For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras! — Guild Wars 2 Forums

For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
edited September 26, 2019 in PVP

Hi

I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.
  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.
  • Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a TWELVE second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.
  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.
  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.

Here are some other ones:

  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.
  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...

    • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still busted

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP. Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta. I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.

<134567

Comments

  • Blink + MoD + MoP and you're left with... death? No disengage tools (other than torch which is limited) and Jaunt if running Mirage (fairly limited as well) Core Power is fair with PU but the slightest Reveal will destroy you.

  • Fat Disgrace.4275Fat Disgrace.4275 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Mantra of distraction use to be an annoyance when that trait that turned daze into stun was alive.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Fat Disgrace.4275 said:
    Mantra of distraction use to be an annoyance when that trait that turned daze into stun was alive.

    Yes for the same reason it was op with old CI trait but both traits don't exist anymore, means the funny NA bias for that Mantra is not up to date, far away from facts and so wrong that quite the opposite is true. I always agreed to Mantra of Pain being stupid design just like FA ele and i have still no clue about the other Mantras, they don't get used... maybe for some reasons, maybe only because we have no competition and no good build crafting in this game anymore that would find an op build using these Mantras, i don't know.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LolLookAtMyAP.8394 said:
    Blink + MoD + MoP and you're left with... death? No disengage tools (other than torch which is limited) and Jaunt if running Mirage (fairly limited as well) Core Power is fair with PU but the slightest Reveal will destroy you.

    U do realize the daze and or stun u before the burst. Kinda hard to fight back when all ur skills are on forced CD. Welcome to the garbage known as gw2 pvp.

  • Ouk.5914Ouk.5914 Member ✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

    I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.

    I don't even have an issue with Death's Judgment unless it's being paired with Shadow Arts for faceroll perma stealth DJ spam. My issue with DE is the 20k Malicious Backstab build. DJ has a giant laser and sound cue so I'm mostly fine with it on the meta DA variant, though it's very annoying with quickness when it hits you for 14k.

    Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

    You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

    Like What's hard to understand? He's complaining about Mantra And Stealth. Mantra Being OP to a degree and Stealth in general just being a really really bad mechanic for this game. Imo the only spec that should be allowed to stealth should be thief's however a kitten of specs are given ability to do so.

    OP right and I agree with him I just don't think ALL of the mantra skills are that good. ON paper it reads great but stacking a butt-load of mantra doesn't do you so well on mesmer. However Mantra of Distraction and Pain are without a doubt OP and stupidly over use for 1shot specs. Imo the CD needs to be longer in order to keep them balance. Any Good mesmer main would know not to stealth DURING A fight but stealth before entering one.

  • Lighter.5631Lighter.5631 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    not going to happen, i've posted this exact same post about how mesmer one shot me in stealth out of no where months ago and months months ago
    core mechanics will not change, even it does it will take another 6 years
    cheese will always be cheese
    insta cast/teleport/slteath will always be insta cast/teleport/stealth
    this is a mmorpg after all.

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Psycoprophet.8107 said:
    U do realize the daze and or stun u before the burst. Kinda hard to fight back when all ur skills are on forced CD. Welcome to the garbage known as gw2 pvp.

    You can dodge while dazed.

    Yeah when usually when getting stealth burst by a mes u cant move so

  • Eddbopkins.2630Eddbopkins.2630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    If your invis your damage should be HALFED. You already have the advantage of garenteed hit in stealth. So to balance that out all damage done from stealth should be HALFED allowing for counter play against the invisable un-noticable hits. Imo
    Gain the ability for surprised 1st hit but do less damage? That makes sense to me from a balance stand point.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

    Every single mantra charge is instant cast. You'll hear and see the animation AFTER you get hit by them.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1036786#Comment_1036786

    I'm glad you dislike oneshot builds as well but I don't think you've fought against a mantra mesmer that knows that they're doing. They basically have a guaranteed 100-0 on anyone if they aren't bad and whiff an instant cast burst from 9 seconds of stealth.

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Kamskill.9457 said:
    Is it a troll post ? ^^

    they'd struggle to bring me below half health 3v1ing me on any non-braindead spec.

    Just look at this. The build is only acceptable if he can 3 v 1 against them.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tayga.3192 said:

    • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.

    Nobody uses it.

    Some really stupid dueling mesmer specs use this heal skill. It is one of the strongest heals in the game and was a major cause of mirage being overpowered at PoF release.

    • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.

    You mean only 4k. and relatively short might stacks.

    4k, twice. As in it hits you for 8k with a 1 second cooldown that also gives you max might stacks.

    • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.

    Nobody uses it.

    Yes, people do. It makes you immune to condis and gets abused.

    • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.

    You just said "no one uses it" yourself.

    Doesn't matter. 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a 15 second cooldown is inherently broken.

    Here are some other ones:

    • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.

    Nobody uses it.

    • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted.

    It's the only real traitline for mesmer. You actually have 2 choices in every row (except for grandmaster after CI disabling). Unlike other lines, there are choices you can actually make depending on your build/play style.

    It's broken. In fact, mesmer traitlines have ONLY strong options to pick from. And, they're conveniently placed so you can choose several strong ones in each line.

    It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
    - Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???

    Probably not a mesmer player, since it's bad.

    Flock runes bump that up to 6k healing every 12 seconds that also gives you a 1/4 uptime (or 1/2 uptime because you can reflect and cancel it to put it on a 3s cooldown omegaLUL). If you think that's bad, you're just wrong xd

    • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.

    That's why it's the 3rd chain. It's also less damage than warrior, guardian, rev, thief and ranger's 3rd chains if you have 1 boon.

    Uh huh but shatters remove boons D:

    there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still busted

    Sure.

    Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP. Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.

    So, banish oneshots into WvW?

    Banish them in WvW as well.

    And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta.

    They are not meta for a reason, lol.

    Who cares if they are meta. They are unfun to fight against and completely bloated.

    I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.

    I agree with you, but you are asking for nerfs in wrong places. What about reworking greatsword to be an actual weapon instead of oneshot niche?

    Watch Zeromis play. He doesn't play meme oneshot builds and actually uses his brain when playing this game.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.
    oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .
    oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.
    I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

    So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

    People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.
    oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .
    oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.
    I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

    So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

    People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

    it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.
    and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?
    at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

    btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.
    gl covering mantra with kiting LOL
    only way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @lightstalker.1498 said:
    Just look at this. The build is only acceptable if he can 3 v 1 against them.

    Yes because I either die in an outnumbered fight or die to a oneshot. Outnumbered fights, I can sometimes win or else I'll just kite them forever or run away. Oneshots I can't do anything to prevent as someone that's been playing at a high level in PvP since GW2's release.

    It's kind of aids that I have 7000 hours in PvP and some rando can oneshot me and nullify all of the practice/experience I've had up until this point because I don't even have a chance to fight back/see them before I'm dead. Fun.

  • kraai.7265kraai.7265 Member ✭✭✭

    LOOOOOL, you can see mirror blade coming from a mile.
    Learn how to dodge, dazes don't inmobilize.
    Learn how to play while you are at it.
    tip: one shot mesmers have no sustain at all, can be killed from 1 decent damage combo, and have no more disengage skills or offensive setups after bursting.
    And stop whinning, anet might listen to you and screw up even more.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.
    oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .
    oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.
    I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

    So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

    People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

    it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.
    and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?
    at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

    btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.
    gl covering mantra with kiting LOL
    only way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

    Shatters can remove boons.

    Also, this is getting on my nerves. Yes! Spam your Mirage Cloak like a pebble tier player to cover the entire mantra channel instead of just using it when someone tries to CC you. Nice one Silly Face.

    Literally it's like I'm trying to explain simple concepts to several different walls. If someone plays like a bot, obviously you're going to have a hard time on mantra mesmers. But if they have a brain, it's stupidly strong.

    put some brain power into your bias at the very least. nobody has to STOP THE FREAKING CHANNEL, all they ahve to do is hit you couple of times to make the channel not even worth it, whats the use of channeling stunremove mantra if you gonna lose half hp during its channel, whats the use of channeling daze mantra if you just gonna die becouse 2,5s is a LONG time to be vulnerable.

    Yes shatter can remove 1 boon, doesnt change a fact that nobody in history of anything managed to land 3rd sword hit as power mesmer on a light boonless class, unless cleaving corpse or attacking afk player.

    I find it pretty kitten hilarious that people arguing with me literally explain in detail how they misplay.

    Use YOUR brain and stand behind a god kitten wall when you're casting them if you don't want to get hit.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Few, we should do something in this forum : EVERY WHINER SHOULD GET LEGEND/PLAT3 WITH THE OP CLASS THEY WHINE ABOUT TO PROVE IT'S OP BEFORE POSTING PLEASE.

    Yes. Great. The season I got r2 was the season I played the most mesmer. I understand how it works (it's literally my 3rd most played class in PvP) and looking at the top 10 every season, Mur seems to agree. He plays mantra oneshot in the top 10 consistently.

    you are talking about 4 years ago season ? Like during the chronotank 1.0 hype ???
    Also you are in NA where everyone and his mother play mesmer ?

    https://imgur.com/ey2btNs
    https://imgur.com/a/HXmRGKS

    Literally every season I care to put in the effort I'm in the top 10.

    I also play on EU with 120-180 ping and consistently place in the top 30 (I never play enough there to have the min games played)

  • yusayu.3629yusayu.3629 Member ✭✭✭

    Not sure if this is a troll post.

  • too bad chrono can't shatter without clones anymore. used to double cast pain mantra for 24 might stacks and one shot ppl with scepter 3 lol!

    also, this:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    pebble tier

    Te lazla otstra.

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    too bad chrono can't shatter without clones anymore. used to double cast pain mantra for 24 might stacks and one shot ppl with scepter 3 lol!

    also, this:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    pebble tier

    so ranger with extra steps? xd

  • @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.
    oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .
    oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.
    I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

    So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

    People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

    it can hit for 7k, against BOONLESS LIGHT ARMOURED TARGET WITHOUT ANY TOUGHTNESS.
    and yes, you can precast mantra, but then its no longer 12 condi cleanse but 3, guess what. warrior has 6 cleanses WITH stunremove, how neat is that?
    at this point I dont even play mesmer to win, becouse its a kitten class. I just pick the most annoying kitten skills immaginable and run around pissing people off. go go whiner go.

    btw gl covering mantra with mirage cloak, LOL.
    gl covering mantra with kiting LOL
    only way you can get a mantra channel is 1, nobody even bothers attacking you, 2 you are out of combat, 3 you are stealthed.

    Shatters can remove boons.

    Also, this is getting on my nerves. Yes! Spam your Mirage Cloak like a pebble tier player to cover the entire mantra channel instead of just using it when someone tries to CC you. Nice one Silly Face.

    Literally it's like I'm trying to explain simple concepts to several different walls. If someone plays like a bot, obviously you're going to have a hard time on mantra mesmers. But if they have a brain, it's stupidly strong.

    put some brain power into your bias at the very least. nobody has to STOP THE FREAKING CHANNEL, all they ahve to do is hit you couple of times to make the channel not even worth it, whats the use of channeling stunremove mantra if you gonna lose half hp during its channel, whats the use of channeling daze mantra if you just gonna die becouse 2,5s is a LONG time to be vulnerable.

    Yes shatter can remove 1 boon, doesnt change a fact that nobody in history of anything managed to land 3rd sword hit as power mesmer on a light boonless class, unless cleaving corpse or attacking afk player.

    I find it pretty kitten hilarious that people arguing with me literally explain in detail how they misplay.

    Use YOUR brain and stand behind a god kitten wall when you're casting them if you don't want to get hit.

    its a missplay to let mesmer kitten on you spaming mantras and then let him just walk away to recharge them
    PS you are the one that thinks mirage cloak can somehow cover mantras.

  • @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    so ranger with extra steps? xd

    lol nah it was even more powerful since I could immob them with chaotic interruption. they couldn't do anything but sit there and die heh.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Lincolnbeard.1735Lincolnbeard.1735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Interrupting 2sec cast skills is too hard! Make it so if you're engange in combat mantra charge auto-interrupt itself, but only at the end of the cast!

    The degenerate

  • @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @Leonidrex.5649 said:
    so ranger with extra steps? xd

    lol nah it was even more powerful since I could immob them with chaotic interruption. they couldn't do anything but sit there and die heh.

    so ranger with extra steps, since you can point blank shot ;p

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

    Every single mantra charge is instant cast. You'll hear and see the animation AFTER you get hit by them.

    Not true, you hear and see it exactly when/during you get hit and not after and as already mentioned they daze you before the burst for the invuln stacks, means you can dodge the burst or at least most parts of the burst. Mantra of Distraction isn't needed for the oneshot at all, you can do the same and that way better with f3 even though the combo needs more timing and for that more skill than pressing 2 Mantras simultaneously. I agree to Mantra of Pain being bad design just like Fa Ele. Also my respect for double Mantra spam player is pretty low. I disagree on your opinion about Mantra of Distraction, without stun it is not a oneshot tool anymore, and not part of the problem you mention with getting oneshot out of 9 secs stealth. As a oneshot Mesmer with enough skill to do the combo with f3 instead it doesn't even make sense to equip Mantra of Distraction, it makes more sense to only use Mantra of Pain and get another disengage/ out of jail tool like Signet of Midnight, in case you fail your burst. I also explained why Mantra of Distraction needs to be instant as an useful interrupt tool but we already had this discussion and as seen it didn't lead anywhere no matter how many facts and other simple based on logic and game knowledge arguments i listed. Yes double Mantraspam oneshot Mesmers don't use it reactive, they use it only for the laughable 5 stacks of vuln and to have an easier life with casting all skills at same time without the need of any timing. For that the reward of Mantra of Distraction in those builds is pretty low and clearly not the reason the oneshot combo oneshots or for the low counterplay when it comes out of longer stacked stealth.

    You literally need 3 dodges to cover one Mantra charge completely btw. or another high cd skill (stealth, teleport out of range, 30 secs minimum), means even there is more then enough time the mesmer is highly vulnerable and can be interrupted or forced to cancel the charge by high pressure (most autoattacks are high pressure already, see Holo) you have to count that into the costs of Mantras. Or the Mesmer has to leave/ use los what leads into even more time the Mesmer has no impact during a fight and don't be surprised but most classes have more than enough mobility to easy follow the Mesmer then. The 2+ secs recharge are the reason for the shorter cds overall and that makes sense.

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Can you please not going again with your assertion of what is skilled or not ? (lol at the PU might staking :) .) We can discuss again for threads about it if you want.
    I mean a meta build with no sustain line is meh.

    Note that I'm not even considering PU build since holo passively reveal.

    Tfw you get hated by both extreme. I better stop arguing in Mesmer threads, i still have bruises from the last debate Mesmer haters and Mesmer mains struck me :anguished:

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Mantra of Recovery

    Some really stupid dueling mesmer specs use this heal skill. It is one of the strongest heals in the game and was a major cause of mirage being overpowered at PoF release.

    Well it actually has the best heal/s among mesmer heals. That doesn't really mean anything though. A lot of classes have better healing on easier to use skills. Even mesmer has better heals, lol.

    Mantra of Pain

    4k, twice. As in it hits you for 8k with a 1 second cooldown that also gives you max might stacks.

    I don't like this skill as well, but not because it's high damage. It's just a bad skill promoting oneshot play.

    Mantra of Resolve

    Nobody uses it.

    Yes, people do. It makes you immune to condis and gets abused.

    I don't get it, I only saw one person using it and he still lost to a condi build. Both on EU leaderboard.

    Mantra of Concentration

    7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a 15 second cooldown is inherently broken.

    Mesmer doesn't need any other stunbreak than blink and occassional Signet of Midnight. Not even mirage cloak's ability to dodge is needed. Maybe it should be reworked.

    Chaos line

    It's broken. In fact, mesmer traitlines have ONLY strong options to pick from. And, they're conveniently placed so you can choose several strong ones in each line.

    Dueling master tier has no good traits. Adept depends on your weapon. GM has 1 good trait.
    Chaos has 1 bad trait in adept and master each, while it has only one usable trait in grandmaster.
    Illusions has 2 good traits in adept depending on your weapon, while having only one good ones in other two.
    In Domination and Inspiration, all traits are forced take.
    Mirage has only 1 changes (if you use axe or not) and Chrono is forced take except grandmaster tier.
    This is very bad. There are no real choices except chaos.

    Mirror

    Flock runes bump that up to 6k healing every 12 seconds that also gives you a 1/4 uptime (or 1/2 uptime because you can reflect and cancel it to put it on a 3s cooldown omegaLUL). If you think that's bad, you're just wrong xd

    If you are taking flock runes you won't be oneshotting anybody. Also Mirror has a long cast time, and reflect is only good against projectiles. A lot of classes don't even have blockable projectile CC.

    Sword autoattack 3rd chain

    Uh huh but shatters remove boons D:

    Yes, so? It's not like 3rd chain hits instantly.

    About removing Berserker amulet from PvP

    Banish them in WvW as well.

    In that case I agree.

    They are not meta for a reason, lol.

    Who cares if they are meta. They are unfun to fight against and completely bloated.

    Well that depends on person. It's not like something should be nerfed because it's "unfun to play against". Mesmer as a class is supposed to be unfun to play against.

    I agree with you on one point though: Oneshot needs to go, with really precise nerfs.

    Watch Zeromis play. He doesn't play meme oneshot builds and actually uses his brain when playing this game.

    I watched a lot of mesmer players, from good to bad. I watched enough thief players too, if you know what I mean.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kraai.7265 said:
    You can still see the blade coming even if mesmer is in stealth.
    Even if i cast it right beside you, if you can't react to a greatsword flying towards you out of nowhere you are not looking at the screen. And even if you dodge late you can still evade most of the burst and the phantom.
    Have you ever tried to do that? most of the times you lose the clones intended for the one shot burst trying to do that, mesmers use diversion for safe stomps, or getting out tricky situations.
    Showing your pvp rank as if it means something, this post is a meme, don't you know that game mode is almost empty? plus the best players are gone, every idiot with a metabattle build reaches plat with enough luck, i reached plat every season during this year and i suck at this game, plus i mostly play off meta builds.
    And btw, which stealth are you crying about? the one with 30 sec cd, which gives 3 seconds? or the one with 70 sec cd which gives 6? none of them seems overpowered at all...

    Yes, you can see Mirror Blade coming if the mesmer casts it at range. However, a good mantra mesmer will cast Mirror Blade when he's standing ON TOP of you (which you won't know he's there because he's in stealth). It instantly hits you and there's no tell until after it hits. By that time, you're already dead.

    I play a variety of games and sports competitively, including shooters. I have a fast average reaction time for both visual and auditory stimuli. For example, I can dodge Hunter's Shot on ranger (ranger LB3), pre-nerf Spear of Justice (DH F1), and Infiltrator's Strike (thief S2) 100% of the time if I'm paying attention. I'm telling everyone in this thread that there is nothing for me to watch out for on the mesmer burst if they execute it properly.

    Also, Diversion is the f3 daze/stun on mesmer. You're thinking about Distortion. lol.... like I'm trying to take you seriously but you're literally mixing up skills

    My dude I've been at the top of the leaderboards since they came out.

    You can say whatever you want but I've been playing at the highest level since GW2 came out and ESL still existed.

    No, I'm talking about the 9 second AoE stealth on a 48 second cooldown that pulses defensive boons.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Not true, you hear and see it exactly when/during you get hit and not after and as already mentioned they daze you before the burst for the invuln stacks, means you can dodge the burst or at least most parts of the burst.
    You literally need 3 dodges to cover one Mantra charge completely btw. or another high cd skill (stealth, teleport out of range, 30 secs minimum), means even there is more then enough time the mesmer is highly vulnerable and can be interrupted or forced to cancel the charge by high pressure (most autoattacks are high pressure already, see Holo) you have to count that into the costs of Mantras. Or the Mesmer has to leave/ use los what leads into even more time the Mesmer has no impact during a fight and don't be surprised but most classes have more than enough mobility to easy follow the Mesmer then. The 2+ secs recharge are the reason for the shorter cds overall and that makes sense.

    Sure, the animation and sound plays as soon as you get hit. The average human reaction time is 250 ms. So, by the time you see the visual/audio cue and react to it, you're dead.

    You can literally press Diversion .0000000001 seconds right before the Mirror Blade hits and you'll get the stun pretty much at the same time the GS2 connects.

    Seriously???? lol lol lol lol lol I really struggle to comprehend why these concepts are so difficult for people to wrap their heads around.

    When I said you can cover the mantra charge with Mirage Cloak I didn't mean spamming your kitten dodges like a bot. See, what an intelligent player would do is dodge if they see a skill that can cc them during the animation. This is the second time I've had to clarify this on the thread and I'm not going to do it a third time.

    ALSO oh dear oh dear okay.... mantras are a hit and run spec, if you're facetanking a kitten teamfight Silly Face, you have no idea how to play the build. Kiting and using LoS till your burst is back up is perfectly fine if you're able to down someone every 12 seconds.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

    I have and adapted to overcome. I made friends with one and we dueled a lot. Learned a lot as well. Even main one in WvW because of it (not even meta 1 shot either)

    If you truly want to learn to deal with them, there are ways. Its easier to QQ on the forums however and demand nerfs.

    That said, what else ya got?

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

    I have and adapted to overcome. I made friends with one and we dueled a lot. Learned a lot as well. Even main one in WvW because of it (not even meta 1 shot either)

    If you truly want to learn to deal with them, there are ways. Its easier to QQ on the forums however and demand nerfs.

    That said, what else ya got?

    Fight a good mantra mesmer. By good, I mean one in the top 10 consistently.

    I've known dozens and dozens of mantra mesmers since release but there are only two that I'd consider good. Mur and CJ.

    Oh, and before you say there are good mantra mesmers in WvW. I won't disagree with you. However, there's a difference between people who roam and the people who specifically spam practice 1v1s and 1vX matchups over thousands of hours. WvW fights aren't rating locked and are a lot more sporadic than sPvP. So, you'll get better, quicker, in sPvP as a result.

    So, when I say Mur and CJ are good at mantra mesmer, I mean it's very, very difficult to kill them because they kite well using the tools provided to the class COMBINED with the fact that they can very reliably (and unpredictably) land their entire burst on you which will insta kill you if they catch you with it.

  • Bigpapasmurf.5623Bigpapasmurf.5623 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

    I have and adapted to overcome. I made friends with one and we dueled a lot. Learned a lot as well. Even main one in WvW because of it (not even meta 1 shot either)

    If you truly want to learn to deal with them, there are ways. Its easier to QQ on the forums however and demand nerfs.

    That said, what else ya got?

    Fight a good mantra mesmer. By good, I mean one in the top 10 consistently.

    I've known dozens and dozens of mantra mesmers since release but there are only two that I'd consider good. Mur and CJ.

    Oh, and before you say there are good mantra mesmers in WvW. I won't disagree with you. However, there's a difference between people who roam and the people who specifically spam practice 1v1s and 1vX matchups over thousands of hours. WvW fights aren't rating locked and are a lot more sporadic than sPvP. So, you'll get better, quicker, in sPvP as a result.

    So, when I say Mur and CJ are good at mantra mesmer, I mean it's very, very difficult to kill them because they kite well using the tools provided to the class COMBINED with the fact that they can very reliably (and unpredictably) land their entire burst on you which will insta kill you if they catch you with it.

    While I dont doubt there are or are not others as good as those 2 you mentioned (whom I havent personally encountered), however the way you constantly emphasize "good" could apply to any class/build as any "good" players would be annoying or impossible to beat, thus stressing the "good" multiple times with mantra specifically loses a bit of weight.

    Ive faced "good" holo's that are impossible to beat due to certain mechanics, "good" condi mirages, "good" weavers....etc. Who you consider good and other considered "good" is subjective as well so please watch for that as it could easily turn against you in a debate/criticism.

    Red = Dead...or someone runs away. Either way it's gone.
    twitch.tv/TRMC
    Lover of Jumping puzzles, Squirrels, WvW, and Taimi
    Co-Leader of SOmething inAPpropriate {SOAP}

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.