Druid is overrated (edited title) — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Druid is overrated (edited title)

wefal.8426wefal.8426 Member ✭✭
edited September 10, 2019 in Ranger

Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

Context:
I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.
Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

Druid is basically spirit slave.
1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.
Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.
IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

/rant over

Comments

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

    Context:
    I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.
    Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
    As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

    This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
    c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.
    Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

    4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

    FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
    Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.
    IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

    /rant over

    Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group, one noticable exception being spirit bridge wing 5 for example.
    Edit
    Firebrand is a great second healer for the group that needs that alto tempest and renegade works just aswell.
    I as a druid have never ever got this praise you speak of unless people notice when I spirit revive 4-5 people at sloth or matthias etc.

    whats your build?

  • @Linken.6345 said:

    Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group

    Firebrand can provide all boons except for Alacrity.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @wefal.8426 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group

    Firebrand can provide all boons except for Alacrity.

    That doesnt matter. All firebrand boons are 5 man. Druid provide perma 25 might and very high uptime on protection and fury to 10 players. Basicaly all other boons (exept quickness and alacrity) are not that valuable. Same for heals, if druid is enough to soloheal then firebrand healing is way too much.

    Firebrand has no spotter or spirits. Only thing that FB provide us healing (which isnt required)

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Druids finally getting the love and praise they deserve, heh?
    On a serious note, 10-man spirits, 10-man Might, Avatar heal spam, mobility through staff, immobilizes on certain encounters, etc... there are many reasons why you would want a Druid in your squad. A lot of their strengths are perfect for a squad size of 10. However, they are nowhere near as broken and irreplaceable as they used to be BUT people go with what they know and more importantly what they have. They underestimate Firebrands lacking the experience on the class similarly to your own feelings about Druids - a class you do not know too well yourself.
    It mostly comes down to the fact that people still see and use the FB as nothing more than an off-healer in raids. A rather replaceable position that can be taken by so many builds (including a second Druid). Even more so given the many instances where players choose to forgo the use of the major offensive support feature of the Firebrand: "Signet Sharing" in favour of slightly increased healing. Condition groups in particular profit greatly from that double Signet of Wrath.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    no matter this is good, or not good or totally fail, have boons and heal or not.
    You should NOT think. There is 'meta' and biuld. Want raid - do as mainstream rule and take druid.
    If don't like it - don't go raids.

  • Clyan.1593Clyan.1593 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019
    • Entangle for seekers (VG, in combo with glyph of tides), spirits (Gorse), Wargs (escort), Rigom (Sama)
    • Longbow skills and glyph of tides for both Samarog (Rigom) and SH Golems
    • Spotter for overall increased damage
    • Moment of clarity trait for the Eyes (Statues)
    • Spirits (teleportation is a good thing btw)
    • Staff 3, probably best mobility skill in game, and if you fly into sama slam, sabetha flame pools and so on it really is YOUR fault, because EVERYTHING either is telegraphed or can be anticipated
    • Pushing at KC with Staff
    • Pets for cc, rooting or pulls (on Trio, Qadim elementals)
    • great potential for condi removal (celestial 2, signet of renewal, healing spring)
    • great potential for hard and soft cc (celestial 3 and 5, staff 4, storm spirit, frost spirit, glyph of tides, electric wyvern)
    • For BK at deimos you can go GS and use 4 for an additional panic block when not covered by chrono

    Feel free to add whatever I have forgotten.
    So to me it seems you have misunderstood Druid, it's not just a heal and boon bot, it's a highly supplementary class for raiding mechanics.

  • A druid is an elite spec focused entirely on being a healer. If another spec can off-role and be a better healer than the dedicated healer class then something is clearly wrong.

  • Ashantara.8731Ashantara.8731 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone?

    Huh?! I have neither played nor seen a druid in a long time, because it's so inefficient in solo open world PvE. Your perception may be flawed.

    If this is merely about raids, then perhaps you should brush up on your knowledge. ;) The boons and support provided are significant.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

    In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.
    First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)
    Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.
    Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:
    Druid
    Herald
    Renegade
    Firebrand
    Scourge
    Tempest
    Scraper (dont know anything here)
    Heal boon thief
    Out of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.
    All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

    Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).
    If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

  • Linken.6345Linken.6345 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

    Context:
    I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.
    Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
    As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

    This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
    c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.
    Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

    4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

    FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
    Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.
    IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

    /rant over

    Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group, one noticable exception being spirit bridge wing 5 for example.
    Edit
    Firebrand is a great second healer for the group that needs that alto tempest and renegade works just aswell.
    I as a druid have never ever got this praise you speak of unless people notice when I spirit revive 4-5 people at sloth or matthias etc.

    whats your build?

    My druid is full harrier usualy 3-5 spirits depending on boss

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

    In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.
    First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)
    Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.
    Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:
    Druid
    Herald
    Renegade
    Firebrand
    Scourge
    Tempest
    Scraper (dont know anything here)
    Heal boon thief
    Out of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.
    All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

    Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).
    If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

    Out of interest, why wouldnt you list Tempest as a first healer?

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    To be fair, I think that druid is overrated. It used to be godlike but constant nerfs took it much closer to other options, especialy glyph of empowerment removal.

    In my mind, there are 2 types of healers. First and second.
    First healer is there to provide nececary buffs, that is might, fury and protect, to whole squad with decent healing (that is not the main focus)
    Second healer provides utility, safety and quality of life bonuses.
    Right now there are 6-8 healers. They are:
    Druid
    Herald
    Renegade
    Firebrand
    Scourge
    Tempest
    Scraper (dont know anything here)
    Heal boon thief
    Out of those, first healers are Druid, healthief and Herald. They are not best heal healers by any mean but they have the boons and buffs. Out of those 3 druid is the most wellrounded, thief is best but work only on few fights and herald is best in not perfect runs. One of my guilds is using heal herald instead of druid with high succes.
    All of those build can be second healers but I think that those not listed in first category are better. Reason is that all boons are already covered nd other options provide more safety and utility.

    Each of those builds have some advantage. Major advantage of firebrand is role compresion. You can be quickness bot and healer in hybrid compositions (firebrand, alacrity renegade, chrono, first healer).
    If you dont use this advantage then I feel like other second healers there (exept renegade, same stuff) are better options because they provide more.

    Out of interest, why wouldnt you list Tempest as a first healer?

    I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

    You give Fury by blasting fire fields.
    CC is 600-900. 150 from Warhorn Air 4 and Water 4, another 300 - 600 from Icebow which you can take on the CC heavy fights. Its lower than Druid but its not that bad.
    With Afterhock you give 5 Seconds of Protection to 10 people, without any boon duration. So you can give up to 10 Seconds from one Skill. Considering that you can extend the protection and that your Chrono(s) will also extend and give some Protection is almost always fine. You can Swap the Fire traitline to earth if you know that fury wont be an issue to guarantee protection on 10 players.

    Btw. Might is perma 25. Obviously people need to know how to play this but the same can be said for the other healing classes.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    I was thinking about it and It would be the 4th option. With 1 trait modification (from SC website) you can provide quite high might and uptime on other boons which can be further improved by warhorn. The reason why it is not included is bad fury uptime. With pact runes on chronos It might be enough to just increse the duration but I am not sure. Another reason was that this build has almost 0 cc. I know that I havent wrote it there but you can take cc as form of dps increse. It would be there if I was sure that there is at least very high uptime on fury, and protection on whole squad. I dont play this so I am not sure but If I am wrong, then I would add it. I would love to be wrong, new options are always welcome :D

    You give Fury by blasting fire fields.
    CC is 600-900. 150 from Warhorn Air 4 and Water 4, another 300 - 600 from Icebow which you can take on the CC heavy fights. Its lower than Druid but its not that bad.
    With Afterhock you give 5 Seconds of Protection to 10 people, without any boon duration. So you can give up to 10 Seconds from one Skill. Considering that you can extend the protection and that your Chrono(s) will also extend and give some Protection is almost always fine. You can Swap the Fire traitline to earth if you know that fury wont be an issue to guarantee protection on 10 players.

    Btw. Might is perma 25. Obviously people need to know how to play this but the same can be said for the other healing classes.

    Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.
    But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

    Edit: indeed blasting is only 5

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.
    But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

    Edit: actualy I am not sure about number of targets for blast combos.

    While blasting is only for 5, you copy the boons to your allies, which has a 10 target cap.
    You would lose 2 Stacks of Might from Flash Freeze. Not that important.

    I can post the build in about 7h. I cant access gw2skills atm.
    The Traits however are:
    Water
    2-2-2 if you need Condition Removal, otherwise
    2-3-2
    Tempest
    3-1-3 or
    3-2-3 if you dont want or dont need auras on 10 players.

    Now you can choose between Fire (Fury) and Earth (10man Protection and 5 Man Stab)
    Fire
    1-2-1 for extra Condi Cleanse, otherwise
    1-3-1

    Earth
    3-2-doesnt matter

    I usually dont run earth, since the protection uptime on my group will always be 100% and the protection on the other group will be good enough and can also be 100% depending on the Chronos.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @wefal.8426 said:

    @Linken.6345 said:

    Becouse most of the time healers arent taken for their heals but what buffs the bring to the group

    Firebrand can provide all boons except for Alacrity.

    Not to 10 people.

    You fail at basic group setup. Chrono is still the primary tank/class chosen when creating a raid group. Druid synergizes ideally with chrono. Mystery solved as to why druid is chosen as primary support for 10 people content.

    As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

  • @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    Blasting fire fields for fury is only If you have fire traitline and only for 5 players. Icebow is huge breakbar boost but you loose some might uptime right? It woundnt likely matter.
    But you obviously have more knowlage there then me. Can you post a build you would use so we are debating over the aame thing? Thank you

    Edit: actualy I am not sure about number of targets for blast combos.

    While blasting is only for 5, you copy the boons to your allies, which has a 10 target cap.
    You would lose 2 Stacks of Might from Flash Freeze. Not that important.

    I can post the build in about 7h. I cant access gw2skills atm.
    The Traits however are:
    Water
    2-2-2 if you need Condition Removal, otherwise
    2-3-2
    Tempest
    3-1-3 or
    3-2-3 if you dont want or dont need auras on 10 players.

    Now you can choose between Fire (Fury) and Earth (10man Protection and 5 Man Stab)
    Fire
    1-2-1 for extra Condi Cleanse, otherwise
    1-3-1

    Earth
    3-2-doesnt matter

    I usually dont run earth, since the protection uptime on my group will always be 100% and the protection on the other group will be good enough and can also be 100% depending on the Chronos.

    And what statset? Harrier or magi?

  • RaidsAreEasyAF.8652RaidsAreEasyAF.8652 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:
    And what statset? Harrier or magi?

    I use a Magi Harrier Mix.
    Shoulder Chest Gloves and Leggings are Harrier, As well as the weapons and trinkets except for the accessorys.
    Transference and Conc on the Weapons, Healing Infusions and Monk Rune.

    You can however go full minstrel and tank as well. Tanking is pretty easy and it allows your Chroonos to play really offensive.

  • Pirindolo.9427Pirindolo.9427 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

    True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

  • ButcherofMalakir.4067ButcherofMalakir.4067 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    Ok, then tempest will be added to my list of first healers too. With pack runes on other subsquad, fury should be ok. Thanks for your insight @RaidsAreEasyAF.8652
    It still looks like the hardest of those 4 to get uptimes but looks possible

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

    True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

    Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

    Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.

  • @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

    True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

    Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

    That's whay I said. CM comps have (and require) a ton more dps than regular pugs, so firebrigade is the choice. In no little cases they play 5 dps.

    Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.

    Again, that hapens in a CM group, where they barely need heals. In a regular (headless) pug druid is way way more useful.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 10, 2019

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:

    @Pirindolo.9427 said:

    @Cyninja.2954 said:
    As far as fractals, Firebrigade has already replaced druid+chrono as go-to composition.

    True for Fraltal CM comps, which have a ton more dps. Regular T4 pug runs are still better with a druid in them.

    Firebrigade has more dps than chrono+druid.

    That's whay I said. CM comps have (and require) a ton more dps than regular pugs, so firebrigade is the choice. In no little cases they play 5 dps.

    Even a solo heal firebrand without renegade outperforms a solo druid as far as carrying a team.

    Again, that hapens in a CM group, where they barely need heals. In a regular (headless) pug druid is way way more useful.

    I think you missunderstand the relationship between Fireband and Druid. A heal Firebrand provides nearly double the healing a druid does (druids are the weakest healers among all healers in pure heal output) while also providing a ton of more useful boons like aegis, stability and quickness (on top of fury and might).

    There is no scenario in which a druid outperforms a Firebrand except for cc and as might and fury generation for 10 players as pendant to chrono.

  • @wefal.8426 said:
    Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

    Context:
    I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.
    Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
    As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

    This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
    c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.
    Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

    4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

    FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
    Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.
    IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

    /rant over

    Indeed druid is overrated now that there are many comps but it is not overrated by how you feel the way druid is used.
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it.

    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.

    As far as usefulness with druid its easier because of the utilities it brings. Firebrand on the other hand doesn't have as much uses like druid does for raids.

    This does not stop firebrand from its greatness. Since comp has changed, firebrand is a fantastic tank. You can now tank at your regular toughness and pull higher numbers in dps then off chrono. Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank. However if you going for just clearing fractals,raids. Any comp atm is sufficient to clear the boss with out enrage.

    The main reason druid will be number 1 is because spirits + spotter. IF somehow Arenanet deleted spirits then other supports will be number 1. Tempest would be a possible number 2 because tempest have 10 man 25 might upkeep, it just has no spotter or spirits. But tempest would struggle just like firebrand as main heal. Tempest will have some issues with pushing, crippling because tempests duration of those conditions suck.

    All in all Druid isn't great because of "heals," but because of the offensive buffs + utility skills is has to provide for the group. Where as the utilities in other classes don't do as great.

  • As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

    1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well
    2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.
    3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

    Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

    @blambidy.3216 said:
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...
    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.
    ...Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

    Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

    Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

    Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

    Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

  • @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

    1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well
    2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.
    3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

    Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

    @blambidy.3216 said:
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...
    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.
    ...Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

    Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

    Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

    Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

    Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

    I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

  • aymnad.9023aymnad.9023 Member ✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
    As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

    At least we agree that Druid needs some buffs! You play FB, the current N°1 wanted specs in group content (sPvP,WvW, high tier fractals) and you complain that druid is considered in less than 1% of the game ? Lol.

    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.

    That is why they are better than before where you had to sacrifice them (even if a lot of people cry on the forum without understanding how good this change was). If they are close to the party (as they should be) they will get heal. You probably have a hard time with them because you are not used to them. You do not need to move them that often and when you do, you are off cd.

    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.

    So ? As pointed out mantras do the same. On many bosses you have a tank and all allies behind. You can heal everybody with blasts (warhorn + staff) in regular form if you use heal trap or spirits to have aoe heals (not to mention CA aoe heals). The auto heal is reliable, not a burst heal for sure, but heals multiple allies, has a good range and hit multiple times (used for mechanics like KC).

    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.

    Not the best heal. Definitly needs some buff or something else to reward allies to stay in close combat. But if you try to play without it you will miss it.

    3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
    c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.

    Hum. I do not see how those example make it bad.
    a) Sabetha does not requiere a ton of healing. You can throw a few heals from range in CA (druid has way more range options than FB) and you sustain yourself if needed, you can rush in once she goes away or go to bombs with staff.
    b) Care about the timing, look at the animation.
    c) Same as b

    Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

    This is way better than standing still on guardian staff (does not have the might buff though). Staff 3 mobility + blast is what makes this skill so good.

    4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

    We all agree that it needs some buffs on 1 and 2. But 2 + 3 is decent for condi clear (also if you use glyph). Use 5 when you need some quick stab, if you use it while standing in a bomb sure it is bad :lol:. If you are out of endurance and want a quick stab to take a hit and keep healing, use it. If you want to add slows to the adds or the boss, use it.

    FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
    Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

    You play offheal right? So you still need a main healer. Back in the shadows? Some bosses are way better for FB (like earth djinn), it just depends what you need or want.

    Druid has a lot of utilities to offer to the group, take a look at Clyan answer.

    Edit : I think when it comes to supporting groups who are struggling with a game mechanic FB is better. With aegis you can take a hit without thinking (like Vale guardian blue aoe), with stab you can take a knockback without thinking (like Cairn), you have the bubble (for Adina). In my opinion Druid is a more reliable healer but does not provide this "quality of life" (allowing to make mistakes) which is why it has fallen off meta in some scenarios (not to mention that some druid spells have a delay :anguished: ). However it does provide 10 man boons, unique effects, strong healing, and lots of possibilities with the pets (cc, boons, damage) that make him so strong in this niche that are raids.

  • @wefal.8426 said:
    Mods: please dont move this to Druid sub forum. I will only get crucified there by Druid fanboys/girls. And get less diverse responds.

    Context:
    I came back after 5 years break and decided to start a new toon. Guardian support FB spec.
    Then I joined a guild and got into raids.

    Why Druid is so beloved and worship by everyone? Why everyone give Druid all the credit for healing and keeeping squad alive? I honestly dont understand that.
    As a FB healer/support I offer the group far more than druid can.

    This question why Druid is so revered while FB pushed back hit me even harder when I created a Druid.

    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    3) Staff 3? The only somewhat reliable healing druid has with staff. Unfortunately, this comes with a cost of displacement that can be lethal. For example: a) Sabetha, you need to kite to get flame pools. b) Samarog, I used staff 3 then Sama decide to use his knockback attack...sent me flying right onto spears...to die.
    c) Vale Guardian, staff 3 right into portal.
    Now you gonna say I need to be experience with Druid to avoid those staff and you probably right, but this doesnt change the fact that even Staff 3 is not the most reliable.

    4) Avatar state: again, not reliable healing if you dont have it up. Even if you do, you'll have to be near your group. Skill 1 and 2 while spammable have short radius. Skill 3 and 4 are good but 5 root you in place, very dangerous.

    FB can offer far more than just unreliable pets and healing.
    Yet, people choose to praise Druid like he's the kitten messiah. In every raid I've been in the past 3-4 months, everyone were cheering for the druid at the end of raid while the poor offheal stand in the back in shadows.

    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.
    IMO Druid is overrated while many other specs are underappreciated.

    /rant over

    I fully agree with your statement. Heal necro, heal tempest and FB are better support.

    The thing is Druid brings a couple of extra buff no other class have:

    • Frost and Sun spirit brings an extra DPS for the team which can't be replaced.
    • Easy perma 25 might for the team.
    • Until recently the gliph of empowerment gave another 8% extra DPS. Not anymore but teams will need some months to realize that.
    • Spirit soulbeast is not support and is not as good DPS as other classes, as it doesn't share much. Thanks the weird soulbeast traitline.

    That's why druid is still wanted in Pugs. It's not because it's the best at anything, it's simply because the only viable option to get those buffs.

    If soulbeast get some revamp so it's better at sharing maybe it could replace the druids in a DPS slot. Or Anet destroys the spirits and then the ranger can be deleted from the game.

  • @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

    1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well
    2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.
    3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

    Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

    @blambidy.3216 said:
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...
    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.
    ...Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

    Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

    Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

    Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

    Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

    I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

    Oh absolutely. That's why I wrote the last two sentences in my post. When you need chrono, druid is there to fill in the gaps that chrono lacks. It's not that druid is great.

  • @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:

    @ButcherofMalakir.4067 said:

    @DuckDuckBOOM.4097 said:
    As someone that has played both healers in raids and fotm, I'll toss in my 2 cents.

    @wefal.8426 said:
    Druid is basically spirit slave.
    1) Unreliable spirits that can die and need to constantly move around the map.
    2) Unreliable healing. Staff 1? Make sure you're behind your teammates.
    Staff 2? Slow heal. IF it passes through allies.
    With all honesty I dont understand why Druid is so revered compared to other just as good if not better heal/support specs.

    1) The spirit change made spirits extra reliable (actual up time in the DPS meters were higher) if you position them well
    2) If you want to complain about staff 1... those FB mantras are even worst for supplying your important boons. While they have a small radius around you, the cone is what you hit most ppl with. When you have allies that orbit, your boon up time on them suffers a lot.
    3) The one thing about playing Druid that I actually miss is staff 1 and 2 for the consistent heals (1&2) and the 10 target heals (just 2). Aside from that, I agree that FB healing is much better than druid.

    Overall our group has been much happier and have had higher group DPS with 2x FB+ 1 ren. I haven't personally seen anyone praise druid in a while. So I'm not sure what the OP is talking about here. In fact, I've never been cheered at or seen other ppl cheer a druid in raids ever.

    @blambidy.3216 said:
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...
    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.
    ...Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

    Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

    Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

    Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

    @InsaneQR.7412 said:
    Druid is just plain out bad right now. It's not even overrated it's just outdated and needs a decent rework.

    Agreed. I think what bothers me is that when you look at group comps in general, it's either Chrono/Druid or FB/Ren or 1 of each. However, it's never that you want the Druid. It's just that if you bring chrono, druid just vestigially fits in their.

    I agree that in your comp, druid is bad. That beeing said some encounters are better with minimum 1 chrono and that means druid is required.

    Oh absolutely. That's why I wrote the last two sentences in my post. When you need chrono, druid is there to fill in the gaps that chrono lacks. It's not that druid is great.

    Its the problem of ranger. Unique modifiers are way too good and ranger+druid used to have alot of them. But since the removal of glyph of empowerment, there is only sun/frost spirit left (and spotter) and thankfuly soulbeast cantake them too.
    Druid isnt great but it is many avarage things compresed together so it can fill holes in compositions well.

  • Druid dose not need bufff . It’s need complete reward ,skills,traits and it’s about dam time to remove the astral mechanisms and made something that actually worth it -aka something like scourge will be welcome

  • Psycoprophet.8107Psycoprophet.8107 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 11, 2019

    Overrated? The specs been gutted. Dont think many are celebrating it these days.

  • @blambidy.3216 said:
    You say that firebrand can do every boon? Technically it can barely pull 25 stacks of might to 5 people, also the quickness for firebrand is only 5 man. Also firebrand doesn't have any offensive buffs. The thing is firebrand won't be alone in support like a druid can. Druid does 25 might + spirits + spotter. Then you can have 1 power/condi quickbrand. 1 divine ren, 1 chrono, bs, dps. As far as main heal, it will be impossible for firebrand to be solo heal unless might can be 10 man, or you have an unusual comp but the comp people won't use or people will not be prepared for it...
    There are other things to note that druid does that you did not note. Pushing in sh, pushing in sam, green 2 kite on dhuum, pushing red seekers. Entangling red seekers, spirit res. which is far easier to do with druid than firebrand, that's if firebrand can do some of these things. Firebrand can push on sam and push couple seekers here and there. But pushing on sh? green kite 2 on dhuum? You will have a hard time with those on firebrand.
    ...Which is great. Firebrand carries people in fractals because of the blocks and aegis it provides. But as far as "speedruns" Druid makes the raids, fractals faster "if" people do not facetank.

    Just because might is applied to 10 players with gotl, doesn't mean druid solo heals/supports 10 ppl. The comp you list requires 4 support spots. Calling Druid solo heal/alone support isn't fair when you have 4 support (I'm not counting BS). 2x FB (tank/off-heal) + 1 ren requires 3 support. It's the comp my groups been using for a while. Even without spirits, our group DPS went up because that extra DPS slot > spirits. Double DPS spirit is also over rated. Comps tend to go full power or full condi. 5% power buff to 7 condi dps is nothing compared to a full extra DPS. Sun spirit is only worth 2k DPS total (not per person but total group) to 10 power DPS if it's 100% up time. Sun spirit is worth it for druid since it has nothing else to bring. 2k DPS doesn't make it worth it to bring a Druid especially since a power or condi SB can easily slot in 1 spirit.

    Despite having 2 druid mains, we quickly adapted to 2 x FB for VG. It's better than Druid. We use shield 5 to push orbs or staff 5 to prevent orbs from hitting the group. No entangle or nature spirit required. Healing is good enough that we usually don't get downed by green. Ppl go down maybe 1-3 times max in an entire fight and that isn't always due to greens but ppl missing blues. Samarag, use axe 3, shield 5 and F1 (3). SH, add a 4th support which is druid. We haven't done dhuum in a while due to time constraints but same as SH, just add a 4th support. So there are only two fights were druid is "better" than FB from my personal experience but it's used as a 4th slot not a replacement for FB.

    Also, I don't get how you can claim that "speedruns" are better with Druid and ppl not face tanking. Actual speed runs have your DPS go full DPS and not dodge because of aegis/stab (or the old mesmer distortion share). Dodging, especially to cancel a big DPS skill is a DPS loss. Aegis is the biggest utility FB brings.

    Banner slave is support but it shouldn’t be support. The fact that a bs can hit over 25k while putting banner to the group is fine. However if you tech want to go to how the comp was 2 chrono, Druid. Dps. Is still a great comp. which is more then enough dps to speed clear.

    The thing is you said Druid isn’t 10 man heals. But water spirit is 10 man. So idk what your talking about.

    Look I agree with a lot of your statement. However all I’m saying is the reason Druid is number 1 is because of the utility and skills + might are more easier to do then say a firebrand + ren comp within “raids”. As for fractals. Fibrigade comp is superior. But going through speedclears your going to be using a comp with 1 Druid.

  • @blambidy.3216 said:
    However if you tech want to go to how the comp was 2 chrono, Druid. Dps. Is still a great comp. which is more then enough dps to speed clear.

    The thing is you said Druid isn’t 10 man heals. But water spirit is 10 man. So idk what your talking about.

    Look I agree with a lot of your statement. However all I’m saying is the reason Druid is number 1 is because of the utility and skills + might are more easier to do then say a firebrand + ren comp within “raids”. As for fractals. Fibrigade comp is superior. But going through speedclears your going to be using a comp with 1 Druid.

    The comp being good is different than the Druid being good. That's the point I'm trying to make. Druid isn't number 1. It's Chrono that is number 1 (at least in some fights)! Druid is just tacked on there because of spirits.

    Staff 2, as I mentioned also heals 10 targets and is far more valuable at ~700 x 10 target heal every 2 seconds. Water spirit itself is bad. 863 healing every 10 seconds is nothing (not affected by Druid healing power/outgoing healing). Water spirit is just for the 50% up time on 10 target regen to the other 5 ppl not in your subgroup since you already have perma regen from WH on the 5 in your subgroup. If you have 2 healers, water spirit is useless as the other healer with bring their own regen. I'm not saying it's impossible for Druid to heal 10 ppl but the majority of the healing is only towards 3-5 at a time and most groups I've healed need a second healer.

    I disagree on it being easier. I've played both. It's a lot easier keeping ppl alive with FB than Druid. The general boons/might is also easier on FB as long as your teammates group up near you.

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