Likelihood of Tengu involvement in Icebrood Saga? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Likelihood of Tengu involvement in Icebrood Saga?

Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
edited September 6, 2019 in Lore

I’ve really been pining to get a Dominion of Winds map for so long. Do you think there’s any potential to visit DoW built into the base concept of the Icebrood Saga?

I’d say the answer is no, but I’m hoping there are people with bigger brains than me that could argue in its favor. 😬

Comments

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    It doesn't strike me as a natural fit. Then again they kind found a way to add Thunderhead Keep into an otherwise Elonian focused story so I guess anything is possible, especially since it is believed they have some knowledge of the ED cycle and there are these https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Avicara

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Given that the only thing they need to do to involve tengu would be that the tengu decide that the time to watch who is and who isn't an ally is over, they could potentially become involved in any plot.

    That said, I feel like they'd give at least a small hint of tengu in the trailer if they were going to bring in something players have been wanting for ages.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 6, 2019

    it will be not very odd, lets remember theres Tengu on Auric Basin.
    in other words, the possibility of they come in a 'big thing' like a dedicated map to them is very low, the possibility of some 'cameo appearence' like in Auric Basin is medium~high.

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  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    There was a shot of what looked like to me were the Woodland Cascades in the trailer (the centaur scene), which are just to the west of the Far Shiverpeaks, and iirc there were Tengu tribes up there in GW1. So we may see them as part of a Far Shiverpeaks map that extends into the Verdant Cascades (or maybe a full map in the region), but I don't see much indication that we'll be going to the Dominion of Winds just yet in LWS5.

  • Fenom.9457Fenom.9457 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Very unlikely. I think maybe when it’s time for primordus, or their story won’t tie into a dragon

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  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Out of curiosity, why that map? It’s likely little more than villages with not much interesting to do or see

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Out of curiosity, why that map? It’s likely little more than villages with not much interesting to do or see

    It’s surrounded by a giant wall! And Tengu! Very secretive! Xenophobic! I wanna be nosy and learn everything I can. Closed off entrances to the DoW have been a fixture since launch.

    I’ve just been hoping the Tengu will become desperate enough to ask for aid and let us in, or they become hostile enough to warrant an infiltration/invasion (though I’d rather see it on friendlier terms).

    I just feel like that carrots been dangled in front of us for a long time. Surely there’s story potential for such a mysterious territory, and maybe they could even include claw island in a map since it’s just been sitting there for years since the PS...

    Not sure how it could fit into the Icebrood Saga, unless the DSD starts manifesting as a threat to them somehow.

  • At first, certainly not. Then it will depend on how anet decides to develop the story.
    In PoF we switched from Balthazar to Kralk, I would not later exclude stories about tengu :)

  • The beauty of Tengu is that they can be, like birds irl, anywhere and everywhere. The further north we go we could easily find more Avicara tribes that didn't assimilate into the Dominion of Winds, much like the Quetzal Tribes of the Maguuma. We could also stumble upon other tribes closer resembling Ravens or Owls (which could easily tie into the story as being seen, by the Norn, as Raven or Owl blessed), or even smaller in sized Tengu (dwarf sized) resembling something like snow bunting.

    Bringing them into the story and us into the Dominion of Winds: These tribes could be dealing with Jormags forces and end up seeking help from us. We form an alliance with them, defeat Jormag and its forces, and these tribes join the pact to help others in need and insure they have allies to come to their aid the next time they might need it. With these new tribes in the pact they can more easily persuade the tribes within the DoW to join our cause. If Jormag is awake after having been put to sleep by Taimi's machine then Primordus is sure to follow, if it's not already awake. The DoW finally recognize us as valuable allies and allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    This could also work if they hold true to having the Races of Tyria as focus points for each story arc; HoT for Sylvari, PoF for Humans, and now Icebrood Saga for Charr and Norn. Given one race was completely uprooted by Primordus (Asura) and another is under constant assault within their own domain (Tengu) the next "Saga" could cover the both of them (could also see more of the Dwarves [those that are still alive anyways]). But of course this all boils down to whether Anet wants to finally give us Tengu or if they're just going to continue to write them off as side characters that should never play a significant roll in GW2, even though they were the second (maybe even the most) wide spread race and are as old and well known (to us vets anyways) as the Charr, Dwarves, and Humans.

  • draxynnic.3719draxynnic.3719 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Out of curiosity, why that map? It’s likely little more than villages with not much interesting to do or see

    I'd expect a decent-sized city in the Domain of Winds, actually. Collapsing all of the tengu of four tribes that were spread over Shing Jea, Kryta, and the southern Shiverpeaks probably would result in a population density that requires some urbanisation.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Out of curiosity, why that map? It’s likely little more than villages with not much interesting to do or see

    I'd expect a decent-sized city in the Domain of Winds, actually. Collapsing all of the tengu of four tribes that were spread over Shing Jea, Kryta, and the southern Shiverpeaks probably would result in a population density that requires some urbanisation.

    Oh no doubt, but would it make for a worthwhile LW episode? I'm not saying it would or it wouldn't, I'm just curious at how player expectations fit with what is likely to be there given what little we know about it and the size of the map space to work with and the structure of an atypical episode map.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @draxynnic.3719 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    Out of curiosity, why that map? It’s likely little more than villages with not much interesting to do or see

    I'd expect a decent-sized city in the Domain of Winds, actually. Collapsing all of the tengu of four tribes that were spread over Shing Jea, Kryta, and the southern Shiverpeaks probably would result in a population density that requires some urbanisation.

    Oh no doubt, but would it make for a worthwhile LW episode? I'm not saying it would or it wouldn't, I'm just curious at how player expectations fit with what is likely to be there given what little we know about it and the size of the map space to work with and the structure of an atypical episode map.

    Well even if they kept it in the bounds of the DoW, they could create a more vertical map. Lots of levels leading to the top of the wall and underwater or underground. I think there's a lot of potential with the "emperor of the winds and four noble houses" You could have a main city or palace/compound and then four distinct villages or settlements for each house. Could be infighting between the houses, interacting with the emperor, etc. Obviously it's hard to spin it into the plot of Icebrood Saga having really no inclination where it's heading. Point being, I think they could make an interesting and rich map even within a small area. We just need a compelling reason to go there.

    Edit: Always forget how massive that area is based off the sections of the wall we can find in game. So I don't think there'd be trouble for space to fit things in. And also a large portion of the area could be devoted to underwater content. Though it'd probably more most sense for them to be involved in a DSD plot, unless it ends up being a strictly political thread like much of S3.

  • The tengu will never appear or be a major anything. They are just remnants of what was from a game that this game disregards as anything other than potential source ideas/guide lines.

  • @Vyriis.6258 said:
    ... allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    I don't expect to see an Elder Dragon having the powers of those who were already defeated anymore. They can only gain these powers if a Dragon's magic flows back into the magic network, which should not be happening again if we don't mess up. Primordus and Jormag had their magic drained by Balthazar, so they shouldn't be able to use Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's powers anymore. Kralk's magic was absorbed by Aurene before it could flow back into the magic network and possibly be absorbed. So, I guess Jormag and Primordus will only have their own powers. Especially since were not allowed to kill an Elder Dragon without someone absorbing the magic and taking the dragon's place. Bubbles is a wild card here, because it might have absorbed some of Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic when they were killed.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Vyriis.6258 said:
    ... allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    I don't expect to see an Elder Dragon having the powers of those who were already defeated anymore. They can only gain these powers if a Dragon's magic flows back into the magic network, which should not be happening again if we don't mess up. Primordus and Jormag had their magic drained by Balthazar, so they shouldn't be able to use Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's powers anymore. Kralk's magic was absorbed by Aurene before it could flow back into the magic network and possibly be absorbed. So, I guess Jormag and Primordus will only have their own powers. Especially since were not allowed to kill an Elder Dragon without someone absorbing the magic and taking the dragon's place. Bubbles is a wild card here, because it might have absorbed some of Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic when they were killed.

    I could be mis-remembering, but I think I saw a recent dev comment implying some of Kralks magic still went astray and that this Season would show the effects of the magic spread.

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • Tyson.5160Tyson.5160 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Vyriis.6258 said:
    ... allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    I don't expect to see an Elder Dragon having the powers of those who were already defeated anymore. They can only gain these powers if a Dragon's magic flows back into the magic network, which should not be happening again if we don't mess up. Primordus and Jormag had their magic drained by Balthazar, so they shouldn't be able to use Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's powers anymore. Kralk's magic was absorbed by Aurene before it could flow back into the magic network and possibly be absorbed. So, I guess Jormag and Primordus will only have their own powers. Especially since were not allowed to kill an Elder Dragon without someone absorbing the magic and taking the dragon's place. Bubbles is a wild card here, because it might have absorbed some of Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic when they were killed.

    I could be mis-remembering, but I think I saw a recent dev comment implying some of Kralks magic still went astray and that this Season would show the effects of the magic spread.

    I recall hearing that too, not sure where. It was one of the devs. Guess we’ll see if Jormag starts using some Crystal magic.

  • @Tyson.5160 said:

    @Randulf.7614 said:

    @Patty.3268 said:

    @Vyriis.6258 said:
    ... allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    I don't expect to see an Elder Dragon having the powers of those who were already defeated anymore. They can only gain these powers if a Dragon's magic flows back into the magic network, which should not be happening again if we don't mess up. Primordus and Jormag had their magic drained by Balthazar, so they shouldn't be able to use Zhaitan's or Mordremoth's powers anymore. Kralk's magic was absorbed by Aurene before it could flow back into the magic network and possibly be absorbed. So, I guess Jormag and Primordus will only have their own powers. Especially since were not allowed to kill an Elder Dragon without someone absorbing the magic and taking the dragon's place. Bubbles is a wild card here, because it might have absorbed some of Zhaitan's and Mordremoth's magic when they were killed.

    I could be mis-remembering, but I think I saw a recent dev comment implying some of Kralks magic still went astray and that this Season would show the effects of the magic spread.

    I recall hearing that too, not sure where. It was one of the devs. Guess we’ll see if Jormag starts using some Crystal magic.

    It was during the Q&A with the Narrative Team thread:

    1. Was the order of the Crystal Bloom just created for the Episode 6: War Eternal and was disbanded after Aurene becomes an elder dragon or we will see it later too?
    2. Aurene absorbed the power of Kralkatorrik, did some of his magic escape and reached other remaining dragons too or it's solely hers now? (we know that when a dragon dies, his magic gets absorbed by other dragons in a distance)
    3. Now that we know that dragons can hold multiple magics. Was it the same with Glint? Did she pass the "light" magic to Aurene on birth or it got transformed as from Kralkatorrik's magic?

    Tom says:
    1. No. I expect we’ll see it again.
    2. Good question. Highly relevant. Strong chance it will get addressed.
    3. Also a good question. We haven’t discussed it, but I think it’s worth noting that containing multiple magics at once pretty clearly drove Krakatorrik mad (and who knows what other impact it may have had on the behavior of other Elder Dragons in the past). Aurene is unique in a number of ways; whether this is one of them is a question yet to be answered.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1007220/#Comment_1007220

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  • ANet can introduce the Tengu and a Dominion of Winds map either with or without an elder dragon storyline.

    • Say the Tengu political leaders come to a majority consensus that the time has come to open up their gates and work with the other major races. The Sensali, Quetzal, etc. don't like it. Boom! Tengu civil war. Turns the Dominion of Winds map into an active combat map with a constant tug-of-war between isolationist vs foreign relations factions trying to seize control of the city and island at large, with the player character taking and holding outposts across Sanctum Cay during the meta event. There's enough precedent already for Tengu having severe socio-political disagreements between tribes, and coming to blows about it.

    • Alternatively, ANet established in 2012 that the Tengu have been struggling to deal with the presence of destroyers on Sanctum Cay, and were looking beyond their borders for solutions. Say the rise of Jormag coincides with Primordus waking up again, causing more and more problems for them, and so they finally come to an agreement to let folks in to help deal with the destroyers, with the Tengu offering assistance to the Pact in return - there's your opportunity to introduce one or more Tengu characters to the player's cadre.

    I'd honestly just like to see anything done with the Tengu. A playable race would be ideal, but at this point I'll take just about anything I can get. I don't like to see good lore go to waste, which ANet seems to be adept at doing.

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    0%.
    /10characterslimit

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  • Narcemus.1348Narcemus.1348 Member ✭✭✭

    What I would really like more of is just a good background of their society and cultural/religious beliefs. To my understanding, while we know they believe in a unique afterlife, we do not know anything about whether they worship their ancestors, or the gods, or the celestials, or anything else. There is so much mystery shrouded around them.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vyriis.6258 said:
    The beauty of Tengu is that they can be, like birds irl, anywhere and everywhere. The further north we go we could easily find more Avicara tribes that didn't assimilate into the Dominion of Winds, much like the Quetzal Tribes of the Maguuma. We could also stumble upon other tribes closer resembling Ravens or Owls (which could easily tie into the story as being seen, by the Norn, as Raven or Owl blessed), or even smaller in sized Tengu (dwarf sized) resembling something like snow bunting.

    Bringing them into the story and us into the Dominion of Winds: These tribes could be dealing with Jormags forces and end up seeking help from us. We form an alliance with them, defeat Jormag and its forces, and these tribes join the pact to help others in need and insure they have allies to come to their aid the next time they might need it. With these new tribes in the pact they can more easily persuade the tribes within the DoW to join our cause. If Jormag is awake after having been put to sleep by Taimi's machine then Primordus is sure to follow, if it's not already awake. The DoW finally recognize us as valuable allies and allow us into the Dominion to help cull the destroyers (maybe now increased numbers and strength [with the power of four dead Elder Dragons now boosting them]) that they can no longer hold back alone.

    This could also work if they hold true to having the Races of Tyria as focus points for each story arc; HoT for Sylvari, PoF for Humans, and now Icebrood Saga for Charr and Norn. Given one race was completely uprooted by Primordus (Asura) and another is under constant assault within their own domain (Tengu) the next "Saga" could cover the both of them (could also see more of the Dwarves [those that are still alive anyways]). But of course this all boils down to whether Anet wants to finally give us Tengu or if they're just going to continue to write them off as side characters that should never play a significant roll in GW2, even though they were the second (maybe even the most) wide spread race and are as old and well known (to us vets anyways) as the Charr, Dwarves, and Humans.

    The problem will all of this is...

    The Tengu in the Dominion of Winds are Isolationist. They wouldn't even let a Tengu past their gate, because he wasn't from the Dominion (And IIRC, had spent so much time outside of it/grew up or was born outside of it to the point of not understanding the language).

    So an outside group of Tengu that are not part of the Dominion's houses siding with the Pact wouldn't actually do much to persuade the Tengu leadership within to open the gates. Especially when their entire history is "We tried to be nice with humans, and got backstabbed for it when a jerk became leader, exiling us from our own homelands."

    TBH the whole idea of Tengu seeing major involvement in a story arc dedicated to going to the far north of Tyria, is odd to me.

  • Narcemus.1348Narcemus.1348 Member ✭✭✭

    Agreed. As much as I would like new information on them, this story should first and foremost do justice to the Norn, Charr, and Kodan.

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭

    @Narcemus.1348 said:
    Agreed. As much as I would like new information on them, this story should first and foremost do justice to the Norn, Charr, and Kodan.

    Also a great point. If a story arc taking place in the blood legion homelands and the far shiverpeaks dealing with the Norn and Charr featured heavy Tengu involvement and story development, as opposed to Kodan and (to a lesser extent) Quaggan and Grawl? I'd be confused and disappointed.

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