Why elementalists are a half class? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why elementalists are a half class?

why elementalists are so bad? why it's only class that have one less specs because you need to be attenued at the element to work? why i can't use staff like a real mage because it's so slow with high casts time and dmg is low?

Comments

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    What do you mean by one less spec?

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  • LucianDK.8615LucianDK.8615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    Elementalists are a high damage class. And i think you are mixing up something. They have more skills than anyone else in the game due to their 4 element swapping. Having different spells on all weapons that you can toy with as you dynamically change attunements. Definitely not a half class.
    Staff is generally considered a weapon to use in groups. Dont stare yourself blind on it as the only choice.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 7, 2019

    @Mewcifer.5198 said:
    What do you mean by one less spec?

    well because you are supposed to change elements in combat but all the traits specs only work if you are attuned to that element, so you are specless if you change your element, any other class can do way more dps than a elementalist since they are slow as kitten.

    we can compare it to a fb as a exemple, fb has f1 f2 f3 plus weapon changing if they want, totalizing 5 set of skills+traits specs that synergy with them all, while a elementalist have only 4 but with traits that don't synergy.

    then we have weavers with 2 set of element skills but the specs only work for the first element even if you are attuned to 2 elements

  • Hamfast.8719Hamfast.8719 Member ✭✭✭

    Staff Elementalist is my main. (The Tempest sub-version, anyway). There are very few challenges in PvE that I have a problem with. PvP is a different story, primarily because the staff isn't a good weapon choice against targets who are smart enough to get out of my Area-of-Effect spells. But nevertheless I still get stuff done every day in World vs. World.

    Combat will mostly be Fire, but I often switch up to Earth or Water in the middle of a group event if the situation calls for it. I rarely find a whole lot of use for anything under the staff Air element other than the Tempest's Overload skill (F3).

    Being a "squishy" class, you definitely need to learn how to move, and dodge, and when to use your heal. But I personally LOVE having twice as many skills at my fingertips as any other class. Sure, you can't trait up for every element. But find the ones you like best and give those some support.

    But PLEASE... continue to complain that the staff Elementalist is bad! Maybe ANet will buff me! (They keep nerfing my Meteor Storm, even though it takes me forever to cast, I'm a motionless target while doing so, and people can just step out of the AoE... none of which is fun. But I adapt! I'm still here!)

    Build someone a fire, and they'll be warm for the rest of the day.
    Set someone on fire, and they'll be warm for the rest of their life.
    - Unknown Fire Elementalist

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @lukey.8951 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    well because you are supposed to change elements in combat but all the traits specs only work if you are attuned to that element, so you are specless if you change your element, any other class can do way more dps than a elementalist since they are slow as kitten.

    we can compare it to a fb as a exemple, fb has f1 f2 f3 plus weapon changing if they want, totalizing 5 set of skills+traits specs that synergy with them all, while a elementalist have only 4 but with traits that don't synergy.

    then we have weavers with 2 set of element skills but the specs only work for the first element even if you are attuned to 2 elements

    You should read the traits again. Not even half of them interact with the attunement mechanic, and most of those traits also have permanent boni.

    3/4 of the traits are attuned or attuning to the element, if you have water and fire specs then you need to change to water you lose half of the fire specs, if you need to change to air or earth you are specless, while others classes have it permanently

  • Mewcifer.5198Mewcifer.5198 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @lukey.8951 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    well because you are supposed to change elements in combat but all the traits specs only work if you are attuned to that element, so you are specless if you change your element, any other class can do way more dps than a elementalist since they are slow as kitten.

    we can compare it to a fb as a exemple, fb has f1 f2 f3 plus weapon changing if they want, totalizing 5 set of skills+traits specs that synergy with them all, while a elementalist have only 4 but with traits that don't synergy.

    then we have weavers with 2 set of element skills but the specs only work for the first element even if you are attuned to 2 elements

    You should read the traits again. Not even half of them interact with the attunement mechanic, and most of those traits also have permanent boni.

    3/4 of the traits are attuned or attuning to the element, if you have water and fire specs then you need to change to water you lose half of the fire specs, if you need to change to air or earth you are specless, while others classes have it permanently

    I think the idea is that you are supposed to swap attunements based on what the situation calls for.

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  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Mewcifer.5198 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @lukey.8951 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    well because you are supposed to change elements in combat but all the traits specs only work if you are attuned to that element, so you are specless if you change your element, any other class can do way more dps than a elementalist since they are slow as kitten.

    we can compare it to a fb as a exemple, fb has f1 f2 f3 plus weapon changing if they want, totalizing 5 set of skills+traits specs that synergy with them all, while a elementalist have only 4 but with traits that don't synergy.

    then we have weavers with 2 set of element skills but the specs only work for the first element even if you are attuned to 2 elements

    You should read the traits again. Not even half of them interact with the attunement mechanic, and most of those traits also have permanent boni.

    3/4 of the traits are attuned or attuning to the element, if you have water and fire specs then you need to change to water you lose half of the fire specs, if you need to change to air or earth you are specless, while others classes have it permanently

    I think the idea is that you are supposed to swap attunements based on what the situation calls for.

    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.

    In the original GW2 design, Elementalists were supposed to be "OP" in exchange for being the squishiest class in existence.

    On the GW2 page for the Elementalist, it even says "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."
    Where is this "massive damage"? Even if all traits always were active, Elementalist would still be inferior to things like Scourge and Mirage.

  • Aigleborgne.2981Aigleborgne.2981 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.

    In the original GW2 design, Elementalists were supposed to be "OP" in exchange for being the squishiest class in existence.

    On the GW2 page for the Elementalist, it even says "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."
    Where is this "massive damage"? Even if all traits always were active, Elementalist would still be inferior to things like Scourge and Mirage.

    It's just wrong, ele is amongst top DPS everywhere. Main problem is ratio DPS/sustain which is very low (read inferior to every others) and so, playing another profession give more reward for invested time. When I'm playing my ele, I do enjoy the hard mode feeling.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    It's just wrong, ele is amongst top DPS everywhere. Main problem is ratio DPS/sustain which is very low (read inferior to every others) and so, playing another profession give more reward for invested time. When I'm playing my ele, I do enjoy the hard mode feeling.

    That applies specifically to Weaver (and on rare occasions to that Fresh Air boredom) however, not to Elementalist in general.
    Arenanet needs to get off their comfort zone and make elite specs what they are supposed to be: side grades
    I want to have good DPS when not playing Weaver. I don't like Weaver.
    I don't like traits being switched on and off depending on Attunement.
    (Core) Elementalist was supposed to be a glass canon class.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

    ele gameplay is about being a half class all the time, so what's the point of having 150 power at minor adept if the skills scale at 0,1 ratio? any class can outdps a elementalist even a guardian, elementalist meteor that is supposed to be the highest dmg have random hits and low damage with a huge cast time
    then if i choose fire to spec and i change to earth i lose all my specs what is the point of having "the kit"?

    now we can look at other classes they just have 10% dmg/good buffs... at minor adept and this work with any skill

  • Jski.6180Jski.6180 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Ele is a 1/4 class as each atument should be only filling a 1/4 of a roll. The problem is there too much over lap with atuments and not enofe different effect for each atument for it to be so specialized. Fire and air are effectively the same atument earth is mostly non excitation as an atument and water is the most specialized.

    See ELE forms and you will get my views.

  • I have to say I have no Idea what is the problem. There are almost no traits that work only in specific atunement. With only 2 atunements you have same number of skills as a ckass with weaponswap. Ele is one of the best dps options, both for single target and cleave. If there is a bad class then it is not ele in my opinion.

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

    ele gameplay is about being a half class all the time, so what's the point of having 150 power at minor adept if the skills scale at 0,1 ratio? any class can outdps a elementalist even a guardian, elementalist meteor that is supposed to be the highest dmg have random hits and low damage with a huge cast time
    then if i choose fire to spec and i change to earth i lose all my specs what is the point of having "the kit"?

    now we can look at other classes they just have 10% dmg/good buffs... at minor adept and this work with any skill

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said: https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

    Now if we had some that's fun to play AND effective at the same time, instead of just Weaver and stale air.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said: https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

    Now if we had some that's fun to play AND effective at the same time, instead of just Weaver and stale air.

    So problem isnt that there is no playable ele build but that bad ele builds are not playable.
    Hmmmm
    Check ERP2. On wing 3 one guild (think snowcrows) used core dps ele. It wasnt as good as weaver/tempest but they chose it over other dpses for ban strategy.

    Thing it was staff fire,air,water or fire/arcane/water. Not sure

    Edit: and in my opinion fresh air and weavers are most fun builds ele have. Others are just too.... slow with no tricks

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:
    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.

    In the original GW2 design, Elementalists were supposed to be "OP" in exchange for being the squishiest class in existence.

    On the GW2 page for the Elementalist, it even says "What they lack in physical toughness, they make up for in versatility and the ability to inflict massive damage."
    Where is this "massive damage"? Even if all traits always were active, Elementalist would still be inferior to things like Scourge and Mirage.

    And I dont know where you get the idea that scourge and mirage have huge damage. Mirage in certain situations but scourge never

  • Also a year old video. Should be slightly weaker now but still.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Also a year old video. Should be slightly weaker now but still.

    that means nothing, first the ele is full buffed with all things possible plus static enemy, then he is on zerk build, im talking about real situations here, if someone go as ele full zerk he would die in 2 hits for any enemy even at trash mobs, then idk how he get so many hits from meteor, meteor do 2 hits every 3 sec for 3k dmg with crits in real situation, also enemies will move out of the range.
    any class fullbuffed will do the same dps plus tank at same time.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Also a year old video. Should be slightly weaker now but still.

    that means nothing, first the ele is full buffed with all things possible plus static enemy, then he is on zerk build, im talking about real situations here, if someone go as ele full zerk he would die in 2 hits for any enemy even at trash mobs, then idk how he get so many hits from meteor, meteor do 2 hits every 3 sec for 3k dmg with crits in real situation, also enemies will move out of the range.
    any class fullbuffed will do the same dps plus tank at same time.

    This is a real situation
    And for example scourge will get lower dps

    Also I am playing full zerker everywhere and if you dont get hit, then you dont die. Everything outside raids dies before it hit me and in raids, those are standard boons you have all the time.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Also a year old video. Should be slightly weaker now but still.

    that means nothing, first the ele is full buffed with all things possible plus static enemy, then he is on zerk build, im talking about real situations here, if someone go as ele full zerk he would die in 2 hits for any enemy even at trash mobs, then idk how he get so many hits from meteor, meteor do 2 hits every 3 sec for 3k dmg with crits in real situation, also enemies will move out of the range.
    any class fullbuffed will do the same dps plus tank at same time.

    This is a real situation
    And for example scourge will get lower dps

    Also I am playing full zerker everywhere and if you dont get hit, then you dont die. Everything outside raids dies before it hit me and in raids, those are standard boons you have all the time.

    this isn't, this is a raid situation only, any class will do that kind of dps with all those buffs and debuffs, do a video with only the elemental power then we can talk

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Also a year old video. Should be slightly weaker now but still.

    that means nothing, first the ele is full buffed with all things possible plus static enemy, then he is on zerk build, im talking about real situations here, if someone go as ele full zerk he would die in 2 hits for any enemy even at trash mobs, then idk how he get so many hits from meteor, meteor do 2 hits every 3 sec for 3k dmg with crits in real situation, also enemies will move out of the range.
    any class fullbuffed will do the same dps plus tank at same time.

    This is a real situation
    And for example scourge will get lower dps

    Also I am playing full zerker everywhere and if you dont get hit, then you dont die. Everything outside raids dies before it hit me and in raids, those are standard boons you have all the time.

    this isn't, this is a raid situation only, any class will do that kind of dps with all those buffs and debuffs, do a video with only the elemental power then we can talk

    No, nscourge will do 28 max for example

    Edit: also, classes are balanced around raid dps and not openworld dps. In openworld 1 or 2 skills kill every mob. I domt know what more dk you want. Ele is squishier but can kill multiple mobs with 1 skill. Usualy mobswont have time to hit you back.

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

    ele gameplay is about being a half class all the time, so what's the point of having 150 power at minor adept if the skills scale at 0,1 ratio? any class can outdps a elementalist even a guardian, elementalist meteor that is supposed to be the highest dmg have random hits and low damage with a huge cast time
    then if i choose fire to spec and i change to earth i lose all my specs what is the point of having "the kit"?

    now we can look at other classes they just have 10% dmg/good buffs... at minor adept and this work with any skill

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

    Did you check latest Elitist raid tournament or any raid run lately?...weaver is not even used anylonger, barely seeing tempest on a single boss, rest of the times is stacked dragon hunters and chronos.....

    I mean did you actually check properly the website you're trying to use? ...just look at recommended comps for each boss...do you see a single ele anywhere?

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

    ele gameplay is about being a half class all the time, so what's the point of having 150 power at minor adept if the skills scale at 0,1 ratio? any class can outdps a elementalist even a guardian, elementalist meteor that is supposed to be the highest dmg have random hits and low damage with a huge cast time
    then if i choose fire to spec and i change to earth i lose all my specs what is the point of having "the kit"?

    now we can look at other classes they just have 10% dmg/good buffs... at minor adept and this work with any skill

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

    Did you check latest Elitist raid tournament or any raid run lately?...weaver is not even used anylonger, barely seeing tempest on a single boss, rest of the times is stacked dragon hunters and chronos.....

    I mean did you actually check properly the website you're trying to use? ...just look at recommended comps for each boss...do you see a single ele anywhere?

    I raid every single day and I watched ERP3. Yes, ele wasnt used but that wasnt because ele has no damage. I provided evidence that ele Is at the top of dps. Reason why ele is not recomended is that DH/FB is very close but you can play one more DPS with them.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Aigleborgne.2981 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    yeah.. but you lose one spec line when you do that

    Seriously man, you need to look closer and think about it.
    Yes, there are some traits that gives some benefits (or more) when you are attuned to one element. But if you look closer, those benefits are generally stronger than other professions.
    Let's take Empowering Flame (minor adept in fire): +150 power when attuned to fire. Can you give me another profession with such a strong bonus in minor adept ?
    Then, all minor master are spells cast on attunments and they are great.

    Now, there is bit of contradiction between fire and air attunments (you choose either ferocity, either power) but it got improved with last patch (you now gain more benefits in fire). And unless you are using conjures, best damage skills are in fire anyway.

    Last, imagine those bonus would stay all the time, it would be OP and these traits would be nerfed.
    Ele gameplay is driven by its attunment, it's all about attuning on the right moment.

    ele gameplay is about being a half class all the time, so what's the point of having 150 power at minor adept if the skills scale at 0,1 ratio? any class can outdps a elementalist even a guardian, elementalist meteor that is supposed to be the highest dmg have random hits and low damage with a huge cast time
    then if i choose fire to spec and i change to earth i lose all my specs what is the point of having "the kit"?

    now we can look at other classes they just have 10% dmg/good buffs... at minor adept and this work with any skill

    https://snowcrows.com/benchmarks/
    Looks like ele is doing well in dps compared to the rest :D

    Did you check latest Elitist raid tournament or any raid run lately?...weaver is not even used anylonger, barely seeing tempest on a single boss, rest of the times is stacked dragon hunters and chronos.....

    I mean did you actually check properly the website you're trying to use? ...just look at recommended comps for each boss...do you see a single ele anywhere?

    I raid every single day and I watched ERP3. Yes, ele wasnt used but that wasnt because ele has no damage. I provided evidence that ele Is at the top of dps. Reason why ele is not recomended is that DH/FB is very close but you can play one more DPS with them.

    you proved nothing about top dps, you just showed someone with all the possible buffs hitting a static npc with all possibles debuffs on the game

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    you proved nothing about top dps, you just showed someone with all the possible buffs hitting a static npc with all possibles debuffs on the game

    Do you even understand the point of a benchmark? Its there to compare under equal circumstances.

  • SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    you proved nothing about top dps, you just showed someone with all the possible buffs hitting a static npc with all possibles debuffs on the game

    Do you even understand the point of a benchmark? Its there to compare under equal circumstances.

    so where is the other classes benchmark under same circumstances?

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.








    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

  • @SeikeNz.3526 said:

    @Mewcifer.5198 said:
    What do you mean by one less spec?

    well because you are supposed to change elements in combat but all the traits specs only work if you are attuned to that element, so you are specless if you change your element, any other class can do way more dps than a elementalist since they are slow as kitten.

    we can compare it to a fb as a exemple, fb has f1 f2 f3 plus weapon changing if they want, totalizing 5 set of skills+traits specs that synergy with them all, while a elementalist have only 4 but with traits that don't synergy.

    then we have weavers with 2 set of element skills but the specs only work for the first element even if you are attuned to 2 elements

    Guuuuy <3
    I loved this comment, I totally agree with this.
    When you're not attuned to fire, you'll have only half power.
    Arcane is useless, I never saw a really good build with that.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    The elementalist was my favorite in GW, so was the first avatar I made in GW2. I eventually got that squishy thing up to level 80 and never warmed up to him. Now I only log in for his birthday gifts.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    That's not how it works. DPS builds dont have constant dps all the time, the dps is spread out on big bursts and dps drops. 2 weaver builds that were spread out by only a few seconds had huge dps difference because one rotation finished at it's lowest drop while other one was in the middle of it's burst. 4 mil golem doesnt give you a realistic picture about general dps, it just serves as a standard because all dps builds can be tested under same conditions.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • @steki.1478 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    That's not how it works. DPS builds dont have constant dps all the time, the dps is spread out on big bursts and dps drops. 2 weaver builds that were spread out by only a few seconds had huge dps difference because one rotation finished at it's lowest drop while other one was in the middle of it's burst. 4 mil golem doesnt give you a realistic picture about general dps, it just serves as a standard because all dps builds can be tested under same conditions.

    Yes, you are right. It is not the same diference as I wrote. To be fair I dont play weaver (or dps) and I dont know if those builds ended on burst or not so I used a statistical method. I made an assumption that those benchmarks end not right after burst and not right before burst.
    And If you look at the MO video, that weaver is still first in dps.
    I still stand by the fact that 18 percent more DPS is huge diference.

    So to sumarise this conversation
    Eles should do huge damage because it is squishy -> ele does
    Core ele should do huge damage -> not the best but still decent numbers
    The best ele builds are complicated for their advantage -> If a build has more skills then others and still only need to use a few to be at same dps then something is wrong.
    Full berserker gear is not playable -> I play it
    Ele is squisy -> most enemies die before they touch him.

    Hope I havent forgot anything

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Its's a stance dancer class. Its not intended to have everything applied all of the time. Considering how strong some traits are, it would be absolutely OP if they were constantly applied at the same time.

    Your DPS is very good, and if you are someone who enjoys stance dancing it is extremely fun to play. Also, water attunement is basically "get out of jail card" even if you don't have any healing power meaning that is a DPS class that actually has viable healing for extreme situations, unlike most other class that predominantly rely on their healing skill.

    honestly for me playing weaver has been some of the most fun I have ever had in this game, precisely because I have to balance out between attunment buffs

  • Arheundel.6451Arheundel.6451 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    That's not how it works. DPS builds dont have constant dps all the time, the dps is spread out on big bursts and dps drops. 2 weaver builds that were spread out by only a few seconds had huge dps difference because one rotation finished at it's lowest drop while other one was in the middle of it's burst. 4 mil golem doesnt give you a realistic picture about general dps, it just serves as a standard because all dps builds can be tested under same conditions.

    Yes, you are right. It is not the same diference as I wrote. To be fair I dont play weaver (or dps) and I dont know if those builds ended on burst or not so I used a statistical method. I made an assumption that those benchmarks end not right after burst and not right before burst.
    And If you look at the MO video, that weaver is still first in dps.
    I still stand by the fact that 18 percent more DPS is huge diference.

    So to sumarise this conversation
    Eles should do huge damage because it is squishy -> ele does
    Core ele should do huge damage -> not the best but still decent numbers
    The best ele builds are complicated for their advantage -> If a build has more skills then others and still only need to use a few to be at same dps then something is wrong.
    Full berserker gear is not playable -> I play it
    Ele is squisy -> most enemies die before they touch him.

    Hope I havent forgot anything

    You're taling about perfect scenario with all possible boons applied +dmg modifier and food....against static non-attacking target, that's all nice and dandy for like 5% of the whole game, guess when it comes to golem smashing there is no better class than ele...for everything class...play an actual class

    Eles should do huge damage because it is squishy --> ele doesn't by a long shot and if it manage to top some golem smashing benchmark it's because it gave every single point in dmg still requiring perfect timing and precision ...why players should do all that when they can use a dragonhunter in total relax mode while losing few thousand point dmg?

    Seen as top raid guilds complete raids without using a single weaver...I dunno why this obnoxious obession with top DPS when it's completely worthless in the grand scheme of things?

    They nerfed greatly the dmg without actual compensation in sustain, added complexity for the sake of being complex...it's a no deal for me, ele will keep taking dust on character screen

    -A wise man once said- "Fight cheese with cheese or be cheesed in return, mind not those who will accuse you of being a cheese as they like cheese themselves"

  • @Arheundel.6451 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Already send them some posts ago but just a number might not be enough so here are videos.


    And just to be clear, all those videos are done only with boons and buffs that you actualy have in raid. Last ones are from LN, they dont use consumables in these videos but instead more buffs so the numbers should be similar.

    Here is an actual boss kill. Just check if those boons ever drop if you dont belive me

    And it is true that ele is a glass cannon. You can do huge damage but you also die quickly. In my opinion, going full damage is the way to go since there are more balanced classes that combine defense and damage. If you take more defense on ele, then something else will be better. I think that ele should go all in on the thing he does best, damage.

    39 to 33 is only 18% more.
    How much more complicated or harder is the Condition Weaver rotation compared to one of the Power Soulbeast? And how much more squishy is the Condition Weaver compared to the Power Soulbeast?

    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    That's not how it works. DPS builds dont have constant dps all the time, the dps is spread out on big bursts and dps drops. 2 weaver builds that were spread out by only a few seconds had huge dps difference because one rotation finished at it's lowest drop while other one was in the middle of it's burst. 4 mil golem doesnt give you a realistic picture about general dps, it just serves as a standard because all dps builds can be tested under same conditions.

    Yes, you are right. It is not the same diference as I wrote. To be fair I dont play weaver (or dps) and I dont know if those builds ended on burst or not so I used a statistical method. I made an assumption that those benchmarks end not right after burst and not right before burst.
    And If you look at the MO video, that weaver is still first in dps.
    I still stand by the fact that 18 percent more DPS is huge diference.

    So to sumarise this conversation
    Eles should do huge damage because it is squishy -> ele does
    Core ele should do huge damage -> not the best but still decent numbers
    The best ele builds are complicated for their advantage -> If a build has more skills then others and still only need to use a few to be at same dps then something is wrong.
    Full berserker gear is not playable -> I play it
    Ele is squisy -> most enemies die before they touch him.

    Hope I havent forgot anything

    You're taling about perfect scenario with all possible boons applied +dmg modifier and food....against static non-attacking target, that's all nice and dandy for like 5% of the whole game, guess when it comes to golem smashing there is no better class than ele...for everything class...play an actual class

    Eles should do huge damage because it is squishy --> ele doesn't by a long shot and if it manage to top some golem smashing benchmark it's because it gave every single point in dmg still requiring perfect timing and precision ...why players should do all that when they can use a dragonhunter in total relax mode while losing few thousand point dmg?

    Seen as top raid guilds complete raids without using a single weaver...I dunno why this obnoxious obession with top DPS when it's completely worthless in the grand scheme of things?

    They nerfed greatly the dmg without actual compensation in sustain, added complexity for the sake of being complex...it's a no deal for me, ele will keep taking dust on character screen

    Aned states that ele is squishy with large damage... and it is.
    In reality other options are better, sometimes because of abusing 1 more slot in raids with dh, sometimes because actualy you can have only 1/5 of that damage and still oneshot everything in openworld.
    Sustain doesnt matter (and ele has better sustain then most dps classes) because with full dps gear everything dies before it gets to you.

  • Every month we get one of these posts. It's ok, but honestly it does get old after awhile.

    Weaver is really good
    Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.
    People will always come here to complain because they made a mistake in-game and died for it. But it's the game's fault.
    Or my favourite "they nerfed meteor shower/lava font" ---- both skills are still really good! They were OP before, now they're balanced

    | Solemn [DoM][PAL][BOZ][shrd] |
    | NSP (main) | Anvil Rock (alt)

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Weaver is really good
    Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.

    And people who prefer Core Elementalist or DPS Tempest, outside of that stale Air one-trick gimmick, get left in the dust.
    I don't think Weaver and Stale Air are even half the class, more one third or maybe two fifths.

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Weaver is really good
    Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.

    And people who prefer Core Elementalist or DPS Tempest, outside of that stale Air one-trick gimmick, get left in the dust.
    I don't think Weaver and Stale Air are even half the class, more one third or maybe two fifths.

    You mean just like basicaly every core class, warrior without fast hands, dps druid, , dps scrapper and condition soulbeast without quickdraw to name a few

  • @Fueki.4753 said:

    @SoulSlavocracy.4902 said:
    Weaver is really good
    Has been really good in almost all regards since it was released with PoF.

    And people who prefer Core Elementalist or DPS Tempest, outside of that stale Air one-trick gimmick, get left in the dust.
    I don't think Weaver and Stale Air are even half the class, more one third or maybe two fifths.

    Before I say anything please know that I'm referring to the OP's post.

    why elementalists are so bad? why it's only class that have one less specs because you need to be attenued at the element to work? why i can't use staff like a real mage because it's so slow with high casts time and dmg is low?

    Doesn't seem like any of that had anything to do with elite specs but still you raise a good point so I will address it anyway.

    I agree that it would be nice if core ele and dps tempest could get a little more attention. I think DPS tempest is very possible with the right changes, I don't even think it would be that hard to implement - Tempest just needs easier access to +X%dmg uptime and a few more stacks of it.

    Core ele with the right build is quite good right now for roaming/PvP as well. It's just difficult.

    | Solemn [DoM][PAL][BOZ][shrd] |
    | NSP (main) | Anvil Rock (alt)

  • Kashrlyyk.5364Kashrlyyk.5364 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    No, it is not. If an enemy takes 10 hits to kill increasing damage by 18% reduces the amount of hits to 9. Maybe 8 if you deal burning or bleeding damage, too. But you also would have dealt that damage in the 10 hits scenario.

    So 1-2 hits less. That is NOT a huge change. Even 25% more damage is not actually that great.

  • @Kashrlyyk.5364 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    18 percent is huge.
    And yes, you get more dps because it is harder to play. Is there a problem with this?

    Lets say that a fight takes 3 minutes. Then that weaver deals 1080000 more damage.

    No, it is not. If an enemy takes 10 hits to kill increasing damage by 18% reduces the amount of hits to 9. Maybe 8 if you deal burning or bleeding damage, too. But you also would have dealt that damage in the 10 hits scenario.

    So 1-2 hits less. That is NOT a huge change. Even 25% more damage is not actually that great.

    Then you never did anything semi challanging in this game. There are times when every 100 dpscounts. I have seen fights that ended with a fail since we were missing few hundereds damage to skip certain mechanic.

  • Lord of the Fire.6870Lord of the Fire.6870 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    S/W Tempest is okay for large hitboxes also from the playstyle and rota it doable and okay but it has still 2 flaws
    1.) the dps get down a lot over time
    2.) damage on small hitboxes is also small

    Swordweaver and I will never be a friend of this built the rota is okay in compare to the other (older)builds .
    For me reason not to choose this are :
    1.) I saw countless other ele trying this build with the result they die more then any other member of our group. This including being the reason for full wipes in CMs from players with more then 200 Kp. Being 100% all the time melee as ele is insane . I only 3 players until now who really can play this build without laying on the ground all the time.
    2.) The more personal reason which I think many people has also a problem this isn't an ele I can choose reaper and feel more like an ele then with this.

  • Arkantos.7460Arkantos.7460 Member ✭✭✭
    edited October 6, 2019

    i remember since that esport thing and there were 2 grps against each other with ONLY ELES... i bet since that day ele has fkt up

  • Zhaid Zhem.6508Zhaid Zhem.6508 Member ✭✭✭

    It was the good old time of celestial, cleric, etc amulets; where ele and heal tempest shined.

  • Nath Forge Tempete.1645Nath Forge Tempete.1645 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 7, 2019

    @Arkantos.7460 said:
    i remember since that esport thing and there were 2 grps against each other with ONLY ELES... i bet since that day ele has fkt up

    well actually it has been years since ele wasn't something except for that specific staff glass canon . Other than dps , it provides anything else and wasn't replace cause too few dps could bring something else back to these days. (in WvW it has static field that was nice tho for swiftness back to the blasting zone meta)

    but then classes such as engineer and warrior brought stats buff for all the party ! and you start to see ele's reputation decreasing slowly ...

    My point is : ele has been must pick only in pve for years since celestial has been nerfed/removed. Ele has been nerfed times and times cause of that stat and the only viable thing that stayed alive after that nerf hammer was staff glass canon in pve Only. Nothing incredible in WvW nor in PvP.

    Sure you could find some gimmick surging (such as support tempest and core fresh air in pvp) but nothing as strong (or usefull) than the classic classes. And I know... i've been there in pvp trying to play my ele.

    Ele being stuck to a pure dps meter and not being usefull for anything else than provide a huge lot of regeneration is really frustrating . It lasts since 2014. Condi sword weaver was a bit of a relief but they need to make more effort with ele right now (ofc that just implies my opinion here)

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