazo doctrine guided by, Our Lord and Commander, Zudo in the holy Trinity of Him and his two firm glutes.

  • PaladinVII.1647PaladinVII.1647 Member ✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    Sneak Gyro: I agree with the change to 60 seconds for sneak gyro. I feel that is justified without going too far. Good job. If my suggestion helped decide this, I thank you and vow to be less cynical in the future as gratitude for listening.

    Purge Gyro and Superior Rune of Antitoxin: If the interaction between Antitoxin and Purge gyro was the concerning factor, then other skills could replace this problem: Elixer gun 3 and 5, Medkit 3. Engineers traited in Inventions (Anticorrsion Plating) so that protection they apply removes conditions; remove 3 conditions in an aoe on heal skill use (1 from Cleansing Synergy, 1 from Reconstruction Enclosure triggering Anticorrosion Plating, 1 from Antitoxin. This same combination would also remove 6 conditions in an AOE mobile water field for scrappers traited this way with Reconstruction field.

    I believe the problem lies only with the Superior Rune of Antitoxin. I did not see the power of that rune set. This runset would also be used by tempests overloading water or using ether renewal for personal denial of all conditions. Thieves would also benefit with the shadow arts trait Shadow's Rejuvenation. I say that this runeset is too powerful for support condition removal.

    I recommend an ICD of 5 seconds but no more than 10 seconds.

    Every 5 seconds, when you would remove a condition, remove an additional condition. This skill can effect multiple targets before initiating the cooldown.

    This holds precedence with other runesets that have ICD's on their T6 ability. This also would still make the runeset useful, especially at a 5 second ICD which would give just enough time to get one cleanse skill off at a bonus before moving to the next. Most mass condition removal skills have a use duration under 5 seconds, allowing each skill a chance to get a small boost as was likely intended in the initial redesign of the rune set. This would also encourage more use of blast finishers in light fields by users of this rune set, to get a 2 aoe blast cleanse instead of just one.

    If the change is made as presented, I doubt the runeset would be used at all except perhaps by a few organized groups. With the proposed ICD change, I believe the rune set will still see use without being overpowered.

    Alternatively, the rune set could be reworked to be selfish.

    When you would remove a condition on yourself, you remove one additional condition. (Possible ICD)

    As the problem with the rune set is mass condition cleanse, this may alleviate the balance concern.

    Holographic Shockwave: Yes, please! For what it does, compared to the warrior burst hammer bash, it has a rediciousaly huge aoe!

    Chemical Field and Detection Pulse: I again suggest that Detection Pulse have some additional usage beyond stealth removal. Please consider comparing it with the ranger skill "Sick 'em" which does the same thing, but single target, but also gives a damage buff for your pet or yourself if merged with your pet as a soulbeast. I recommend an application of vulnerability or weakness for the theme of the skill, or go for synergy with the scrapper trait Expert Examination and have Detection Pulse apply a short daze - but that can be dangerous as it would be an aoe intterupt; but then again, it would be unique that way and always useful; I'd recommend reducing range to 600 in turn if this suggestion is considered.

    Alternatively, Detection pulse could do the following:
    Reveal targets in a large area. For X seconds, when you damage a foe, you apply 1 stack of vulnerability for Y seconds. (Possible ICD)

    Either way, I do not suggest simply re-inserting the skill as it was seen previously. As previously stated, it does not work in PvE, even on the rare monsters that use stealth. Its use is focused so that it is either useless the majority of the time, and slightly useful in rare situations. The skill should always have some benefit to the player if the player is to consider it a part of their build.

    As previously discussed, Chemical Field was useless and I have no problems with that skill being replaced with Detection Pulse - as long as the above is considered.

  • Strider Pj.2193Strider Pj.2193 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Thank you for this, both as the feedback and the WvW focused changes to the classes. I appreciate the focus.

    Thank You for the {MEME}

  • SloRules.3560SloRules.3560 Member ✭✭✭

    In general i like the changes, but CHRONO and necro need some work, which in turn can make revenant to powerful. Guardian is always op, but i have no idea how to nerf it without taking out too much of fun factor of playing group wvw, not just for the guardian but his whole party. Maybe someone else has some better suggestions.

    Antitoxin is great change for health of the game and is currently totally broken, it will also change development of meta. Hits scrapper cleanses quite a lot, which makes alternatives a taught.

    Engineer

    Purge Gyro: since i believe scrapper is still the best cleanser this nerf can happen as far as group is concerned
    Sneak Gyro: Stealth is op, this needs the nerf
    Corona Burst: No comment
    Holographic Shockwave: No comment
    Impact Savant: No comment
    Chemical Field: HELL YES, stealth op, needs counter, this best counter, YES
    

    Guardian

    Stand Your Ground: Interesting change, i'm not sure how much it changes in grand scheme of things. I might prefer it goes to 5 targets? Since leftover stability(outside of party) is well random. Also since stabiltiy is a necesity to enjoying WvW fights, i'm not sure.
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: Ok
    Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: Ok
    Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: Doesn't change much, since aegis is only for self.
    Sanctuary: Never used, idk how it's going to effect anything
    

    Mesmer

    Illusion of Life: I like the nerf, but don't like the skill overall. Since it's also only real use for mesmer in wvw group content these days, it makes it even worse. But overall it encourages passive play from mesmer, so that it's always in position to cast this (posibly precast as sometimes people die before that) and possibly play mirage (which feels miserable in group fights) for that dodge (and actual distortion) -> no real counterplay. Target is said to have improved, but it also fails because of terrain and stuff. Generaly i'd like this skill to be completely reworked as it's only used in wvw and there most mesmers i know don't really like it (but it is only thing that is really unique and usefull).
    Chaotic Interruption: No icd? Idk how this is going to pan out, but it can lead to some weird interactions. Weapon skills on mesmer kinda suck for wvw group fights, so idk, we'll see how much this is used, as when you need interupts you generally don't get them.
    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): Do not like the change as i have experience with arcane thievery
    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): Do not like the change as i have experience with arcane thievery
    

    Necromancer

    I'll address this in general. Might shift necros towards celestial with all the scalling buffs, but not sure. Still only 1 boon corrupt has been taken away, that is simply not enough to change much about scourge or bring alternatives to forefront. But i see that you see the problem with sand savant, so something might come up.

    Revenant

    Gaze of Darkness: Great, stealt his op, also alternative to scrapper for reveal
    Coalescence of Ruin: Have to test this to see how it's going to effect stuff, but i'm generally for it as it makes pirateship worse.
    

    Warrior

    I kinda like these changes, but are they enough to shift from from GS/hammer? You need tactics line (that you acknowlage needs some work) and a mainhand weapon, which is most likely going to be sword. It might work with rework of some tactics traits.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    The Problem with the Tactic trait line:

    At the Master slot, you only have 2 options.

    a) Empowered Allies.
    Which simply does nothing in a zerg fight. The dmg increase is not worth taking Tactic for.

    b) Shrug it off.

    The problem here is that is goes on cooldown the second a fight starts.
    That means all potentiel healing/condicleanse/stunbreak is wasted because you got hit by an auto attack on 1200 range.

    Now you have to wait for 25 seconds for a medicore effect.

    By that time, the fight will most likely be long over.

    Buff:
    Cooldown to 20s from 25.
    Condi Cleanse to a minimum of 2.
    Trigger: 3-4 Condis. (Depending of the number of conditions it cleanses)

    In the Grandmasterslot, again 2 options:

    a) Powerful Synergy.
    That trait only matterss in Guild Vs Guild fight with Smoke Fields (Stealth).

    b) Vigorous Shouts.
    Warrior has only 2 good Shouts.

    To the limit and Shake it off.
    Taking a grandmaster just for 2 skills, while one has an crazy long cd, is questionable.
    Especially for the medicore effect of Vigorous Shouts.

    The trait also has bad synergy with the shouts.

    To the Limit already gives you full adrenalin.

    And a heal that small on a 40s (traited) cd is not worth it.

    Vigorous Shouts would need a serious buff before i would even start to think about tactics.

  • Warriors should not have all that invulnerable to play around with without any downside of using it. Other professions with such skills removes your other skills whilst you are invulnereble. Like Mistform of the elixir but the Warrior can still use all his skills all whilst a whole 50 man zerg is beating him up and the zerg have to wait it all out. It simply do not work well with your policy of counter play. There is no punnishment for the Warrior he just gets several get out of jail cards whilst you have to count seconds and wait for it to run out.

    As for stab and the Guardian. I don't want anyone to mess around with stab again. As long as you keep on giving out all the cc to left and right in stacks and stacks you will have to keep stab were it is now. In my opinion if anything should be changed around stab then give it to other professions so that they will become viable as well. Like for example Tempest could share stab through auras and overload. This would help support Tempest to become more viable as support again. Firebrands simply outshine Tempest due to all the buffs it can share in tons and milions. Let other professions have it too.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    Hey and thanks again for letting the community take part in balancing the game!

    First off, It's very nice that you leaving aegis in Tome of Courage, it's the only aegis boon in the whole tome which would be odd if the tome lacked it. It will still give ppl the opportunity for a more interesting gameplay than just spamming 1st skill of the tome and leaving it.

    Next, I like the shout change. Sadly it wont change a lot in current meta and it's still a powerful utility. It gives 10 ppl a total cc immunity for major part of an encounter, since having stability in the start of fight is a deciding factor how the fight will go and probably end (of course assuming it wont be corrupted or stolen).

    I know we should mostly discuss the changes you make but I had an idea about shouts in general. I know some time ago there were few big updates about making less useful traits more useful without really nerfing the top picks we have today. What if the trait in honor line "Pure of Voice" additionally to reducing cd by 20% also increased the number of targets by 5 people? Of course that means nerfing "Stand your ground" back to 5 man (and also slighty nerfing "Feel my wrath" so it won't become too op in pve, but this would allow people to decide if they want to run "Force of will" for more hp and increased healing or this for support. Of course I don't expect this to be reviewed but if that idea helps in future changes I would be glad.

    Anyway most important thing about shout nerf is that it will still be picked cause its one of the best sources of stability since it has no cast time, it's not a stationary aoe and also has a lot of stacks. I agree with the nerf but to make ppl stop using it you would need to add similar skills to other classes best if those classes were the ones rarely picked in zergs so they also can find a purpose in it :)

  • TheWeirdoNik.6247TheWeirdoNik.6247 Member ✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.

    That's an extreme nerf, I think raising it a bit would be better. Maybe to 450 or so. I main engineer so the engineer section is very important to me

    Also, on the topic of engineer, I think there should be a turret rework. Like rework the Experimental Turrets trait to make it so instead of boons every 10 seconds its a unique buff given to everyone. It would make a Scrapper support even more important. You can also make it so at least the Rifle Turret's damage is based on your power damage, like Flame Turret's damage is based on your condition damage. You can also make it so you manually overcharge your turret and put a cooldown on it and make it so on the 2nd or 3rd overcharge, your turret overheats and explodes. Just a few changes to turrets that I think would make them more useful.

  • otto.5684otto.5684 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 I am not sure why do you keep saying the changes are WvW centric. They clearly impact all aspects of the game.

    So again FB, remove the aegis from ToC 5 not from 2. And let’s repeat this one more time, outside of massive zergs retaliation does NOTHING. Again, NOTHING. One more time: NOTHING. Cool? Please do not make skills do NOTHING. Which is actually what your suggestion to make ToC 2 become. No one will ever use that skill. And again, for a change aimed to nerf FB support this almost does nothing but hit FB dps sustainability with surgical precision.

    Sanctuary, one more time, even if it blocks a billion hits, no will use it. One more time, CUZ IT HAS 60 SEC CD. Please do not make useless changes. Either fix it or leave alone.

    Again, I do not agree with the chaotic interruption change. This keeps feeding into condi mirage worst design aspects. More ranged clones and this more AI passive gameplay.

    Warrior changes, nothing really new here. It is a good change, but without seeing additional changes to tactics we cannot make judgment on viability. And if there are no changes there, then warhorn changes are not going to matter.

    That changes to holo are good and long over due.

    Lastly, I really hope that your balance design is not based on two random Zerg mobs, uneven in number, in an unstructured environment using non-standardized gear slugging it out. You will never ever balance that kitten. And you seriously have to consider far more important aspect of balance like sPvP and group PvE.

  • Kylden Ar.3724Kylden Ar.3724 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:
    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    These seem good. Scrapper needed not quite so large a hit to HP. Holosmith still likely has a bit too much CC on low coldown.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.

    Might finally weaken the Healbrand meta, if not break it.

    Mesmer

    • Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    Because the old functionality with an internal cooldown added was too hard? Like 15 to 30 seconds, so you could try to decide when to trigger it?

    • Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    • Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    Yeah, if it's not point blank AoE you should always have to face the target.

    None of this fixes the fact you killed Chronomancer in WvW with IP removed from Baseline. Mesmer is still the only class that can have their profession resource killed by the enemy.

    Clones need to take and do ZERO damage unless triggered by shatter or Infinite Horizon. Phantasms should be invulnerable, but do their damage because they ARE your attack (people can't kill a Warriors Bulls Charge, just dodge/block it) and then turn into Clone ammo as usual.

    Clones could still pull AI aggro for you, but players would know to switch targets the second they saw "0" as the damage. Which is why I say ZERO damage and not invulnerable.

    Necromancer

    • Sand Savant: We've wanted to address the target cap issue with this trait in WvW for a while, however it is an incredibly gnarly problem because this is a large functional change that would need to be preserved between game modes. This was why the cooldown split was made on this trait originally. We hear you that the trait is an issue and we're working on it. This is a tough case to crack in a manner that does not leave one mode suffering due to the changes made for another.

    ALL MODES use the same Trait because it is simply that much BETTER than the other 2 Grandmaster options. Really easy fix is keep the cooldown and remove the Ammo property. YOU GET ONE BIG ONE with a long wait, or 3 smaller ones you can spam with other effects.

    Easy.

    Ranger

    • Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    That is not the source of the problem. The problem is Soulbeasts get too much power and utility from the ability to swap between a power pet and a utility/mobility pet.

    You need to roll out their 'tradeoff' and hint: It needs to be pet swap removed from Soulbeast.

    How many times we gotta tell you GRIND IS NOT CONTENT there ANet?

    Leader of Tyrian Adventure Corp [TACO], [RaW][TACO] Alliance, Kaineng.

  • Lan Deathrider.5910Lan Deathrider.5910 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Vova.2640 said:
    Most of these changes do look great!
    However, I do want to raise one point.

    Currently guardians are the only class that gives groups stability in a reliable manner. That means that no matter how many times you nerf them, they will still be needed.
    Please consider giving another class access to some stability they could share with the group.

    Nerfing Firebrand to the ground isnt gonna make things better, but giving a viable replacement that could substitute firebrands would be a much much better change.

    Best suggestion i can give here is to give the Elementalist train in earth that grands protection on auras (named Elemental Shielding) let it also give 2 stacks for stab for 3 seconds). This will make aura share tempest viable finally as it will be able to maintain stability on their party with auras.

    Or any other class/spec should be able to share some stability.

    Thank you for the changes.

    See my suggestion on WH4 giving Stability or Retaliation instead of Fury.

    @Leaa.2943 said:
    Warriors should not have all that invulnerable to play around with without any downside of using it. Other professions with such skills removes your other skills whilst you are invulnereble. Like Mistform of the elixir but the Warrior can still use all his skills all whilst a whole 50 man zerg is beating him up and the zerg have to wait it all out. It simply do not work well with your policy of counter play. There is no punnishment for the Warrior he just gets several get out of jail cards whilst you have to count seconds and wait for it to run out.

    As for stab and the Guardian. I don't want anyone to mess around with stab again. As long as you keep on giving out all the cc to left and right in stacks and stacks you will have to keep stab were it is now. In my opinion if anything should be changed around stab then give it to other professions so that they will become viable as well. Like for example Tempest could share stab through auras and overload. This would help support Tempest to become more viable as support again. Firebrands simply outshine Tempest due to all the buffs it can share in tons and milions. Let other professions have it too.

    This is because Endure Pain is only versus direct damage. Condi will still burn them down, that is the drawback. If you want it to have a different drawback then make it complete invulnerability like the other skills you mentioned.

  • @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    Ranger
    * Long Range Shot: Reduce the damage range of this skill from 0.7-0.9 to 0.6-0.8 in WvW only.

    If ranger is gonna be nerf further in WvW at least reduce the amount of reflects/ blocks on other classes (mainly firebrand in this case, ToC Chapter 3, 8x lul).

    As if ranger is not already useless in WvW when fighting outnumbered (talking about 2-3x larger than you are), when there are more reflects than my unblockable. When I can only hit something every 40s.

    I only use 1 unbockable so the previous nerfs to the other 2 unblockables didn't affect me at all ^^.

    It's also funny how all the squishy builds are the ones QQing about ranger auto atk doing 10k or more but ignoring the fact that weaver's fireball could do just as much to the same squishy target. How about hitting that ranger back only to find out that you can pop that ranger like a bubble too LOL.

  • Mesmer - Make Wells like Gyros in WvW and revert Signet of Inspiration back to boon share in WvW only. Make Mesmer Support Viable In WvW Again.

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    Good changes, though I think nerfing Illusion of Life is not a good idea. Mesmer don't really bring much besides portals to big groups anymore....

    In general we want to look at reducing both offensive and defensive potential as many have complained the power creep has left to a situation where the TTK is so low in a game mode that is very subject to lag.

  • @Boase.6204 said:
    Mesmer - Make Wells like Gyros in WvW and revert Signet of Inspiration back to boon share in WvW only. Make Mesmer Support Viable In WvW Again.

    Idk, Signet of inspiration was nerfed because of WvW so i dont know why they would bring it back lol

  • Absolutely wonderful to see that our feedback has been listened to!

    Again, as a mesmer player I can only really comment on those changes:

    • Thank you for not increasing the cooldown or reducing the duration of Illusion of Life, I do like the reduced invulnerability however as it becomes a much more skill-based "okay, a mesmer called illusion on comms, the second I get up I'm going to have to immediately dodge to safety", making it a true getaway card - given the cast actually goes off before you die due to the long cast time - and provided you have the skill to dodge rather than just be invulnerable on standing up. Both of which I feel are suitable counterbalances given the nature of the ability.
    • Chaotic Interruption still remains a potentially gamechanging trait for the reasons I mentioned in my previous post, scoring that interrupt at a critical moment could potentially allow you to make a final strike or escape.
    • No mention of the Chaos Storm changes from the previous thread, which solidifies its position as an area lockdown while still allowing opportunity for skillful escape without the oppressive effects of previous Chaotic Interruption. Thank you for not over-nerfing, and simply targeting the problematic trait.
    • Mantra line of sight changes seem more like bugfixes, however it is still quite sad to no longer be able to dissuade attackers with a Power Spike while running in the opposite direction.

    Thank you once again for listening to our feedback, definitely a positive step in the right direction.

    Eredon Terrace "Server Leader"

    Eredon Terrace Silver Knight
    [LM] Legendary Madness,
    [SB] Sanctus Bellatorum,
    [ETAS] Eredon Terrace Acclaim Society.

  • morrolan.9608morrolan.9608 Member ✭✭✭

    Nerf to purge gyro is unneeded with the change to antitoxin runes.

    The nerf to sneak gyro CD will have no effect because stealth is so strong it only needs to be on once. What is needed is anti stealth like detection pulse.

    Scourge and revenant damage will still be strong and needs to be nerfed with the overall nerfs to support.

  • No to the thief. Preparations are already bugged and you want to nerf the other damage outlet rather than backstab spam than we have. Put a 2s cooldown on it but not reduce the stacks - while at it please fix it where Seal Area active actually prevents people from leaping inside unprotected...heartseekers can still get in.

    also please fix things like Impacting Disruption not working while interupting skills with Seal Area, it only procs 1 time.

    • Would your gameplay change as a result? How?

    Yes.
    Micro: condition management will change either through picking different traits with the scrapper or change the team comp a bit. Immob gets stronger as a lock down tool. Mesmer becomes less appealing as a driving class but I don't know by how much.

    Macro: condition comps or celestial comps won't be dead out of the gate. I am leery of the change to stability stacks because it is such a fundamental pillar of making large fights possible. The time to kill looks like it will go down and will feel less punishing.

    • Do you feel these changes would improve or worsen the state of the game?

    Improve.

    • Are you looking forward to these potential changes? Why?

    Yes. They help tone down a good chunk of the over performing outliers. Sadly scourge stays.

    • What are your concerns and the consequences you expect with this set of changes?

    Anti toxin and scourge are both warping to the meta and in a way foils. Fixing one without fixing what makes scourge so polarizing makes me worried it will feel more oppressive. The nerf to barrier and damage is a nice step but it won't be meta changing.

    • Superior Rune of Antitoxin: Change it so that instead of increasing outgoing condition cleanses by one it instead increases incoming condition cleanses by one, thus only affecting the wielder, but allowing it to scale up with external cleanses.

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    This is what should be done to Scrapper to repair some of the damage that was done in the last nerf:

    • If you change the Stealth Gyro CD then think about giving back the old pre-nerf duration or affect more than 5 people. Adding the mass AoE Detection Pulse back is really the only stealth nerf needed as scrappers were hated for that ability pre nerf but please see below where to put it. (Not on Purge Gyro)
    • Detection Pulse should be added back to the F5 by default as the function gyro is mostly useless now as it dies in one shot or AoE from the enemy. I would rather have the F5 detection plus than the superspeed as the stealth counter is needed. Leave Chem Field alone as Detection Pulse makes no sense tied to Purge Gyro so please leave Purge Gyro alone.
    • Make Impact Savant directly tied with Healing Power. No healing power, <1% barrier. Please consider tying all barrier generating classes/specializations more directly to Healing Power as it is tiring being punished as a non meta scrapper with a -300 or -180 vit hit for meager barrier generation in return. This will also keep condi scrapper from becoming too strong if you make the change and Scrappers go balth/burning as they would have to invest in healing power for barrier and not run Viper/TB/etc.. (One stat set might still be a problem though)

    Antitoxin change is a good thing. Remember to keep in mind the boost that condi builds will see from this. (Scourge mainly)

    Please put the S back in Scrapper! (Because without it, we are in the ....)

  • I really appreciate you guys discussing your ideas / thoughts with us! One thing that I'm somewhat concerned about - gutting antitoxin + nerfing condi cleanse on scrapper / FB, along with making necessary boons (stab, as to a lesser extent aegis) harder to get is going to make corrupts a lot more impactful. One advantage that antitoxin brought to scrapper is that you could out cleanse corrupts, so purity of purpose didn't turn into a liability (by giving extra corruption fodder). This will also make boons harder to get, which will make corrupts even more potent. I wouldn't be surprised if you'd see a lot more groups that were FB+FB+Scrapper+Scourge+Scourge in every party, with bigger groups steam rolling over smaller groups that can't survive the corrupts.

  • FtoPScrub.5476FtoPScrub.5476 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 said:

    Engineer

    • Purge Gyro: Reduce the number of cleansing pulses from 5 to 3 in WvW. Pending the superior rune of antitoxin change, this may stay at 5 cleansing pulses.
    • Sneak Gyro: Increase the cooldown of this ability from 45 to 75 60 seconds in WvW.
    • Corona Burst: The existing split from PvP of reduced might gain is brought to WvW. Reduced the damage of this ability by 20% in PvP and WvW.
    • Holographic Shockwave: Reduced range from 600 to 300.
    • Impact Savant: See if there is a way to include condition damage on this trait globally. Reduce the vitality loss of this trait from 300 to 180 in WvW and PvP.
    • Chemical Field: This skill is replaced by Detection Pulse (from the old Sneak Gyro elite toolbelt) as the toolbelt skill for Purge Gyro.

    I cannot speak for Scrapper changes but these Holo nerfs are going to be really good for PvP. Even with these nerfs I still think Holo damage will be too high and spammy, but this isn't a call for changes so.

    Guardian

    • Stand Your Ground: Reduce the stacks of stability granted by this ability from 5 to 3 in WvW.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 5 - Unbroken Lines: This skill no longer grants aegis or retaliation.
    • Tome of Resolve, Chapter 2 - Radiant Recovery: The existing split from PvP of cleansing 2 conditions is brought to WvW as well. This ability would continue to cleanse 3 conditions in PvE.
    • Tome of Courage, Chapter 2 - Daring Challenge: This skill grants retaliation for 3 seconds instead of aegis.
    • Sanctuary: Increase number of enemies that can be knocked back by this skill from 10 to 20 before it expires.

    I main guardian and can say these nerfs will also improve the state of WvW and sPvP. Support FB will still be top tier support by far in those modes, even after nerf.

  • Illusion of Life: Increase the cooldown of this skill from 75 to 90 seconds in PvP & WvW and reduced the duration from 15 seconds to 8 seconds of its effect in PvP & WvW Reduce the invulnerability period on revived allies. Improve the smart targeting on this skill so it can't fail in big group situations where there is someone downed and lots of people near them.

    I can't comment too much on this skill, as I don't typically use it, but it seems fair.

    Chaotic Interruption: This trait has been re-worked and now reduces the cooldown of one of your weapon abilities that is already on cooldown by 5 seconds when you interrupt a foe.

    How would this work with weapons skills that are on cooldown but aren't currently on the active weapon? Either way, I love it, and I think it will be fun, and effective.

    Power Break (Mantra of Pain): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.
    Power Lock (Mantra of Distraction): This skill now requires you to face your target and respects line of sight.

    This is fair. No complaints. good job.

    Overall, I like the changes, but I do think that mesmer confusion application in sPvP and WvW needs to be looked at. It would be nice for example if mirage axes could do confusion damage again. I understand that this would require reworking confusion in some respect, but it is the signature condition of the mesmer, and I think it should play a starring role in mesmer pvp condition builds. Right now, torment seems to do more of the damage in sPvP, and be much more easily stacked.

  • @Lan Deathrider.5910 said:
    @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048

    Awesome the the feedback is being listened too! May I implore you again to reconsider to Fury on Charge with Quickbreathing traited? We have a great source of group Fury via For Great Justice already and adding it to Charge would be redundant.

    Can you consider instead Retaliation or Stability? Are the any changes planned for Shouts and Vigorous Shouts?

    Cosigned

    Please replace Fury for Retaliation or Stability on the Charge trait-boon.

    For Vigorous Shouts would it be possible to include a regeneration along with the heal?

    Also I see that Charge is now a blast-finisher, but the same is not stated for Call to Arms; did Call to Arms lose its blast-finisher capability?

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Superior Rune of Antitoxin was for sure over preforming in all game types but this may over nerf tempest ability to support clear. Its going to be a hard hit for the class / build.

    Any thoughts on say making on aura giving stronger boons like stab to ele? I would love to see Rock Solid become 1 stack of stab durian 2 sec on aura and 3 stacks of stab 5 sec duration on aura transmutation. I would also love to see transmutation giving more effects from ele trait line such as giving Zephyr's Boon aoe super speed on transmutation.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019
    1. Is there a point to increase gryo cd if you gonna add back detection pulse?
    2. In this heavy boonstrip balance, you still gonna nerf boons conversion on scrapper?
    3. In this heavy boonstrip balance, you still gonna nerf guardian and reduce the amount of boons we can get?
    4. Still not "fixing" the issue. As long enemies have more than you, even if just 10 more, you still gonna get rolled over just because they got more scourges and spellbreakers.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.