Siege is now useless in wvw — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Siege is now useless in wvw

Amicas Freewalker.7643Amicas Freewalker.7643 Member ✭✭
edited September 12, 2019 in WvW

Siege is now useless in wvw . How do you like fields reaching up 25ft towers covering whole walk ways and halfway down the other side. Ground troops can take them out with no effort. Oh yes fight in a tower on the ground. What a joke. In old school days took 30 min to a hr just to take one tower siege battles to take down walls our gate then troops ran in to fight each other. Oh yes don't forget a knee high wall that obstructs you from firing back even if you could stand on wall to return fire, To funny thxs anet for turning one of the best games ever into a total joke.

Comments

  • Use different tactics? Like hardened siege?

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 8, 2019

    fight players learning to counter siege. pls be happy th at we leRn

    and many is supposed to be able to counter few.

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • DeadlySynz.3471DeadlySynz.3471 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @c space cowboy.2764 said:
    Use different tactics? Like hardened siege?

    So instead of siege vaporizing in 1-3 seconds it now vaporizes in 2-6 seconds? A real game changer there...

    How about this, players and siege are invulnerable until the attacker is inside the tower or keep. No more pulling off walls, no more damaging on walls, no more damaging siege from outside (unless its actual siege damage outside the structure as in a ballista, catapult, or treb). This includes being invulnerable to wells, shades, meteors, barrage and the like.

    Are people going to turtle inside of structures? Yes. Will it be primarily fight guilds that turtle inside of structures? Yes. However, if people or groups are as good as they think they are (because many think they are the greatest thing since sliced bread), it should be absolutely no problem still breaking into a structure, whether or not people lose the ability to damage or yank people off walls. Where there is a will, there is a way. Throw a bone to defenders, because currently, there is absolutely no defense against a sustaining stacked zerg on alpha/guild golems or rams, especially when you toss a shield gen in the mix. The advantage is completely in the attackers court, and the main culprit behind that is our friend the Guardian. Drastically kneecap the guardian, the groups lose a good chunk of their sustain. Losing the sustain means it will really no longer be possible to simply stack on one another and absorb all damage. Ending that will suddenly swing the advantage over to the defenders (as it should be).

    Then we will hear things like "just come out and fight", well people aren't going to come out and fight if groups persist on blobbing. If groups want the 5-10 to come out and fight, don't come to the party with 50-70, come to the party with 5-10.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Personally not a fan of turtling in structures with afk siege gameplay. Not very fun, imo.

    glad you only speak for yourself here, because I love when early WvW would have large scale fights in structures other than just Keeps and SMC.

  • It didn't take players too long to figure out that population/coverage won a matchup, cannons and mortars were useless and that the best way to defend any structure was to not be on the walls.

  • I'm sorry, but what is the complaint exactly? My melted brain can't decipher your lamentations.

    "Self awareness is knowing when you're sitting at the throne of ignorance." --Leo G.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Blood Red Arachnid.2493 said:
    I'm sorry, but what is the complaint exactly? My melted brain can't decipher your lamentations.

    conan says it best. =)

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Blocki.4931Blocki.4931 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Learn to place siege properly then

    Bite me.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Ged Kealmen.7210 said:
    I agree with you in general. Fortified positions are supposed to be a significant advantage providing few a chance to counter many. It's not supposed to be easy to just overwhelm a fortress or a fortified tower protected by arrow carts and ballistae. It's supposed to take a siege to do it, not just a bum rush. I would definitely prefer it if taking objectives required planning, patience, time, effort.

    So what exact part of this is not true for current WvW?

    T3 is still insanely strong for defense and 10-20 can delay a 50 man for a long time - often through 3+ assaults since siege gets destroyed, they get repelled, a 50 man defense force arrive, still sups available etc.

    Heaven forbid you got less than that to attack. Most small groups just bypass defended T3 because its not worth the 1+ hour it takes to finally, maybe cap it - usually because defenders got tired or busy elsewhere.

    When keeps are "easily" taken its either due to absolutely overwhelming force (70+ with 6 rams or golems or similar vs like... The 5 defenders that show up because no one says anything in chat) or due to the fact there simply isnt anyone bothering to defend. I've taken T3 spawntowers with 3 people while outmanned because no one came, the enemy zoneblob (literally no roamers) was busy.

    They hardly represent the defensive capabilities of objectives.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Rednik.3809Rednik.3809 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    Siege is fine as it is, if you know how to place it. Only thing that should be changed is more ways to deter direct assault on the objectives. Right now is NO way to stop 4+ rams and 2 shieldgens on your gates if you don't have your own zerg and invuln tactics is run out. You can have a million of ACs, trebs and catas inside - it's all doesn't matter. And if you will man the oil - damage is laughable against rams and you will eat a million condis while trying to do so.
    More damage from AC could be nice as well, because groups with FB now can literally /dance under 3+ AC fire and never go down, but that's mostly because of the absolutely absurd strength of FB+scrapper duo. Without them people are melting good enough.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    We have a similar server in NA.

  • Kamskill.9457Kamskill.9457 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    It's just stupid that people want to defend a structure in a 5v50 situation, it seems normal to you to be able to win a 5v50 (even though it's your structure) ? I really don't think it is even close to be fair.
    If 5 person can defend against 50 then how can these 50 people siege a simple tower against 20 ? How stale will the game be ? Which comm will want to tag up knowing that meeting 5 random guy will instantly give him aids just by looking at him from the top of a tower ?
    You're absolutly not looking for a fair/strategic/fun gameplay, you just want something that is an advantage to you (ppl that scouts structures), you're just being biased and selfish.
    Then you may ask "how to defenderino then ?", you can win by clouding with ~20-25 players with a few sieges against 50, seems fair to me to be able to win while being half as big as they are.

    That's my alt account btw

  • Luranni.9470Luranni.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    I don't know what you mean, my good Sir!

    cough

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Lol, well it's still better than deso that cannot do a single kitten thing in wvw :D

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Lol, well it's still better than deso that cannot do a single kitten thing in wvw :D

    Say that when you reach positive k/d :D

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Personally not a fan of turtling in structures with afk siege gameplay. Not very fun, imo.

    glad you only speak for yourself here, because I love when early WvW would have large scale fights in structures other than just Keeps and SMC.

    Probably because early wvw had a lot of people 24/7 for those large scale fights and they didnt know how to fight so they had to use siege and "strategize". Everyone was using training wheels gear (PVT - soldier) which just shows what kind of quality it really was.

    There'd still be fights inside objectives if defenders wouldn't fly off as soon as someone gets in, but sure, blame the siege.

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @cgMatt.5162 said:
    Personally not a fan of turtling in structures with afk siege gameplay. Not very fun, imo.

    glad you only speak for yourself here, because I love when early WvW would have large scale fights in structures other than just Keeps and SMC.

    Probably because early wvw had a lot of people 24/7 for those large scale fights and they didnt know how to fight so they had to use siege and "strategize". Everyone was using training wheels gear (PVT - soldier) which just shows what kind of quality it really was.

    There'd still be fights inside objectives if defenders wouldn't fly off as soon as someone gets in, but sure, blame the siege.

    The power creeped objectives is a huge part of this though, not only players. Guild halls changed the entire dynamic of objectives (to the point Anet had to boost siege just to keep WvW playable).

    I do miss the 2+ hour continous fights in garrison, where we eventually had to surrender by exhaustion. I think the lord was bannered 50+ times lol.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • aspirine.6852aspirine.6852 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @aspirine.6852 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Lol, well it's still better than deso that cannot do a single kitten thing in wvw :D

    Say that when you reach positive k/d :D

    My server is doing just fine thanks.

  • nthmetal.9652nthmetal.9652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    mmhmmm. That is very strange. My server is currently in T1 and I can swear we've been facing sizeable opposition this and last week. That would make already 3 servers with quite a lively population in this week, and since one server went down to T2 last week, and one came up from T2, that's another one. So your 2 full servers left already turned to four in just two weeks.
    Looking at the score distribution on the server tier below ours, the scores don't seem to be castly outrageous in favor of one server either. One server went down, meaning there are two others that are competing quite okay. Six servers that seem to be doing quite well on the side of vitality. And that's only from my personal experience and conclusions drawn from looking at the scores.

    Sometimes I really wonder how some peoples' perception works. Must be very selective. And what do you hope to achieve by posts filled with such negativity? Is that somehow going to win players back? How does that strategy play out in those peoples' head?
    No, we're not facing just one or two servers with quite a lively population.

    "and then we know that we have looked back through the ivory gates into that world of wonder which was ours before we were wise and unhappy"
    -- H. P. Lovecraft - Celephais

  • Sylosis.7125Sylosis.7125 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Just build more ac forehead no need to transfer server. 20 ac should be enough ?

  • Zepoolpe.9217Zepoolpe.9217 Member ✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @steki.1478 said:
    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Or just join Deso and place some ACs & a treb next to the Fire's keep lord's room to attempt (and fail) to retake it. =)

  • Voltekka.2375Voltekka.2375 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Zepoolpe.9217 said:

    @steki.1478 said:
    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Or just join Deso and place some ACs & a treb next to the Fire's keep lord's room to attempt (and fail) to retake it. =)

    Shhhhh. Deso have a fight guild move to them now, a prominent one. Hence theyre all pro fighters.

  • Luranni.9470Luranni.9470 Member ✭✭✭

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    And if we run out of mortars, we throw Rockets.

  • Optimator.3589Optimator.3589 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Siege is plenty strong if you use it properly and aren't vastly outnumbered. Forces that lose structures deserve to lose them.

    Besides, paper SMC generally yields the most fights.

    REDUCE NA TO 3 TIERS

  • Siege should be an addition to supporting players, not the only defense that's ends up so strong it deters people from even trying. Right now, its in a pretty good place. Better than it has been anyways.

  • borgs.6103borgs.6103 Member ✭✭✭

    @nthmetal.9652 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    mmhmmm. That is very strange. My server is currently in T1 and I can swear we've been facing sizeable opposition this and last week. That would make already 3 servers with quite a lively population in this week, and since one server went down to T2 last week, and one came up from T2, that's another one. So your 2 full servers left already turned to four in just two weeks.
    Looking at the score distribution on the server tier below ours, the scores don't seem to be castly outrageous in favor of one server either. One server went down, meaning there are two others that are competing quite okay. Six servers that seem to be doing quite well on the side of vitality. And that's only from my personal experience and conclusions drawn from looking at the scores.

    Sometimes I really wonder how some peoples' perception works. Must be very selective. And what do you hope to achieve by posts filled with such negativity? Is that somehow going to win players back? How does that strategy play out in those peoples' head?
    No, we're not facing just one or two servers with quite a lively population.

    I dunno, man. Last week NA had 2 full servers, 1 Very High, 8 High and 12 Medium. This week - 1 Full, 2 Very High, 7 High, 14 Medium. And people said it's gonna get better this week because Summer vacation's over and people are coming back. Doesn't look like it.

    Apathy is death.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I'm with OP in that I like strategic fights but I think anet is looking to move the game mode more towards fluid, dynamic activity so I wouldn't look to see defenses getting any buffs any time soon . . .

  • SkyShroud.2865SkyShroud.2865 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Last time is siege war. Now is blob war. I am unsure which is worse.

    Founder & Leader of Equinox Solstice [TIME], a Singapore-Based International PvX Guild
    Henge of Denravi Server
    www.gw2time.com

    --

    Explanations of WvW Structures & Populations Issues

  • @Gop.8713 said:
    I'm with OP in that I like strategic fights but I think anet is looking to move the game mode more towards fluid, dynamic activity so I wouldn't look to see defenses getting any buffs any time soon . . .

    Those word make me think of pubg or Fortnite play. Literally the only thing they could do to wvw that would make me quit the mode -- and being originally from ET and playing through some bleak times and still loving wvw that says a lot.

  • You can pull the invunerable tactivator.. use unlockable disablers.. attack siege.. flash build counter siege.. repair while invun..

    Then you realize everyone else transferred to the stacked server and there is no zergs on your team.. there will be no backup comming for the next 10 hours.. even primetime you will be outnumbered.. then you log out and wait for the announcement of alliances.. still waiting.

  • Gop.8713Gop.8713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @XatraZaytrax.2601 said:

    @Gop.8713 said:
    I'm with OP in that I like strategic fights but I think anet is looking to move the game mode more towards fluid, dynamic activity so I wouldn't look to see defenses getting any buffs any time soon . . .

    Those word make me think of pubg or Fortnite play. Literally the only thing they could do to wvw that would make me quit the mode -- and being originally from ET and playing through some bleak times and still loving wvw that says a lot.

    Well to be clear that's just my impression, it's not an officially stated anet policy afaik. But to me if you look at the nerfs to defensive siege, the mount, the reduction in tiered wall/gate strength, etc. I think there is a unifying theme of making things easier to flip and I think that was motivated by anet seeing a lot of stagnant maps where everything was tiered and sieged up so players would log in and find nothing they could flip then just log back out. But again that's just me trying to make sense of the changes, it's not something they've actually come out and said, as far as I am aware . . .

  • Henrik.7560Henrik.7560 Member ✭✭✭

    Imagine actually enjoying humping siege for hours good lord.
    Do u jam ur peepee in the mechanisms of siege equipment and get hard or something

    [eA] Sakura | Kaineng

  • steki.1478steki.1478 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Henrik.7560 said:
    Imagine actually enjoying humping siege for hours good lord.
    Do u jam ur peepee in the mechanisms of siege equipment and get hard or something

    PepeJAM ---> peepeeJAM

    (no ban pls, frogs did nothing wrong)

    Deso's favorite FROG
    Master of afk and kiting
    The God of Pips and Gud Deeps
    Froggo himself

  • even nature says that it is not ABOUT the NUMBERS.

    It's all about NUMEROLOGY.

    Guild Wars 2: Your Math Tèacher [MATH]
    Guild Wars 1: Scout of Your Math Teacher [MATH]
    Guild Wars 2: Digital Headhuntaz [aBrA]

  • @Henrik.7560 said:
    Imagine actually enjoying humping siege for hours good lord.
    Do u jam ur peepee in the mechanisms of siege equipment and get hard or something

    mmmmm hawt
    Id be down for that

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • What the original post is about is Rangers Barrage and Necro Shades hitting siege out of line of sight and out of range on some towers just because they found the sweet spot on the wall. Like Rangers taking out cannons on upper level of SMC from outer wall

  • so, siege should be able to hit players but players shouldn't be able to hit siege. riiiiiight…
    siege wars = ppl leaving.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • SWI.4127SWI.4127 Member ✭✭✭

    Don't worry most fight guilds are leaving the game. You'll soon get your wish of ultimate PvD gameplay.

  • @Sylosis.7125 said:

    @steki.1478 said:

    @Amicas Freewalker.7643 said:
    yup, figured someone would have a assume comment like yours. Hang in there with 2 full servers left. Game is rocking. To funny. Let me know next time you fight in one so I can watch and learn from your great expertise.

    Just join Gandara and learn from them. That server has mastered the use of siege and clouding in general, but sadly that's the only thing they can do.

    Just build more ac forehead no need to transfer server. 20 ac should be enough ?

    Only if you get banned forehead.

    Far Shiverpeaks
    My YT- channel: Toxilo

  • ArchonWing.9480ArchonWing.9480 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    No, badly placed siege is useless.

    If your server can't handle simple siege placement or, God Forbid, know how character skills work and fight the attackers under siege cover, then they are useless and not the siege. Thus they should lose the tower.

    Or use a banner lol

  • @c space cowboy.2764 said:
    Use different tactics? Like hardened siege?

    Siege takes damage from Conditions now remember. Scourges and Firebrands well a Reinforced Siege it doesn't matter, it dies in seconds. And it takes 5-8 Superior Arrowcarts to do enough damage to take down ONE enemy out of SIXTY? Cannons used to drop 1/4 of enemy troops, now it drops nothing, due to the severe regeneration and invulnerabilities thrown around like candy. I agree with the poster. Siege does nary a bit of damage any longer. We've been buffed up to god like proportions now making Defensive siege nearly absolutely useless.

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