Gem prices are at an all time high. — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Gem prices are at an all time high.

I can't help but notice that Gem prices are at its highest since the release of the game...
Is this a sign that the game is still healthy or am I reading it wrong?

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Comments

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Still the aniversery saile going on bud so

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    It should be a sign people are using gold to gems more to buy old seasons and the the current new horizons packages.

    I think that’s how it works.

    The game is healthy anyway, but it also shows people are wealthier in game and would rather use that than give up actual money which is being squeezed more and more.

    I think that’s how it works..!!

    I think that's right. When the cost of buying gems with gold increases it shows that more people are converting gold to gems, when it drops (and the price of buying gold with gems increases) it shows that more people are converting gems into gold. (Basically whichever option is most popular will increase in price.)

    Gems which are purchased with real money and then used to buy items from the gem store have no effect on the exchange rate, so it's difficult to gauge how many people are using that option, especially when there's lots of popular items available/discounted. The increase in the exchange rate might show that more people are using gold to buy gem store items rather than real money, or it might show that more stuff is being bought from the gem store overall. Anet will be able to tell because they will have data on how many gems were purchased with real money, but the nearest we can get is to wait for the next NCSoft quarterly report then try to guess how much of the profit they get from GW2 came from gem sales vs. sales of the game itself.

    Similarly it's difficult to gauge the health of the game from the exchange rate because we don't know how many transactions are needed to change it. In theory if no one ever converted gems into gold then just 1 person buying gems with gold could cause the exchange rate to shift. (And I think if no one was converting either way it would stay the same, rather than dropping to what it used to be.)

    So it shows that the current gem store items/discounts are popular with people who buy gems with gold, but we can't tell anything more than that.

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  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019
    1. Gems prices goes high when utility stuff are on promotion.
    2. Gems Store its a gold sink and will keep the excess gold on check, excess gold people will convert to buy shinies.
    3. The gold convertion highs up, the gold circulating on game goes down.
    4. With gold conversion high, the ppl with easy real money will find attractive buy gems to buy expensive stuff acquired by gold only like rare infusions. Anet earns -they money, the people that farm rare stuff to sell earns their gold.
    5. So to the economy stays health the number of options of rare items acquired in pve-only should be increased too in proportion of gem store shiny stuff, then the pve-crowd will had their sense of something to accomplish, they will be more incentived to "farm", and giving to the game a sense of being alive and populated.

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  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    Prices are high because of the anniversary sales. They have been on an upward trend since the beginning of the game, which is to be expected, but were relatively stable for most of the year at around 33G per 100 gems. It was only the recent month of sales that pushed the cost up with the largest spike towards the end of August when they actually released worthwhile things..

  • mindcircus.1506mindcircus.1506 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I can't help but notice that Gem prices are at its highest since the release of the game...
    Is this a sign that the game is still healthy or am I reading it wrong?

    It could mean few think it's worth spending money for in game gold.
    It's not an obvious sign of health no. There are too many factors to point to it as a concrete sign of anything.

  • this is a sign that the game is doing well and many players are returning to the game. good to see alot of players coming back and new since the 30th announcement.

  • Friday.7864Friday.7864 Member ✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:
    Considering how much I don't trust Anet, I'm super sceptical with gem prices when it comes to Gold-Gem transaction.
    It only ever goes up or down 2-5g, it never falls down drastically to indicate people not buying gems as much.
    So what I think, and there is NO WAY any of you can convince me otherwise:

    • I feel it is Anet who slowly keeps upping the price over the years, but lets us believe its people. So that people would just opt out for Money-Gem because gold prices are outrageous, that way they get more $$$. It is "suspicious" how it was around 145g more/less during whole Anniv-sale but the day they put keys on sale, it jumps by 30-40g, to 180 more or less for 400gems. And basically now it's sitting on around 170-185g and is not going down, when there is no way people are buying gems that much to keep the price up. Basically I feel they put it up by 40g so that people would just go for IRL money instead. They just set it to fluctuate between 170-185g per 400gems. But it's pretty much gonna stay there forever, until they up it to 200g, and so on...

    One dude in my guild converted 4k gold to get starborn outfit and he would have spent a few thousand more if he had to. A lot of people want that outfit.
    If there's anything shiny, new or with a fat discount expect the gem prices to go up.
    You should exchange your gold for gems while there are no sales, like it was 2 months ago. Had you done that you would have paid 120g for 400 gems.
    And yeah, the anniversary sale is still going strong with shared inv and bank slots on sale. It's impossible for the gem price to fall significantly rn.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:
    Considering how much I don't trust Anet, I'm super sceptical with gem prices when it comes to Gold-Gem transaction.
    It only ever goes up or down 2-5g, it never falls down drastically to indicate people not buying gems as much.
    So what I think, and there is NO WAY any of you can convince me otherwise:

    • I feel it is Anet who slowly keeps upping the price over the years, but lets us believe its people. So that people would just opt out for Money-Gem because gold prices are outrageous, that way they get more $$$. It is "suspicious" how it was around 145g more/less during whole Anniv-sale but the day they put keys on sale, it jumps by 30-40g, to 180 more or less for 400gems. And basically now it's sitting on around 170-185g and is not going down, when there is no way people are buying gems that much to keep the price up. Basically I feel they put it up by 40g so that people would just go for IRL money instead. They just set it to fluctuate between 170-185g per 400gems. But it's pretty much gonna stay there forever, until they up it to 200g, and so on...

    You should look at what game out around that time. The prices continue to go up as gold becomes easier to get. I probably spent over 3K gems a week ago on those character slots and I've spent five times as much on other things such as mount skins. All of that by converting my gold to gems. If there isn't enough people spending money to convert gems to gold then the rate will continue to rise which it has been doing over the life of the game.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:
    Considering how much I don't trust Anet, I'm super sceptical with gem prices when it comes to Gold-Gem transaction.
    It only ever goes up or down 2-5g, it never falls down drastically to indicate people not buying gems as much.
    So what I think, and there is NO WAY any of you can convince me otherwise:

    • I feel it is Anet who slowly keeps upping the price over the years, but lets us believe its people. So that people would just opt out for Money-Gem because gold prices are outrageous, that way they get more $$$. It is "suspicious" how it was around 145g more/less during whole Anniv-sale but the day they put keys on sale, it jumps by 30-40g, to 180 more or less for 400gems. And basically now it's sitting on around 170-185g and is not going down, when there is no way people are buying gems that much to keep the price up. Basically I feel they put it up by 40g so that people would just go for IRL money instead. They just set it to fluctuate between 170-185g per 400gems. But it's pretty much gonna stay there forever, until they up it to 200g, and so on...

    You should look at what game out around that time. The prices continue to go up as gold becomes easier to get. I probably spent over 3K gems a week ago on those character slots and I've spent five times as much on other things such as mount skins. All of that by converting my gold to gems. If there isn't enough people spending money to convert gems to gold then the rate will continue to rise which it has been doing over the life of the game.

    But that's during anniv-sale... and surely amount of gems bought is way less than it is during sale and yet it's not going down, so it should fall down, but it doesn't go up or down more than 5g or so. That's why I think Anet locks it at X amount for a while and then slowly moves it up each sale.

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  • @MetalGirl.2370 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:
    Considering how much I don't trust Anet, I'm super sceptical with gem prices when it comes to Gold-Gem transaction.
    It only ever goes up or down 2-5g, it never falls down drastically to indicate people not buying gems as much.
    So what I think, and there is NO WAY any of you can convince me otherwise:

    • I feel it is Anet who slowly keeps upping the price over the years, but lets us believe its people. So that people would just opt out for Money-Gem because gold prices are outrageous, that way they get more $$$. It is "suspicious" how it was around 145g more/less during whole Anniv-sale but the day they put keys on sale, it jumps by 30-40g, to 180 more or less for 400gems. And basically now it's sitting on around 170-185g and is not going down, when there is no way people are buying gems that much to keep the price up. Basically I feel they put it up by 40g so that people would just go for IRL money instead. They just set it to fluctuate between 170-185g per 400gems. But it's pretty much gonna stay there forever, until they up it to 200g, and so on...

    You should look at what game out around that time. The prices continue to go up as gold becomes easier to get. I probably spent over 3K gems a week ago on those character slots and I've spent five times as much on other things such as mount skins. All of that by converting my gold to gems. If there isn't enough people spending money to convert gems to gold then the rate will continue to rise which it has been doing over the life of the game.

    But that's during anniv-sale... and surely amount of gems bought is way less than it is during sale and yet it's not going down, so it should fall down, but it doesn't go up or down more than 5g or so. That's why I think Anet locks it at X amount for a while and then slowly moves it up each sale.

    What other conspiracy theories are you into?

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  • Eloc Freidon.5692Eloc Freidon.5692 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Considering the crazy amount of great stuff being added to the gem store in the last couple months, THEN this anniversary sale, its no surprise.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @MetalGirl.2370 said:
    Considering how much I don't trust Anet, I'm super sceptical with gem prices when it comes to Gold-Gem transaction.
    It only ever goes up or down 2-5g, it never falls down drastically to indicate people not buying gems as much.
    So what I think, and there is NO WAY any of you can convince me otherwise:

    • I feel it is Anet who slowly keeps upping the price over the years, but lets us believe its people. So that people would just opt out for Money-Gem because gold prices are outrageous, that way they get more $$$. It is "suspicious" how it was around 145g more/less during whole Anniv-sale but the day they put keys on sale, it jumps by 30-40g, to 180 more or less for 400gems. And basically now it's sitting on around 170-185g and is not going down, when there is no way people are buying gems that much to keep the price up. Basically I feel they put it up by 40g so that people would just go for IRL money instead. They just set it to fluctuate between 170-185g per 400gems. But it's pretty much gonna stay there forever, until they up it to 200g, and so on...

    You should look at what game out around that time. The prices continue to go up as gold becomes easier to get. I probably spent over 3K gems a week ago on those character slots and I've spent five times as much on other things such as mount skins. All of that by converting my gold to gems. If there isn't enough people spending money to convert gems to gold then the rate will continue to rise which it has been doing over the life of the game.

    But that's during anniv-sale... and surely amount of gems bought is way less than it is during sale and yet it's not going down, so it should fall down, but it doesn't go up or down more than 5g or so. That's why I think Anet locks it at X amount for a while and then slowly moves it up each sale.

    Look at what they’ve been releasing recently which is why it hasn’t gone down. In order for it to go down, people have to buy gems and convert them to gold as well.

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @DarkNighT.7319 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Still the aniversery saile going on bud so

    even without the sale the gemprice is stupid high, which is made worse by the fact a lot of materials are worth nothing compared to the old days.

    just seasonal fluctuation, and a display of amount of liquid gold floating around the economy

    my view is gold -> gem needs to be high for anet to make money, and to survive
    if players can get too much gemstore items without micro transaction, anet will go broke

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  • Two concepts explain the trend. Others have already stated them, but what the heck, maybe someone who didn't read those posts will read this one.

    • Supply and demand: ANet has been putting a lot of things either new or on sale in the store for over a month. This drives demand for gems. Demand for gold could balance the demand for gems, but the game is short of gold sinks right now. Supply of gems is independent of the market, but demand for gold is down. The natural result of these circumstances is a rising gold-to-gem rate.
    • Over the life of the game, the supply of gold is constantly increasing. The game makes more gold than its sinks eliminate. That means that supply of gold is up in a market climate where the demand for gold by gem customers is down, but the overall demand for gems is up. Again, the gold-to-gems exchange rate goes up.

    Think about the last time a significant drop in the gold-for-gems rate (30-40 gold per 400 gems) happened. This was near the launch of PoF. The supply of gems likely went up because of the purchase of Ultimate packages with their 4000 gems. Demand for gold went up due to the 250 gold needed for the griffon.

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  • @EremiteAngel.9765 said:
    I can't help but notice that Gem prices are at its highest since the release of the game...
    Is this a sign that the game is still healthy or am I reading it wrong?

    You absolutely read it wrong.

    Gems are high when lot of people buy gems with ingame gold but very few buy gems with real money and sell them.
    This is the exact opposite of what you want to read into that.

  • When is the best time to convert gems to gold?

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cuks.8241 said:
    Also general inflation of gold prices of everything. People just have more gold so are prepared to pay more.

    Yep, prices were almost 30% lower this time last year, which were about 15% lower than the year before. This trend should continue if everything is healthy . . .

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @crepuscular.9047 said:

    @DarkNighT.7319 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:
    Still the aniversery saile going on bud so

    even without the sale the gemprice is stupid high, which is made worse by the fact a lot of materials are worth nothing compared to the old days.

    just seasonal fluctuation, and a display of amount of liquid gold floating around the economy

    my view is gold -> gem needs to be high for anet to make money, and to survive
    if players can get too much gemstore items without micro transaction, anet will go broke

    It also means it's relatively cheap to buy gold with real money legally through the game itself, which means players are less likely to go to an illegal gold selling site to get it. (I haven't seen gold seller spam in-game for months, but I assume they're still around because I've never heard of any game completing eliminating them.)

    @Ricky Da Man.5064 said:
    When is the best time to convert gems to gold?

    Around now. When it's more expensive to buy gems with gold it's cheaper to buy gold with gems.

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  • Luthan.5236Luthan.5236 Member ✭✭✭

    I think there is a hidden exchange fee. Cause gems->gold doesn't give the same values ad gold->gems. This is to remove gold from the ingame economy. (Amongst other things that to this. Like things that require to pay gold at vendors.)

    I mean as a returning player still playing without expansions and not playing dungeons/raids n stuff ... back then there was not much stuff to really "create" gold. Now we have dailies for 2 gold. Also more things to sell (those 30 or 50 silver junk items). And I gues there is much more I don't do with my playstyle. We need to remember that all the money the people that farm by earning at TP had to be "created" somehow. And is getting "destroyed" somewhere else. (If not traded to other players. By fees or buying stuff at a vendor.)

    Isn't that weird that with more ways to create money (already the daily 2 gold is more than compared to before this daily 2g existed - if a lot of players do it each day) means more people going for exchange of gold into gems. Now with certainly different types of players: Hardcore farmers that sell at TP vs. noobs that might use their daily 2g to buy stuff at TP ... it might accumulate for certain rich players that have tons of gold just by playing (TP and selling + the daily gold + selling junk and other sources maybe).

    They can drive the prices upwards. We don't even know the exact system behind it. I just started playing GW1 where no TP exists - but exchange merchants. They buy for 10 and sell you the stuff for 100 (so 90 exchange fee I guess.) :D Then again money isn't worth much in that game.

    Personally I try to avoid exchanging. For gems->gold it would be a wast of real money. I'd rather save gold and earn it by myself. Don't need too much though. More in a need of gems but buying for real money every now and then is okay - better than doing the grind/farming since I have lots of other stuff to to left in the game. (Catching up after long break.) If I were finished with everythign and bored with PvP/WvW I'd to PvE grind as well I guess. Trying to exchange a bit every now and then. (Keeping still always a healthy amount of gold in case it is needed since there are things that need gold even if you don't want to buy at TP and to stuff yourwelf. )

  • Danikat.8537Danikat.8537 Member ✭✭✭✭

    You're right about the transaction fee, there's a 15% fee on each exchange. I guess it is 'hidden' in that it's not clearly explained in-game but Anet have told us how it works and that's explained on the Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange#Mechanics

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  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    I'm surprised so few of you read the old Q&A posts from around release, and naturally this leads to alot of speculation regarding the sudden increase in gold to gem conversion. Well here's why:

    Converting gold to gems or vice versa does nothing to affect the value of either, because the total wealth in the game remains the same. There's just as much gems as they are worth in gold, and gold as worth in gems.

    The inflation we see today, driving up conversion costs, stems from players buying gems for real life money. This isn't something new and happens periodically during sales and naturally fluctuates from day to day. These "newly created" gems can now be converted into gold which increases the available total wealth in the game, meaning we have to pay more in order to maintain the inherent value of gems.

    An easy way to look at the rate of conversion:

    • If price is dropping, this means less people are buying gems for irl money today than yesterday
    • If price remains stable, people are spending about the same amount of irl money on gems today as they did yesterday
    • If price is increasing, people are buying more gems for irl money today than they did yesterday

    So as we can see we are still riding the wave of increasing gem purchases since the start of the august sale, seemingly having reached a peak. You can bet they will release new goodies on the 17th in order to maintain this all time high, however it cannot last forever. There will be droughts of new content and the conversion rate will inevitably drop as not as many keep buying gems.

    So do not worry, converting your hard earned gold to gems will not drive up the conversion rate, if anything you are doing a favour to others who do the same keeping the price as is. And for those who do buy gems: Thank you for supporting this great company, and remember we've all been there - so don't feel bad but rather really enjoy your new shiny :)

    Source:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xtjc7/comment/cp3gd2a

  • crepuscular.9047crepuscular.9047 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Luthan.5236 said:
    I think there is a hidden exchange fee. Cause gems->gold doesn't give the same values ad gold->gems. This is to remove gold from the ingame economy. (Amongst other things that to this. Like things that require to pay gold at vendors.)


    @Danikat.8537 said:
    You're right about the transaction fee, there's a 15% fee on each exchange. I guess it is 'hidden' in that it's not clearly explained in-game but Anet have told us how it works and that's explained on the Wiki: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange#Mechanics

    gem -> gold must be lower, otherwise it will be prone to currency manipulation, and we arent talking about virtual item <-> virtual currency, but real money being manipulated as gems are pegged to USD/EURO at a fixed price through gem purchase

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  • Alin.2468Alin.2468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    When I looked few days ago, 400 gems were 191 gold. This means players no longer buy gems with money from banks, so they convert gems to gold. Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with anniversary sale + no great content in announcement on 30th of August + lack of endgame content for PvP and WvW now and in future (according to announcement).

    Theoretically prices of gems (in gold) should drop. However, let's not forget a prologue will be released on 17th September and that will bring new offers; and Halloween event is coming soon with other offers.

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  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alin.2468 said:
    When I looked few days ago, 400 gems were 191 gold. This means players no longer buy gems with money from banks, so they convert gems to gold. Maybe, just maybe, it has something to do with anniversary sale + no great content in announcement on 30th of August + lack of endgame content for PvP and WvW now and in future (according to announcement).

    Theoretically prices of gems (in gold) should drop. However, let's not forget a prologue will be released on 17th September and that will bring new offers; and Halloween event is coming soon with other offers.

    You are making assumptions which you can not prove, or which do not make even sense, given only the exchange value.

    Read up on how the exchange works, I did a small explanation of it right above your post. All you can deduce from a shifted exchange rate is that the gold supply ratio to gem supply in the exchange has shifted. Why and how it has shifted one can speculate. The most reasonable assumption based on past behavior is:

    • more people are converting gold to gems to acquire items during the anniversary sale
    • the amount of people buying gems and converting gems to gold is less than the amount of people converting gold to gems (that is pretty much all we can assume).
    • the amount of people converting gems to gold might be higher than usual but still below the amount of gold converted to gems (currently people are getting a lot more value in gold per gem than before, also at higher gold cost per gem people are more incentivised to directly purchase gems)

    The amount of gems bought with real money can be absolutely unrelated to the gem - gold ratio since people who buy gems with $$$ will simply directly acquire the gem store item completely bypassing the exchange.

  • Might be related to the issue of more expensive gems via rl money, too.
    Instant Gaming is nearly constantly sold out (at least whenever I look), there was a thread here in the forum where ppl. from Australia complained about gemcards not being available in their stores either.
    So for me the difference is around 10k-12k gems for 100 € (purchased as code via Instant Gaming before, depending on exact price) to now only 8k for the same price in europe (purchased directly from the website)... might be the difference of 2 to 4k some might have sold for ingame gold that they now use their 8k (or whatever less gems purchased) only for their own stuff.
    I'm moving at the moment so don't have time to play anyways, hope this issue get's fixed in the meantime though.

  • Psientist.6437Psientist.6437 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    Manipulating the exchange rate would be very risky. It would provide every employee with weaponized information that could possibly withstand an NDA, but it would not guarantee an increase in revenue. The studio approaches analytics with faith. I am confident someone would talk. Everything about the current rate can be explained by player activity and Tyria's high standard of living. Other posters have covered this.

    I only continue because currency theory is addictive. The gem exchange is an honorable way to monetize players and I have no interest in tearing it down.

    IF

    The gold supply includes the quantity held in active user accounts and the quantity held within the BLTP.
    We approach every trade occurring within the BLTP as describing the Lifestyle.
    Build statistically significant baskets of goods that do not include every trade, a lifestyle.
    There is an acceptably largest significant basket of goods or a meta-basketry that can be called Inflation or Deflation.

    THEN

    The gem exchange can cause inflation or Inflation. Players produce all new units of gold and provide all velocity for existing units of gold. Anything that increases the demand for gold will increase the new gold creation rate and existing gold velocity. Currency velocity describes how frequently a unit of gold is traded. (A Unity of currency provides quantum bits of virtual work that experience a change in position as a change in state?!) To predict Inflation we would need to make assumptions about overall player demand for goods and average and modal player income and income sources. The topography of the overall player demand curve is very complex. An increase in supply can cause an increase in demand. The topography of player income and income sources is much less complex. Average and modal income is likely lower than easily assumed. I remember a post from years ago putting the average at 2-5 gold per hour. I don't remember precisely. At such a low average, income from dailies becomes much more significant.

    Imo, the likeliness that the gem exchange is causing Inflation depends significantly on how thoroughly the demand curve for gold to gem exchanges overlaps with savings (gold that does not have a determined trajectory) and the share of new gold being aimed at savings or the BLTP.

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  • AlexxxDelta.1806AlexxxDelta.1806 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    There is no need for Anet to influence the exchange directly with shady stuff like locking rates, when they can easily do so indirectly.

    They have the keys of the kingdom simply by being the...devs of this game. They create the gold sinks and farms, they create gem store stuff and set the gem prices, they decide the when and how of everything related to the game economy.

    So if, for example, Anet wanted the rates to keep going up in the long term, they would just keep creating a favourable market environment for that to happen. Expected player behavior and supply and demand take care of the rest.

  • Alin.2468Alin.2468 Member ✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You are making assumptions which you can not prove, or which do not make even sense, given only the exchange value.

    Exactly, I have made assumptions that I can not prove. Because I can't prove them, it's exactly why they are called assumptions; hence why I used the word "maybe" as in "I do not know what will happen", therefore I made a supposition without foundation on facts or statistics, simply because I can't possibly have access on those. I know it may seem strange to you, but I will try to be blunt with you: I am not Anet staff, sorry to disappoint you; I am just another player making assumptions, for fun or for the sake of discussion.

    Winston Churchill said: "When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber" - I am just another parrot enjoying the game created by eagles watching our wallets (and this does not imply that you are an eagle either).

    One man's trash is another man's treasure.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @rng.1024 said:
    I'm surprised so few of you read the old Q&A posts from around release, and naturally this leads to alot of speculation regarding the sudden increase in gold to gem conversion. Well here's why:

    Converting gold to gems or vice versa does nothing to affect the value of either, because the total wealth in the game remains the same. There's just as much gems as they are worth in gold, and gold as worth in gems.

    The inflation we see today, driving up conversion costs, stems from players buying gems for real life money. This isn't something new and happens periodically during sales and naturally fluctuates from day to day. These "newly created" gems can now be converted into gold which increases the available total wealth in the game, meaning we have to pay more in order to maintain the inherent value of gems.

    What? That is complete bogus. Read up again.

    • First off, gems converted to gold do not "create" gold. The gold exchanged was initially delivered into the exchange by players who created the gold while playing.
    • Second, when people buy gems with real money, those gems are not yet in the games economy, they are tied to a players account and only when they enter the gem exchange do they affect the games economy (in form of changed exchange rates).
    • When gems are used on gem store items, those gems are removed from the game (in this case a players wallet) while not having been part of the exchange any more to begin with.
    • Players buying gems for real money has absolutely no effect on the exchange rates.

    @rng.1024 said:

    An easy way to look at the rate of conversion:

    • If price is dropping, this means less people are buying gems for irl money today than yesterday

    Which prices? The amount of gems purchased with real life money has absolutely NO EFFECT on the exchange rates. Only gems used in conversion into gold affect the exchange.

    @rng.1024 said:

    • If price remains stable, people are spending about the same amount of irl money on gems today as they did yesterday

    No, if gem-gold exchange remains stable it means the same amount of people are converting gems to gold as are people converting gold to gems. If either of the 2 pools sees a change in activity, the exchange value shifts.

    @rng.1024 said:

    • If price is increasing, people are buying more gems for irl money today than they did yesterday

    No, if exchange rates are increasing for less gems per gold the difference between the internal supply of gold and gems has shifted as to result in less gems versus gold. This can be caused by either more gold geting exchanged for gems (without actually less players buying gems, there might even be more players buying gems and exchanging them only that the amount of people exchanging gold is still higher) or by less players exchanging gems for gold (which is unlikely since better exchange rates would actually encourage players to exchange gems, only at a smaller ratio than players converting gold).

    @rng.1024 said:
    So as we can see we are still riding the wave of increasing gem purchases since the start of the august sale, seemingly having reached a peak. You can bet they will release new goodies on the 17th in order to maintain this all time high, however it cannot last forever. There will be droughts of new content and the conversion rate will inevitably drop as not as many keep buying gems.

    The exchange has NOTHING to do with gem purchases. The only important factor is gems to gold and gold to gem conversion.

    @rng.1024 said:
    So do not worry, converting your hard earned gold to gems will not drive up the conversion rate, if anything you are doing a favour to others who do the same keeping the price as is. And for those who do buy gems: Thank you for supporting this great company, and remember we've all been there - so don't feel bad but rather really enjoy your new shiny :)

    Source:
    https://www.reddit.com/r/Guildwars2/comments/2xtjc7/comment/cp3gd2a

    Converting gold to gems reduces the amount of gems in the supply and increases the amount of gold. As singular action, this does increase the exchange rate for gold to gems meaning the next person gets less gems per same amount of gold.

    TL;DR: you are confusing the exchange rates supply of gold and gems with the total amount of gems and gold in the game and players wallets. Those two are NOT the same.For clarification, read up here: https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Currency_exchange and check the explanation to exchange rates.

    You are assuming 100% of players convert gold to gems whenever they want something off the trading post, which simply isn't the case. If this was true, the gem to gold conversion would be abysmal compared to the other way around, and we would have an exchange rate hundreds of times higher than what we see today.

    Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

    So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money allows you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

    I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

  • I bought a bank in the promotion, but full. I would like to take back the opening of the bank I bought and give it back .gem

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @rng.1024 said:

    Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

    How much people are buying gems with real money and immediately spending on the gem store has absolutely NO EFFECT on the gems exchange. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. I've explained how the exchange works. Personal player wallets and gem purchases off the gem store have no effect on the gem pool of the exchange. The gems spent on items on the gem store do NOT go into the exhanges pool of gems. They are consumed and gone, poof, because their spending power was used to acquire something. The exchanges pools of gold and gems are only affected by EXCHANGING either currency.

    The total amount of gems in the game is no factor in the ratio between gems and gold in the exchange and was never mentioned in relationship to the exchange when ever explained by a developer.

    @rng.1024 said:
    So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money allows you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

    Yes, actually converting gems into gold WILL affect the exchange because now you are affecting both the gold supply of the exchange as well as the gem supply of the exchange. That is completely unrealted to how many gems are purchased with real money. For example, gems gained via the 5k achievement milestone have the same effect on the exchange (or no effect if used on the gem store immediately) as gems purchased with money.

    @rng.1024 said:
    I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

    That's what I'm saying, you are at the very least unclear in your wording or worst unclear on how exactly the exchange works. The wiki has a short version of the explanation which John Smith (former GW2 developer in charge of analytics and game economy) gave in the past.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Alin.2468 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    You are making assumptions which you can not prove, or which do not make even sense, given only the exchange value.

    Exactly, I have made assumptions that I can not prove. Because I can't prove them, it's exactly why they are called assumptions; hence why I used the word "maybe" as in "I do not know what will happen", therefore I made a supposition without foundation on facts or statistics, simply because I can't possibly have access on those. I know it may seem strange to you, but I will try to be blunt with you: I am not Anet staff, sorry to disappoint you; I am just another player making assumptions, for fun or for the sake of discussion.

    Winston Churchill said: "When the eagles are silent, the parrots begin to jabber" - I am just another parrot enjoying the game created by eagles watching our wallets (and this does not imply that you are an eagle either).

    Okay, let me rephrase:
    You are making assumptions which do not make sense if one looks at past behavior and how the gem exchange works. I was being polite in my original response.

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Today I just bought $35 dollars worth of gems to purchase an item that generates a gold revenue (that item i shall not mention since it is making lots of gold for me) I I have made about 600 gold in 3 days.

    With all that gold I made, I converted it to gems to purchase more items in the gems store. So, in conclusion. people invest real money in the gem store to generate more gold which then is converted to gems. Thus the reason why gold to gems is so expensive.

    Charr Warrior Master Race!
    Black Gate Beast Roamer chicken chaser!

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @rng.1024 said:

    Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

    How much people are buying gems with real money and immediately spending on the gem store has absolutely NO EFFECT on the gems exchange. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. I've explained how the exchange works. Personal player wallets and gem purchases off the gem store have no effect on the gem pool of the exchange. The gems spent on items on the gem store do NOT go into the exhanges pool of gems. They are consumed and gone, poof, because their spending power was used to acquire something. The exchanges pools of gold and gems are only affected by EXCHANGING either currency.

    The total amount of gems in the game is no factor in the ratio between gems and gold in the exchange and was never mentioned in relationship to the exchange when ever explained by a developer.

    @rng.1024 said:
    So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money allows you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

    Yes, actually converting gems into gold WILL affect the exchange because now you are affecting both the gold supply of the exchange as well as the gem supply of the exchange. That is completely unrealted to how many gems are purchased with real money. For example, gems gained via the 5k achievement milestone have the same effect on the exchange (or no effect if used on the gem store immediately) as gems purchased with money.

    @rng.1024 said:
    I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

    That's what I'm saying, you are at the very least unclear in your wording or worst unclear on how exactly the exchange works. The wiki has a short version of the explanation which John Smith (former GW2 developer in charge of analytics and game economy) gave in the past.

    Look - nobody is saying we are messing directly with the pools of the exchange, or that factors outside can mess with them so please reread if that is still unclear.

    The only thing I pointed out, is that if you already have gems (regardless of source) you are less likely having to convert from gold to gems - can we agree this stifles the gold to gem traffic? Because if so it does indeed affect the exchange rate, which is what I'm getting at however it does so indirectly since the pools themselves within the exchange aren't touched.

    Once you ignore people having gems from other sources, again while not directly influencing exhange rates, then you completely remove the need for gem to gold conversion meaning whenever something new came on the tradingpost the ratio betweem the pools would become (let's be cautios even) 25/75 - it would cost 3x times more to convert gold to gems than gems to gold. Why aren't we seeing that? Simply because total amount of gems in game decide our buying power, of which not all stem from gold conversion.

    Other than that you are just repeating what I said in your own words, which I don't mind but please actually read it through instead of tunnelvisioning on the confined pools of conversion and trying to disprove something nobody argued with you on in the first place.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @rng.1024 said:

    Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

    How much people are buying gems with real money and immediately spending on the gem store has absolutely NO EFFECT on the gems exchange. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. I've explained how the exchange works. Personal player wallets and gem purchases off the gem store have no effect on the gem pool of the exchange. The gems spent on items on the gem store do NOT go into the exhanges pool of gems. They are consumed and gone, poof, because their spending power was used to acquire something. The exchanges pools of gold and gems are only affected by EXCHANGING either currency.

    The total amount of gems in the game is no factor in the ratio between gems and gold in the exchange and was never mentioned in relationship to the exchange when ever explained by a developer.

    @rng.1024 said:
    So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money allows you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

    Yes, actually converting gems into gold WILL affect the exchange because now you are affecting both the gold supply of the exchange as well as the gem supply of the exchange. That is completely unrealted to how many gems are purchased with real money. For example, gems gained via the 5k achievement milestone have the same effect on the exchange (or no effect if used on the gem store immediately) as gems purchased with money.

    @rng.1024 said:
    I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

    That's what I'm saying, you are at the very least unclear in your wording or worst unclear on how exactly the exchange works. The wiki has a short version of the explanation which John Smith (former GW2 developer in charge of analytics and game economy) gave in the past.

    Look - nobody is saying we are messing directly with the pools of the exchange, or that factors outside can mess with them so please reread if that is still unclear.

    The only thing I pointed out, is that if you already have gems (regardless of source) you are less likely having to convert from gold to gems - can we agree this stifles the gold to gem traffic? Because if so it does indeed affect the exchange rate, which is what I'm getting at however it does so indirectly since the pools themselves within the exchange aren't touched.

    Once you ignore people having gems from other sources, again while not directly influencing exhange rates, then you completely remove the need for gem to gold conversion meaning whenever something new came on the tradingpost the ratio betweem the pools would become (let's be cautios even) 25/75 - it would cost 3x times more to convert gold to gems than gems to gold. Why aren't we seeing that? Simply because total amount of gems in game decide our buying power, of which not all stem from gold conversion.

    Other than that you are just repeating what I said in your own words, which I don't mind but please actually read it through instead of tunnelvisioning on the confined pools of conversion and trying to disprove something nobody argued with you on in the first place.

    You are leaving out 1 exchange though in your approach, and that is also one of the reasons why I prefer to not mention theoretical outside purchases:

    People buying gems and converting them to gold, which also increases while the gem-gold exchange changes to benefit gem into gold exchanges.

    Yes, obviously people spending money on gems and not exchanging will not affect the exchange. It does not require special mentioning since IT DOES NOT AFFECT the exchange. If you go as far as mentioning outside factors, you would have to mention that people are far more likely to buy gems and exchange them for gold during these spikes. Ideally, just leave this out of the equation since it is both: confusing and not directly necessary to explain what is happening.

    The exchange rates are affected by gold and gems which go into either pools. What plkayers do on the side might be interesting, but is ultimately not not relevant. Especially if we delve into issues like players "could have or should have" exchanged gems for gold. They didn't that's all that matters.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @talha.1973 said:
    I bought a bank in the promotion, but full. I would like to take back the opening of the bank I bought and give it back .gem

    Throw in a ticket to support they help with that might take afew read 3-7 days tho.

  • TheQuickFox.3826TheQuickFox.3826 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I've been doing my best by exchanging gems to gold, but I cannot fix the economy on my own. I'm not Mario Draghi with his printing press.

    But just wait until the anniversary sales are over. It will correct itself, like it has done every year after the sales.

    Ascalon Will Prevail!

    GW Wiki user page | GW2 Wiki user page

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    As they are steadily growing they are always at anytime-high ;)

    And the reason is simply that people have more and more gold

  • Zaraki.5784Zaraki.5784 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It's due to Anniversary Sales, that's all.

    "Sticks and stones may break your bones but words will never be able to injure you!"
    The Grim Adventures of Billy & Mandy

  • kharmin.7683kharmin.7683 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Complaints about high gem prices but not about gold farms. /smh

    I am a very casual player.
    Very.
    Casual.

  • rng.1024rng.1024 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @rng.1024 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @rng.1024 said:

    Let me clarify - I never said account bound gold was factored into anything, so not even sure why you bring that up. However, what is actually keeping the exchange rate increase at bay, is exactly what I mentioned - people buying gems for real money which then gets consumed instantly by the trading post. It's not factoring into the supply pools of either gold or gems for conversion (because their relative sizes remain the same no matter how much is exchanged of either) as you need to pay with one to get the other.

    How much people are buying gems with real money and immediately spending on the gem store has absolutely NO EFFECT on the gems exchange. I'm not sure why you keep mentioning this. I've explained how the exchange works. Personal player wallets and gem purchases off the gem store have no effect on the gem pool of the exchange. The gems spent on items on the gem store do NOT go into the exhanges pool of gems. They are consumed and gone, poof, because their spending power was used to acquire something. The exchanges pools of gold and gems are only affected by EXCHANGING either currency.

    The total amount of gems in the game is no factor in the ratio between gems and gold in the exchange and was never mentioned in relationship to the exchange when ever explained by a developer.

    @rng.1024 said:
    So yes it is the predominant factor here, I never argued people aren't converting more now than when the prices were lower, quite the opposite, however the in game gold supply isn't infinite leaving real life purchase of gems the limiting factor in order to not skyrocket gem prices. And as I said, buying gems for irl money allows you the option to convert them to gold, thereby affecting exchange rates.

    Yes, actually converting gems into gold WILL affect the exchange because now you are affecting both the gold supply of the exchange as well as the gem supply of the exchange. That is completely unrealted to how many gems are purchased with real money. For example, gems gained via the 5k achievement milestone have the same effect on the exchange (or no effect if used on the gem store immediately) as gems purchased with money.

    @rng.1024 said:
    I'm not sure what you're reading into, but I'm not disagreeing with what you say however I think you narrow too much down on the gem/gold pools in order to disprove something I said, when I've already accounted for that from the getgo. Also keep in mind not everyone converts, spends or stores their gems meaning they do not initially affect exchange rates, but they have the potential to do so - hence the pools aren't static resulting in them not being the single factor in determining exchange-rate.

    That's what I'm saying, you are at the very least unclear in your wording or worst unclear on how exactly the exchange works. The wiki has a short version of the explanation which John Smith (former GW2 developer in charge of analytics and game economy) gave in the past.

    Look - nobody is saying we are messing directly with the pools of the exchange, or that factors outside can mess with them so please reread if that is still unclear.

    The only thing I pointed out, is that if you already have gems (regardless of source) you are less likely having to convert from gold to gems - can we agree this stifles the gold to gem traffic? Because if so it does indeed affect the exchange rate, which is what I'm getting at however it does so indirectly since the pools themselves within the exchange aren't touched.

    Once you ignore people having gems from other sources, again while not directly influencing exhange rates, then you completely remove the need for gem to gold conversion meaning whenever something new came on the tradingpost the ratio betweem the pools would become (let's be cautios even) 25/75 - it would cost 3x times more to convert gold to gems than gems to gold. Why aren't we seeing that? Simply because total amount of gems in game decide our buying power, of which not all stem from gold conversion.

    Other than that you are just repeating what I said in your own words, which I don't mind but please actually read it through instead of tunnelvisioning on the confined pools of conversion and trying to disprove something nobody argued with you on in the first place.

    You are leaving out 1 exchange though in your approach, and that is also one of the reasons why I prefer to not mention theoretical outside purchases:

    People buying gems and converting them to gold, which also increases while the gem-gold exchange changes to benefit gem into gold exchanges.

    Yes, obviously people spending money on gems and not exchanging will not affect the exchange. It does not require special mentioning since IT DOES NOT AFFECT the exchange. If you go as far as mentioning outside factors, you would have to mention that people are far more likely to buy gems and exchange them for gold during these spikes. Ideally, just leave this out of the equation since it is both: confusing and not directly necessary to explain what is happening.

    The exchange rates are affected by gold and gems which go into either pools. What plkayers do on the side might be interesting, but is ultimately not not relevant. Especially if we delve into issues like players "could have or should have" exchanged gems for gold. They didn't that's all that matters.

    Yeah nothing wrong with you stating it as you see it. The only side-business I mentioned was exactly that, how buying your gems for real life money alleviates the need for gold to gem conversion, and thereby influences the going rates indirectly - nothing more. Even the source states the ratios are contained in the exchange so not exactly sure how that became a topic. Never did I speculate in what players do on the side, because as you say, it's irrelevant.

    Naturally the direction of conversion is the main factor here, but just saying "we have more people converting from gold to gems atm" after seeing it climb nearly 25% and stay there doesn't paint an exact picture at all, because it's simply not true the same amount of gold gets converted every day as we would then see a constantly growing inflation as the ratio difference increases - why don't we? Real life gem purchases. They make sure the conversion rate don't skyrocket and it contributes to regulate the necessary influx of new currency in the form of gold converted into gems.

    Looking only at pool ratios as a factor tells us that right now people are willing to dig deep for gems - while it's not simply the case, else this inflation we see today would have happened a long time ago.

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