For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras! - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!

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  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    When I said you can cover the mantra charge with Mirage Cloak I didn't mean spamming your kitten dodges like a bot. See, what an intelligent player would do is dodge if they see a skill that can cc them during the animation. This is the second time I've had to clarify this on the thread and I'm not going to do it a third time.

    And it got already mentioned to you, that it is not only cc it can be simple autoattackspam that makes the Mesmer unable to finish the cast and cancel it duo to pressure. Also you assuming that a glass canon Mesmer always has a dodges rdy to cover the cast, as if he doesn't need to dodge at any other time. Whatever the Mesmer has to invest at least one dodge or 30+secs cd skill to cover the charge and has no impact on the fight during that. And if nothing is rdy the Mesmer has to wait out for cds to cover it or to disengage and runs around with uncharged Mantra longer than the base cd. These all are high costs. But you deny that ,what is a biased, not based on facts opinion and you will not change it no matter what ppl tell you. So keep with it and get oneshot by 2 out of how many active Mesmers playing in NA? From my experience as someone played against Mesmers i had no problem to use the recharge to my advantage, even easier in conquest when more than one player can attack him. If you don't focus a Powermes and let him snack your team 1 by 1 and disengage without following him to death it is a problem of wrong target priority. But i also know at least 10 counters to Mantra of Distraction during you feel the need to complain about it. Lifes in this game can be so different based on game knowledge...

    As said i am with you in regard to Mantra of Pain, stealthspam/stacking and Chaosline. Everything else is a l2p issue in my opinion, even though i am not a fan of oneshotbuilds and think that it is the only way for lower skilled ppl to play a Powerburstmes when they have no ability/skill to outplay ppl in a more reactive fight without being carried by passive sustain. Still as you say, only 2 Mesmers in whole NA during the life time of GW2 can play it in a way, that they are able to make it fast enough that you personally cannot react to it. What an insane high rate /s (and isn't at least Mur not accused several times of using macros by other higher skilled players knowing what they talk about? Means not the usual accuse of low skilled ppl have no clue what you can do with good keybinds and fast clickrate and reactiontime. I think i remember talks like that on more than one NA stream, among them Shorts and Zeromis)
    From your posts i would not think you are over average skilled (don't argue with the joke of lb rating pls), means no NA Mesmer can land a burst out of 3 secs stealth or without stealth fast enough to hit a rly good player aware of a Burstmes being around. NA must be heaven for everyone knows how to play vs Powermesmers...

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Trevor Boyer.6524Trevor Boyer.6524 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

    I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.

    I don't even have an issue with Death's Judgment unless it's being paired with Shadow Arts for faceroll perma stealth DJ spam. My issue with DE is the 20k Malicious Backstab build. DJ has a giant laser and sound cue so I'm mostly fine with it on the meta DA variant, though it's very annoying with quickness when it hits you for 14k.

    Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

    You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

    In all seriousness, during AT games where team play is a real thing, comps full of Mirage/Thief/Holo with a bunch of AoE stealth assist for each other, is starting to become problematic due to almost everything in the game now being capable of landing 2HKOs.

    The problem Shadow is talking about indeed occurs when stealth meets too much power creep. When this game was originally designed, stealth was designed around every class having about 1/4th the damage output that it has now. Consider this. It was designed to be able to "Get a lead on your attack" not to blow someone up in .50 seconds before they can even react to use active defensive utilities.

    I'd really also like to point out that maybe it isn't that stealth 1-2HKOs are necessarily "bRokEn OP!" as much as it is annoying and an undesirable feel for the game.

    Just something to think about ^

    I personally like the high DPS metas though, and from my point of view I'd say that it's too much stealth in the game, not so much that it's too much DPS. That's just how I feel about it.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    While I dont doubt there are or are not others as good as those 2 you mentioned (whom I havent personally encountered), however the way you constantly emphasize "good" could apply to any class/build as any "good" players would be annoying or impossible to beat, thus stressing the "good" multiple times with mantra specifically loses a bit of weight.

    Ive faced "good" holo's that are impossible to beat due to certain mechanics, "good" condi mirages, "good" weavers....etc. Who you consider good and other considered "good" is subjective as well so please watch for that as it could easily turn against you in a debate/criticism.

    Mm maybe I should clarify a little more lol

    There's a solid 15 players on NA I'd consider having top tier mechanics. WvW is a bit different but there are a lot of broken builds there because of the stats. It's easier to hide your mechanics when you're running what would be considered bunker + glass stats at the same time in PvP lol. Trailblazers is insane and there are power stat combos that make you very tanky and deal a high amount of damage as well.

    When I'm referring to good players, I'm generally talking about the best players on any given class. I'm not talking about your run-of-the-mill above average plat 2-3 player. These are players that are extremely good at PvPing in 1v1/1vX scenarios, they understand how to kite and survive, how to kill quickly and punish misplays, and rotate/snowball/counter snowball (sPvP-only). Out of these 15, there are about 8 or so that I'd have to be careful with when fighting.

    That's my definition of good. I've done a lot of GvGing for the top guilds over the years, a lot of zerg busting, running pick squads as a ranger (usually the only one in the guilds)... I used to roam a ton as well. There's only been a handful of times when I've met someone in WvW that actually was decent and those were usually sPvPers I ended up knowing and coming across randomly lol. Again, I'm not saying WvW players are bad but there's a clear difference in skill between someone who deserves to be legend/high plat 3 and everyone else. You can maybe pull up some of my old vod footage on Twitch if it's still up. I used to roam between ques to find outnumbered fights lol. Even without my ideal stat combo I was killing roaming groups of 3 or so pretty easily.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    I am literally above top 25 for days as condi rev and all I'm getting is the same people over and over which is definitely not one shot mesmer who would melt to any of my pressure, it's like you fail to understand that the only way mesmer can pressure you is being right next to you and that's not something they can achieve if you're head on brain dead about map awareness or them for that matter.

    Relevant to the video, that was two years ago and I even quoted "power shiro scrub" and you're still talking smack, I probably won more 1v1's with that 1+ build in duels than anyone has ganked me in 1v1's with my condi rev build with their predictable approach and easy free heal.

    You must be memeing to say that it's strong in 1v1 when the whole entire concept of the build falls apart if you are even aware of them.

    Yep, I know. I've seen you on the leaderboards lol

    My dude, there's barely anyone playing right now. Like 2-3 good players have been actively quing ranked this season.

    I really don't know how to get this point across... you guys think mantra mesmers are bad at 1v1s when they can literally 100-0 the other person in an instant. WATCH old 1v1 tournies (and new ones too!) in sPvP there's a very high chance a mantra mesmer beat several other decent players and made it to the finals. In one tourny, (because they didn't have a kitten bracket system) whoever won kept going till they lost. Well, great. I was the 3rd person to go and ended up 1v1ing over 30 people in Bo3s for the next 5-6 hours and beat everyone including Shorts g a m i n g before I fought CJ in the finals on berserker core mantra mesmer. That was definitely the most difficult fight in the entire tourny and I was running Druid back when it was still strong. They even removed the overtime timer because it was the finals and I ended up fighting against him for 15 minutes each round before I finally killed him. Fifteen minutes. This guy was kiting properly, setting up bursts properly... etc. etc. It was hard for me to kill him and survive.

    Also if you linked a video I didn't watch it. I'll check it out later though if you think it's important.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And it got already mentioned to you, that it is not only cc it can be simple autoattackspam that makes the Mesmer unable to finish the cast and cancel it duo to pressure. Also you assuming that a glass canon Mesmer always has a dodges rdy to cover the cast, as if he doesn't need to dodge at any other time. Whatever the Mesmer has to invest at least one dodge or 30+secs cd skill to cover the charge and has no impact on the fight during that. And if nothing is rdy the Mesmer has to wait out for cds to cover it or to disengage and runs around with uncharged Mantra longer than the base cd. These all are high costs. But you deny that ,what is a biased, not based on facts opinion and you will not change it no matter what ppl tell you. So keep with it and get oneshot by 2 out of how many active Mesmers playing in NA? From my experience as someone played against Mesmers i had no problem to use the recharge to my advantage, even easier in conquest when more than one player can attack him. If you don't focus a Powermes and let him snack your team 1 by 1 and disengage without following him to death it is a problem of wrong target priority. But i also know at least 10 counters to Mantra of Distraction during you feel the need to complain about it. Lifes in this game can be so different based on game knowledge...

    As said i am with you in regard to Mantra of Pain, stealthspam/stacking and Chaosline. Everything else is a l2p issue in my opinion, even though i am not a fan of oneshotbuilds and think that it is the only way for lower skilled ppl to play a Powerburstmes when they have no ability/skill to outplay ppl in a more reactive fight without being carried by passive sustain. Still as you say, only 2 Mesmers in whole NA during the life time of GW2 can play it in a way, that they are able to make it fast enough that you personally cannot react to it. What an insane high rate /s (and isn't at least Mur not accused several times of using macros by other higher skilled players knowing what they talk about? Means not the usual accuse of low skilled ppl have no clue what you can do with good keybinds and fast clickrate and reactiontime. I think i remember talks like that on more than one NA stream, among them Shorts and Zeromis)
    From your posts i would not think you are over average skilled (don't argue with the joke of lb rating pls), means no NA Mesmer can land a burst out of 3 secs stealth or without stealth fast enough to hit a rly good player aware of a Burstmes being around. NA must be heaven for everyone knows how to play vs Powermesmers...

    Walk. Behind. A. Wall.

    If you guys refuse to use line of sight and insist on facetanking damage and trading poorly, don't kitten tell me mantra mesmer is bad when you guys are LITERALLY telling me exactly why you guys are struggling with it.

    Dude... I play this kitten build also when I'm memeing. I'm not as good as CJ and Mur but anyone, and I mean ANYONE can 100-0 someone from stealth. It's one of the easiest combos to pull off because the other person doesn't even know you're there.

    I have pretty good map awareness. I was capping nodes last night in one match, looking around to see if there was anyone coming to contest. Nothing. There was no one. I was panning my camera around, looking at the different paths around the map. Boop! Insta dead, multiple times that game. Mantra mesmer stealthed for so long and from so far away he killed me without me knowing he was there.

    What am I supposed to do? Spam dodges randomly and use defensive cooldowns when there's nothing else except for empty space? At one point he went invis for so long he broke combat and I wasn't sure if he was still there so I had to keep dodging and trying to predict the burst after 12+ seconds of stealth. Like.... that's so kitten ridiculous. I ended up greatsword 4 blocking the burst at the end of my 4th dodge but since Mirror Blade is unblockable I was left with about 4k health regardless.

    lol I play on EU too on my alt account and consistently place in the top 30 with 120-180 ping. You guys have some magical mass-delusion that somehow EU players are better than NA. In reality, there are about the same number of actually good players over there. The only difference is that there are more average plat 2-3 players so the ques are better.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    lol I watched that video, that mesmer is extremely bad

    Do not use him as the standard for what a "good" mantra mesmer can do.

    I'm not saying Shorts is good but he's definitely better than whoever that dude was.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/962494/#Comment_962494
    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/961934/#Comment_961934
    youtube timestamp

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    My dude, there's barely anyone playing right now. Like 2-3 good players have been actively quing ranked this season.

    Since the PP Corruption update past 4 seasons I was still above/below 50 tops as condi revenant before and after the changes, give or take, the amount of "known" good players doesn't leave any relevancy to the LB positioning when you still have competent players that aren't socially tapped out, you still have those memes like Vans, Naru or Grim that just troll around in duoQ while they still tend to get their kitten handed to them when a team is competent enough, I'm not gonna say there's not less players, definitely not. There is a decline because people get tired to play the same game, whether it's ANY game. This wouldn't make GW2 anymore interesting to add content when people aren't happy with what they already have.

    Also if you linked a video I didn't watch it. I'll check it out later though if you think it's important.

    No, it's just to show 3 different ways that (as my old bad revenant) I was mitigating mesmer burst from an average player, which display how well the build is not exactly as cheesy as it used to be. I still do similar plays as condi rev if there is one but lately it's just mirage memes that I eat for breakfast as they disengage over and over.

    I was running Druid back when it was still strong

    I remember what Druid was and honestly, I don't expect you to win it even with the old bunker/bruiser meta, slow painful running around. My buddy is still making Druid work to this day which leads me to believe Anet wants people to adopt an actual Druid style, not a straight up upgrade from core which justify the nerfs. although Wisp is still uncalled for.

    If you're familiar with FPS games, you probably know of sniper rifles that kills in 1 body shot, make it the best comparison because Mesmer Burst is pretty much an AWP shot from CS. It's a cheesy crutch, but it's there and honestly more options to work around in GW2 makes it a lot less annoying if you ask me. Only a bad team in a bad game would make it look OP, I just can't visualize it, I'd have to get my kitten handed to myself to know how it is because 9 times out of 10, even if the mesmer successfully landed his burst, I was likely to survive because of various prevention such as protection.

    lol I watched that video, that mesmer is extremely bad
    Do not use him as the standard for what a "good" mantra mesmer can do.

    I did call him an average player, this just proves how the build is not as cheesy as it used to be for anyone to pick it up.

    I'm not saying Shorts is good but he's definitely better than whoever that dude was.

    Already faced Shorts, same results.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Since the PP Corruption update past 4 seasons I was still above/below 50 tops as condi revenant before and after the changes, give or take, the amount of "known" good players doesn't leave any relevancy to the LB positioning when you still have competent players that aren't socially tapped out, you still have those memes like Vans, Naru or Grim that just troll around in duoQ while they still tend to get their kitten handed to them when a team is competent enough, I'm not gonna say there's not less players, definitely not. There is a decline because people get tired to play the same game, whether it's ANY game. This wouldn't make GW2 anymore interesting to add content when people aren't happy with what they already have.
    No, it's just to show 3 different ways that (as my old bad revenant) I was mitigating mesmer burst from an average player, which display how well the build is not exactly as cheesy as it used to be. I still do similar plays as condi rev if there is one but lately it's just mirage memes that I eat for breakfast as they disengage over and over.
    I remember what Druid was and honestly, I don't expect you to win it even with the old bunker/bruiser meta, slow painful running around. My buddy is still making Druid work to this day which leads me to believe Anet wants people to adopt an actual Druid style, not a straight up upgrade from core which justify the nerfs. although Wisp is still uncalled for.
    If you're familiar with FPS games, you probably know of sniper rifles that kills in 1 body shot, make it the best comparison because Mesmer Burst is pretty much an AWP shot from CS. It's a cheesy crutch, but it's there and honestly more options to work around in GW2 makes it a lot less annoying if you ask me. Only a bad team in a bad game would make it look OP, I just can't visualize it, I'd have to get my kitten handed to myself to know how it is because 9 times out of 10, even if the mesmer successfully landed his burst, I was likely to survive because of various prevention such as protection.
    I did call him an average player, this just proves how the build is not as cheesy as it used to be for anyone to pick it up.
    Already faced Shorts, same results.

    Top 250 starts at gold last time I checked. It's not that hard to make it onto the leaderboards, but try to get one of the top 10 spots and hold it throughout the season. That's where you'll find the hardest matches where you are forced to carry or lose 30+ rating.

    Dude... that mesmer literally stealthed in front of you and walked up to you for the burst. If he mass invis'd from the mid point and blew you up as you were walking under the arch, you wouldn't have seen him coming. Also, opening with gs4 for a mantra burst is stupid.

    I wasn't playing it during the bunker meta, nor was I running a bunker build. My build had a lot of damage in it.

    Nah, shooters are different. This game auto aims for you and you don't need to aim at their body/head (depending on the game lol) to get that one shot. Either way, in games like Apex Legends, killing someone like that takes skill, but it's not very fun for the receiving end and a lot of players dislike the mechanic. Who the hell likes to die without getting a chance to fight back? The outcome would've been the same if you had just turned your monitor off and walked away from the keyboard.

    I already said Shorts isn't that good but he knows how to instagib someone and set up the stealth from out of their field of vision. Mur and CJ can actually duel with it pretty well.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    Top 250 starts at gold last time I checked. It's not that hard to make it onto the leaderboards, but try to get one of the top 10 spots and hold it throughout the season. That's where you'll find the hardest matches where you are forced to carry or lose 30+ rating.

    Already had it for a moment, don't care. Past 4 seasons goes at least one year, I've had enough influence to know that I'm good. Degrading because I want to play with friends and it shows at the end of every matches.

    Dude... that mesmer literally stealthed in front of you and walked up to you for the burst. If he mass invis'd from the mid point and blew you up as you were walking under the arch, you wouldn't have seen him coming. Also, opening with gs4 for a mantra burst is stupid.

    Average player. Meaning this build is far from OP and is required to be in good hands in a way or other.

    I wasn't playing it during the bunker meta, nor was I running a bunker build. My build had a lot of damage in it.

    Shocker, it just says you got outplayed when they don't have as many options as you do. Least IMO because I can't tell apart as apparently I never fought any good mes but those I do cause no issue at all.

    Nah, shooters are different. This game auto aims for you and you don't need to aim at their body/head (depending on the game lol) to get that one shot. Either way, in games like Apex Legends, killing someone like that takes skill, but it's not very fun for the receiving end and a lot of players dislike the mechanic. Who the hell likes to die without getting a chance to fight back? The outcome would've been the same if you had just turned your monitor off and walked away from the keyboard.

    Aiming is not hard, one shots are a crutch in any form of genres including FPS (Excluding if headshots are required), but will always exist and have a form of more complicated counter, that was the statement.

    I already said Shorts isn't that good but he knows how to instagib someone and set up the stealth from out of their field of vision. Mur and CJ can actually duel with it pretty well.

    You can name whoever that had some sort of influence, I went through all of them but CJ it seems, or maybe I have but just didn't care. I saw some good core mes that gave me a hard time a while ago but not unkillable by any means. The only thing that actually makes my mind work all this time since I'm playing this build is Spellbreaker.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236

    You misunderstood my point. You can be in the top 25 but if the top players aren't quing, you aren't going to see what some of these builds are capable of. You linked me some pleb mesmer burst that a gold player could dodge and are using it as an argument in favor of mantras? Lol, please be real here. There are zero other mesmer players asides from Mur and CJ (to a lesser extent, Shorts) that can play mantras even remotely competently on NA. Does that mean that the build itself is hard to play? No. It doesn't. I could say the same for glass core ranger. It's not inherently difficult, but only one or two people can actually pull it off at a high level.

    ???? That's literally the worst balancing logic you could possibly use. Some random gold player can't play the build properly so that means it's balanced? Nice one, Genius. That's precisely why you balance around the top players. Little Bronze Tier Jimmy can't play tools holo correctly so that must mean it's balanced right? lol

    loool... I won the 1v1 tourny against CJ's mantra mesmer. "Shocker, you got outplayed" xd you kitten admitted that the player in the video was bad yet you insist on referring to that example below-average play as the end-all-be-all of what mantra mesmer is capable of. I can't tell if you're trolling or being very, very silly right now. :)

    lol what is the counter to getting one-shot with no chance to react? Not getting one shot? Fantastic.

    Silly Face, you literally linked me a bot mesmer and told me the build is balanced because he can't play it well. D: I never said they are unkillable but they don't just keel over as soon as you apply pressure to them. It's the mantras that are unbalanced. Good players can still survive on glassy builds if they know how to play properly, but that's besides the point.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @everyman.4375

    Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

  • Quadox.7834Quadox.7834 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @everyman.4375

    Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

    Look behind + awareness? You can even see the mesmer on the minimap behind her.

    // Yanim

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

    She sure hasn't looked behind her, how could she know? Are you gonna tell me that absolutely nothing else, even some puny power shiro couldn't have caught her by surprise either while she's on all her cooldowns? Let's be real.

    Man, that base health too looking super glassy. I'm always above that for a reason. I've even fought that mesmer in that clip before but that's besides the point.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Quadox.7834 said:
    Look behind + awareness? You can even see the mesmer on the minimap behind her.

    That's a different mesmer lmao... This is precisely what I'm talking about....

    I find it hilarious that the people arguing with me are literally detailing exactly why they don't understand the issue.

    • First off, how are you supposed to "look behind" you and see the mesmer in stealth?
    • Second, how are you going to be aware of the mesmer is he's in stealth... lol that's the whole point of stealth to begin with.
    • Third, there are two mesmers on their team. The one you see on the minimap was not the one that downed her. The other mesmer was invisible, and out of combat. Both of these hide your location on the minimap.
  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    She sure hasn't looked behind her, how could she know? Are you gonna tell me that absolutely nothing else, even some puny power shiro couldn't have caught her by surprise either while she's on all her cooldowns? Let's be real.

    Man, that base health too looking super glassy. I'm always above that for a reason. I've even fought that mesmer in that clip before but that's besides the point.

    So you're telling me that if she looked behind her, she would've seen the mesmer in stealth? lol...

    And health =/= tankiness. Marauders Amulet has a lot of health but is very squishy. In this video, she was running a build I gave her using Knight's Amulet. She had 3600 armor and still got one-shot.

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    She sure hasn't looked behind her, how could she know? Are you gonna tell me that absolutely nothing else, even some puny power shiro couldn't have caught her by surprise either while she's on all her cooldowns? Let's be real.

    Man, that base health too looking super glassy. I'm always above that for a reason. I've even fought that mesmer in that clip before but that's besides the point.

    So you're telling me that if she looked behind her, she would've seen the mesmer in stealth? lol...

    And health =/= tankiness. Marauders Amulet has a lot of health but is very squishy. In this video, she was running a build I gave her using Knight's Amulet. She had 3600 armor and still got one-shot.

    Look, I'm not even gonna try to justify, explain my reasoning or lack of struggle against it anymore. Not in all of my years playing this game have I had issues against a mesmer even when they could stun and that's just my final thoughts on it, call me bad or just unable to play against anyone competent because it seems no one is ever good enough, that's all I ever hear and with that I say that nerfing them anymore would pretty much ruin the profession altogether.

    I'd have many answers as to why this hopeless situation might have turned differently for her, but overall. Just one evade was available and that's all it would have taken to avoid it, being aware is much easier to anticipate and nothing shows that the mes didn't cloak right in plain sight behind her before he came. Whenever there is one that "exists" it's the thing I always look out for with both my eyes and ears, period. Have a good day.

    Edit: To add up on video at the mesmer whether being bad or good, it clearly landed similar amount of damage that would be pretty much 1k off killing someone at 15k health, goes to show how "squishy" how marauder is but at full health still leaves a bigger window, also he was likely to be berserker himself given how phase traversal alone removed 15% of his health.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Look, I'm not even gonna try to justify, explain my reasoning or lack of struggle against it anymore. Not in all of my years playing this game have I had issues against a mesmer even when they could stun and that's just my final thoughts on it, call me bad or just unable to play against anyone competent because it seems no one is ever good enough, that's all I ever hear and with that I say that nerfing them anymore would pretty much ruin the profession altogether.

    I'd have many answers as to why this hopeless situation might have turned differently for her, but overall. Just one evade was available and that's all it would have taken to avoid it, being aware is much easier to anticipate and nothing shows that the mes didn't cloak right in plain sight behind her before he came. Whenever there is one that "exists" it's the thing I always look out for with both my eyes and ears, period. Have a good day.

    Explain what Zeromis (the best mesmer in the game) could've done differently in this situation.

    Youtube timestamp

    Do you think it's fine that he insta died from full health, completely nullifying all of his years of practice and experience, because there are builds that can stealth from so far away that you can't even see them coming, then land a completely frontloaded burst with no cast times on at least half of the skills, that can do 20k worth of damage in under a fifth of a second?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @praqtos.9035

    Unfortunately it looks like there are no good power mesmers on EU. D:

    It's not that hard to land an instant cast burst after stealthing for 9 seconds but apparently you guys just can't seem to figure it out. Very unfortunate.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1036786/#Comment_1036786

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @BadMed.3846 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:

    Few, we should do something in this forum : EVERY WHINER SHOULD GET LEGEND/PLAT3 WITH THE OP CLASS THEY WHINE ABOUT TO PROVE IT'S OP BEFORE POSTING PLEASE.

    Bold and caps lock doesn't make nonsense sound sensible. It does synbolise whining though.
    One shot is one shot capability. We don't care what tier it's in. The point is simply to get rid of the one shot builds altogether.

    I use the OP style.
    bronze whine is bronze whine. Did you know that if you remove one shot or similar on every class, we will come back again with full tank meta ? (I don't care but remember this.)

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Bigpapasmurf.5623 said:
    Cant tell if serious or just trolling

    You talk about why learn to play when learning to play is just what you need to learn how to deal with them.

    Fight a good mantra mesmer and tell me how you fight against a build that can 100-0 you from stealth without any animations to dodge. kitten the forums are incredible.

    There isn't in EU ladder so it's pretty hard to understand what you are saying.
    The rare mantra mesmer I meet aren't high at all and once they use all their mantra charge they are free food.
    Take a Holo and stealth ins't a problem at all.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @viquing.8254 said:
    There isn't in EU ladder so it's pretty hard to understand what you are saying.
    The rare mantra mesmer I meet aren't high at all and once they use all their mantra charge they are free food.
    Take a Holo and stealth ins't a problem at all.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1037705/#Comment_1037705

  • viquing.8254viquing.8254 Member ✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @viquing.8254 said:
    There isn't in EU ladder so it's pretty hard to understand what you are saying.
    The rare mantra mesmer I meet aren't high at all and once they use all their mantra charge they are free food.
    Take a Holo and stealth ins't a problem at all.

    https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1037705/#Comment_1037705

    Yeah that's probably the highest problem in this forum, NA and EU PvP are really too much different in terms of class representation...

  • Koen.1327Koen.1327 Member ✭✭✭

    can you elaborate why you're not mentioning gs and f1 even though that's 80% of the dmg?
    why delete mantras and not gs or stealth?

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Koen.1327 said:
    can you elaborate why you're not mentioning gs and f1 even though that's 80% of the dmg?
    why delete mantras and not gs or stealth?

    Mantra of Pain hits for 8k in the combo and both MoP and MoD apply 5 stacks of vulnerability each. The former also gives 12 stacks of might on a 1 second cooldown lol.

    By themselves, GS and F1 won't be enough to oneshot unless the person has the lowest hp pool class, no extra vitality, and no extra toughness.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @bravan.3876 said:
    And it got already mentioned to you, that it is not only cc it can be simple autoattackspam that makes the Mesmer unable to finish the cast and cancel it duo to pressure. Also you assuming that a glass canon Mesmer always has a dodges rdy to cover the cast, as if he doesn't need to dodge at any other time. Whatever the Mesmer has to invest at least one dodge or 30+secs cd skill to cover the charge and has no impact on the fight during that. And if nothing is rdy the Mesmer has to wait out for cds to cover it or to disengage and runs around with uncharged Mantra longer than the base cd. These all are high costs. But you deny that ,what is a biased, not based on facts opinion and you will not change it no matter what ppl tell you. So keep with it and get oneshot by 2 out of how many active Mesmers playing in NA? From my experience as someone played against Mesmers i had no problem to use the recharge to my advantage, even easier in conquest when more than one player can attack him. If you don't focus a Powermes and let him snack your team 1 by 1 and disengage without following him to death it is a problem of wrong target priority. But i also know at least 10 counters to Mantra of Distraction during you feel the need to complain about it. Lifes in this game can be so different based on game knowledge...

    As said i am with you in regard to Mantra of Pain, stealthspam/stacking and Chaosline. Everything else is a l2p issue in my opinion, even though i am not a fan of oneshotbuilds and think that it is the only way for lower skilled ppl to play a Powerburstmes when they have no ability/skill to outplay ppl in a more reactive fight without being carried by passive sustain. Still as you say, only 2 Mesmers in whole NA during the life time of GW2 can play it in a way, that they are able to make it fast enough that you personally cannot react to it. What an insane high rate /s (and isn't at least Mur not accused several times of using macros by other higher skilled players knowing what they talk about? Means not the usual accuse of low skilled ppl have no clue what you can do with good keybinds and fast clickrate and reactiontime. I think i remember talks like that on more than one NA stream, among them Shorts and Zeromis)
    From your posts i would not think you are over average skilled (don't argue with the joke of lb rating pls), means no NA Mesmer can land a burst out of 3 secs stealth or without stealth fast enough to hit a rly good player aware of a Burstmes being around. NA must be heaven for everyone knows how to play vs Powermesmers...

    Walk. Behind. A. Wall.

    If you guys refuse to use line of sight and insist on facetanking damage and trading poorly, don't kitten tell me mantra mesmer is bad when you guys are LITERALLY telling me exactly why you guys are struggling with it.

    Dude... I play this kitten build also when I'm memeing. I'm not as good as CJ and Mur but anyone, and I mean ANYONE can 100-0 someone from stealth. It's one of the easiest combos to pull off because the other person doesn't even know you're there.

    I have pretty good map awareness. I was capping nodes last night in one match, looking around to see if there was anyone coming to contest. Nothing. There was no one. I was panning my camera around, looking at the different paths around the map. Boop! Insta dead, multiple times that game. Mantra mesmer stealthed for so long and from so far away he killed me without me knowing he was there.

    What am I supposed to do? Spam dodges randomly and use defensive cooldowns when there's nothing else except for empty space? At one point he went invis for so long he broke combat and I wasn't sure if he was still there so I had to keep dodging and trying to predict the burst after 12+ seconds of stealth. Like.... that's so kitten ridiculous. I ended up greatsword 4 blocking the burst at the end of my 4th dodge but since Mirror Blade is unblockable I was left with about 4k health regardless.

    lol I play on EU too on my alt account and consistently place in the top 30 with 120-180 ping. You guys have some magical mass-delusion that somehow EU players are better than NA. In reality, there are about the same number of actually good players over there. The only difference is that there are more average plat 2-3 players so the ques are better.

    I mentioned Los and still these are cost for the recharge you just don't wanna get it as said. It is your problem though not mine in the end. I am not the one get oneshot by Mantramesmers. I can get oneshot by stealthspam (in terms of Mesmer: stealth stacking with Massinvis+ other stealthskills) builds totally can burst out of nowhere without me even knowing that a Mesmer or Thief or whatever is around. I already agreed to you about that but that has at max to do with one Mantra. You even make it clear yourself once again in your last post, that your main problem is stealthspam so you don't know that a Mesmer is even around and not the Mantra spam itself and not the Greatsword burstcombo itself. It is only the stealthspam. And you running through open doors in my case with that. All i say is that you need to clarify more what you rly complain about, you don't even know yourself it seems. Everything you write cries stealthspam yet Mantras is the topic name which have barely or even nothing to do with the oneshot and the stealthspam for the inc out of nowhere. Quite the opposite a Mesmer with 2 Mantras equipped has less stealth. You complain about a lot of things aside, where i say that is clearly a l2p issue on your side and nothing that is unbalanced. I am not the first and not the only one telling you that yet you still deny.
    As said stop arguing with lb no matter if it is EU or NA lb. I didn't say anything about general NA vs EU. It was only related to the Mesmertopic, from what you write NA seems to be Powermesmer paradise and for that also paradise for everyone who knows how to play vs Powermesmer better than you, that is all i said.

    Again, i agree with you in regard to oneshotbuilds with a lot of stealth, to Mantra of Pain and to Chaosline. Everyhting else is a l2p issue on your side and Anet should not listen because it will dumb down the class to help low skilled ppl and casuals.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:

    @Shao.7236 said:
    Look, I'm not even gonna try to justify, explain my reasoning or lack of struggle against it anymore. Not in all of my years playing this game have I had issues against a mesmer even when they could stun and that's just my final thoughts on it, call me bad or just unable to play against anyone competent because it seems no one is ever good enough, that's all I ever hear and with that I say that nerfing them anymore would pretty much ruin the profession altogether.

    I'd have many answers as to why this hopeless situation might have turned differently for her, but overall. Just one evade was available and that's all it would have taken to avoid it, being aware is much easier to anticipate and nothing shows that the mes didn't cloak right in plain sight behind her before he came. Whenever there is one that "exists" it's the thing I always look out for with both my eyes and ears, period. Have a good day.

    Explain what Zeromis (the best mesmer in the game) could've done differently in this situation.

    Youtube timestamp

    Do you think it's fine that he insta died from full health, completely nullifying all of his years of practice and experience, because there are builds that can stealth from so far away that you can't even see them coming, then land a completely frontloaded burst with no cast times on at least half of the skills, that can do 20k worth of damage in under a fifth of a second?

    Chrono is completely dead, oops.You kill fast and get killed just as fast with no means to escapes.
    He used torch 4 right at the top of the ramp where purple smoke(or sound from it) from torch 4 would be visible for Zeromis if he would actually look there.
    Look at this epic 1x1 with a holo (10-40) who had following utilities : holo wall, UTILITY GOGGLES, RIFLE TURRET? That was the best part of the video xD

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876

    Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

    I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @everyman.4375

    Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

    Wow that example cut you in your own knee bud. I mean i didn't say anything about NA vs EU and i rly don't want this discussion but i watch a lot of streams incl NA ones and i always was surprised how even highest rated NA player get oneshot easy by even obvious burst. Yet the twitch link is a good example of totally unaware gold play lvl i had in mind. No, with being totally honest this never happend to me like that.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876

    Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

    I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876

    Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

    I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

    Someone else said something like that, like half the dmg during stealth, on the first view doesn't seems like a bad idea though

    Yet still a waste of time talking to you, you just stop reading when you know there will be arguments you can't deal with. Sad and cringe

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    My last reply pretty much answers your own. We both come from different genres, I play twitch shooters like it's a living. My best reaction times goes as low at 185ms worst case being 250ms which is still below the average human. Given that this burst took one full second and half to pull off, as a herald condition, I can do 3 things;

    Press Infuse Light (Very Easy), Evade (Easy, scrap some health) Stunbreak and Shield 5 (Harder, probably lost 16k+ health over 24k). If it takes more than a second, my chances of survival are pretty high. Because the "best" mesmer in GW2 can't compensate for it doesn't mean nobody can't. I've already shown past the video that I can do so as soon as I see "anything" wrong on the screen and I can react to it and also unlike many players I have all the gear and connection to pull it off. Joke being that this isn't CSGO where I have to actually aim where I see an anomaly, here all I have to do is press ONE button (Or two) and I'm alive. I can understand it's not something people can always do, but if some people can survive through it you probably can and thus this is why I think this whole ordeal is unnecessary, if mesmer can't deal damage like they are now, they are better as being removed from the game entirely since ANYTHING can oppress them easily even if they build around sustain.

    If I ever happen to either sustain, dodge or die again to an actual mesmer burst the moment it happen, I'll personally post it to you, just for the hell of it.

    As for Naru opinion, obviously but he still plays meta like no tomorrow so what gives? One shot is by no mean all skillful but it still takes application, some people are better than others at it, like CJ. Again it's probably not meta because people are good enough at dealing with it.

    Edit: Also sharing more shorts? Why? Don't call someone bad if you have to rely on their material.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876 @Shao.7236 @Bigpapasmurf.5623 @ollbirtan.2915 @Leonidrex.5649 @viquing.8254 @lightstalker.1498 @kraai.7265 @yusayu.3629 @everyman.4375

    Tell me you'd be able to dodge this and I'll call you a liar. It's literally a kitten insta kill. There's no possibly way to avoid it if the mesmer stealths out of your range of vision before the burst.

    https://clips.twitch.tv/SpikyHungryCaterpillarArsonNoSexy

    Wow that example cut you in your own knee bud. I mean i didn't say anything about NA vs EU and i rly don't want this discussion but i watch a lot of streams incl NA ones and i always was surprised how even highest rated NA player get oneshot easy by even obvious burst. Yet the twitch link is a good example of totally unaware gold play lvl i had in mind. No, with being totally honest this never happend to me like that.

    So you're telling me EU players all have wall hacks?

    How was Zeromis supposed to see Shorts if he stealthed halfway between mid and the node he was on.

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @bravan.3876 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876

    Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

    I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @bravan.3876

    Stealth should nullify all damage modifiers on the player outside of boons. No more oneshots on any class from stealth. EZ

    I didn't really read the rest of what you wrote but I can both play the build and fight against them as long as I can see them. I just ran a few matches on zerker mantra and I was nuking people left and right. It's stupidly easy to set up the burst with Mass Invis/Torch 4. If you agree that stealth oneshots are stupid, great.

    Someone else said soemthing like that, like half the dmg during stealth, on the first view doesn't seems like a bad idea tho

    Yet still a waste of time talking to you, you just stop reading when you know there will be argumants you can't deal with. Sad and cringe

    No I just don't feel like reading walls of texts from forum tier players when I have other stuff to do (like getting ready in the morning).

    tldr EU players have no idea how to play mesmer and stealth oneshots are busted

  • shadowpass.4236shadowpass.4236 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Shao.7236 said:

    My last reply pretty much answers your own. We both come from different genres, I play twitch shooters like it's a living. My best reaction times goes as low at 185ms worst case being 250ms which is still below the average human. Given that this burst took one full second and half to pull off, as a herald condition, I can do 3 things;

    Press Infuse Light (Very Easy), Evade (Easy, scrap some health) Stunbreak and Shield 5 (Harder, probably lost 16k+ health over 24k). If it takes more than a second, my chances of survival are pretty high. Because the "best" mesmer in GW2 can't compensate for it doesn't mean nobody can't. I've already shown past the video that I can do so as soon as I see "anything" wrong on the screen and I can react to it and also unlike many players I have all the gear and connection to pull it off. Joke being that this isn't CSGO where I have to actually aim where I see an anomaly, here all I have to do is press ONE button (Or two) and I'm alive. I can understand it's not something people can always do, but if some people can survive through it you probably can and thus this is why I think this whole ordeal is unnecessary, if mesmer can't deal damage like they are now, they are better as being removed from the game entirely since ANYTHING can oppress them easily even if they build around sustain.

    If I ever happen to either sustain, dodge or die again to an actual mesmer burst the moment it happen, I'll personally post it to you, just for the hell of it.

    As for Naru opinion, obviously but he still plays meta like no tomorrow so what gives? One shot is by no mean all skillful but it still takes application, some people are better than others at it, like CJ. Again it's probably not meta because people are good enough at dealing with it.

    Edit: Also sharing more shorts? Why? Don't call someone bad if you have to rely on their material.

    I play shooters as well. I started off in competitive Black Ops. I currently compete in Apex Legends pro scrims/tournaments and I used to play Fortnite pretty competitively. But I'm not going to drop names obviously.

    Good reaction time btw. Mine is around 180-185.

    Dude, you can't see the burst coming from stealth lol. The time you have to react is the time it takes for you to see the first hit from Mirror Blade and the time you're dead. Which, because Mind Wrack, MoP, and MoD are all instant cast, you're pretty much dead as soon as you see the first damage number.

    You wouldn't be able to pop Infuse Light while you're stunned/dazed btw. So, you'd die in that scenario.

    If Shorts isn't good, yet he can still 100-0 one of the best players in the game, use your imagination and think about how much more frequently Mur and CJ could do it.

    Mur one shotting Helio

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    @praqtos.9035

    Unfortunately it looks like there are no good power mesmers on EU. D:
    It's not that hard to land an instant cast burst after stealthing for 9 seconds but apparently you guys just can't seem to figure it out. Very unfortunate.

    To be a good power mesmer they should play PU core mesmer? Didnt know that /s

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    Infuse Light is "instant" cast, just like evade. You're talking about the Facet itself, which I always leave on because Healing Power and Elder's Respite, people who don't are bad heralds for not having their saving grace available to themselves, it's the most overpowered heal skill in the game, though Riposting Shadows was actually the cure to the old mantra stun since you couldn't evade out of that.

    Trust me, you can do it if you're ready for it, if it's not for instantly doing it as fast as it come, you will come alive hurt.. But alive.

    Edit: I mean if people fall for the same trick over and over with the proper tools there's clearly a problem.

  • praqtos.9035praqtos.9035 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    Do you even realize how stupid it was from him to go there into 3 people alone, dont even using photon wall or invul elixir because he has reaction of a slug? And how ridiculous are you looking by actually post it ? He got punished for his arrogance.

  • Is this the classic Domi, dueling chaos Chrono build with mantra of pain, mantra of distraction blink, decoy and signet of midnight?

    In all seriousness though. Chrono has been removed from PvP. And while power mirage can be viable (I queue with probably the strongest power mesmer in eu atm and we sit in top 10 currently. Me on core guard) it's nowhere near as godly as you make it out to be.

    Also, removing core guard from the game? Did you miss the past 3 patches?
    A duelist demo slb can burst just as hard with quickness axe 5. I guess that's fine though. Core ranger with speed runes can crit for 16k with gazelle. These aren't even "one shot builds"

    Just because you don't like a genre of builds doesn't mean they should get deleted.
    I absolutely hate fighting side node rangers and soulbeast. I hate fighting defense spellbreaker. Chaos mirages and Holos of all sorts, but especially prot Holos. I hated fighting scrappers and Chrono bunker 2.0. I really don't like these sustainy builds as i think they are incredibly bloated with defense while still having comparable damage to burst builds ratio wise.

    While I don't like the way mantra of pain is used, they are kinda pidgeonholed into running it at this point.

    Also, do you just want to remove the entire mesmer class? It's already not great, (outside of this unbeatable godly power version). You don't want them to run power, you don't want them to run chaos.
    That leaves dueling illusion Condi mirage.

    ~ God Tier Guardian

  • not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • Tayga.3192Tayga.3192 Member ✭✭✭

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

    The discussion is about the skill of the one getting oneshot, not the oneshoter. Otherwise I agree, it's easy if you don't have high ping.

  • @Tayga.3192 said:

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    not sure why skill is being discussed at length here. the mantra burst can be done by basically anyone.

    The discussion is about the skill of the one getting oneshot, not the oneshoter. Otherwise I agree, it's easy if you don't have high ping.

    as long as one shot builds exist people will fall victim to them and claim no counter play, and they're not far off. those types of builds are bad design imo and should go.
    also I can still pull it off with high ping.

    Te lazla otstra.
    nerf list

  • apharma.3741apharma.3741 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    As usual Shadowpass is exaggerating his claims, the heal mantra takes about 15s to fully cycle not 12s and using the charges above 50% health only heals for 1.6k so you're more likely to get 6.5-7.5k healing per 15s from it. That is if you're not getting interrupted, easy on mirage but try core/chrono and GL.

    The 2 offensive mantra's are kind of dumb, low skill, high reward.

    Thing is, is it any more out of line than the rest of the spamfiesta that is the game at the moment?

  • i 100% agree with shadow about mantra mes. Your burst from stealth isn't telegraphed believe it or not. Especially when you do it behind something and they don't see you coming. Mantra mesmer isn't interactive at all. Mantra of pain is a spammy no skill skil that does at least 3k on average. Mantra of distraction was super aids with CI. And berserker amulet should be removed because the most obnoxious builds use that amulet to maximize dps. Mantra mes mains can cry all they want saying x mesmer build is no skill but everyone but you guys agrees that mantra mes is not skillful at all. And you couldn't play a single other mesmer build besides that build.

  • bravan.3876bravan.3876 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daishi.6027 said:

    @shadowpass.4236 said:
    one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

    Biggest bunch of BS and alone is proof of how lacking you are.

    Outside of portal mesmer blinks once ever 30 seconds for 1200 range, and if mirage that's plus a couple jaunts and a couple leaps at the cost of endurance, and then MAYBE you get half way across the map, and that's more than enough for you to see them coming.

    Most mesmers, particularly one shot builds carry around 5-6 seconds of steath. Two of which have massive tells, and one consisting of a signet which is not only a give away among clones, but lets you know that he has it. The only really sneaky one is Decoy which A. makes a clone, and B. has a 40 second cooldown.

    The entire burst combo can be avoided by 1 dodge and has a 3/4 second windup, and unlike thief can't evade spam (because mesmer adheres to the same average number of defensive cooldowns, and flat out less than any medium class.)

    You say "No tell", but that "no tell" is your own lack of awareness for the map or your opponent. No one's fault other than your own if you can't anticipate a combo in at most a relatively short 5-6 second window while knowing that they need to end a 3/4 cast at a specific distance if they want to one shot.

    This is super easy to play around window of stealth, and has more than enough leeway to punish whiffs.
    (imagine if thief played by this rule.)

    Also one shot builds don't run chaos. You NEED MA in dom and and SC in dueling to one shot anyone who isn't an ele or thief who is typing.
    and by the by, if they have 2 mantras, they only have 3 seconds of stealth on demand.

    Coremesmer can pretty easy oneshot ppl with taking Chaosline in addition to Domination/Duelling. And after Chrono nerfs you find them a lot even in EU. Also the problem is, that Coremesmers are forced to use Massinvis (for the lack of other good elites) during Mirages mostly run Jaunt. And these core builds can stack stealth for a very long time , too long time, and they also can go back in stealth more often. In addition Chaos adds passive boonsustain very strong vs power builds.

    There are reasons why most oneshot heroes played old chrono pre nerf with double Mantra carried by Lost Time giving double instant cast dmg now switch to Core and not to Mirage. Powercoremes and in particular Chaosline core is way easier to play and has more burst than Powermirage what is the strongest when played as utility based spec with clones on dodge and interrupt trait instead the dmg traits. Powermirage is a lot more reactive when played with these traits, also with Zeromis kind of spammy double signet build. Even Zeromis build needs to outplay ppl way more than a stealthspam oneshot or a double intant-dmg Mantra oneshot Chrono pre nerf. Both builds carry lower skilled player still want to play power and not condi for whatever reasons.
    The problem mostly isn't the amount of burst dmg itself, it is the combination of high dmg combined with braindead mechanics like high instant dmg on max range (double Mantra+Lost Time) or the abuse of stealth (Core chaosline). For most Powermesmer i met ingame it is simple as that: They play these carried by broken mechanics oneshot builds because they cannot outplay ppl on a glassy spec and for that run a nonreactive build to compensate that missing skill. Ofc not impressive and these meme oneshot builds are clearly not the only "viable", they are just easier than not-oneshot-powerbuilds. I mean i am hypocrite to judge because when i play Mesmer i play condi but tbh these kind of oneshot builds are not that far away from the noobcarry lvl of a Condimirage who only needs to dodge on a safe spot and let clones do all the work. Both are barley reactive and have easy to apply dmg, only the punishment for mistakes is higher on power oneshot builds (not rly when using chaosline though). But without Chaosline/ Lost Time (old Chrono), Mantra of Pain and Massinvis i barely see a problem.

    "playing revenant is borderline exploiting" - up condimirage 2k18

  • asterix.9614asterix.9614 Member ✭✭✭

    I like the op.

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