Am I the only one who is afraid the dragon storyline will just end with Aurene replacing 6 other? - Page 2 — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Am I the only one who is afraid the dragon storyline will just end with Aurene replacing 6 other?

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  • Poormany.4507Poormany.4507 Member ✭✭✭

    By the time Kralk himself was slain at Dragonfall, there's yet another suggestion in Tom's reply that Aurene may not have been able to absorb all of his magic despite taking it in at ground zero. Perhaps this was because Aurene was still relatively juvenile in size and experience and snacking on Kralk's magic would be a bigger undertaking than taking on Joko.

    Jormag getting Kralk magic is also suggested by the Icebrood Saga mini from the promo (the icebrood with purple Kralk-like energy instead of the Vine-touched energy we saw in LWS3)

    Maybe we're seeing Mordremoth's mind energy being used already, based on the Suspicious Travelers and Bangar, to telepathically send thoughts/speech longer distances, even outside the Shiverpeaks, much like Mordremoth did with Scarlet?

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Perihen the Thawk.9527 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:
    You see, Konig, this is why I don't like airing my opinions on this forum. You're a pessimist. I'll stick to my side of the sandpit. You stick to yours.

    Nothing I said was pessimistic but okay, you go and be overly sensitive to people disagreeing with you or clarifying something you missed.

    It's a fact that Kralkatorrik isn't an Elder Dragon of Time, because we were given his canonical domains recently, and they are Crystal and Fury. Like or dislike the revelation, that revelation is canon. I know I dislike some canon (and voice such dislike when I feel it doesn't make logical sense), but don't complain that others tell you that your theories breaks established canon lore.

    If you're more interested in breaking canon with stories, then you're more than welcome to write your fan-fiction, but either denote it as such, or use the fan fiction forum.

    Really the only established "Canon lore" is that Taimi thinks these are helpful classifications of the dragons' magic. The Asura may be smart, but they're just trying to figure this out like the rest of us.

    At this point I prefer to think of Taimi's classifications as something like a very early periodic table. Maybe onto something, but possibly too clever by half and full of red herrings.

    The whole domains thing is not coming from the asura, let alone Taimi specifically. Taimi may have been used to expose us to it (in the most recent and expanded form), but this comes from the actual magic the Elder Dragons themselves use, as observed by: the Durmand Priory, Vigil, Order of Whispers, asura, dwarves, norn, charr, jotun, Forgotten, Six Gods, and more. This is 3,000+ years of recorded knowledge for their domains.

    If anything is comparable to the "early periodic table" for these, it'd probably be the Tome of Rubicon - an ancient dwarven text that was the Priory's original knowledge base for the Elder Dragons, before the Pact's formation made observing dragon minions an easier task, and before they uncovered the Tome of the Five True Gods that was even more detailed and less rewritten over centuries. In other words, it'd be the "what we know" from the personal story, the lines that call them mindless forces of nature, etc. And while I wouldn't say what's known by Tyrians (including Taimi) now is completely accurate, the domains of the Elder Dragons seems to be one of the most easily observed aspects (the first domain certainly is, at least, since that's what their corruption takes physical form as - fire, ice, plant, undeath, and crystal).

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Daniel Handler.4816 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Arden.7480 said:

    @Stephen.6312 said:

    @thepenmonster.3621 said:

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    Aurene's resurrection shook my confidence in the studio.

    Did you think the giant neon sign saying "SHE HAS JOKO'S MAGIC" they had been holding up for six months was too obvious?

    Why did Aurene have to die? Do dragons hate mortality? What's the deal there? I feel like Joko is a big piece of the puzzle.

    She has immortality magic :) Can we not use term "joko's magic" anymore - it sounds pathetic XD

    Technically it's "lich magic". Or to be more precise, "soul binding magic".

    How she has it still makes no sense given that Elder Dragons are not capable of using any form of magic they consume, only the magic of beings on cosmic scales, and Joko was no cosmic being like gods and Elder Dragons.

    Doesn't that imply there is more to Joko than we realised? The dude was around before Nightfall. It's possible he has divine magic.
    I mean he can even be channeled as one would Balthazar.

    The problem with Joko and by extention Liches as i've brough up before is that Anet does not have clear lore surrounding them.. there is actually extremely little to go on.
    Joko is actually the worst offender of this since his origins state that he was once mortal and then at some point in time stuff happened and then he was an immortal Lich..
    There's some reference to a Djinn in there but there is so little information in Guildwars to define Liches that we have no idea how they come to be.. all we do know is that they are typically powerful Necromancers who somehow achieve immortality via Lichdom through the craft.

    Lich magic.. the possible role of Phylacteries.. none of this is clearly defined in Gw2 and with Aurine gaining resurrection powers by eating a Lich this is a mess that the writers really need to clear up at some point otherwise that whole plot point is really just an extremely poor cop-out of writing and the game deserves better than that.

    Aurine right now appears to be the Superman of Tyria.. she's all powerful.. unstoppable and can't be killed.. and that doesn't make her interesting anymore.. it makes her a "Screw you I win" card.. and that's dull.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Poormany.4507 said:

    By the time Kralk himself was slain at Dragonfall, there's yet another suggestion in Tom's reply that Aurene may not have been able to absorb all of his magic despite taking it in at ground zero. Perhaps this was because Aurene was still relatively juvenile in size and experience and snacking on Kralk's magic would be a bigger undertaking than taking on Joko.

    Jormag getting Kralk magic is also suggested by the Icebrood Saga mini from the promo (the icebrood with purple Kralk-like energy instead of the Vine-touched energy we saw in LWS3)

    Maybe we're seeing Mordremoth's mind energy being used already, based on the Suspicious Travelers and Bangar, to telepathically send thoughts/speech longer distances, even outside the Shiverpeaks, much like Mordremoth did with Scarlet?

    Nah Jormag has always been severely deceptive and suggestive..
    Jormag doesn't seem to corrupt it's minions with brute force like the other Dragons.. Jormag seduces it's minions and they follow it willingly, hence the Sons of Svanir.
    Then it corrupts them, often with their consent.

    Mordremoths power over mind only really applied to it's minions.. it was able to communicate with other races but it wasn't able to dominate them the same way as it did with Sylvari.

    I'm not sure if any of Kralk's magic will get into the other dragons.. unlike Zhaitan and Mordremoth there was as Rytlock put it "no boom" his magic didn't seem to explode from him like theirs did so it's assumed that after defeating his heart Aurine pretty much took all of it.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Lich magic.. the possible role of Phylacteries.. none of this is clearly defined in Gw2 and with Aurine gaining resurrection powers by eating a Lich this is a mess that the writers really need to clear up at some point otherwise that whole plot point is really just an extremely poor cop-out of writing and the game deserves better than that.

    To note: while phylacteries do exist in Tyria, they appear unrelated to lichdom in the D&D sense, and instead appear to adhere more closely to the original meaning of the word, which while butchery context, is effective a container for holy relics/writings. Though in the case of Tyria, phylacteries appear to be rings and amulets, and do seem associated with the dead/undead in general.

    Liches in GW do not have their souls bound to some random object of their choice, but instead the soul is bound to their body in a way that prevents it from "disconnecting" as it would in normal death.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm not sure if any of Kralk's magic will get into the other dragons.. unlike Zhaitan and Mordremoth there was as Rytlock put it "no boom" his magic didn't seem to explode from him like theirs did so it's assumed that after defeating his heart Aurine pretty much took all of it.

    In the August Narrative Q&A, a dev suggested pretty heavily that the other Elder Dragons did get some of Kralkatorrik's magic, despite the "no boom".

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  • Rest of GW2:

    Aurene becomes the deus ex machina overpowered prismatic benevolent elder dragon who contains all of the magic.

    GW3:

    They pull some Tal-Rasha kind of tragedy where Aurene is found to have become some terribly tortured soul slowly going batshit crazy from all the magic, becoming a much bigger danger than any other elder dragon has ever been.

  • So, tangential question here, but... we have been told that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are each other's energy. If we kill Jormag, and some of his energy goes flying off to Primordus, would that make Primordus stronger or weaker? I mean, he would take in Jormag's energy, and possibly some of his powers, but those powers are his own weakness, so would having them weaken him even though he now has more power?

  • Hannelore.8153Hannelore.8153 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 10, 2019

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    So, tangential question here, but... we have been told that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are each other's energy. If we kill Jormag, and some of his energy goes flying off to Primordus, would that make Primordus stronger or weaker? I mean, he would take in Jormag's energy, and possibly some of his powers, but those powers are his own weakness, so would having them weaken him even though he now has more power?

    They are not each other's weakness, just vulnerable to a similar kind of magic.

    For example Jormag is also vulnerable to the enchanted fire bow which presumably is somewhere close to Primordus in regards to fire magic, and it can also be presumed that Primordus is weak to very strong types of ice magic even if it doesn't come from another dragon. Its possible that absorbing the other's power would cause them torment but also render then immune to that weakness.

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  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    So, tangential question here, but... we have been told that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are each other's energy. If we kill Jormag, and some of his energy goes flying off to Primordus, would that make Primordus stronger or weaker? I mean, he would take in Jormag's energy, and possibly some of his powers, but those powers are his own weakness, so would having them weaken him even though he now has more power?

    This is really hard to say, for two reasons beyond the "we haven't been told" scope:

    1. As shown during S3E3, Jormag isn't weak specifically to Primordus' energy, but all powerful fire magic. Braham's bow (and Aesgir's own weapons) empowered by the ancient jotun scroll have unclear origins, but the kodan use the Spirit of Fire to fight against Jormag's forces with efficiency, indicating that any sufficialy powerful flame will be Jormag's weakness as much as Primordus' energy is (even Sohothin or Magdaer). This means the inverse is likely the case as well - that Primordus isn't weak specifically to Jormag's energy, but to "powerful ice magic". This is actually hinted with the stone dwarves - they're more than stone, they're cold stone, and in GW1 they had a subtle frosty aura about them. When Jormag attacks in Bitterfrost Frontier, Jormag's minions don't try to consume that fire magic, but snuff it out - so it's possible that consuming one's weakness does indeed weaken them (that, or Jormag doesn't want to take a chance), thus if we follow this train of thought, were Primordus to eat Jormag's magic, it'd be harmful.
    2. Inversely, however, based on the Unstable Abomination in S3E3, and some ambient dialogue in S3E6, Zhaitan and Mordremoth were also opposites. This calls into question the entire "Primordus and Jormag are each others' unique weaknesses" and introduces the possibility that the Elder Dragons were formed in pairs of opposites (meaning Kralkatorrik/Aurene's opposite will be the DSD and vice versa. Thing is here, Mordremoth ate Zhaitan's magic and became stronger, so if this is the case, then Primordus eating Jormag's magic will make him stronger, not weaker, but Primordus would have some other - still unknown - weakness that we'd exploit (Jormag too).

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Lich magic.. the possible role of Phylacteries.. none of this is clearly defined in Gw2 and with Aurine gaining resurrection powers by eating a Lich this is a mess that the writers really need to clear up at some point otherwise that whole plot point is really just an extremely poor cop-out of writing and the game deserves better than that.

    To note: while phylacteries do exist in Tyria, they appear unrelated to lichdom in the D&D sense, and instead appear to adhere more closely to the original meaning of the word, which while butchery context, is effective a container for holy relics/writings. Though in the case of Tyria, phylacteries appear to be rings and amulets, and do seem associated with the dead/undead in general.

    Liches in GW do not have their souls bound to some random object of their choice, but instead the soul is bound to their body in a way that prevents it from "disconnecting" as it would in normal death.

    Yeah we've had that discussion bud :)
    It's still unclear though specially because of items like Khilbrons Phylactery existing in the game and of course the void of information regarding how one becomes a Lich in this universe.

    Another convoluted discussion has been going off platform about how Signets are defined in Guildwars which is another subject that was too unclear to avoid an argument lol
    Some people said rings, some said tablets and some accepted both..
    I wasn't directly involved in the discussion myself but I talked about it at length with my partner who was involved when she wanted my opinion on the matter.
    I suggested the signet is neither ring or tablet but rather the magical symbol which could be scribed onto a ring or tablet or in theory anything really much like a rune.
    We reached out to Anet as well because this just wasn't clear in the lore and got a response that more or less said the same thing I suggested about the symbols/spells.
    I might be able to quote the response word for word later if my partner still has access to it.

    I don't know if I can talk about why that signet discussion happened though.. so to play it safe I'll keep my trap shut on that for now lol

    I do really hope Anet flesh's out the lore around Lich's in Gw2 at some point though, it's one of the most neglected lore areas of this world and since we got a major character directly involved with this kind of power now it's important that we get some answers on how.

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    I'm not sure if any of Kralk's magic will get into the other dragons.. unlike Zhaitan and Mordremoth there was as Rytlock put it "no boom" his magic didn't seem to explode from him like theirs did so it's assumed that after defeating his heart Aurine pretty much took all of it.

    In the August Narrative Q&A, a dev suggested pretty heavily that the other Elder Dragons did get some of Kralkatorrik's magic, despite the "no boom".

    Fair enough then :)
    That'll make things a bit more interesting at least ^^

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Sajuuk Khar.1509 said:
    So, tangential question here, but... we have been told that Jormag and Primordus's weaknesses are each other's energy. If we kill Jormag, and some of his energy goes flying off to Primordus, would that make Primordus stronger or weaker? I mean, he would take in Jormag's energy, and possibly some of his powers, but those powers are his own weakness, so would having them weaken him even though he now has more power?

    This is really hard to say, for two reasons beyond the "we haven't been told" scope:

    1. Inversely, however, based on the Unstable Abomination in S3E3, and some ambient dialogue in S3E6, Zhaitan and Mordremoth were also opposites. This calls into question the entire "Primordus and Jormag are each others' unique weaknesses" and introduces the possibility that the Elder Dragons were formed in pairs of opposites (meaning Kralkatorrik/Aurene's opposite will be the DSD and vice versa. Thing is here, Mordremoth ate Zhaitan's magic and became stronger, so if this is the case, then Primordus eating Jormag's magic will make him stronger, not weaker, but Primordus would have some other - still unknown - weakness that we'd exploit (Jormag too).

    I think it's more that way..

    Primordus might now be weak to Jormag's ice magic but if he absorbed the spectrum from Jormag's death then he may potentially become both a Fire and Ice dragon a living contradiction eliminiting his weakness to Ice and not gaining a weakness to fire.

    If this one dragon to rule them all theory that people have about Aurine is where this story is going eventually then I guess it's absolutely without doubt clear that the last dragon we destroy (probably Primordus) will be in every way her equal but opposite.
    2 Dragons, one good one evil but both having access to every spectrum.. the only difference being Primordus natural affinity for fire and Aurine inheriting that power from the God of Fire and War.

    Might also account the lich magic in there too but maybe not.. dragons consume magic after all so if Aurine in theory could kill Joko dead dead by consuming him then another Elder Dragon could in theory do the same to Aurine..
    I hope that's the case since her immortality thing makes her a cheap I win tactic at the moment so if the other dragons are not even a threat to her then it cheapens them and everything they represent.
    However if they are the only thing's in the game right now that can make her dead dead then they remain the biggest threats in this world.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Yeah we've had that discussion bud :)
    It's still unclear though specially because of items like Khilbrons Phylactery existing in the game and of course the void of information regarding how one becomes a Lich in this universe.

    I fail to see how it's unclear about phylacteries. Sure, they added their existence in GW2, but the fact that Khilbron and Joko both died without destroying one, and a bunch of non-liches have one, is pretty indicative that they're unrelated to lichdom.

    Just because we don't have a statement saying "this is how it's different from your archetypal setting" doesn't make something unclear.

    Another convoluted discussion has been going off platform about how Signets are defined in Guildwars which is another subject that was too unclear to avoid an argument lol
    Some people said rings, some said tablets and some accepted both..
    I wasn't directly involved in the discussion myself but I talked about it at length with my partner who was involved when she wanted my opinion on the matter.
    I suggested the signet is neither ring or tablet but rather the magical symbol which could be scribed onto a ring or tablet or in theory anything really much like a rune.
    We reached out to Anet as well because this just wasn't clear in the lore and got a response that more or less said the same thing I suggested about the symbols/spells.
    I might be able to quote the response word for word later if my partner still has access to it.

    I don't know if I can talk about why that signet discussion happened though.. so to play it safe I'll keep my trap shut on that for now lol

    Not very convoluted either, tbh. There's multiple direct statements to signets being called rings from both games. From GW1:

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panic/Skill_history
    Elite Hex Spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are Hexed with Panic for 10...22...25 seconds. While Hexed, they suffer Energy degeneration of 2 and take 10...68...82 damage whenever they use a Signet ring.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignorance/Skill_history
    Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target foe cannot use Signet rings.
    It's also alluded to in the boss "Gao Han of the Rings" who has mostly signet skills equipped.
    And then lastly, the quest "Malaquire's Test" mentions a ring when talking about using the Signet of Capture:
    "Of course, there was a small chance that you might combust when the ring absorbed the...but this is a technical detail that I wouldn't want to bore you with."

    From GW2, there's the King's Sight skill from Be My Guest, which is similarly called a signet ring. Though what's curious there is that Braham says that signet rings are ancient magic unused anymore, while signets are still fairly active skills.

    Point being, at some point in time (including GW1's timeframe), without a doubt, signets were on rings. Whether they were only on rings is seemingly left unclear, but I've never seen mention of "signet tablets" so I'd love to see a link to such. Wouldn't mind seeing that response either, since that would be worth documenting on the wiki.

    I do really hope Anet flesh's out the lore around Lich's in Gw2 at some point though, it's one of the most neglected lore areas of this world and since we got a major character directly involved with this kind of power now it's important that we get some answers on how.

    While it would be nice, I don't think it's necessary or important to know the "how" of things working, so much as the fact they do. Sometimes over-explaining things can be a hindrance rather than a boon to world building (see: midichlorians).

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  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    Yeah we've had that discussion bud :)
    It's still unclear though specially because of items like Khilbrons Phylactery existing in the game and of course the void of information regarding how one becomes a Lich in this universe.

    I fail to see how it's unclear about phylacteries. Sure, they added their existence in GW2, but the fact that Khilbron and Joko both died without destroying one, and a bunch of non-liches have one, is pretty indicative that they're unrelated to lichdom.

    Just because we don't have a statement saying "this is how it's different from your archetypal setting" doesn't make something unclear.

    Because as I mentioned in the past discussion certen concepts in in Gw2 have multiple different uses behind them.. having non lich phylacteries in the game does not invalidate the other phylactery concept that is related to lichs and that is also noted in the game as well.

    Both Khilbron and Joko did die without the destruction of a phylactery but both of them also died under very specific circumstances in the presence of extremely powerful objects that absorb magic.
    Joko was eaten by Aurine after being beaten/killed in battle (his magic and soul consumed by a Dragon) and Khilbron was finally killed for good on top of a bloodstone after being slain multiple times. (again his soul and magic being consumed by a bloodstone)

    If Lich's don't have phylacteries in this universe then there wouldn't be a ring named as such in the game, it would just be a ring.
    The use of the world phylactery rather than ring and the fact that it's owner was a lich strongly implies that the ring held said lich's soul but the lack of confirmation on that is why this lore is unclear and why these discussions even took place in the first place.
    It's also to this day unclear how Khilbron and Joko even became Lich's in the first place but it's suggested that Abaddon was responsible for Khilbron though whether he became one through Abaddons magic or became one by choice using knowledge Abaddon bestowed on him (which makes more sense due to the ring existing) is left open for speculation and theories.

    Another convoluted discussion has been going off platform about how Signets are defined in Guildwars which is another subject that was too unclear to avoid an argument lol
    Some people said rings, some said tablets and some accepted both..
    I wasn't directly involved in the discussion myself but I talked about it at length with my partner who was involved when she wanted my opinion on the matter.
    I suggested the signet is neither ring or tablet but rather the magical symbol which could be scribed onto a ring or tablet or in theory anything really much like a rune.
    We reached out to Anet as well because this just wasn't clear in the lore and got a response that more or less said the same thing I suggested about the symbols/spells.
    I might be able to quote the response word for word later if my partner still has access to it.

    I don't know if I can talk about why that signet discussion happened though.. so to play it safe I'll keep my trap shut on that for now lol

    Not very convoluted either, tbh. There's multiple direct statements to signets being called rings from both games. From GW1:

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Panic/Skill_history
    Elite Hex Spell. Target foe and all nearby foes are Hexed with Panic for 10...22...25 seconds. While Hexed, they suffer Energy degeneration of 2 and take 10...68...82 damage whenever they use a Signet ring.
    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Ignorance/Skill_history
    Hex Spell. For 8...18...20 seconds, target foe cannot use Signet rings.
    It's also alluded to in the boss "Gao Han of the Rings" who has mostly signet skills equipped.
    And then lastly, the quest "Malaquire's Test" mentions a ring when talking about using the Signet of Capture:
    "Of course, there was a small chance that you might combust when the ring absorbed the...but this is a technical detail that I wouldn't want to bore you with."

    From GW2, there's the King's Sight skill from Be My Guest, which is similarly called a signet ring. Though what's curious there is that Braham says that signet rings are ancient magic unused anymore, while signets are still fairly active skills.

    Point being, at some point in time (including GW1's timeframe), without a doubt, signets were on rings. Whether they were only on rings is seemingly left unclear, but I've never seen mention of "signet tablets" so I'd love to see a link to such. Wouldn't mind seeing that response either, since that would be worth documenting on the wiki.

    Yeah there were strong indications many signets at least in Gw1's timeframe were typically rings and the term signet ring is what made many of the arguments in the discussion lead people to side with the ring argument.

    Gw2 brought up more arguments due to rings being a viable equipment thing and that people only had access to 2 of them yet most classes in the game still used signets as a type of skill.. there are also equipable signet rings in Gw2 as well and the fact that equipping those rings does not grant you skills associated to those signets was also brought up.

    This is what lead me to the theory that the "signet" is not the ring itself but rather the actual symbol and the spell associated to it.. and its the symbol itself which is what transcends into both games.
    The ring then being just a common item that signets were often inscribed to.. but the symbol and the magic that it relates to could be inscribed to just about anything.. making them very similar to runes and sigils in that regard which can be scribed onto stones, tablets, rings etc as well.
    The only real difference between them being how they function.. Signets being spells that enhance the users abilities/stats etc, Runes being magical enhancements to armour and Sigils doing exactly the same as Runes only for weapons instead.
    Their basic concept though is the same.. they're all just symbols with different names.

    I don't have a direct link to the quote as it was my wife who asked it but this is a screen cap of the response she got.
    She edited her name and the GM's name out though, I don't think she needed to edit the GM's name out but I can probably get it if it's important.
    https://imgur.com/HpFvMas

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited November 11, 2019

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    If Lich's don't have phylacteries in this universe then there wouldn't be a ring named as such in the game, it would just be a ring.
    The use of the world phylactery rather than ring and the fact that it's owner was a lich strongly implies that the ring held said lich's soul but the lack of confirmation on that is why this lore is unclear and why these discussions even took place in the first place.

    No, it doesn't, on both accounts. The use of the word only showcases that phylacteries are a thing, not that they're specifically the D&D interpretation. Phylacteries exist in DragonAge but don't hold souls; similarly, they're an actual traditional object in reality which, naturally, don't house souls. It's merely a personal interpretation of their existence and connection to undead to mean that they hold the same context.

    The term isn't even ever used in relation to Palawa Joko himself, so we have one instance where it's related to a lich - an instance with practically zero context that was introduced alongside a bunch of easter eggs and nods to GW1 that have zero lore value whatsoever - and another instance where it's completely unrelated to a lich. Out of these two instances, coming to the conclusion "it must function similar to D&D phylacteries" is simply put, an unfounded conclusion.

    And it's more than just Khilbron and Joko who were liches and killed without a phylactery. There's Fendi Nin, Zoldark, the Dragon Liches, and Mazdak the Accursed. And in four out of those cases, the method of death was ultimately the same, though through different means - unbinding the soul from the body. Which should be enough proof that phylacteries have nothing to do with the immortality of liches - at least in the traditional sense of housing their soul.

    Gw2 brought up more arguments due to rings being a viable equipment thing and that people only had access to 2 of them yet most classes in the game still used signets as a type of skill.. there are also equipable signet rings in Gw2 as well and the fact that equipping those rings does not grant you skills associated to those signets was also brought up.

    Ignoring the argument of "it's mechanics", obviously not all rings would be signet rings, and as shown by the Signet of Capture and Resurrection Signets in GW1, they can lose their power over time. I've always interpreted the ascended signet rings as exactly that - signet rings that have lost their power over time. And neither case really supports for or against modern signets being rings or not (though it is further proof that in the past they were).

    I don't have a direct link to the quote as it was my wife who asked it but this is a screen cap of the response she got.
    She edited her name and the GM's name out though, I don't think she needed to edit the GM's name out but I can probably get it if it's important.
    https://imgur.com/HpFvMas

    That screenshot's sufficient, though a name would be ideal. It's hard to see Anet's support as valid lore source though, since they don't tend to deal with the lore.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Teratus.2859Teratus.2859 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Teratus.2859 said:
    If Lich's don't have phylacteries in this universe then there wouldn't be a ring named as such in the game, it would just be a ring.
    The use of the world phylactery rather than ring and the fact that it's owner was a lich strongly implies that the ring held said lich's soul but the lack of confirmation on that is why this lore is unclear and why these discussions even took place in the first place.

    No, it doesn't, on both accounts. The use of the word only showcases that phylacteries are a thing, not that they're specifically the D&D interpretation. Phylacteries exist in DragonAge but don't hold souls; similarly, they're an actual traditional object in reality which, naturally, don't house souls. It's merely a personal interpretation of their existence and connection to undead to mean that they hold the same context.

    The term isn't even ever used in relation to Palawa Joko himself, so we have one instance where it's related to a lich - an instance with practically zero context that was introduced alongside a bunch of easter eggs and nods to GW1 that have zero lore value whatsoever - and another instance where it's completely unrelated to a lich. Out of these two instances, coming to the conclusion "it must function similar to D&D phylacteries" is simply put, an unfounded conclusion.

    And it's more than just Khilbron and Joko who were liches and killed without a phylactery. There's Fendi Nin, Zoldark, the Dragon Liches, and Mazdak the Accursed. And in four out of those cases, the method of death was ultimately the same, though through different means - unbinding the soul from the body. Which should be enough proof that phylacteries have nothing to do with the immortality of liches - at least in the traditional sense of housing their soul.

    We've gotten really off topic having this discussion again dude. XD

  • Dante.1508Dante.1508 Member ✭✭✭
    edited November 12, 2019

    @Taygus.4571 said:
    I really don't want to kill yet another elder dragon. It's too predictable, too boring.

    Gotta agree it did get old fast.. Prefer they focused on actual Guildwars not Dragons tbh.. The devs go on and on about not wanting to fit the standard fantasy genre then continually throw standard fantasy dragons at us.. very confusing.

    At least another Guildwars would shake up the planet a bit and actually make sense to the games names sake.. we could have Asura, Norn and humans verse Charr and Sylvari etc.. Or have us side with the other 5 or so gods and fight it out to be in control.

  • GW1 had various villains and stuff. That was fun-
    GW2 has just dragon stuff and I got tired by fighting "dragon leg" or "dragon head" for most of the story campaigns.

  • McPero.3287McPero.3287 Member ✭✭✭

    I mean they have everything at their disposal. We kill all elder dragons and Aurene consumes their energy becoming the ultimate elder dragon. Then in closing cinematic a hand breaks through her throat and Joko comes from it, Aurene falls dead and Joko consumes all her powers and resurrects her as his awakened minion this time. As it turns out Joko was alive inside her belly and resurrects her at end of LS4 in order for her to kill all Elder dragons so he can then kill her and consume all the power.
    And then we get Guild Wars 3, which takes place in Cantha. Joko rules over Tyria and Elona. We can play as a Canthan, Tyrian, Elonian, Ascalonian, Asura, Tengu, Sylvari, Norn, Charr, Dredge. Those who were stupid enough to flee from Joko's Reign of Eternal Peace found themselves as slaves of Canthan Empire, not Asura though little rats managed to weasel their way out of it by offering their big brain technology to Canthans and are allowed to stay inside their trade posts and districts. Human refugees mostly work as farmers or servants for Canthan run business or Canthan government institutions. Sylvari were expelled south to join Tengu in their concentration camps. Norn, Charr and Dredge the absolute monstrosities they are were sent to work in mines, factories and woods. Each race would have their own completely unique story and racial abilities which would be impactful in WvW. Story could go towards rebellion against Canthan Empire and invasion of Joko or us invading him to retake our homelands.

  • synk.6907synk.6907 Member ✭✭
    edited December 9, 2019

    As I recall, Kralk recognized her as something new. Maybe there will be other dragons like her to take the place of the others.

    Though Tyria may have no way to replace Zhaitan or Mordremoth at this point, with their magics spread everywhere else.

    edit: Oh, right, to the thread title: Yes, I hope she doesn't house it all. Tyria has been shown to be a system more than once. I'd prefer not to have that all be contained in one being.

    have fun and be excellent to one another