You can do raids with 0 experience, here s how I did it. - Page 3 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

You can do raids with 0 experience, here s how I did it.

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Comments

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 21, 2019

    @maddoctor.2738 said:

    @Firebeard.1746 said:
    Sloth stomp is a practical 1 shot mechanic.

    You should learn some things about Raid mechanics before going in there and trying a Raid. Knowledge is power, and half the battle.
    By "stomp" I assume you mean when Sloth pounds the ground for a while, creating very noticeable circles under the feet of all players. There are 3 circles that appear per player, as you move.The trick there is that you shouldn't move when Sloth pounds the ground, or the circles will spread and cover a larger area making them harder to avoid. Standing still will force the circles to spawn on top of each other, meaning far less area will be covered making them really easy to avoid. Running like headless chickens when encountering a boss ability in Raids does lead to wipes, but once you know the abilities work it becomes much easier.

    Edit: It's the same for most mechanics in the Raids.

    I know how it works, he's claiming there aren't 1 shot mechanics and i'm saying he's wrong. And that's not even mentioning the 3 other wipe the whole raid mechanics: slubs (if your assigned slubbers screw up everyone dies), poison payload management and if everyone doesn't stun break or the druid doesn't cleanse fast enough everyone gets feared into poison during aoe fear.

  • I will cosign this with the seal of approval. Best videos to watch are from the mighty teapot. He is very thorough with his explanation and has a wonderful british accent that makes you feel smarter by listening to him.

  • Firebeard.1746Firebeard.1746 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I will cosign this with the seal of approval. Best videos to watch are from the mighty teapot. He is very thorough with his explanation and has a wonderful british accent that makes you feel smarter by listening to him.

    Did he quit?

  • @Firebeard.1746 said:

    @Magnus Godrik.5841 said:
    I will cosign this with the seal of approval. Best videos to watch are from the mighty teapot. He is very thorough with his explanation and has a wonderful british accent that makes you feel smarter by listening to him.

    Did he quit?

    Nope he still makes new videos on gw2 and plays. He quit bashing anet on a weekly basis tho.

  • The average gw2 player is quite simply not capable of doing raids. Yet they feel entitled. If you have some lv of skill I advice you to not display it. Cause you will actually get bullied for it.

    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 29, 2019

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • yann.1946yann.1946 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    I agree,

    It's quite interesting that what gets proclaimed as on the most casual mmo, also is one of the most complicated. :p.

    And even the fact that some of the pro casual additions make the game also less casual in a sense.
    The easiest example is the lack of gear grind also means things can't get out geared.

  • @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    I agree,

    It's quite interesting that what gets proclaimed as on the most casual mmo, also is one of the most complicated. :p.

    And even the fact that some of the pro casual additions make the game also less casual in a sense.
    The easiest example is the lack of gear grind also means things can't get out geared.

    You literally outgear raids on release with ascended gear.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    I agree,

    It's quite interesting that what gets proclaimed as on the most casual mmo, also is one of the most complicated. :p.

    And even the fact that some of the pro casual additions make the game also less casual in a sense.
    The easiest example is the lack of gear grind also means things can't get out geared.

    You literally outgear raids on release with ascended gear.

    Seeing how (as we've been told at some point) they were balanced around assumption you are already running full ascended, that's literally untrue.
    Hint: yes, some very skilled people can do them in budget greens. That doesn't mean the content is designed for people in budget greens. It just means that those players are doing it at a difficulty level tuned up way higher than it was designed.
    And why is that even possible is a result of what i mentioned above - in this game, unlike in other MMOS, the difficulty tiers are primarily based on actual skill, not gear tiers and levels

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    I agree,

    It's quite interesting that what gets proclaimed as on the most casual mmo, also is one of the most complicated. :p.

    And even the fact that some of the pro casual additions make the game also less casual in a sense.
    The easiest example is the lack of gear grind also means things can't get out geared.

    You literally outgear raids on release with ascended gear.

    Seeing how (as we've been told at some point) they were balanced around assumption you are already running full ascended, that's literally untrue.
    Hint: yes, some very skilled people can do them in budget greens. That doesn't mean the content is designed for people in budget greens. It just means that those players are doing it at a difficulty level tuned up way higher than it was designed.
    And why is that even possible is a result of what i mentioned above - in this game, unlike in other MMOS, the difficulty tiers are primarily based on actual skill, not gear tiers and levels

    You can actually do many raids with naked squad, but thats an other funny topic😅

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:

    @yann.1946 said:

    @Astralporing.1957 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    Gw2 was intended as a PVP / WvW game with a great combat system. After all casuals can still be skilled. However it has gotten to the point where most mobile gaming players have more skill than the average gw2 player.

    I think you might remember it wrong. It was GW1 that was supposed to be a pvp game with pve lobby/introductory course. By the time the idea of GW2 came along, devs knew for a long time already that the PvE side was way, way more popular.

    As for the meme of gw2 players being less skilled than in other games... well. This game does attract more casual players than some others (or, rather, it is less attractive for hardcore players), but the main reason for why the skill gap between average and top players seems to be so great is due to mechanics, not actual skill difference. Get the average player from any other MMO in the GW2 game engine, and he'd be as bad (or good) as an average gw2 player. It's just that in GW2 that player's real skill level would be more visible due to this game being way more skill-dependant than others, while in other MMORPGs it could be somewhat hidden with high enough gear level.

    I agree,

    It's quite interesting that what gets proclaimed as on the most casual mmo, also is one of the most complicated. :p.

    And even the fact that some of the pro casual additions make the game also less casual in a sense.
    The easiest example is the lack of gear grind also means things can't get out geared.

    You literally outgear raids on release with ascended gear.

    Seeing how (as we've been told at some point) they were balanced around assumption you are already running full ascended, that's literally untrue.
    Hint: yes, some very skilled people can do them in budget greens. That doesn't mean the content is designed for people in budget greens. It just means that those players are doing it at a difficulty level tuned up way higher than it was designed.
    And why is that even possible is a result of what i mentioned above - in this game, unlike in other MMOS, the difficulty tiers are primarily based on actual skill, not gear tiers and levels

    The potentional dps output of a squad in ascended gear was severely underestimated, by the community and devs. The raids are essentially designed to easy.

    The initial statement that you need ascended gear is simply wrong. Regardless of skill lv.

    From my perspective you see all these insane low man's or regular kills with 6 min on the clock left because raids are to easy for the gear we have.

    I disagree I left gw2 raiding cause it's to easy and other games are simply more challenging. Yes the combat system is more in depth and more difficult in gw, however the content is extremely undertuned.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 30, 2019

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    The potentional dps output of a squad in ascended gear was severely underestimated, by the community and devs. The raids are essentially designed to easy.

    That's your personal opinion. Apparently, Anet doesn't agree, or the most recent wings would have been designed to be much harder than they are.

    The initial statement that you need ascended gear is simply wrong. Regardless of skill lv.

    I am not talking about needing ascended. I am talking about balancing everything around having ascended. That's not the same.

    Remember, in this game, unlike in most MMOs, having lower tier of gear than assumed does not mean the content is beyond your reach. It will just be a bit harder, that's all.

    From my perspective you see all these insane low man's or regular kills with 6 min on the clock left because raids are to easy for the gear we have.

    That's because you look at it through the lens of gear-focused MMORPGs. Here, gear doesn;t have as much impact, and is one of the least relevant things. A top player in greens will still be better than an average player in full ascended - something that in gear-progress games would not be possible.
    What you see is a result of impact of skill disparity on difficulty. Basically, a content designed to be challenging for top 5% of players will still end up being really easy for the top 1%. And will probably be flat out impossible for bottom 80%
    A content that would challenge those top 1%... that content would probably be impossible for 95% of the game population, and extremely, painfully hard for the next 2-3%. And you'd still probably see some individual players saying it was easy.

    I disagree I left gw2 raiding cause it's to easy and other games are simply more challenging. Yes the combat system is more in depth and more difficult in gw, however the content is extremely undertuned.

    If it was tuned higher, raids would be a dead content on arrival. Due to game mechanics, the discrepancy between players within same gear tier is much higher there than in other games. This means that tuning content for the top players does not make it just somewhat harder for those of next skill tier. It makes it prohibitively more difficult. And (again, unlike in other MMORPGs) it would remain that way forever, not just until next gear tier introduction.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • How can it be balanced around ascended when I can go Matthias in a full exotic low man and still beat him with minutes left ? When all you need is 60k squad dps and an an average squad can be around 110k ? Not mentioning the top 1% that can be above 200k. In other mmos this only happens when you hard out lv the content. Quite simply put even the low end in gw2 raids beat enrage easily.

    Gw2 is not way more difficult than other mmos. The players in this game are simply worse cause good plays and progressing as a group are not rewarded. Its not the gear, it's not the difficulty of the game nor is it the casual nature. It is quite simply a lack of understanding within most of the player base.

    But we are never gonna agree on the skill vs the gear debate, and quite simply put it does not matter. We all agree that you dont need to be anywhere close to the top 1% to clear raids.

  • @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    How can it be balanced around ascended when I can go Matthias in a full exotic low man and still beat him with minutes left ?

    I already explained that. You might want to read my earlier posts.
    Short version, though: they are not balanced around you.

    When all you need is 60k squad dps and an an average squad can be around 110k ?

    Because that is an average raid squad. Obviously, for them to be average, under-average raid squads need to exist as well.
    Hint: if dps requirement would be at 100k, that average squad would be average no more, because everyone below them would no longer be able to pass.

    Not mentioning the top 1% that can be above 200k. In other mmos this only happens when you hard out lv the content.

    You do hard outlevel the content. In this case however you "outlevel" it not on gear or actual level, but on skill.

    Quite simply put even the low end in gw2 raids beat enrage easily.

    Sure. Because those that can't beat enrage simply die much earlier to mechanics. Generally, enrage is not a mechanic that is supposed to kill players. It is a mechanic that is supposed to force certain style of playing.

    Notice also, that you're talking about low end of raids. Obviously, low end of raids is still people good enough to raid. Low end of GW2 is much lower than that.
    (hint: according to devs, average gw2 player dps is 10x lower than top player dps, so, if a top 1% group does 200k , the average gw2 group would do 20k)

    Gw2 is not way more difficult than other mmos. The players in this game are simply worse cause good plays and progressing as a group are not rewarded. Its not the gear, it's not the difficulty of the game nor is it the casual nature. It is quite simply a lack of understanding within most of the player base.

    It's not different than in other games, to be honest. It's just that while in gw2 that understanding is important, other games in its place require having proper gear level.

    But we are never gonna agree on the skill vs the gear debate, and quite simply put it does not matter. We all agree that you dont need to be anywhere close to the top 1% to clear raids.

    Of course. If that high level of skill was required (hint: it's not required not only in gw2, but also in any other MMORPG game i know of), the raids would be long dead.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • sokeenoppa.5384sokeenoppa.5384 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    How can it be balanced around ascended when I can go Matthias in a full exotic low man and still beat him with minutes left ? When all you need is 60k squad dps and an an average squad can be around 110k ? Not mentioning the top 1% that can be above 200k. In other mmos this only happens when you hard out lv the content. Quite simply put even the low end in gw2 raids beat enrage easily.

    Gw2 is not way more difficult than other mmos. The players in this game are simply worse cause good plays and progressing as a group are not rewarded. Its not the gear, it's not the difficulty of the game nor is it the casual nature. It is quite simply a lack of understanding within most of the player base.

    But we are never gonna agree on the skill vs the gear debate, and quite simply put it does not matter. We all agree that you dont need to be anywhere close to the top 1% to clear raids.

    You need to remember the squad composition that was meta when matthias came out. Things were a bit different back then.

    I'll have two number 9s, a number 9 large, a number 6 with extra dip, a number 7, two number 45s, one with cheese, and a large soda.

  • @sokeenoppa.5384 said:

    @DutchRiders.2871 said:
    How can it be balanced around ascended when I can go Matthias in a full exotic low man and still beat him with minutes left ? When all you need is 60k squad dps and an an average squad can be around 110k ? Not mentioning the top 1% that can be above 200k. In other mmos this only happens when you hard out lv the content. Quite simply put even the low end in gw2 raids beat enrage easily.

    Gw2 is not way more difficult than other mmos. The players in this game are simply worse cause good plays and progressing as a group are not rewarded. Its not the gear, it's not the difficulty of the game nor is it the casual nature. It is quite simply a lack of understanding within most of the player base.

    But we are never gonna agree on the skill vs the gear debate, and quite simply put it does not matter. We all agree that you dont need to be anywhere close to the top 1% to clear raids.

    You need to remember the squad composition that was meta when matthias came out. Things were a bit different back then.

    You mean when we did not realise how strong double chrono was and unnerfed alacrity ? My whole point is that at the start of raids we did not realise how much we can pull off in a 10 man squad. But when you look back raids are really undertuned. And my first kills still were a long shot from enrage.

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