You can do raids with 0 experience, here s how I did it. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

You can do raids with 0 experience, here s how I did it.

Hex.8714Hex.8714 Member ✭✭
edited September 5, 2019 in Fractals, Dungeons, and Raids

Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especially with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

<1

Comments

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's the second part of step 3 that for most players sounds very much like the "???" before "Profit!"

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭

    When you wipe in a raid it take forever to start the fight again (this is a problem that stem from the number of people involved and can't be helped), that's why most people give up and say that "it's to hard". The more time you spend on a boss, the more you feel like you waste your time. Some people enjoy failure and call this challenge, most people with limited time at hand just prefer to say "it's too hard!" and turn themselve toward more "accessible" activity that don't give them the feeling of wasting their time.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    Tbh those people are already raiding.

  • Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.
    The problem is when someone fails an important mechanic or dies at one of these one-shot mechanics (like flamewall). Raids are difficult because of other people making mistakes.

    Commander, to ME!

  • Talindra.4958Talindra.4958 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    I play with 400 to 600 ping. at 1000 ping u cant excute any skills at all .. most skills are frozen
    I stop reading ur post when I get to third line :/

    Death is Energy [DIE] in EU
    Envoy's Herald, EAoA, CoZ, VitV, DD, SS, The Eternal, LNHB, Champion Magus, Champion Phantom, Wondrous Achiever etc.

  • @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.

    Uh... i have yet found a pug group that would let me do Cannons as a Chrono. Or Shrooms as a Chrono. Pugs refuse to let you do that when you are on a supportive role. You will need to do some mechanics as a dps player, so you better learn them.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.
    The problem is when someone fails an important mechanic or dies at one of these one-shot mechanics (like flamewall). Raids are difficult because of other people making mistakes.

    Some groups do have DPS do cannons.

    You don’t need to memorize the order they spawn although the pattern is simple enough to memorize. Normally we assign someone to the 1st and 3rd spawns and someone else to the 2nd and 4th. All they really need to do is watch the mini map and do every other cannon.

  • @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.

    Uh... i have yet found a pug group that would let me do Cannons as a Chrono. Or Shrooms as a Chrono. Pugs refuse to let you do that when you are on a supportive role. You will need to do some mechanics as a dps player, so you better learn them.

    I mean someone has to do it (DPS player), but there's a high chance to avoid this role.

    Commander, to ME!

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Antycypator.9874 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.

    Uh... i have yet found a pug group that would let me do Cannons as a Chrono. Or Shrooms as a Chrono. Pugs refuse to let you do that when you are on a supportive role. You will need to do some mechanics as a dps player, so you better learn them.

    I mean someone has to do it (DPS player), but there's a high chance to avoid this role.

    Are you eu or na?

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:anics
    step 5: pray for somehow finding a raid static or stick for ages in training raids. Cuz, you know, overwhelming majority of pug raids are "50+ KP or gtfo".
    But worry not! You always can get them by paying to these nice guys who occupied raid LFG with their oh so very helpful and totally not annoying sell ads.

    If you don't like the pug requirements make your own group with lower ones. But to be fair, finding GUILDS for whatever reason, not only for raid statics, is a hard process in the game as there is zero guild exposure anywhere outside of map chat.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭
    edited September 5, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    If you don't like the pug requirements make your own group with lower ones. But to be fair, finding GUILDS for whatever reason, not only for raid statics, is a hard process in the game as there is zero guild exposure anywhere outside of map chat.

    Oh, right, I forgot about this possibility, thanks. It needs a small correction tho, for reality sake
    step 5a: make your own raid group, preferably with 300+ LI/100+ KP requirements and get your free ride. Nobody is checking RL LI anyway.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Rednik.3809 said:

    @maddoctor.2738 said:
    If you don't like the pug requirements make your own group with lower ones. But to be fair, finding GUILDS for whatever reason, not only for raid statics, is a hard process in the game as there is zero guild exposure anywhere outside of map chat.

    Oh, right, I forgot about this possibility, thanks. It needs a small correction tho, for reality sake
    step 5a: make your own raid group, preferably with 300+ LI/100+ KP requirements and get your free ride. Nobody is checking RL LI anyway.

    Oh belive me after afew screw ups your low Li/kp will be exposed be ready for the leaving in droves mate.

  • Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    This is the only useful part of the post that actually help people. Just fake KP or hope Commander doesn't kick you.

    6x warrior/5xRanger/6x Revenant/6x Mesmer/5x Guardian/6x Thief/5x Engineer/5x Necromancer/5x Elementalist

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @Antycypator.9874 said:
    Playing as a DPS is super easy. If you do more DPS than support chrono, you're fine. If you're DPS player, you don't have to do mechanics, like cannons at Sabetha (I still don't know the pattern xD, I'm always avoiding this role), mushrooms at Sloth or pylons at Qadim 2.0. Just stack with others and deal damage. You have to know your rotation, but everything can be learned. Just spend some time with Golem.

    Uh... i have yet found a pug group that would let me do Cannons as a Chrono. Or Shrooms as a Chrono. Pugs refuse to let you do that when you are on a supportive role. You will need to do some mechanics as a dps player, so you better learn them.

    I mean someone has to do it (DPS player), but there's a high chance to avoid this role.

    Are you eu or na?

    EU

    Commander, to ME!

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Most of the entry barriers people keep comlaining about are self imposed. Something that shouldn't come as a surprise to anyone at this point. Especially if you have any experience running your own training raids or trying to get casual friends into raids. I could tell you an anecdote or two about players who were so convinced they play great builds and have top DPS performance and that golem training and reading guides was way beneath them just to be beaten by supports in Minstrel gear. All of this when they were actually given and provided with all of the help needed to make the raid a breeze.

    Keep teaching people how to fake LI and keep claiming LI linking is the only reason people "are not able to get into raids" all you like, we wouldn't see a requirement of 100 for the easiest of easy bosses if most of the new raiders actually bothered to go through step 1-4.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

    The rest of pve is ok . It is raid which sufferers lack of players. Maybe the avarage pvers need raid to be changed . Do it and maybe they will start raiding. Leave it like it is now and raid are doomed like they just are now.

    Let's be honest

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

    The rest of pve is ok . It is raid which sufferers lack of players. Maybe the avarage pvers need raid to be changed . Do it and maybe they will start raiding. Leave it like it is now and raid are doomed like they just are now.

    Let's be honest

    Then let raids be doomed.

    The problems caused with free loot from raids would far outweigh the problems caused from abandoning the content.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

    The rest of pve is ok . It is raid which sufferers lack of players. Maybe the avarage pvers need raid to be changed . Do it and maybe they will start raiding. Leave it like it is now and raid are doomed like they just are now.

    Let's be honest

    Interesting. Rest of PvE is OK from YOUR point of view. From mine (and all of my active guildmates), rest of pve is endless grind with 0 skill needed that basicaly plays itself. Raids might be doomed but the reason is not the lack of players but the fact that we need to wait 9 months minimum for new wing. And last wing was way too easy for most raiders to satisfy them until next raidwing if it is even coming.

    If it would be up to me, I would turn HoT dificulty back to relese and change the rest of the game too while we are at it. I am not asking for it because I know there are players that want it as it is. It is funny that (some) casual players dont treat raiders the same way as that.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Then let raids be doomed.

    The problems caused with free loot from raids would far outweigh the problems caused from abandoning the content.

    Raiders would rather raids be killed than stop gatekeeping. wow.

    What's wrong with "free loot from raids" anyways? Another thing that raiders can't use as a gatekeeping tool if the 'average player' had easier access to it than crafting???

    Sorry but this whole thread is just inane. The raiding community has made a set of hoops to jump through that literally no other game has while simultaneously telling everyone "raids aren't hard" and making up this mythical 'casual player' that has a build so bad that waiders can't beat their waids.

    Yall just like gatekeeping and acting like you're better than everyone else. Simple as that. Full Stop.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Then let raids be doomed.

    The problems caused with free loot from raids would far outweigh the problems caused from abandoning the content.

    Raiders would rather raids be killed than stop gatekeeping. wow.

    What's wrong with "free loot from raids" anyways? Another thing that raiders can't use as a gatekeeping tool if the 'average player' had easier access to it than crafting???

    Sorry but this whole thread is just inane. The raiding community has made a set of hoops to jump through that literally no other game has while simultaneously telling everyone "raids aren't hard" and making up this mythical 'casual player' that has a build so bad that waiders can't beat their waids.

    Yall just like gatekeeping and acting like you're better than everyone else. Simple as that. Full Stop.

    Reason?

    Because the moment raids are brought down to open world difficulty, the rewards would need to get scaled down to that too. You do realize that right?

    So the moment raids are as difficult as open world bosses, there would be no more ascended loot, no more exotic loot, there would be 1-2 loot bags and that's it. No access to legendary armor, unique skins, no nothing. Why? Because keeping those perks while making the content asinine easy would literally devolve this game at the very core.

    This has nothing to do with gate keeping but rather a rational approch to reward distribution. If you can't see that, your understanding of how rewards and this games economy and core reward structure works are lacking. But yes, let's just blame raiders for gate keeping their precious content.

    Think about this: what would happen if every world boss started dropping asceneded gear left and right? Once you've given that some thought and how it would affect this game in the short-, medium- and longterm, you might understand why raid reweards as they are now can't remain if raids are made easier.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Reason?

    Because the moment raids are brought down to open world difficulty, the rewards would need to get scaled down to that too. You do realize that right?

    So the moment raids are as difficult as open world bosses, there would be no more ascended loot, no more exotic loot, there would be 1-2 loot bags and that's it. No access to legendary armor, unique skins, no nothing. Why? Because keeping those perks while making the content asinine easy would literally devolve this game at the very core.

    This has nothing to do with gate keeping but rather a rational approch to reward distribution. If you can't see that, your understanding of how rewards and this games economy and core reward structure works are lacking. But yes, let's just blame raiders for gate keeping their precious content.

    It's already a common thread that 'raiding isn't hard' it's been said multiple times in this thread alone. But now you set the hypothetical argument that no one is suggesting, that raids become as easy as open world content.

    You can literally get ascended with crafting or by using your credit card if you're desperate. All arguments against reward distribution are moot.

    Personally I think it's asinine that you're allowed to keep people out of content by making such a convoluted system with 'training guilds' and kill points and LI.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Reason?

    Because the moment raids are brought down to open world difficulty, the rewards would need to get scaled down to that too. You do realize that right?

    So the moment raids are as difficult as open world bosses, there would be no more ascended loot, no more exotic loot, there would be 1-2 loot bags and that's it. No access to legendary armor, unique skins, no nothing. Why? Because keeping those perks while making the content asinine easy would literally devolve this game at the very core.

    This has nothing to do with gate keeping but rather a rational approch to reward distribution. If you can't see that, your understanding of how rewards and this games economy and core reward structure works are lacking. But yes, let's just blame raiders for gate keeping their precious content.

    It's already a common thread that 'raiding isn't hard' it's been said multiple times in this thread alone. But now you set the hypothetical argument that no one is suggesting, that raids become as easy as open world content.

    You can literally get ascended with crafting or by using your credit card if you're desperate. All arguments against reward distribution are moot.

    Personally I think it's asinine that you're allowed to keep people out of content by making such a convoluted system with 'training guilds' and kill points and LI.

    Crafting is not free. Using a credit card to acquire gold is not free. As a matter of fact, I'd wager a vast amount of players are not using their credit cards at all, hence why the gold-gem conversion rates explode every time there is desirable items on the gem store. The arguments against reward distribution are not moot because you say so or do not understand how rewards are an integral part of every game. Given the constant rebalances of open world farms (and other farms), it would seem the developers of this game agree.

    I did not setup any hypothetical. I was literally responding to this:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    So yes, from the standpoint of making raids as easy as T1 fractals, it would be a lot better to simply abandon the content from a perspective of what is best for the game.

    I'm not keeping players from content. If raids are sacled down, they are not raids any longer. They are then world bosses.

    Again, rewards for raids would not remain the same (and even can't remain the same) if the difficulty gets changed (or rather the access of players to those rewards). The rewards for raid content are designed with a certain percentage of the player base in mind (yes, that is a thing in reward ditribution). The moment theese rewards become accessible to all, they will get rescaled. The only question not easily answered is: how many people will then actually bother with this content then.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Reason?

    Because the moment raids are brought down to open world difficulty, the rewards would need to get scaled down to that too. You do realize that right?

    So the moment raids are as difficult as open world bosses, there would be no more ascended loot, no more exotic loot, there would be 1-2 loot bags and that's it. No access to legendary armor, unique skins, no nothing. Why? Because keeping those perks while making the content asinine easy would literally devolve this game at the very core.

    This has nothing to do with gate keeping but rather a rational approch to reward distribution. If you can't see that, your understanding of how rewards and this games economy and core reward structure works are lacking. But yes, let's just blame raiders for gate keeping their precious content.

    It's already a common thread that 'raiding isn't hard' it's been said multiple times in this thread alone. But now you set the hypothetical argument that no one is suggesting, that raids become as easy as open world content.

    You can literally get ascended with crafting or by using your credit card if you're desperate. All arguments against reward distribution are moot.

    Personally I think it's asinine that you're allowed to keep people out of content by making such a convoluted system with 'training guilds' and kill points and LI.

    I command raids quite often. I have many players join without LI (or with very few) and politely ask if they can join. And I never refused them. I explained the fight or ask them to watch a video if I had no time to explain. Usualy those players were doing well.
    We are not gatekeeping players away from raids. I dont care how much LI/kp or even which gear anyone has as long as he is as efective as the avarage player in the squad.

    I also had players that joined and pinged 250 Li, yet they had lower dps then me on chrono tank. Obviously I kicked him. Tell me again why I should play with him. If you give me a good reason why I should do it then I will guladly surrander.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

    The rest of pve is ok . It is raid which sufferers lack of players. Maybe the avarage pvers need raid to be changed . Do it and maybe they will start raiding. Leave it like it is now and raid are doomed like they just are now.

    Let's be honest

    Yes let's be honest. Raids don't suffer from a lack of players as much as the living world does. Have you been to Season 3 maps lately, like Ember Bay to see just how many play there? Honestly, what is wasted is those huge open world maps that get no players to play them after a few weeks. Meanwhile, even the oldest raids still get players running them. But I guess you are comparing how many are running Raids with how many are farming with their eyes closed at Istan, Auric Basin, Silverwastes or the other casual farm land. Compare the population of Raids with any other part of the game and you might figure out that Raids don't suffer from lack of players. At least compared to the more niche parts of the open world, or older maps, that are devoid of any players.

    1. Find a meta build
    2. Find a guild/static
    3. ???
    4. Profit!!!
  • @xenon.3264 said:
    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    According to that logic I could say: Most players are not the target demographic of sPVP, but Arenanet can simply change sPVP to let these players queue up for a deathmatch against NPCs so they can play it like PVE.
    Are you in favor of that idea? And do you think it will be received well by the game's playerbase?

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @xenon.3264 said:

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    @Shikaru.7618 said:

    @Hex.8714 said:
    Those people that are complaining that raids are too difficult and too inaccessible and elitist simply dont want to make any effort on their end and they just want to join raids with their open world pve build and expect to get carried. The truth is gw2 raids are extremly easy and can be completed with literally 1000 ping because theres very few one shot attacks that will insta kill you like in some other games, its just mini mechanics that you have to know to not wipe the group. Raids do not require much mechanical skill at all, so even " bad players" can complete them easely especailly with meta boon stacked comps + 2 healers, i repeat you dont need skill to do raids in gw2.

    So how do you get into raids with 0 experience? Well first of all you need to at least make yourself useful and pick a role that will help your group, joining raids isint much about you but about the group, how can you make yourself useful? The easiest role is DPS, you want to pick a meta build from snowcrows website and learn the rotation on the golem. Most classes have a viable dps build, if your class isint a top tier dps, it can surely have another role like boons/heals. Then you simply wait till a group asks for that specific role on the lfg. If you can multi class and gear up multiple chars you will find a group alot faster.

    Then you want to watch some video guides of boss encounters or if you are too lazy like me, you can join groups that say semi+ exp or dont ask for KP. Now listen to this, this is very important what im gonna say, it only takes literally about 3 wipes for you to learn all boss mechanics assuming you get it at least to 50%, 25% or 10% depending on the boss. The scary part is only the initial part when you re totally clueless, after 3 pulls you wont be clueless anymore, dont be afraid to join groups.

    What happens if you get kicked? Nothing happens, dont try to whisper the commander and dont be mad just join another group, as I said it only takes 2-3 pulls for you to learn. I rarely see people getting kicked, some people tell some total bs stories that I ve never seen myself of heard of. Ive literally played a DPS class with with some rare pieces for the first 3 weeks and only got kicked once because it was SH and I was playing power DPS instead of condi. Most grps wont kick you for bad dps, they will only kick if you wipe the group, like dropping poison on grp at matt or bombing group at dhum etc.

    Another easy way to get into raids is just to always keep an eye on lfg for training groups but you might have to wait a long time for that for the specific raid that you want, id suggest just joining the semi exp ones or the ones that dont ask for KP assuming you did some research about the mechanics.

    Then obviously people ask how do they find groups when they have the experience but dont have much KP. You can either be honest with the commander and tell them you are a good player and to give you a chance and if you mess up tell them to feel free to kick you out. Or you can use fake KP like alot of people do since lets be real nobody carries all boss tokens on all their characters. Id suggest using fake KP only if you can do close to SC benchmark and are a good player otherwise it will be too obvious, just be honest and try to not join super high KP grps until you have some or until you get more experience.

    So quick recap on how to get into raids with 0 experience:
    step 1: get rid of your open world pve build and find a meta raid build that you like on snowcrows website
    step 2: practice the dps rotation on the golem
    step 3: watch videos or guides of raid bosses then join semi exp/ training / non kp groups
    step 4: learn from your failures, as I said it will only take you 2-3 pulls to learn all boss mechanics

    Gw2 raids are easy, people are just lazy and dont want to adapt or change their build, obviously some players are just bad but they dont want to admit but the majority are just too lazy, I was even too lazy to watch any guides I would just join and hope for the best, it still ended up working because gw2 raids are a joke. So dont be afraid to try, theres nothing elite or hardcore about raids, the truth is hardcore players dont play this game. Have fun in raids.

    I agree that raids are easy. However you've literally just listed all the barriers people perceive in raids. Here's how casuals see your advice

    1. Change my build, what's wrong with my build? Its worked for me this far. I've beaten story and literally all open world with it. Its fine as is. I don't want to run some cookie cutter build someone else made.
    2. Sounds pretty boring to me. Let me fight the boss.
    3. Would rather just play the game.
    4. Raids are too hard. I've been fine with the game so far why are raids just gimmicks and cheese fests to create artificial difficulty?

    Those are actual responses I've heard on this forum.

    Then those players aren't the target demographic of raids and I'd honestly prefer not to have them in my group.

    I think OP is more talking about those "well i'd love to get into raiding but it's so hard"-kinda people.

    That's the point : .most of the players are not the demographic of the raids. They should simply change raid to let people just play them like a T1 fractal that is with any build

    Why?
    Should they also change each other part of pve so raiders dont die from too much sleep?

    The rest of pve is ok . It is raid which sufferers lack of players. Maybe the avarage pvers need raid to be changed . Do it and maybe they will start raiding. Leave it like it is now and raid are doomed like they just are now.

    Let's be honest

    Raids don't suffer from a lack of players. There's a ton of groups in LFG every week, especially on monday and weekends. There's a lot more stuff that's a lot emptier (looking at LW maps) than raids.

    The rest of PvE is boring. It literally plays itself and requires no skill. It's basically like "playing" one of those auto-clickers. Don't get me wrong a lot of players like that about an MMO, turning off your brain and just doing some mindless button-smashing for a few hours - nothing better than that on some days. But many players also enjoy actually challenging content, and this game has very little of that.

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    I also had players that joined and pinged 250 Li, yet they had lower dps then me on chrono tank. Obviously I kicked him. Tell me again why I should play with him. If you give me a good reason why I should do it then I will guladly surrander.

    Congratulations on being one of the few not gatekeeping, assuming everything you've said is true.

    But here you go. By kicking a player that you've deemed as bad, you've just added another drop in the bucket towards the slow bleeding death of the game. One player from one group may not seem a lot but this is happening on a more wide spread scale. Could that player not want to receive advice and become better, sure. But that is on them. If you kick someone without any attempt to better them, you're just strengthening the argument towards 'Raiders are elitist jerks'. That person behind the keyboard is a human being with feelings as well, and there is the chance that they just didn't know they were bad, despite supposedly linking kp.

    Q: "Why should I play with him (a 'bad' player)?"
    A: Cause you don't want to be the final slice in a death of a thousand cuts that bleeds raiding out for good.
    A2: I dunno, maybe cause you shouldn't want to be a jerk?

    Plus, it seems a lot of people really want to run support builds in this game... was his dps below chrono tank as an actual dps role?

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    I also had players that joined and pinged 250 Li, yet they had lower dps then me on chrono tank. Obviously I kicked him. Tell me again why I should play with him. If you give me a good reason why I should do it then I will guladly surrander.

    Congratulations on being one of the few not gatekeeping, assuming everything you've said is true.

    But here you go. By kicking a player that you've deemed as bad, you've just added another drop in the bucket towards the slow bleeding death of the game. One player from one group may not seem a lot but this is happening on a more wide spread scale. Could that player not want to receive advice and become better, sure. But that is on them. If you kick someone without any attempt to better them, you're just strengthening the argument towards 'Raiders are elitist jerks'. That person behind the keyboard is a human being with feelings as well, and there is the chance that they just didn't know they were bad, despite supposedly linking kp.

    Q: "Why should I play with him (a 'bad' player)?"
    A: Cause you don't want to be the final slice in a death of a thousand cuts that bleeds raiding out for good.
    A2: I dunno, maybe cause you shouldn't want to be a jerk?

    Plus, it seems a lot of people really want to run support builds in this game... was his dps below chrono tank as an actual dps role?

    I dont look at dps of supports (unless it is high). And I have no problems with polite honest new players. If you say to me that you are new I will be polite back. And even if we have to part ways (for example because of ley-line gliding on xera) I will not be a jerk about it.
    But If you ping LI and it is very likely that you are faking (as example above) I will not be nice.
    I have no problems with faking Li. But it is also responsibility. If you fake your experiance level then you should be at same skill level.

    There are many nice casual guilds that raid and dont gatekeep. Raiding is supposed to be guild content. Pugs are very, very, very bad experiance for new raiders.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    I also had players that joined and pinged 250 Li, yet they had lower dps then me on chrono tank. Obviously I kicked him. Tell me again why I should play with him. If you give me a good reason why I should do it then I will guladly surrander.

    Congratulations on being one of the few not gatekeeping, assuming everything you've said is true.

    But here you go. By kicking a player that you've deemed as bad, you've just added another drop in the bucket towards the slow bleeding death of the game. One player from one group may not seem a lot but this is happening on a more wide spread scale. Could that player not want to receive advice and become better, sure. But that is on them. If you kick someone without any attempt to better them, you're just strengthening the argument towards 'Raiders are elitist jerks'. That person behind the keyboard is a human being with feelings as well, and there is the chance that they just didn't know they were bad, despite supposedly linking kp.

    They deliberately faked an admission requirement AND underperformed. In other words, they basically:

    • lied about how good they could perform a specific task
    • were inept at practicing this task beforehand (there is sometimes players who fake LI but manage because they practice beforehand. As experienced lead you still notice, but let it slide until it/if it becomes an issue)
    • they wasted up to 9 other people's time without those players consent

    and now it's the raid leaders and groups fault? How backwards is this worldview of yours?

    Players who want advice or are willing to take advice are always welcome, but ideally not when other more experienced players are trying to get something done. These players are the main reason why raiders run practice raids or guild raids.

    Now if someone simply wants to get carried and only get the loot, there is even an option for them: pay some raid sellers but don't waste other people's time.

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    Q: "Why should I play with him (a 'bad' player)?"
    A: Cause you don't want to be the final slice in a death of a thousand cuts that bleeds raiding out for good.

    Supporting inept players is no solution to solve the raid participation problem. Letting someone stay who is unable or unwilling to perform does not solve the problem of him being useless. On the contrary, I have seen dozens of bad raiders feel all high and mighty because they've already killed a boss 1 or 2 times (while obviously getting carried heavily) being very resistant to advice.

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    A2: I dunno, maybe cause you shouldn't want to be a jerk?

    I'm fine with being a yerk to people when they intentionally deceive me or ignore what I was asking of them. My group, my rules.

    At the same time though, when I join someone elses group, I make sure to respect their desire or demands (which granted is not always the case for all players and also a reason for problems when elitists join casual runs and start complaining. Basically the flipside to this here)

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    Plus, it seems a lot of people really want to run support builds in this game... was his dps below chrono tank as an actual dps role?

    There is sufficient players who bring sub chrono support (or any support role) damage performance. As a matter of fact, if you don't practice your rotation or optimize your build, chances are near 100% your amazing open world build and brilliant players skills combined with lack of boss mechanic understanding will place you right at the bottom of the pack. I've seen players do 3k dps (on a damage slot) on Vale Guardian (not a training run) get carried by a team where the average top dps was 15-20k. My polite remark at the end about congratulating the players on their free kill and subsequent removal from group was never met with understanding. The best I ever got was someone in whisper to ask how he could improve, which I would obviously explain or make out some time later after the raid if he wanted.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    They deliberately faked an admission requirement AND underperformed. In other words, they basically:

    • lied about how good they could perform a specific task
    • were inept at practicing this task beforehand (there is sometimes players who fake LI but manage because they practice beforehand. As experienced lead you still notice, but let it slide until it/if it becomes an issue)
    • they wasted up to 9 other people's time without those players consent

    This is mostly yalls fault in the first place by perpetuating a system that doesn't let people in, forcing people to lie to get their foot in the door, but We were under the assumption that this person wasn't lying in this scenario.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    and now it's the raid leaders and groups fault? How backwards is this worldview of yours?

    If I'm told I have to take the responsibility of 10 people to start my own raid because there are none available for new players, you have to take responsibility for your own gatekeeping groups. Fair is fair.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Players who want advice or are willing to take advice are always welcome, but ideally not when other more experienced players are trying to get something done. These players are the main reason why raiders run practice raids or guild raids.

    "When the big boys are trying to play, yall can shove off and eat scraps." except the big boys are never done. Yall take your share every week and never give back. Stop postulating good intent when its obvious that there's simply not enough effort put into helping people get into raids.

    Now if someone simply wants to get carried and only get the loot, there is even an option for them: pay some raid sellers but don't waste other people's time.

    You're so focused on the efficiency of getting your own loot that you actually recommend raid selling. Disgusting.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Supporting inept players is no solution to solve the raid participation problem. Letting someone stay who is unable or unwilling to perform does not solve the problem of him being useless. On the contrary, I have seen dozens of bad raiders feel all high and mighty because they've already killed a boss 1 or 2 times (while obviously getting carried heavily) being very resistant to advice.

    Supporting inept players is the only way you get good players. Everyone is inept at the start. No one pops out the womb raiding Grenth.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm fine with being a yerk to people when they intentionally deceive me or ignore what I was asking of them. My group, my rules.

    At the same time though, when I join someone elses group, I make sure to respect their desire or demands (which granted is not always the case for all players and also a reason for problems when elitists join casual runs and start complaining. Basically the flipside to this here)

    I do the same, which is exactly why I can't get any runs. No EXP, no proof, no runs. I'm still not ok with being a jerk to people over a video game.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    There is sufficient players who bring sub chrono support (or any support role) damage performance. As a matter of fact, if you don't practice your rotation or optimize your build, chances are near 100% your amazing open world build and brilliant players skills combined with lack of boss mechanic understanding will place you right at the bottom of the pack. I've seen players do 3k dps (on a damage slot) on Vale Guardian (not a training run) get carried by a team where the average top dps was 15-20k. My polite remark at the end about congratulating the players on their free kill and subsequent removal from group was never met with understanding. The best I ever got was someone in whisper to ask how he could improve, which I would obviously explain or make out some time later after the raid if he wanted.

    Considering that dps meters outside of the training golem aren't part of the game and are third party software, I don't think you should be allowed to use it as a litmus test for 'bad' players. You should only be caring if the content is completed. Saying that 'People doing 15k dps are good' and 'people doing 4k dps are bad' is inconsequential if you're beating the content. But again, raiders seem to predominantly care about efficiency in getting their loot. It may just be a taste thing but if I could guarantee a kill every week with 20 minute long fights of everyone wearing bunker gear vs berserker wipefests but you only had to survive for 5 minutes, I'd take the bunker every time. Dead dps do no dps.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    They deliberately faked an admission requirement AND underperformed. In other words, they basically:

    • lied about how good they could perform a specific task
    • were inept at practicing this task beforehand (there is sometimes players who fake LI but manage because they practice beforehand. As experienced lead you still notice, but let it slide until it/if it becomes an issue)
    • they wasted up to 9 other people's time without those players consent

    This is mostly yalls fault in the first place by perpetuating a system that doesn't let people in, forcing people to lie to get their foot in the door, but We were under the assumption that this person wasn't lying in this scenario.

    There’s nothing wrong with players choosing who they want to group with to ensure their personal time is not wasted. If you played raids with people that know the encounters versus those that do not then you’d know there’s a very large difference. Raid encounters that could be cleared on the first attempt has a very high chance of taking multiple attempts to complete or even the possibility of not completing it altogether.

    Many players do training raids to help others. Join these. Or create your own group with your own restrictions or lack of restrictions. Not really any different from other group requirements elsewhere in the game.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Players who want advice or are willing to take advice are always welcome, but ideally not when other more experienced players are trying to get something done. These players are the main reason why raiders run practice raids or guild raids.

    "When the big boys are trying to play, yall can shove off and eat scraps." except the big boys are never done. Yall take your share every week and never give back. Stop postulating good intent when its obvious that there's simply not enough effort put into helping people get into raids.

    That’s a bit of an entitled statement to make. You have no right to dictate how players form their own groups just as they have no right to dictate how you form your own. They are not required to carry you. They are not required to train you.

    Now if someone simply wants to get carried and only get the loot, there is even an option for them: pay some raid sellers but don't waste other people's time.

    You're so focused on the efficiency of getting your own loot that you actually recommend raid selling. Disgusting.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Supporting inept players is no solution to solve the raid participation problem. Letting someone stay who is unable or unwilling to perform does not solve the problem of him being useless. On the contrary, I have seen dozens of bad raiders feel all high and mighty because they've already killed a boss 1 or 2 times (while obviously getting carried heavily) being very resistant to advice.

    Supporting inept players is the only way you get good players. Everyone is inept at the start. No one pops out the womb raiding Grenth.

    Which is what training runs are for. Players are not obligated to train every player that wants to do raids every time they play. Many have limited time every week and cannot afford the downtime from doing this.

    It’s on those players still learning to make the effort to do so.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm fine with being a yerk to people when they intentionally deceive me or ignore what I was asking of them. My group, my rules.

    At the same time though, when I join someone elses group, I make sure to respect their desire or demands (which granted is not always the case for all players and also a reason for problems when elitists join casual runs and start complaining. Basically the flipside to this here)

    I do the same, which is exactly why I can't get any runs. No EXP, no proof, no runs. I'm still not ok with being a jerk to people over a video game.

    Create your own group. People setting their own requirements who they want to play with is not “being a jerk”. “Being a jerk” would be demonizing them and making them waste their precious time to train and/or carry others.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    There is sufficient players who bring sub chrono support (or any support role) damage performance. As a matter of fact, if you don't practice your rotation or optimize your build, chances are near 100% your amazing open world build and brilliant players skills combined with lack of boss mechanic understanding will place you right at the bottom of the pack. I've seen players do 3k dps (on a damage slot) on Vale Guardian (not a training run) get carried by a team where the average top dps was 15-20k. My polite remark at the end about congratulating the players on their free kill and subsequent removal from group was never met with understanding. The best I ever got was someone in whisper to ask how he could improve, which I would obviously explain or make out some time later after the raid if he wanted.

    Considering that dps meters outside of the training golem aren't part of the game and are third party software, I don't think you should be allowed to use it as a litmus test for 'bad' players. You should only be caring if the content is completed. Saying that 'People doing 15k dps are good' and 'people doing 4k dps are bad' is inconsequential if you're beating the content. But again, raiders seem to predominantly care about efficiency in getting their loot. It may just be a taste thing but if I could guarantee a kill every week with 20 minute long fights of everyone wearing bunker gear vs berserker wipefests but you only had to survive for 5 minutes, I'd take the bunker every time. Dead dps do no dps.

    A DPS that does 4K DPS is getting carried and likely failing mechanics. There are also DPS checks which could fail with enough people doing poor damage. Berserker wipe fests only occur when people fail mechanics.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    They deliberately faked an admission requirement AND underperformed. In other words, they basically:

    • lied about how good they could perform a specific task
    • were inept at practicing this task beforehand (there is sometimes players who fake LI but manage because they practice beforehand. As experienced lead you still notice, but let it slide until it/if it becomes an issue)
    • they wasted up to 9 other people's time without those players consent

    This is mostly yalls fault in the first place by perpetuating a system that doesn't let people in, forcing people to lie to get their foot in the door, but We were under the assumption that this person wasn't lying in this scenario.

    Actually no we were not. The scenario presented was the person was performing terribly. As such, they were lying.

    I even accomodated for people who were lying and performing okayish, which most often get to stay until they become a burdern and danger to the groups target of clearing the content.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    and now it's the raid leaders and groups fault? How backwards is this worldview of yours?

    If I'm told I have to take the responsibility of 10 people to start my own raid because there are none available for new players, you have to take responsibility for your own gatekeeping groups. Fair is fair.

    I do. Hence why I have no problem in removing said player and replacing him because my role as group leader is to ensure the groups success at the given objective.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Players who want advice or are willing to take advice are always welcome, but ideally not when other more experienced players are trying to get something done. These players are the main reason why raiders run practice raids or guild raids.

    "When the big boys are trying to play, yall can shove off and eat scraps." except the big boys are never done. Yall take your share every week and never give back. Stop postulating good intent when its obvious that there's simply not enough effort put into helping people get into raids.

    I have very likely lead more training raids and helped more players in this game both improve and get better at raids than you. All you are doing is projecting you own anger and perceived incorrect notions onto an entire part of the players base. Sadly you don't even notice how much prejudice you have which given you have no experiance with the content, says a lot about your character. But yes, it is easier to blame others for ones own shortcommings.

    So far, thousands of players have successfully started raiding. Some have posted on these forums of how they managed. Most have done so the same way: joined training runs or a training guild and improved from there.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Now if someone simply wants to get carried and only get the loot, there is even an option for them: pay some raid sellers but don't waste other people's time.

    You're so focused on the efficiency of getting your own loot that you actually recommend raid selling. Disgusting.

    No, I am giving you a possibility which allows someone with your mindset to get raid rewards. That does not mean I condone or enjoy the fact there are raid sellers.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Supporting inept players is no solution to solve the raid participation problem. Letting someone stay who is unable or unwilling to perform does not solve the problem of him being useless. On the contrary, I have seen dozens of bad raiders feel all high and mighty because they've already killed a boss 1 or 2 times (while obviously getting carried heavily) being very resistant to advice.

    Supporting inept players is the only way you get good players. Everyone is inept at the start. No one pops out the womb raiding Grenth.

    Yes, and the raid community does this at the correct places, at the correct times and with hopefully most often the correct approach. Tell me, how many players have you helped in this game succeed at content? Besides complaining on the forums.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm fine with being a yerk to people when they intentionally deceive me or ignore what I was asking of them. My group, my rules.

    At the same time though, when I join someone elses group, I make sure to respect their desire or demands (which granted is not always the case for all players and also a reason for problems when elitists join casual runs and start complaining. Basically the flipside to this here)

    I do the same, which is exactly why I can't get any runs. No EXP, no proof, no runs. I'm still not ok with being a jerk to people over a video game.

    So you are incapabale of understanding how training runs and guilds work nor are you able to join or find some. Sorry to hear. Worked wonders for many players I've had in my training guilds and runs, or for many who have shared their experiences. Don't blame others for something you can't do, especially when other's have succeeded where you seem to not be able to. Just maybe, this one is on you.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    There is sufficient players who bring sub chrono support (or any support role) damage performance. As a matter of fact, if you don't practice your rotation or optimize your build, chances are near 100% your amazing open world build and brilliant players skills combined with lack of boss mechanic understanding will place you right at the bottom of the pack. I've seen players do 3k dps (on a damage slot) on Vale Guardian (not a training run) get carried by a team where the average top dps was 15-20k. My polite remark at the end about congratulating the players on their free kill and subsequent removal from group was never met with understanding. The best I ever got was someone in whisper to ask how he could improve, which I would obviously explain or make out some time later after the raid if he wanted.

    Considering that dps meters outside of the training golem aren't part of the game and are third party software, I don't think you should be allowed to use it as a litmus test for 'bad' players. You should only be caring if the content is completed. Saying that 'People doing 15k dps are good' and 'people doing 4k dps are bad' is inconsequential if you're beating the content. But again, raiders seem to predominantly care about efficiency in getting their loot. It may just be a taste thing but if I could guarantee a kill every week with 20 minute long fights of everyone wearing bunker gear vs berserker wipefests but you only had to survive for 5 minutes, I'd take the bunker every time. Dead dps do no dps.

    Ah the good old: if the content gets completed, who cares who did how much of the lifting.

    You enjoy lumping all raiders together both in skill and approach to the game. How very sad. Suffice to say, there is tons of raid groups of less or medium or even advanced raiders which invest weekly work into getting their clears, and most of them do not full clear. My one casual raid group for example spent 4 weeks in trying to clear quadim the peerless until they succeeded.

    Here is a basic fact: if every player did 4k damage, the boss would not have died. There is a threshhold of required, desired and ideal performance (notice how I used those terms before?). What the values for those are is dependant on the raid group and experience level. Suffice to say, my monday full clear group performs far and above what my casual raid guild groups do and those perform far above what training runs do (or are required from players).

    Here is where you are: bottom of the barrel and useless. Get into a training run or guild and start improving. No one else is going to do that for you.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    They deliberately faked an admission requirement AND underperformed. In other words, they basically:

    • lied about how good they could perform a specific task
    • were inept at practicing this task beforehand (there is sometimes players who fake LI but manage because they practice beforehand. As experienced lead you still notice, but let it slide until it/if it becomes an issue)
    • they wasted up to 9 other people's time without those players consent

    This is mostly yalls fault in the first place by perpetuating a system that doesn't let people in, forcing people to lie to get their foot in the door, but We were under the assumption that this person wasn't lying in this scenario.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    and now it's the raid leaders and groups fault? How backwards is this worldview of yours?

    If I'm told I have to take the responsibility of 10 people to start my own raid because there are none available for new players, you have to take responsibility for your own gatekeeping groups. Fair is fair.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Players who want advice or are willing to take advice are always welcome, but ideally not when other more experienced players are trying to get something done. These players are the main reason why raiders run practice raids or guild raids.

    "When the big boys are trying to play, yall can shove off and eat scraps." except the big boys are never done. Yall take your share every week and never give back. Stop postulating good intent when its obvious that there's simply not enough effort put into helping people get into raids.

    Now if someone simply wants to get carried and only get the loot, there is even an option for them: pay some raid sellers but don't waste other people's time.

    You're so focused on the efficiency of getting your own loot that you actually recommend raid selling. Disgusting.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    Supporting inept players is no solution to solve the raid participation problem. Letting someone stay who is unable or unwilling to perform does not solve the problem of him being useless. On the contrary, I have seen dozens of bad raiders feel all high and mighty because they've already killed a boss 1 or 2 times (while obviously getting carried heavily) being very resistant to advice.

    Supporting inept players is the only way you get good players. Everyone is inept at the start. No one pops out the womb raiding Grenth.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    I'm fine with being a yerk to people when they intentionally deceive me or ignore what I was asking of them. My group, my rules.

    At the same time though, when I join someone elses group, I make sure to respect their desire or demands (which granted is not always the case for all players and also a reason for problems when elitists join casual runs and start complaining. Basically the flipside to this here)

    I do the same, which is exactly why I can't get any runs. No EXP, no proof, no runs. I'm still not ok with being a jerk to people over a video game.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    There is sufficient players who bring sub chrono support (or any support role) damage performance. As a matter of fact, if you don't practice your rotation or optimize your build, chances are near 100% your amazing open world build and brilliant players skills combined with lack of boss mechanic understanding will place you right at the bottom of the pack. I've seen players do 3k dps (on a damage slot) on Vale Guardian (not a training run) get carried by a team where the average top dps was 15-20k. My polite remark at the end about congratulating the players on their free kill and subsequent removal from group was never met with understanding. The best I ever got was someone in whisper to ask how he could improve, which I would obviously explain or make out some time later after the raid if he wanted.

    Considering that dps meters outside of the training golem aren't part of the game and are third party software, I don't think you should be allowed to use it as a litmus test for 'bad' players. You should only be caring if the content is completed. Saying that 'People doing 15k dps are good' and 'people doing 4k dps are bad' is inconsequential if you're beating the content. But again, raiders seem to predominantly care about efficiency in getting their loot. It may just be a taste thing but if I could guarantee a kill every week with 20 minute long fights of everyone wearing bunker gear vs berserker wipefests but you only had to survive for 5 minutes, I'd take the bunker every time. Dead dps do no dps.

    So the people who organize training runs, make guides and builds to more easiliy clear raids are being jerks and don't do enough to let people join raids because?
    They are jerks because?

  • I have a question... how do I get to this training golem?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Abyssisis.3971 said:
    I have a question... how do I get to this training golem?

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Special_Forces_Training_Area

  • Abyssisis.3971Abyssisis.3971 Member ✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    It’s locked saying I need to be in a raid squad to enter...

    Edit. Figured it out

  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    @yusayu.3629 said:

    Raids don't suffer from a lack of players.

    this must be the reason why this forum and reddit is full of thread on "hot to start raiding" "join raid" "rading is not that hard" "plz raid for the love of god"

    so if there is no lack of player all those who are leaving are pointless and all that noise was just useless.

    listen, i do not care if ppl raids or not . everyone can and should have each own. i just find terrible that part of the content is locked out for most players while it could have easily been set with different difficutly and let everyone have fun.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I have very likely lead more training raids and helped more players in this game both improve and get better at raids than you. All you are doing is projecting you own anger and perceived incorrect notions onto an entire part of the players base. Sadly you don't even notice how much prejudice you have which given you have no experiance with the content, says a lot about your character. But yes, it is easier to blame others for ones own shortcommings.

    So far, thousands of players have successfully started raiding. Some have posted on these forums of how they managed. Most have done so the same way: joined training runs or a training guild and improved from there.

    If you're so offended at being talked to as if you're part of the problem, -if you aren't- why can't you recognize I'm not talking about you and move on?
    Ahh yes, because you like making personal attacks on people you disagree with. Definitely not toxic at all.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, and the raid community does this at the correct places, at the correct times and with hopefully most often the correct approach. Tell me, how many players have you helped in this game succeed at content? Besides complaining on the forums.

    Well considering the current raiding and fractal setup won't allow me to join, I've spent a majority of my time running support builds around open world, world bosses, answering help calls for hero points and bounties. It's kinda the most I can do without friends, a guild, or supporting raid sellers. I do what I can.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So you are incapabale of understanding how training runs and guilds work nor are you able to join or find some. Sorry to hear. Worked wonders for many players I've had in my training guilds and runs, or for many who have shared their experiences. Don't blame others for something you can't do, especially when other's have succeeded where you seem to not be able to. Just maybe, this one is on you.

    I'm not incapable of understanding, thanks for the personal attack again. Really proving your point that raiders aren't elitist jerks. I've jumped through the hoops, I've waited in discord lobbies, I paid my dues and you're still blaming me. Just because you have a handful of 'success stories' just means there's likely many more people who dropped this stuff like a hot potato and moved on. Just because other people are willing to do your 'my way or the highway' mentality, doesn't mean I'm willing to compromise my morals just to be your raid slave. Everyone deserves to play the content if they wish, not just who raiders allow in. Also by your logic, there must be more people getting constantly screwed by the current system since I'm posting about my terrible relationship with it. Maybe this one is actually on you.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Here is where you are: bottom of the barrel and useless. Get into a training run or guild and start improving. No one else is going to do that for you.

    Lookit that! Another personal attack, wow. :3c You really can't help yourself, can you? So rude.
    Yes it's absolutely my fault that I've tried it your way many times and here I am still with no raid experience. Not at all any responsibility of the training guilds letting people fall through the cracks and not doing what they are constantly getting advertised and praised for doing.

    But who cares, you're not going to read this and just respond with more lazy personal attacks.

  • @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I have very likely lead more training raids and helped more players in this game both improve and get better at raids than you. All you are doing is projecting you own anger and perceived incorrect notions onto an entire part of the players base. Sadly you don't even notice how much prejudice you have which given you have no experiance with the content, says a lot about your character. But yes, it is easier to blame others for ones own shortcommings.

    So far, thousands of players have successfully started raiding. Some have posted on these forums of how they managed. Most have done so the same way: joined training runs or a training guild and improved from there.

    If you're so offended at being talked to as if you're part of the problem, -if you aren't- why can't you recognize I'm not talking about you and move on?
    Ahh yes, because you like making personal attacks on people you disagree with. Definitely not toxic at all.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, and the raid community does this at the correct places, at the correct times and with hopefully most often the correct approach. Tell me, how many players have you helped in this game succeed at content? Besides complaining on the forums.

    Well considering the current raiding and fractal setup won't allow me to join, I've spent a majority of my time running support builds around open world, world bosses, answering help calls for hero points and bounties. It's kinda the most I can do without friends, a guild, or supporting raid sellers. I do what I can.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So you are incapabale of understanding how training runs and guilds work nor are you able to join or find some. Sorry to hear. Worked wonders for many players I've had in my training guilds and runs, or for many who have shared their experiences. Don't blame others for something you can't do, especially when other's have succeeded where you seem to not be able to. Just maybe, this one is on you.

    I'm not incapable of understanding, thanks for the personal attack again. Really proving your point that raiders aren't elitist jerks. I've jumped through the hoops, I've waited in discord lobbies, I paid my dues and you're still blaming me. Just because you have a handful of 'success stories' just means there's likely many more people who dropped this stuff like a hot potato and moved on. Just because other people are willing to do your 'my way or the highway' mentality, doesn't mean I'm willing to compromise my morals just to be your raid slave. Everyone deserves to play the content if they wish, not just who raiders allow in. Also by your logic, there must be more people getting constantly screwed by the current system since I'm posting about my terrible relationship with it. Maybe this one is actually on you.

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Here is where you are: bottom of the barrel and useless. Get into a training run or guild and start improving. No one else is going to do that for you.

    Lookit that! Another personal attack, wow. :3c You really can't help yourself, can you? So rude.
    Yes it's absolutely my fault that I've tried it your way many times and here I am still with no raid experience. Not at all any responsibility of the training guilds letting people fall through the cracks and not doing what they are constantly getting advertised and praised for doing.

    But who cares, you're not going to read this and just respond with more lazy personal attacks.

    Maybe he is just tired explaining something over and over. But from the look at your other responses, you are atacking too.
    I dont know what to tell you, I started raiding 1,5 years ago at dentis waiting room. At that moment I decided that I want to give raiding a shot, typed "how to start raiding gw2" in google, pressed first entry, joined discord and I was raiding that evening. Took me 5 minutes maximum to find that discord and ask about things I needed.
    I thing there is nothing wrong with elitism (If I understand the word correctly)
    "Elitist" are not gatekeeping anyone out of raids but out of their squad. I see no problem there.
    And I still have to see one argument why fun of 9 players is less important then fun of 1 player.

  • Vinceman.4572Vinceman.4572 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:
    Well considering the current raiding and fractal setup won't allow me to join, I've spent a majority of my time running support builds around open world, world bosses, answering help calls for hero points and bounties. It's kinda the most I can do without friends, a guild, or supporting raid sellers. I do what I can.

    If your support builds are so nice and supporting people would actually be glad to have you in their squad. The fun part is support healing tempest or druid could be played in exotics for years so from that point of view raiding is even more including than high level fractals where you need ascended stuff due to agony infusions.
    In terms of fractals there is no "current setup" if you just want to play fractals. All you have to do is open your own group and advertise like "fractal xyz - chilled run & have fun - support class already here" to let people know that another support isn't needed. As a veteran fractal player since years I can tell you it worked in the past and it's still working. This statement can only result from somebody who is either lying or trying to get into the "juicy groups" in which people want to be fast & efficient. Those have a right to demand certain classes, builds and experience so that they can get through stuff they mastered for years/months. Fractals are 5 men content so your burden is more impactful with 20% than raids with 10%. If you can't carry your weight in such special groups don't join them at the start of your fractal career. Do it as we did and learn & master the fractals. Play them a lot so you know all basic stuff in there by heart. It's not very much to know but once you're experienced it'll be an easy routine to get them done. But it needs practice, you can't expect to execute everything properly from the start and also not to be carried by others - at least not in regular T4s where people mostly need all 5 to play their part.

    I'm not incapable of understanding, thanks for the personal attack again. Really proving your point that raiders aren't elitist jerks. I've jumped through the hoops, I've waited in discord lobbies, I paid my dues and you're still blaming me. Just because you have a handful of 'success stories' just means there's likely many more people who dropped this stuff like a hot potato and moved on. Just because other people are willing to do your 'my way or the highway' mentality, doesn't mean I'm willing to compromise my morals just to be your raid slave. Everyone deserves to play the content if they wish, not just who raiders allow in. Also by your logic, there must be more people getting constantly screwed by the current system since I'm posting about my terrible relationship with it. Maybe this one is actually on you.

    Bello, you are barking too loud! I know from a fact that raiding via communities & discords is doable to a very good degree even though people won't kill every existent raid boss with them. There are very active training discords that will get you very much experience and nowadays easy kills of the easiest bosses (wing 4 for example). Lots of people could manage it in the past so why couldn't you. You tell us others ("elitist raiders") are the problem but when I learned one thing from gaming forums it's that if somebody cannot make it personally but others can it's most likely due to the behavior of this single person. But yeah, keep blaming the elitist raiders, that'll help you. At least helping to get over the anger - maybe.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    I have very likely lead more training raids and helped more players in this game both improve and get better at raids than you. All you are doing is projecting you own anger and perceived incorrect notions onto an entire part of the players base. Sadly you don't even notice how much prejudice you have which given you have no experiance with the content, says a lot about your character. But yes, it is easier to blame others for ones own shortcommings.

    So far, thousands of players have successfully started raiding. Some have posted on these forums of how they managed. Most have done so the same way: joined training runs or a training guild and improved from there.

    If you're so offended at being talked to as if you're part of the problem, -if you aren't- why can't you recognize I'm not talking about you and move on?
    Ahh yes, because you like making personal attacks on people you disagree with. Definitely not toxic at all.

    Personal attacks? Go read through your own responses on this topic. I'm not offended by any personal attacks, you don't know me. I'm offended by your baseless overgeneralization of an entire part of the playerbase which, even after repeated explaining to you how some of the most active of those players are giving their all to help others, you continually paint as part of the problem.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Yes, and the raid community does this at the correct places, at the correct times and with hopefully most often the correct approach. Tell me, how many players have you helped in this game succeed at content? Besides complaining on the forums.

    Well considering the current raiding and fractal setup won't allow me to join, I've spent a majority of my time running support builds around open world, world bosses, answering help calls for hero points and bounties. It's kinda the most I can do without friends, a guild, or supporting raid sellers. I do what I can.

    If you are unable to find friends, a guild or people to play with, that is a personal issue. It certainly is not impossible, the game is still very active in that regard and guilds are constantly recruiting players. Using the "I know no one" card doesn't fly. Many new players knew no one. I didn't know any of my guild or raid members before I joined the guild.

    Now if you have problems socializing or social anxiety, that could be more difficult. Yet even in this scnario there is guilds who have such members.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    So you are incapabale of understanding how training runs and guilds work nor are you able to join or find some. Sorry to hear. Worked wonders for many players I've had in my training guilds and runs, or for many who have shared their experiences. Don't blame others for something you can't do, especially when other's have succeeded where you seem to not be able to. Just maybe, this one is on you.

    I'm not incapable of understanding, thanks for the personal attack again. Really proving your point that raiders aren't elitist jerks. I've jumped through the hoops, I've waited in discord lobbies, I paid my dues and you're still blaming me. Just because you have a handful of 'success stories' just means there's likely many more people who dropped this stuff like a hot potato and moved on. Just because other people are willing to do your 'my way or the highway' mentality, doesn't mean I'm willing to compromise my morals just to be your raid slave. Everyone deserves to play the content if they wish, not just who raiders allow in. Also by your logic, there must be more people getting constantly screwed by the current system since I'm posting about my terrible relationship with it. Maybe this one is actually on you.

    You have a continued very colorful vocabulary to paint both me and raiders in general. How is that for personal attacks? What can I say? Most training runs I have experienced (both as member and as leader) usually have minimal or no participation requirements. If you couldn't even cut it there, maybe the issue is more you and not the training run.

    @bravoart.5308 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    Here is where you are: bottom of the barrel and useless. Get into a training run or guild and start improving. No one else is going to do that for you.

    Lookit that! Another personal attack, wow. :3c You really can't help yourself, can you? So rude.
    Yes it's absolutely my fault that I've tried it your way many times and here I am still with no raid experience. Not at all any responsibility of the training guilds letting people fall through the cracks and not doing what they are constantly getting advertised and praised for doing.

    But who cares, you're not going to read this and just respond with more lazy personal attacks.

    That was no personal attack. that was literally a statement as to where 99.999% of all players (myself included) are before they start raiding with only open world experience based on my own an perceived experience from all the raids I've done.

    You keep claiming you had no success with training runs or raids. I'm starting to doubt you've even ever participated in any, and if so, you might have been to set in your ways or resistant to advice. Training guilds don't let people fall through the cracks, most raid guilds accept players with open arms. They do might let people go who are a bad fit though if say the behavior of that person creates issues.

    Here is an easy 1-step varification you can apply to grouping, just ask yourself: why should the other player(group of players) group with me?
    If any of the answers is along the line of: because we will have more fun together, we will overcome a challenge, he knows me, I've helped him in the past, he was looking for someone with my experience (or any attribute which was looked for which you met), etc. Then you are good and the group will likely result in everyone having fun.

    If you answer though is: because I want to and I don't care what they want. Then your group is likely to fail and result in no productive gameplay.

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:
    listen, i do not care if ppl raids or not . everyone can and should have each own. i just find terrible that part of the content is locked out for most players while it could have easily been set with different difficutly and let everyone have fun.

    Because "everyone" and "most players" would never do Raids regardless of their difficulty. Those "most players" you are talking about all they care about is fast and effortless loot which is why the easiest/best farms are so overpopulated, while the rest of the game suffers, with less participation and players even than the hardest raids.

  • xenon.3264xenon.3264 Member ✭✭✭

    It is a game.
    Ever been in a real life meeting? You do what is enjoyable by most of the people if you want most if not everyone to have fun

    If most ppl care about playing easy mode maybe this is the reason why the chose gw2.

    This is not mhw nor darksoul and this is a game I chose for the absence of vertical progression and raids (7 years ago was one of the main point of the game : we do not raid like in wow)

    So the small hardcore community can complain but if most players want something different the only doable thing is a different tier raids like fractals

  • maddoctor.2738maddoctor.2738 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @xenon.3264 said:
    If most ppl care about playing easy mode maybe this is the reason why the chose gw2.

    The reality is that "most ppl" don't care about playing an easy mode because "most ppl" stay away of the current really easy instanced content, they won't suddenly go play an easier version of Raids.

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