What was the reasoning behind Abaddon's connection to the Charr? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

What was the reasoning behind Abaddon's connection to the Charr?

Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

What was the reasoning behind Abaddon's connection to the Charr? Seems he was behind the Charr invasion of the Human kingdoms, but why was this and why did the Charr associate with him?
Why did he want to destroy the humans? Seem like he played a big role in the destruction of Orr, Ascalon, Elona and Cantha. Not sure I understand why

Comments

  • @Knighthonor.4061 said:
    What was the reasoning behind Abaddon's connection to the Charr? Seems he was behind the Charr invasion of the Human kingdoms, but why was this and why did the Charr associate with him?
    Why did he want to destroy the humans? Seem like he played a big role in the destruction of Orr, Ascalon, Elona and Cantha. Not sure I understand why

    Abaddon's connection to the charr was by the titans. His more direct connection was to the Vizier in Orr who caused the cataclysm.

    The Titans merely gifted the Charr the searing magic and posed as gods.

  • He wanted revenge on the other gods, and wanted to break free out of his prison. He used the charr to assault Orr and Arah, the City of Gods (revenge), which pushed Khilbron to attempt to open the Door of Komalie that would allow his forces (via alliance with Dhuum) to invade Tyria freely and bring about Nightfall (his freedom).

    He didn't seem to care about destroying humans, per se, but his three generals (Khilbron, Shiro, and Varesh) were all setting out to use an army to prepare for Nightfall in their own manners.

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  • Operator.2590Operator.2590 Member
    edited September 13, 2019

    They Gods aided Humans in spreading throughout Tyria. The Charr had only just recently claimed Ascalon before the humans showed up and drove them back with the help of their Gods. So, the Charr set out to find gods of their own to help them in their conquest.

    Fast forward, Abaddon's locked away, the Human Gods have decided to take a backseat, and the Humans are at civil war thanks to the White Mantle, who are being lead along by the Mursaat. The Mursaat want to keep the Door of Komalie closed and sealed, because in The Flameseeker Prophecies written by Glint, it will lead to the fall of the Mursaat race. So, with the White Mantle's help, they sacrifice Chosen Humans to power these "Soul Batteries" keeping the Door all locked up.

    Well, homeboy Abaddon is so powerful, he's still pulling strings on the surface in his plans to escape. The Charr needed Gods of their own? He gave it to them via the Titans, as well as giving the Titans the Searing magic to pass along to the Charr. (The Charr also found these Titans at "Abaddon's Mouth" in the Ring of Fire).

    So the Charr go and free their "gods", Mursaat get killed (except Lazarus), and the Charr kill the Titans once they see what the Titans actually were. Abaddon didn't really care about "killing Humans" so much as he cared about just destroying anything and everything the other Gods showed any semblance of interest in, since they "betrayed" him. The only Humans he really cared about were his specific worshipers, who were imprisoned with him (the Margonites).

    "The Sun will be divided that it might not sire children. Still its children shall be Four in number, and Seven in number, and be Numberless. The Numberless shall open the way for the Seven, and the Seven shall consume the Four..."

  • @Operator.2590 said:
    They Gods aided Humans in spreading throughout Tyria. The Charr had only just recently claimed Ascalon before the humans showed up and drove them back with the help of their Gods. So, the Charr set out to find gods of their own to help them in their conquest.

    Fast forward, Abaddon's locked away, the Human Gods have decided to take a backseat, and the Humans are at civil war thanks to the White Mantle, who are being lead along by the Mursaat. The Mursaat want to keep the Door of Komalie closed and sealed, because in The Flameseeker Prophecies written by Glint, it will lead to the fall of the Mursaat race. So, with the White Mantle's help, they sacrifice Chosen Humans to power these "Soul Batteries" keeping the Door all locked up.

    Well, homeboy Abaddon is so powerful, he's still pulling strings on the surface in his plans to escape. The Charr needed Gods of their own? He gave it to them via the Titans, as well as giving the Titans the Searing magic to pass along to the Charr. (The Charr also found these Titans at "Abaddon's Mouth" in the Ring of Fire).

    So the Charr go and free their "gods", Mursaat get killed (except Lazarus), and the Charr kill the Titans once they see what the Titans actually were. Abaddon didn't really care about "killing Humans" so much as he cared about just destroying anything and everything the other Gods showed any semblance of interest in, since they "betrayed" him. The only Humans he really cared about were his specific worshipers, who were imprisoned with him (the Margonites).

    You got your timeline a bit mixed up.

    Humanity was not at civil war because of the White Mantle. The guild wars caused a rift between the three nations, with the Ascalon king being extremely anti-Krytan. Orr finally broke up the wars, but the political damage was already done. The Mursaat weren't even a presence at this point. The Charr never went to the Ring of Fire until after GW1, as we know the flame legion eventually sent a group out to recover Rurik's sword (that Rytlock stole shortly afterward).

    The flame legion found a titan/some titans within a volcano in/around the Ascalon area, who gave them powerful magic and later, the searing cauldrons. Flame legion dominated the other three legions and became the "rulers" for the time. The searing cauldron allowed them to damage the great Northern wall, meaning an army could rush to Orr. This caused the Vizier to use the forbidden scrolls and cause the Cataclysm. Was this Abaddon's plan? Unknown. But an agent of Abaddon's helped cause it.

    Charr also invaded Kryta, causing the king to flee. As the Charr got closer, Saul came back with the "unseen ones", forming the white mantle who saved Kryta, though they didn't know the cost. 2 years later Ascalon refugees arrived, and the whole thing started the downfall of the White Mantle.

    The charr didn't kill the titans at all actually. Humans wiped out the titans in Ascalon after the events of Prophecies campaign. The disappearance/death of their gods rattled the Charr, and the flame legion started to lose control. In a mad plot to regain power by introducing "New fire gods" they tried to use the destroyers for this goal, but it ended up backfiring (the destroyers attacked them) and an Anti-flame legion revolution started brewing with Pyre Fierceshot.

  • Konig Des Todes.2086Konig Des Todes.2086 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @Operator.2590 said:
    They Gods aided Humans in spreading throughout Tyria. The Charr had only just recently claimed Ascalon before the humans showed up and drove them back with the help of their Gods. So, the Charr set out to find gods of their own to help them in their conquest.

    Fast forward, Abaddon's locked away, the Human Gods have decided to take a backseat, and the Humans are at civil war thanks to the White Mantle, who are being lead along by the Mursaat. The Mursaat want to keep the Door of Komalie closed and sealed, because in The Flameseeker Prophecies written by Glint, it will lead to the fall of the Mursaat race. So, with the White Mantle's help, they sacrifice Chosen Humans to power these "Soul Batteries" keeping the Door all locked up.

    Well, homeboy Abaddon is so powerful, he's still pulling strings on the surface in his plans to escape. The Charr needed Gods of their own? He gave it to them via the Titans, as well as giving the Titans the Searing magic to pass along to the Charr. (The Charr also found these Titans at "Abaddon's Mouth" in the Ring of Fire).

    So the Charr go and free their "gods", Mursaat get killed (except Lazarus), and the Charr kill the Titans once they see what the Titans actually were. Abaddon didn't really care about "killing Humans" so much as he cared about just destroying anything and everything the other Gods showed any semblance of interest in, since they "betrayed" him. The only Humans he really cared about were his specific worshipers, who were imprisoned with him (the Margonites).

    You got your timeline a bit mixed up.

    Humanity was not at civil war because of the White Mantle. The guild wars caused a rift between the three nations, with the Ascalon king being extremely anti-Krytan. Orr finally broke up the wars, but the political damage was already done. The Mursaat weren't even a presence at this point. The Charr never went to the Ring of Fire until after GW1, as we know the flame legion eventually sent a group out to recover Rurik's sword (that Rytlock stole shortly afterward).

    The flame legion found a titan/some titans within a volcano in/around the Ascalon area, who gave them powerful magic and later, the searing cauldrons. Flame legion dominated the other three legions and became the "rulers" for the time. The searing cauldron allowed them to damage the great Northern wall, meaning an army could rush to Orr. This caused the Vizier to use the forbidden scrolls and cause the Cataclysm. Was this Abaddon's plan? Unknown. But an agent of Abaddon's helped cause it.

    Charr also invaded Kryta, causing the king to flee. As the Charr got closer, Saul came back with the "unseen ones", forming the white mantle who saved Kryta, though they didn't know the cost. 2 years later Ascalon refugees arrived, and the whole thing started the downfall of the White Mantle.

    The charr didn't kill the titans at all actually. Humans wiped out the titans in Ascalon after the events of Prophecies campaign. The disappearance/death of their gods rattled the Charr, and the flame legion started to lose control. In a mad plot to regain power by introducing "New fire gods" they tried to use the destroyers for this goal, but it ended up backfiring (the destroyers attacked them) and an Anti-flame legion revolution started brewing with Pyre Fierceshot.

    Ascalon wasn't even necessarily anti-Kryta before the charr got their "gods" in the form of the Titans. And Orr didn't break up any of the Guild Wars either, really.

    The charr discovered the titans in 870 AE; the Third Guild War began in 1013 AE, and the White Mantle were founded in 1067 AE, The Searing occurred in 1070 AE, and the Cataclysm in 1071 AE. The White Mantle civil war didn't begin until mid-Prophecies storyline (1072 AE), as the White Mantle cleanly took over after King Jadon fleeing from the charr, and Saul's supposed "sacrifice" to repel the charr "at the cost of his life" (which happened in either 1070 or 1071 AE; it's unclear whether the mursaat were sacrificing Chosen since 1067 or after Saul's disappearance - Saul wouldn't allow the sacrificing, but they could have gone behind his back).

    One other issue: The Titans were not discovered at Abaddon's Mouth, but at Hrangmer. This is where the Citadel of Flame was built later on.

    As to the charr killing the titans - Pyre and his warband actually did kill a titan, and this was why he was imprisoned as we met him in EotN. After witnessing the titans die to humans in Prophecies (specifically the Last Day Dawns and The Titan Source quests), Pyre rebelled and at one point, killed a "god", where they were marked as criminals, and eventually captured.

    To clarify, the timeline in whole on this subject (as we know it) is:

    Unknown date: Under leadership of the Khan-Ur, the charr invade eastward and conquer the lands of Blood Legion Homelands and Ascalon, begin battling dwarves and Forgotten.
    100 BE: Under the purview of Balthazar, humans conquer Ascalon as the Khan-Ur is assassinated by unclear means.
    1 BE: Abaddon rebels and is imprisoned in the Realm of Torment.
    Year 0: The Five Gods leave Tyria for the realms in the Mists.
    870 AE: Flame Legion's Burnt Warband discover the titans at Hrangmer (eventual home of Flame Citadel after Ascalon falls to charr hands).
    (Following years: Flame Legion use the titans to usurp control over the other three legions, Balthea's rebellion leads to forcing females off the battlefield. Titans give Flame Legion the Cauldron of Cataclysm, which the Flame Legion use to create multiple more Searing Cauldrons.)
    898 AE: Great Northern Wall is built due to increased charr activity.
    1013 AE: The Third Guild War begins, with Orr eventually joining for the first time.
    1020 AE: End of the Second Guild War commemorated at Surmia's founding.
    1067 AE: White Mantle founded by Saul's return from his exile.
    1070 AE: The Charr perform the Searing. Third Guild War comes to an end.
    (1070 or 1071 AE: King Jadon flees from charr threat. Saul is taken by mursaat, his disappearance portrayed as a matyrdom against the charr, giving White Mantle ease command of Kryta. Mursaat begin sacrificing the Chosen to keep the Door of Komalie closed.)
    1071 AE: The Cataclysm occurs, sinking Orr.
    1072 AE: The Titans are defeated by humans, this act is witnessed by several charr, including Pyre Fierceshot. Shining Blade rebellion in Kryta becomes full-fledged civil war against the White Mantle. Mursaat are nearly wiped out, leaving 8 survivors.
    1072-1078 AE: Pyre and the Fierce warband defeats some titan(s), and get captured.
    1075 AE: Nightfall occurs, Abaddon dies.
    1078 AE: Last Titan on Tyria is killed, Destroyers get marked gods and wipe out Hierophant, Pyre sparks his revolution.
    1079 AE: Krytan Civil War's climax is reached, all but one mursaat killed, and White Mantle go into hiding in the Maguuma.
    1088 AE: Krytan Civil War officially ends.

    Sometime between 1280 and 1320 AE: Flame Legion recover Sohothin, which Rytlock then steals before it can be delivered to Gaheron. (Exact date unclear, as is Rytlock's age now or when he stole Sohothin; but it was some time before 1320 AE.)

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