why some nerf are not in wvw — Guild Wars 2 Forums

why some nerf are not in wvw

Lala.8752Lala.8752 Member ✭✭✭

like endure pain for warrior, roiling mist and 5 staff for guard, MI for guardian and proba others.
I understand that we have a different balance for pve and wvw/pvp but not between wvw and pvp because wvw = pvp.

Comments

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I feel that EP and MI are fine in WvW. Condis still affect the Warrior and there are plenty of those thrown around. MI for Guardian is on a long enough cooldown and is based on helping someone who has already been beaten. I'd prefer they have that slotted than a potentially more effective utility that would help their friend not even get downed in the first place.

    Rolling Mists and SoTM I agree wholeheartedly. There's no reason RM should be as effective as it is, especially after the direction they went with Guardian's Righteous Instincts. SoTM is already a very potent CC with no tell and an evade, and is often used from 1000-1200 range. There is no reason it should also take away 75% of a player's hp.

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  • Clownmug.8357Clownmug.8357 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    The pvp version of Rolling Mists is unacceptable in its current form. Vicious Quarry does the same thing plus 250 ferocity bonus and gain fury on hit below 75% health. Also most traits where the only thing they do is increase crit chance by a small amount are minor or adept level, not grandmaster.

  • zinkz.7045zinkz.7045 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 9, 2019

    @Lala.8752 said:
    I understand that we have a different balance for pve and wvw/pvp but not between wvw and pvp because wvw = pvp.

    A 5v5, capture point mode, on small maps, with lots of LOS, etc has very different balance and design requirements from WvW, that is why so much stuff is broken in WvW.

  • XenesisII.1540XenesisII.1540 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Because wvw is 100% pve mode and 33% pvp mode, therefore pve changes over ride pvp changes. The only time you get a change is when the rogue janitor who plays wvw permastealths into their systems room and manages to sneak a change in.

    Another derailing post ^ - Anet
    "Is there pvp stuff for this?" - "Absolutely, eh we actually have a new armor set coming soon." - "Woo!"
    "From the back of the room!, the one pvp fan! we got him! WaH!"
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  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If someone is taking away 75% of your health then may I ask what in YOUR glass build needs to be nerfed in exchange?

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Nice deflection. But this is about SotM. Should this ability be instant, a CC, an evade AND do 75% of a glass player's hp? Should it be able to do all that and 50% hp of a player with adequate toughness and vitality (which it does currently)?

    If you feel there are other abilities from other professions that were rightfully nerfed in PvP and should have those nerfs brought to WvW, feel free to add them to this thread.

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Nice deflection. But this is about SotM. Should this ability be instant, a CC, an evade AND do 75% of a glass player's hp? Should it be able to do all that and 50% hp of a player with adequate toughness and vitality (which it does currently)?

    If you feel there are other abilities from other professions that were rightfully nerfed in PvP and should have those nerfs brought to WvW, feel free to add them to this thread.

    It only does that damage if it lands pinpoint perfect... And idk where this instant talk is coming from, if it were instant the evade would be of useless duration. The best way to land that perfect sotm is to use phase traversal but that has a cast time and a huge energy cost so that really is not even remotely instant. And cc, well that is what causes the damage but gl doing damage with this skill against someone with stability up or even something as simple as aegis. You just fly right through them. Yeah it's a strong skill but like everyone who has ever complained about it has never used it beyond stationary spvp golems.

    Go and try to land 5 sotm back to back in WvW (against players...) for 50% of someone's hp and get back to me how this skill needs a 50% damage nerf in WvW. I mean lol... Time to crack out the pistol whip thief build if sotm is too scary.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • Hitman.5829Hitman.5829 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Endure pain in WvW has been discussed many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many times. And Anet stance has always been that because WvW is a massive battleground and warrior is a front line melee class, warrior needs to have endure pain as it is in order to survive. Those who play warrior in WvW know well that a nerf to endure pain will lead to a complete destruction of the warrior class since warrior survival as a front line fighter and as a melee class come directly from endure pain.

    Why is this so hard to understand? Look at what happened in PvP with the nerf to endure pain from 4 sec to 2 sec, in a 5 vs 5 battle, endure pain does not have a significant effect for warrior survival. Imagine if this nerf was applied to WvW 50 vs 50.

    With its current 4 sec duration and 60 sec cool-down, endure pain can receive as much as 30k+ damage from leeching on serg fights; that is enough to kill the warrior even when endure pain is active. I have been on fights where I activate my endure pain + berserker stance and as soon as I get hit by the enemy serg my warrior explodes and dies instantly. I then open the damage log and I see that I got hit for like 30K+ life siphoning damage.

    So, thank you for your suggestion, but endure pain does not need a nerf, what it needs is a buff from 4 sec to 6 seconds. And if this seems too much, well we are in WvW not in a 1 vs 1 battleground.

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  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Hitman.5829 said:
    Endure pain in WvW has been discussed many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many many times. And Anet stance has always been that because WvW is a massive battleground and warrior is a front line melee class, warrior needs to have endure pain as it is in order to survive. Those who play warrior in WvW know well that a nerf to endure pain will lead to a complete destruction of the warrior class since warrior survival as a front line fighter and as a melee class come directly from endure pain.

    Why is this so hard to understand? Look at what happened in PvP with the nerf to endure pain from 4 sec to 2 sec, in a 5 vs 5 battle, endure pain does not have a significant effect for warrior survival. Imagine if this nerf was applied to WvW 50 vs 50.

    With its current 4 sec duration and 60 sec cool-down, endure pain can receive as much as 30k+ damage from leeching on serg fights; that is enough to kill the warrior even when endure pain is active. I have been on fights where I activate my endure pain + berserker stance and as soon as I get hit by the enemy serg my warrior explodes and dies instantly. I then open the damage log and I see that I got hit for like 30K+ life siphoning damage.

    So, thank you for your suggestion, but endure pain does not need a nerf, what it needs is a buff from 4 sec to 6 seconds. And if this seems too much, well we are in WvW not in a 1 vs 1 battleground.

    Yeah a warrior without double endure pain is just fodder. They shouldn't be pigeonholed into the defense line like that but they are sadly. Makes warrior pretty boring to play in the long run and boring to fight when you can literally stow your weapon for 4 seconds when playing a power build against them. Something anet should have found a solution to long ago.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • SotM is strong but have its problems. And evadeframe isnt 100% i was stunned or hitted many times while "surging". It works on ppl who doesnt move. If xou move a bit its prety hard zo do whole chain, you are lucky if you hit once.
    RM needs to be nerfed to pvp version even in pve move to the adept level instead of "get fury after heal skill". And then give us proper GM trait. In wvw zerging as dps this is only choice.

    Jokaurene

  • Offair.2563Offair.2563 Member ✭✭✭

    @XenesisII.1540 said:
    Because wvw is 100% pve mode and 33% pvp mode, therefore pve changes over ride pvp changes. The only time you get a change is when the rogue janitor who plays wvw permastealths into their systems room and manages to sneak a change in.

    So the whole mode is 133%. No wonder anet doesnt work at it cause its more then perfect.

    Don't argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and own you with experience.
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  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Justine.6351 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Nice deflection. But this is about SotM. Should this ability be instant, a CC, an evade AND do 75% of a glass player's hp? Should it be able to do all that and 50% hp of a player with adequate toughness and vitality (which it does currently)?

    If you feel there are other abilities from other professions that were rightfully nerfed in PvP and should have those nerfs brought to WvW, feel free to add them to this thread.

    It only does that damage if it lands pinpoint perfect... And idk where this instant talk is coming from, if it were instant the evade would be of useless duration. The best way to land that perfect sotm is to use phase traversal but that has a cast time and a huge energy cost so that really is not even remotely instant. And cc, well that is what causes the damage but gl doing damage with this skill against someone with stability up or even something as simple as aegis. You just fly right through them. Yeah it's a strong skill but like everyone who has ever complained about it has never used it beyond stationary spvp golems.

    Go and try to land 5 sotm back to back in WvW (against players...) for 50% of someone's hp and get back to me how this skill needs a 50% damage nerf in WvW. I mean lol... Time to crack out the pistol whip thief build if sotm is too scary.

    SotM is instant cast, you must not be familiar with Revenant. Either that or don't understand that instant cast and ability duration are separate here. If a Rev presses Staff5 in melee range, there is no visual tell that happens fast enough for a human to react before the first hit.

    How difficult of a time you seem to have landing the ability has no bearing on how overloaded it should be. Instant, CC, Evade, incredibly high damage. Death's Judgement is still complained about, yet it's the single most easy skill in the game to avoid. Does it still do too much damage? Yes. Just because you can't always land the skill doesn't mean it should have the potential to do as much damage as it does.

    There is a reason this was nerfed in sPvP, and that reason is the same it should be nerfed in WvW. Nobody is complaining about this skill in zerg battles, because that's not where it's effective. But it sure is overloaded for where it is used - small scale fights akin to sPvP fights.

    Fort Aspenwood
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  • Turkeyspit.3965Turkeyspit.3965 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Turk.5460 said:
    SotM is instant cast

    @Turk.5460 said:
    you must not be familiar with Revenant.

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Either that or don't understand that instant cast and ability duration are separate here.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Activation_time

    Teach us more senpai.

    Unless of course I'm wrong in my understanding of the above, in which case, please correct me, as afterall, I'm not a veteran...

  • Turk.5460Turk.5460 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Turkeyspit.3965 said:

    @Turk.5460 said:
    SotM is instant cast

    @Turk.5460 said:
    you must not be familiar with Revenant.

    @Turk.5460 said:
    Either that or don't understand that instant cast and ability duration are separate here.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Surge_of_the_Mists
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Activation_time

    Teach us more senpai.

    Unless of course I'm wrong in my understanding of the above, in which case, please correct me, as afterall, I'm not a veteran...

    You are apparently not a veteran, otherwise you would know that Surge of the Mists is activated immediately upon pressing the button, regardless of what the Wiki, which is written by players, says about the tooltip indicator. The 1s "activation timer" in this skill is how long the skill lasts for: how long you spin and attack whilst evading forward dealing CC and Damage. Sit down.

    Edit: Here. This was an incredibly hard search to find on youtube, so be thankful I did it for you. Pay attention to what happens when the buttons are pressed.

    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
    https://wiki.guildwars2.com/wiki/Channeled_skill
    :3

    Fort Aspenwood
    Jekkies

  • @Lala.8752 said:
    like endure pain for warrior, roiling mist and 5 staff for guard, MI for guardian and proba others.
    I understand that we have a different balance for pve and wvw/pvp but not between wvw and pvp because wvw = pvp.

    Because sPvP is entirely Conquest so balance will be different due to the fighting being centered on objective capture. Its why anything with big heaps of AoE and can blow up or take advantage of a small area is typically in the meta.

    WvW is a much wider area, allows for more kiting and has a much more likely possibility that other players, many more than just 1 or 2, can just show up while you're fighting.

  • @Turk.5460 said:
    Nice deflection. But this is about SotM. Should this ability be instant, a CC, an evade AND do 75% of a glass player's hp? Should it be able to do all that and 50% hp of a player with adequate toughness and vitality (which it does currently)?

    If you feel there are other abilities from other professions that were rightfully nerfed in PvP and should have those nerfs brought to WvW, feel free to add them to this thread.

    Full glass does big damage against full glass. Full Glass does good damage against balanced specs. I'm not sure what you're expecting outside of "reduce all skills to just doing 10% of a person's health at all times".

    I mean Rocket Charge does almost the same amount of damage with evades on a lower cooldown AND is a double leap finisher but people don't complain about that because nobody plays power scrapper.

    Also maybe because you know they'll use that skill instead of getting up close where you won't have time to react if they use it you could backup and range them from 400+. Stability also works because they'll not get the same amount of damage off because you won't get "pushed" along with the attack. Finally TBH Staff 5 is the only really dangerous skill on the weapon Staff 2 is super easy to dodge and if someone is meleeing you with staff but wack them in the face. Any damage they could do with a support weapon is probably less then what other classes can do with a REAL melee weapon and half decent damage.

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