How to fix dps/elitist check on raids — Guild Wars 2 Forums

How to fix dps/elitist check on raids

SeikeNz.3526SeikeNz.3526 Member ✭✭✭

just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

Comments

  • That would increase toxicity instead of lowering it. You have no idea how raids work. Will also make scrapper mechanic completely useless. I mean even more. Do you even know how tanks in this game work?

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    I take it that you haven’t raided before? Everyone brings a tank and healer(s). You should also see what full defensive stats actually provide over full offensive stats.

  • Cyninja.2954Cyninja.2954 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is kind of obvious that topic creator has never raided before in GW2.

    FYI SeikeNz, regular raids are setup with:

    • 2 healers (druid+x in general)
    • 2 further supports bringing the other boons which the healers do not bring (chrono, renegade, firebrand, etc)
    • 1 banner warrior (which is technically a intermediate between support and dps)
    • 5 dps

    Your suggestion makes absolutely no sense and would not in any way achieve whatever goal you were aiming for (I'm going to assume you believe that raids are run by 10 dps with no defensive gear without supports, that's how your suggestion reads). Suffice to say, you are hilariously misinformed.

  • Making things more difficult = people expect more from others and that's why some players are toxic.

    I don't like sand. It's coarse, and rough, and irritating, and it gets everywhere.

  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 12, 2019

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    1. people are already taking tanks and healers, if you haven't noticed
    2. what you propose would make the requirements higher, not lower.

    The only way to make people have lower/no requirements for raids is to lower the difficulty of the content. Only when players will no longer feel potential lower skill of others might cause problems with finishing the content will they stop using requirements meant to guarantee that basic skill level they think they need.
    And, frankly, raids currently are at a difficulty level where feeling thus is justified. As long as that part remains true, the checks will remain as well.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    • Try fighting VG with a player that pulls in the red orbs.
    • Try fighting Sabetha where a player fails to move bomb off group or throw greens for cannons.
    • Try fighting Sloth where a player with fixation doesn’t move the boss properly or drop poison away from group.
    • Try fighting Mathias where a player doesn’t drop the well off group. Or more recently, a mirage that can’t reflect properly and constantly gets downed.
    • Try fighting KC with a player that always attacks orb, doesn’t split from group when having the AoE, and/or properly position the projections when they have fixation.
    • Try fighting Xera with someone that doesn’t use the shield properly when given the special action ability.
    • Try fighting Deimos with a player that always steps on oils.
    • Try fighting Dhuum with a player that doesn’t split when tethered to another player, explodes bomb on group, or doesn’t collect orbs quickly (including big one) when doing greens.
    • Try fighting Largos where someone doesn’t drop pools at end of platform.

    Those are a handful of mechanics that I can think of off the top of my head where an inexperienced player can greatly hinder the group or even cause a wipe. There are many others that affect a player’s individual performance such as constantly getting ported at VG. Having defensive stats doesn’t really help with any of these.

  • give under achievers more rewards.

    Te lazla otstra.

  • Making a clear redefined trinity in game would make raiding smoother.

  • Nephalem.8921Nephalem.8921 Member ✭✭✭

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    Making a clear redefined trinity in game would make raiding smoother.

    what do you mean with that? there is already dps and healers. Tank is just not necessary since there is no threat system so just the one with highest toughness has boss aggro. Dedicated tank that isn't a boon support or healer wont work or be fun. What would be the gameplay? Would just be a perma evade or block build with super high toughness.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    • Try fighting VG with a player that pulls in the red orbs.
    • Try fighting Sabetha where a player fails to move bomb off group or throw greens for cannons.
    • Try fighting Sloth where a player with fixation doesn’t move the boss properly or drop poison away from group.
    • Try fighting Mathias where a player doesn’t drop the well off group. Or more recently, a mirage that can’t reflect properly and constantly gets downed.
    • Try fighting KC with a player that always attacks orb, doesn’t split from group when having the AoE, and/or properly position the projections when they have fixation.
    • Try fighting Xera with someone that doesn’t use the shield properly when given the special action ability.
    • Try fighting Deimos with a player that always steps on oils.
    • Try fighting Dhuum with a player that doesn’t split when tethered to another player, explodes bomb on group, or doesn’t collect orbs quickly (including big one) when doing greens.
    • Try fighting Largos where someone doesn’t drop pools at end of platform.

    Those are a handful of mechanics that I can think of off the top of my head where an inexperienced player can greatly hinder the group or even cause a wipe. There are many others that affect a player’s individual performance such as constantly getting ported at VG. Having defensive stats doesn’t really help with any of these.

    ty u make my day i'm laughting loudly XD

  • @Nephalem.8921 said:

    @dodgerrule.8739 said:
    Making a clear redefined trinity in game would make raiding smoother.

    what do you mean with that? there is already dps and healers. Tank is just not necessary since there is no threat system so just the one with highest toughness has boss aggro. Dedicated tank that isn't a boon support or healer wont work or be fun. What would be the gameplay? Would just be a perma evade or block build with super high toughness.

    Threat is generated based on highest toughness.
    Dps is just a kitten storm to master so 80% of players play warriors and healer and tanks aren’t that common even though they’re super easy to do

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @LordMorgul.9845 said:

    @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    • Try fighting VG with a player that pulls in the red orbs.
    • Try fighting Sabetha where a player fails to move bomb off group or throw greens for cannons.
    • Try fighting Sloth where a player with fixation doesn’t move the boss properly or drop poison away from group.
    • Try fighting Mathias where a player doesn’t drop the well off group. Or more recently, a mirage that can’t reflect properly and constantly gets downed.
    • Try fighting KC with a player that always attacks orb, doesn’t split from group when having the AoE, and/or properly position the projections when they have fixation.
    • Try fighting Xera with someone that doesn’t use the shield properly when given the special action ability.
    • Try fighting Deimos with a player that always steps on oils.
    • Try fighting Dhuum with a player that doesn’t split when tethered to another player, explodes bomb on group, or doesn’t collect orbs quickly (including big one) when doing greens.
    • Try fighting Largos where someone doesn’t drop pools at end of platform.

    Those are a handful of mechanics that I can think of off the top of my head where an inexperienced player can greatly hinder the group or even cause a wipe. There are many others that affect a player’s individual performance such as constantly getting ported at VG. Having defensive stats doesn’t really help with any of these.

    ty u make my day i'm laughting loudly XD

    No problem?

  • Dadnir.5038Dadnir.5038 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 18, 2019

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:
    give under achievers more rewards.

    Give more reward to players that kill the boss after the time limit (1 gold per extra minute, caped to 5 golds), give achievement when there is no dead in the raid and the boss is killed after the time limit (1 achievement per extra minute, caped to 5 minutes, Last achievement We've seen [boss name]'s everything, Wing achievement: We've cleaned [wing]!).

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭✭

    The easiest way to prevent DPS Checks would be for Anet to simply no longer allow the use of DPS meters.
    But that's not going to happen.

  • Virdo.1540Virdo.1540 Member ✭✭✭

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    The easiest way to prevent DPS Checks would be for Anet to simply no longer allow the use of DPS meters.
    But that's not going to happen.

    +1
    They said they wont allow addons , so they shouldnt allow such

    Then they can also allow addons where u can see others gear and traits too

  • Xar.6279Xar.6279 Member ✭✭✭

    Or just remove veteran raiders from the game :P

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Xar.6279 said:
    Or just remove veteran raiders from the game :P

    Anet is hard at work making that a reality, with lack and content and the Template fiasco.

    Removing things like DPS Meters would pretty much make everything worse which those advocating for their removal are complaining about, much like Cyninja explained.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Henry.5713Henry.5713 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 21, 2019

    @Asum.4960 said:

    @Xar.6279 said:
    Or just remove veteran raiders from the game :P

    Anet is hard at work making that a reality, with lack and content and the Template fiasco.

    Removing things like DPS Meters would pretty much make everything worse which those advocating for their removal are complaining about, much like Cyninja explained.

    @Virdo.1540 said:

    @Fueki.4753 said:
    The easiest way to prevent DPS Checks would be for Anet to simply no longer allow the use of DPS meters.
    But that's not going to happen.

    +1
    They said they wont allow addons , so they shouldnt allow such

    Then they can also allow addons where u can see others gear and traits too

    Banning the use of DPS meters would certainly be equal to skipping right to the last nail in the coffin as far as killing off raiding as a whole is concerned. Those few poor victims of elitism who are supposedly kept from raiding by these DPS checks will no longer find any groups in the first place. Don't see how this would help them in the long run.

    Banning the templates side of Arc is annoying even if not entirely surprising. They said they would allow it until there was an ingame feature from what I remember. The official alternative they are providing us with is rather lacking, not arguing with that. I personally don't even mind the price tag but that's another story. Would mind it even less if the feature had everything I wanted. That said, build templates are and will always be just a convenience tool. Great convenience but just a convenience in the end.

    However and no matter how weird this sounds, the meter and logging features of Arc are a different story. They provide the semi-hardcore - hardcore community with this very specific type of content. It is more interesting raid content than the developers ever could or are willing give us.
    Think about it this way - all we have left is to review raid logs for tiny details to possibly improve bosses we have run a thousand times already, to figure out new compositions or slight variantions on builds and simply to allow us to discuss and theorycraf further min-maxing. And again, that is all there is left with this lack of content and new wings being released which hardly take you a week to finish, CMs and achievements done and all that after you wait for year. Take DPS meters away and the few remaining dedicated players will be gone. Certainly the case for me when logs and doing silly min-maxing is still fun. At least for now.

    Progress isn't made by early risers. It's made by lazy men trying to find easier ways to do something. ~ Robert Heinlein

  • True, let's delete downstate. Want to see how the completion rate for even VG drops from a few % to sub 1?
    People who are skilled and therefore can allow themselves to be elitist... well, we will stay the same way because we don't get downed nearly as often as regular pugs.

    But, sure, have fun pushing great ideas you've definitely put in more than 30s to think through. /s

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SeikeNz.3526 said:
    just remove downed stats from raids, that will bring a new level of difficult also will punish players that go full dps and don't bring healers and tanks with them

    What makes you think people want to subject themselves to playing a game where they are punished? Do you even understand why this game exists and why it's successful? It's definitely NOT because there is only one way to do things.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • Obtena.7952Obtena.7952 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 30, 2019

    @shejesa.3712 said:

    @Obtena.7952 said:
    What makes you think people want to subject themselves to playing a game where they are punished? Do you even understand why this game exists and why it's successful? It's definitely NOT because there is only one way to do things.

    Huh, it's you again XD

    Why do you think soulsborne games are so popular?

    I don't know and doesn't seem all that relevant anyways. Frankly,, nothing you said there means much at all. If you have a point, just say it.

    If you think balancing is only driven by performance and justified by comparisons to other classes then prepare to be educated:

    https://www.guildwars2.com/en/news/balance-updates-the-heralds-near-future-and-pvp-league-season-13/

  • @Virdo.1540 said:
    Then they can also allow addons where u can see others gear and traits too

    Yep, which is a significant in pvp and wvw.. but thats not all it does.. it actually does more, *hint imagine being the raid boss.. >___~"

    I admit i was baited by OP's title but the solution doesnt make much sense to me.. :/

  • If ANET wants DPS meters in their game they should/would implement it, so it actually does what its supposed to without giving hack-level advantages to em !?## ne'er-do-wells..

    come to think of it, they already did on the practice golem, cept it wasn't what abusive people had in mind cuz they couldn't carry it around and smack people with it. ^^

  • @shejesa.3712 said:
    Why do you think soulsborne games are so popular?

    This is Guild Wars 2 though, I dont see the relevance, not everybody wants to play a soulsborne game in Guild Wars 2, otherwise they'd play a soulsborne game.. and not Guild Wars 2. 🤔

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    have a static group

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Mini Crinny.6190Mini Crinny.6190 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Everyone is just a filthy casual

  • Solitude.2097Solitude.2097 Member ✭✭
    edited November 14, 2019

    1) Allow each player to ban+blacklist+delete other characters with a single button .
    2) The boss will takes specific amount of damage per player , every 5 sec .
    Every Boss will take 5.000/s x5 sec = 25.000 damage from that specific player in a 5 sec lifespan .
    The rest of the damage goes to overflow = straight into the Bin , or increase your chance for rewards .
    Regadles of how much damage the dps addons is showing

    Or every 5 sec , the Boss will take selfdamage , boosting/equalizing all damage across the dps charts . Let it show as if each player where using Fire or Lighting Sigils.
    Edit: Or the next damage spec , also triggers a xxx (for example5.000) amount of damage done to the boss , to be more equal in the dps addons .

    3) Allow to switch weapons in combat , or buy weapons from a NPC that have the same effect
    4) The bosses , every 10 sec becomes Vulnerability to a specific type of weapon , boosting your total dps by 10% . So dance like a monkey , switching constantly weapons.
    5) The more danceweaponing you do => more chances to get better rewards
    6) PPL that have already Legendary , get increased Reward
    7) Ban whoever plays Smite

    edit2: you know , what ? just make every single auto attack to do OVER 9.000 damage...

    Need some things to sort out , till the start of March
    In Semptember ... i am sorry.... but it will be my last chance to get in Coellege , at my age

  • Ayrilana.1396Ayrilana.1396 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Solitude.2097 said:
    1) Allow each player to ban+blacklist+delete other characters with a single button .
    2) The boss will takes specific amount of damage per player , every 5 sec .
    Every Boss will take 5.000/s x5 sec = 25.000 damage from that specific player in a 5 sec lifespan .
    The rest of the damage goes to overflow = straight into the Bin .
    Regadles of how much damage the dps addons is showing

    Or every 5 sec , the Boss will take selfdamage , boosting/equalizing all damage across the dps charts . Let it show as if each player where using Fire or Lighting Sigils.

    3) Allow to switch weapons in combat , or buy weapons from a NPC that have the same effect
    4) The bosses , every 10 sec becomes Vulnerability to a specific type of weapon , boosting your total dps by 10% . So dance like a monkey , switching constantly weapons.
    5) The more danceweaponing you do => more chances to get better rewards
    6) PPL that have already Legendary , get increased Reward
    7) Ban whoever plays Smite

    Funny.

  • @Ayrilana.1396 said:

    @Solitude.2097 said:
    1) Allow each player to ban+blacklist+delete other characters with a single button .
    2) The boss will takes specific amount of damage per player , every 5 sec .
    Every Boss will take 5.000/s x5 sec = 25.000 damage from that specific player in a 5 sec lifespan .
    The rest of the damage goes to overflow = straight into the Bin .
    Regadles of how much damage the dps addons is showing

    Or every 5 sec , the Boss will take selfdamage , boosting/equalizing all damage across the dps charts . Let it show as if each player where using Fire or Lighting Sigils.

    3) Allow to switch weapons in combat , or buy weapons from a NPC that have the same effect
    4) The bosses , every 10 sec becomes Vulnerability to a specific type of weapon , boosting your total dps by 10% . So dance like a monkey , switching constantly weapons.
    5) The more danceweaponing you do => more chances to get better rewards
    6) PPL that have already Legendary , get increased Reward
    7) Ban whoever plays Smite

    Funny.

    https://i.ytimg.com/vi/_IU5Aoxn6h8/hqdefault.jpg

    Need some things to sort out , till the start of March
    In Semptember ... i am sorry.... but it will be my last chance to get in Coellege , at my age

  • @Henry.5713 said:
    Removing all healers always fixes every single problem about balance or gameplay.

    This is very true statement.