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For the Love of God, Delete Mesmer Mantras!


shadowpass.4236

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Hi

I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.

  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.
  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.
  • Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a TWELVE second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.
  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.
  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.

Here are some other ones:

  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.
  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
    • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.

etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still busted

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP. Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta. I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.

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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Blink + MoD + MoP and you're left with... death? No disengage tools (other than torch which is limited) and Jaunt if running Mirage (fairly limited as well) Core Power is fair with PU but the slightest Reveal will destroy you.

They don't need to blink if they can stealth for 9 seconds at a completely different node and walk up to you without you knowing. And how are you supposed to reveal the mesmer if he's been in stealth for ages? Not only did he stealth from so far away you couldn't even see the animation, but the majority of reveal skills require a target.

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@Fat Disgrace.4275 said:Mantra of distraction use to be an annoyance when that trait that turned daze into stun was alive.

Yes for the same reason it was op with old CI trait but both traits don't exist anymore, means the funny NA bias for that Mantra is not up to date, far away from facts and so wrong that quite the opposite is true. I always agreed to Mantra of Pain being stupid design just like FA ele and i have still no clue about the other Mantras, they don't get used... maybe for some reasons, maybe only because we have no competition and no good build crafting in this game anymore that would find an op build using these Mantras, i don't know.

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@bravan.3876 said:Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.

I don't even have an issue with Death's Judgment unless it's being paired with Shadow Arts for faceroll perma stealth DJ spam. My issue with DE is the 20k Malicious Backstab build. DJ has a giant laser and sound cue so I'm mostly fine with it on the meta DA variant, though it's very annoying with quickness when it hits you for 14k.

Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.

I don't even have an issue with Death's Judgment unless it's being paired with Shadow Arts for faceroll perma stealth DJ spam. My issue with DE is the 20k Malicious Backstab build. DJ has a giant laser and sound cue so I'm mostly fine with it on the meta DA variant, though it's very annoying with quickness when it hits you for 14k.

Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

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@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Blink + MoD + MoP and you're left with... death? No disengage tools (other than torch which is limited) and Jaunt if running Mirage (fairly limited as well) Core Power is fair with PU but the slightest Reveal will destroy you.

U do realize the daze and or stun u before the burst. Kinda hard to fight back when all ur skills are on forced CD. Welcome to the garbage known as gw2 pvp.

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@bravan.3876 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.

I don't even have an issue with Death's Judgment unless it's being paired with Shadow Arts for faceroll perma stealth DJ spam. My issue with DE is the 20k Malicious Backstab build. DJ has a giant laser and sound cue so I'm mostly fine with it on the meta DA variant, though it's very annoying with quickness when it hits you for 14k.

Builds that can one-shot you from stealth WITHOUT any reasonable indication, animation, or sound cue that you can dodge NEED to get deleted. They do not belong in this game.

You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

Like What's hard to understand? He's complaining about Mantra And Stealth. Mantra Being OP to a degree and Stealth in general just being a really really bad mechanic for this game. Imo the only spec that should be allowed to stealth should be thief's however a shitload of specs are given ability to do so.

OP right and I agree with him I just don't think ALL of the mantra skills are that good. ON paper it reads great but stacking a butt-load of mantra doesn't do you so well on mesmer. However Mantra of Distraction and Pain are without a doubt OP and stupidly over use for 1shot specs. Imo the CD needs to be longer in order to keep them balance. Any Good mesmer main would know not to stealth DURING A fight but stealth before entering one.

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  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.Nobody uses it.

  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.You mean only 4k. and relatively short might stacks.

  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.Nobody uses it.

  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.You just said "no one uses it" yourself.

Here are some other ones:

  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.Nobody uses it.

  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted.

    It's the only real traitline for mesmer. You actually have 2 choices in every row (except for grandmaster after CI disabling). Unlike other lines, there are choices you can actually make depending on your build/play style.

It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...

  • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???Probably not a mesmer player, since it's bad.
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.That's why it's the 3rd chain. It's also less damage than warrior, guardian, rev, thief and ranger's 3rd chains if you have 1 boon.

there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still bustedSure.

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP. Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.So, banish oneshots into WvW?

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta.

They are not meta for a reason, lol.

I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.I agree with you, but you are asking for nerfs in wrong places. What about reworking greatsword to be an actual weapon instead of oneshot niche?

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@"Tayga.3192" said:

  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown. Fun.Nobody uses it.
  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a
    ONE
    second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.You mean
    only
    4k. and relatively short might stacks.
  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game.
    FULL CONDITION REMOVAL
    on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.Nobody uses it.
  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways.
    DOUBLE STUN BREAK
    7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a
    FIFTEEN
    second cooldown. Amazing.You just said "no one uses it" yourself.

Here are some other ones:
  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.Nobody uses it.
  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted.

    It's the only real traitline for mesmer. You actually have 2 choices in every row (except for grandmaster after CI disabling). Unlike other lines, there are choices you can actually make depending on your build/play style.

It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
  • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???Probably not a mesmer player, since it's bad.
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy.
    That's why it's the 3rd chain. It's also less damage than warrior, guardian, rev, thief and ranger's 3rd chains if you have 1 boon.

there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still bustedSure.

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP.
Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.So, banish oneshots into WvW?

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta.

They are not meta for a reason, lol.

I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of
learning how to play the game
if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.I agree with you, but you are asking for nerfs in wrong places. What about reworking greatsword to be an actual weapon instead of oneshot niche?

thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

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not going to happen, i've posted this exact same post about how mesmer one shot me in stealth out of no where months ago and months months agocore mechanics will not change, even it does it will take another 6 yearscheese will always be cheeseinsta cast/teleport/slteath will always be insta cast/teleport/stealththis is a mmorpg after all.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:

@bravan.3876 said:Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

I will continue to make threads every time I get 100-0'd by bs oneshots from stealth.You better change your amulet to paladin, should be better.

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If your invis your damage should be HALFED. You already have the advantage of garenteed hit in stealth. So to balance that out all damage done from stealth should be HALFED allowing for counter play against the invisable un-noticable hits. ImoGain the ability for surprised 1st hit but do less damage? That makes sense to me from a balance stand point.

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@"bravan.3876" said:You should think about what you wanna cry about before starting a thread then. You cry about Mantras but you mean stealthspam oneshot builds which have nothing to do with Mantras and are not even Mesmer only. Mantras have a sound and an animation (this mandala thing on the ground), Mantra of Distraction can be used to predict a burst, just dodge when you get dazed. GS2 has a tell even out of stealth. A mesmer with only 3 secs stealth is predictable and easy to counter. The problem starts with stacked stealth. I mean i'm on your side with the stealthspam oneshot builds including the (chasoline) core Mesmer build. It is braindead low skill carry, none reactive and unhealthy.

Every single mantra charge is instant cast. You'll hear and see the animation AFTER you get hit by them.

https://en-forum.guildwars2.com/discussion/comment/1036786#Comment_1036786

I'm glad you dislike oneshot builds as well but I don't think you've fought against a mantra mesmer that knows that they're doing. They basically have a guaranteed 100-0 on anyone if they aren't bad and whiff an instant cast burst from 9 seconds of stealth.

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Honestly if you have slow reactions and no awareness at all, sure it's OP.

But when you know there's a one shot mesmer that exists, they are useless and can only chip you at best.

If you get ganked to mes burst in 1v1, it's part of the game and on you to be self aware their unability to do anything but gank.

I can't seem to find any mesmers that one shot nowadays and when I do they are always disengaging or downstate because of how they have to hug you with Mirror Blade and self shatter to do any decent damage.

Personally on any professions you should have a tool that prevents you from being gibbed so easily and that doesn't count the fact you can still evade.

If a mesmer goes for the actual kill, they will use all stealth, port to you, prepare mantra of pain then mirror blade mash mantras with shatters.

The actual last time I got to fight a mesmer that is one shot in ranked is.. A while ago, honestly I haven't felt the need to ever record them again as they are no issue to me;

These are like, super obvious ambushes from plat 1 when I was a power shiro scrub which was before the nerf. Since the nerf to stun, being able to evade in daze just made them 200% weaker to people that knows how to deal with em, if you are to just blatantly claim that they are that OP, I'd like to disagree entirely.

I hated them before, still do but there is a level of understanding to it and if you can't figure it out, improve because the last thing this game needs is nerf to a core profession, Mirage actually loses potential for sustain compared Core too, which means you should be able to deal with em even more easily since rarely anyone touches Core.

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@shadowpass.4236 said:Hi @Irenio CalmonHuang.2048 @"Ben Phongluangtham.1065"

I'm tired of getting one-shot from stealth because the mesmer stealthed halfway across the map and insta-killed me with ZERO tells or any chance to react.Are we talking about Ranger or Holo ?

  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a TWELVE second cooldown. Fun.Yeah now count the heal/clics or test it live and come back here please. there is a reason nobody run it pass gold.

  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a ONE second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.4k instant damage is nothing in the current meta.

  • Mantra of Distraction is busted. Two, instant cast, 1200 range, 1.5 second dazes on a TWELVE second cooldown that also recharges Diversion by 15 seconds. Insanity.You still can evade, and it has an icd.

  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game. FULL CONDITION REMOVAL on a TWELVE second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.GIVE ME PASSIVE CONDICLEAR IN USUAL ROTATION LIKE EVERY OTHER META BUILD PLEASE. Most other class didn't even need to take an utility to condiclear it's done passively by trait/rotation.

  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways. DOUBLE STUN BREAK 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a FIFTEEN second cooldown. Amazing.Yeah no one use it, thanks bye.Here are some other ones:

  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.This trait already over nerfed.

  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted. It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...

    • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a TWELVE second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???Mirror was already nerfed by having his reflect halved by trait. The heal/sec is bad.
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy. It can crit for 7k.Which is harder to land than other melee auto for relatively the same damage.etc. etc. etc. etc. etc. there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still bustedetc etc etc, cry cry a mesmer kill me, go nerf it so I can feel strong...And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta. I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of learning how to play the game if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.You know that if the mesmer didn't take chaos he will do way more damage, isn't it ?

@bravan.3876 said:

@Kamskill.9457 said:Is it a troll post ? ^^

Give him credit for not giving up even though it is somehow cringy that he restarts with it after his last 200 page thread ppl told him what is op and what not. All low gold ppl will happily jump on his train once again :joy:

@"LolLookAtMyAP.8394" said:Blink + MoD + MoP and you're left with... death? No disengage tools (other than torch which is limited) and Jaunt if running Mirage (fairly limited as well) Core Power is fair with PU but the slightest Reveal will destroy you.

They don't need to blink if they can stealth for 9 seconds at a completely different node and walk up to you without you knowing. And how are you supposed to reveal the mesmer if he's been in stealth for ages? Not only did he stealth from so far away you couldn't even see the animation, but the majority of reveal skills require a
target.

I don't see a relation to Mantras (except for Mantra of Pain, is there any Mesmer main defending that skill?). A Coremesmer (also with Chaosline) can oneshot you without using a single Mantra, using Mantra of Distraction is even worse because the f3 stun will secure your oneshot way more than the daze from Mantra. The problem is, as always, Chaosline still being a noobcarry line only supporting low effort, low skill gameplay (PU in that case in addition to the whole passive defense nature + mightstacks) and that Coremesmer can stack stealth with Massinvis, because they don't have another good elite. Still less stealth duration and harder to hit burst with more cds used than a DE. But yeah both builds are problematic, none reactive and easy to play indeed. Stealthspam is the problem here.

Can you please not going again with your assertion of what is skilled or not ? (lol at the PU might staking :) .) We can discuss again for threads about it if you want.I mean a meta build with no sustain line is meh.

Note that I'm not even considering PU build since holo passively reveal.

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@"Tayga.3192" said:

  • Mantra of Recovery is busted. It gives between a 6555 and 8515 heal on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown. Fun.Nobody uses it.Some really stupid dueling mesmer specs use this heal skill. It is one of the strongest heals in the game and was a major cause of mirage being overpowered at PoF release.
  • Mantra of Pain is bloated. 12 might stacks on a
    ONE
    second cooldown that can crit you twice for 4k damage each. Fun.You mean
    only
    4k. and relatively short might stacks.4k, twice. As in it hits you for 8k with a 1 second cooldown that also gives you max might stacks.
  • Mantra of Resolve is literally one of the strongest utilities in the game.
    FULL CONDITION REMOVAL
    on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown that also cleanses 6 more conditions afterwards. Fantastic.Nobody uses it.Yes, people do. It makes you immune to condis and gets abused.
  • No one uses Mantra of Concentration but it's overpowered anyways.
    DOUBLE STUN BREAK
    7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a
    FIFTEEN
    second cooldown. Amazing.You just said "no one uses it" yourself.Doesn't matter. 7 stacks of stability, aegis, and quickness on a 15 second cooldown is inherently broken.

Here are some other ones:
  • Prismatic Understanding is busted. Remove the Aegis and Protection at the very least.Nobody uses it.
  • Honestly, as a whole, the entire Chaos Traitline is busted.

    It's the only real traitline for mesmer. You actually have 2 choices in every row (except for grandmaster after CI disabling). Unlike other lines, there are choices you can actually make depending on your build/play style.It's broken. In fact, mesmer traitlines have ONLY strong options to pick from. And, they're conveniently placed so you can choose several strong ones in each line.

It can make some utilities egregiously overpowered. For example...
  • Mirror is busted. 4.3k heal and 3 seconds of reflect on a
    TWELVE
    second cooldown. Like seriously???? Who designed this stuff???Probably not a mesmer player, since it's bad.Flock runes bump that up to 6k healing every 12 seconds that also gives you a 1/4 uptime (or 1/2 uptime because you can reflect and cancel it to put it on a 3s cooldown omegaLUL). If you think that's bad, you're just wrong xd
  • The third part of the auto chain on Sword does as much damage as the entirety of Blurred Frenzy.
    That's why it's the 3rd chain. It's also less damage than warrior, guardian, rev, thief and ranger's 3rd chains if you have 1 boon.Uh huh but shatters remove boons D:

there are more skills but I don't feel like listing them right now tldr mesmer is still bustedSure.

Oh, and please remove Berserker Amulet from sPvP.
Only one-shot builds use it and it's not fun, nor skillful, nor interactive for either party.So, banish oneshots into WvW?Banish them in WvW as well.

And before I get a bunch of G W 2 p l a y e r s telling me that mantras aren't even meta.

They are not meta for a reason, lol.Who cares if they are meta. They are unfun to fight against and completely bloated.

I literally couldn't care less. What's the point of
learning how to play the game
if someone can just delete you instantly without even trying.I agree with you, but you are asking for nerfs in wrong places. What about reworking greatsword to be an actual weapon instead of oneshot niche?

Watch Zeromis play. He doesn't play meme oneshot builds and actually uses his brain when playing this game.

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@Leonidrex.5649 said:thanks for debunking some of it, after reading throught all the nitpicking i couldnt force myself to care, love how he doesnt mention that you have to charge mantras for 2,5s to get the value, but i will contribute some for the fun of it : DONT MIND ME MRS CONDI THIEF, IM CHARGING MY 2,5S MANTRA TO REMOVE YOUR CONDITIONS, NOTHING TO SEE HERE MOVE ALONG.oh and mirrors healing, assuming you spam it off cooldown it will still heal less then warriors passive heal from signet :D .oh and nice 7k hit from sword chain on a light dummy with no boons, heavy target with protection would have taken 1,5k dmg from that hit.I wonder if anyone in the history of entire GW2 managed to land sword chain 3 on light class without boons in pvp, its propably more likely to get hit by that stupid djins meteor thing then the third sword chain lel.

So you're saying you can't precast your mantras in spawn/before a fight or cover the cast time with Mirage cloak, stealth, body blocking with clones, super speed, blind, cc, distort, mirage mirrors, stability, or line of sight. Nice.

People who don't use auto attacks are bad. The fact that it can hit for 7k means you're losing out on a lot of damage. Also, that means you're relying solely on oneshots to kill someone which means you're part of the problem.

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