Do Revenants want the option to customize Legend skills? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Do Revenants want the option to customize Legend skills?

Do Revenants want the option to customize Legend skills?
Or do you prefer the uniqueness of the Revenant's class Legend mechanics just as is?

Do Revenants want the option to customize Legend skills? 28 votes

Prefer it as is
42%
derd.6413LucianTheAngelic.7054Justine.6351ArthurDent.9538Aeolus.3615Master Ketsu.4569Catchyfx.5768Lexi.1398Shao.7236kiri.1467Doto.6357LowestTruth.2635 12 votes
Would prefer option to Customize the skills
57%
MithranArkanere.8957Kravey.4563Lonami.2987kroof.5468Kossuth.2168DonArkanio.6419InsaneQR.7412Arkantos.7460Thornwolf.9721Fueki.4753Antycypator.9874Weasel.9684Jarl.8607Virdo.1540zaswer.5246Engal.6359 16 votes

Comments

  • Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    I would prefer if revenants with the same weapon and under the same legend didn't always have the same exact skills.

    For that, I'd like them to have 4th utility per legend, being able to pick 3 out of 4.
    Also, I'd like more traits that change weapon skills. For example, something like this:

    • Vicious Lacerations

      • Precision Strike turns into Ferocious Strike, which Deals more damage and fires 5 projectiles instead 3.
    • Vital Blessing

      • Now also makes healing orbs gravitate towards the nearest player under 90%HP withing 600 units of each orb.
      • Surge of the Mists turns into Healing Surge, which creates a healing orb every time in interrupts an enemy.
    • Dwarven Battle Training

      • Now also makes Hammer Bolts return to the revenant if they hit nothing in their way out.
      • Field of the Mists turns into Wall of the Mists, which also covers the flanks, but not the back, and returns 5 energy each second it blocks at least 1 attack.
    • Venom Enhancement

      • Instead dealing poison when dealing torment, now poison you deal becomes contagious. Every second, enemies around an enemy you have poisoned gain a stack of poison for 3s.
      • Echoing Eruption turns into Toxic Eruption, which also deals 1 stacks of poison, plus another stack of poison for each condition on the enemy hit, up to 3.
    • Abyssal Chill

      • Frigid Blitz turns into Glacial Vacuum, which pulls enemies hit in its path towards the last enemy hit when the revenant shadows steps.

    And so on.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    I'd like to see an general skill category that works with the overall mists-theme of the Revenant.
    These skills then could be switched with "Legendary" skills for each Legend.

    These skills could apply evasion and/or resistance by partially phasing into the mists.
    However, these should also be upkeep skills to have them interact with the Energy mechanic.

  • Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    Revenants have more habilities than the rest of the classes and still i have the feeling that i am using the same 2 utilities all the time (usually the upkeep skills as theyre the strongest with the lowest cost of energy)
    I would like to see some new skills that actually hit the enemy in shiro or maybe the gap closer that gives us unblokable and 20%dmg for 2 hits split in a gap closer that makes dmg and a skill that boots dmg and makes us unblocake for 2 secs
    In jalis more skills that give retaliation (at least one because you only have the heal and in the jalis trait line (retribution) a lot of traits are about buff dmg when having retaliation or getting reta when rolling )
    Ventari maybe a buff skill?
    Glint i think is fine except for the ulty , the push with superspeed and dmg is fine but the upkeep giving only protection at a cost of -4 is too much in my opinion (at least make it give quicknes or stability)
    For kalla i think a new summon spirit could be fine if summons couldnt die so easily but maybe a skill that makes you do something yourself would be better
    And please look at the trait lines as some need to change traits

  • Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    Every legend should have additional skills above energy bar just like Renegade has, but let us choose and mix them (they don't change if we swap legends).

    Commander, to ME!

  • phokus.8934phokus.8934 Member ✭✭✭✭

    If Revenants didn't have weapon swap then sure, this'd be great. But don't expect a core functionality like this to change at all.

  • Prefer it as is

    A 4th utility would be nice, but beyond that I don't want to see it changed

  • Shao.7236Shao.7236 Member ✭✭✭
    Prefer it as is

    Don't change what makes Revenant the wonderful thing it is.

    Having little cooldown to prevent spam, presets to keep legends relevant in their own respect.

    You know that everyone will use Riposting Shadow and Phase Traversal together the most with whatever the rest suits the current match up.

  • Pterikdactyl.7630Pterikdactyl.7630 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    If I am understanding you correctly, I think the dual-legend system is fine as is. Like @LucianTheAngelic.7054 mentioned, I would be happy if there were 4 utility skills for each, but it's hard to imagine exactly what those could be. Personally speaking, I have been a bit bored by both elite spec's interaction with the legend system. Herald at least has some vague interaction with Facet of Nature, but thus far the designs have been rather straightforward and lacking complexity. I often think of Tempest and especially Weaver as being interesting design inspirations for Revenant as legend-swapping has many similarities to attunement-swapping. I would love to have an elite spec that has less emphasis on the new legend and instead focus on the interaction between the two you choose.

    Healing orbs are a mistake. Please delete them ANet.

  • Justine.6351Justine.6351 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Prefer it as is

    Customization would be bad.

    Anet buff me :-(
    Make me good at game!

  • LowestTruth.2635LowestTruth.2635 Member ✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    They already have problems balancing within the constraints that are currently there with static sets. The energy system has already been fundamentally compromised by adding cooldowns to skills, changing what Revenant was supposed to be about.

    I want them to make a final decision between using energy or using cooldowns. Remove one. Maybe then we can talk about changing skills up.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:
    They already have problems balancing within the constraints that are currently there with static sets. The energy system has already been fundamentally compromised by adding cooldowns to skills, changing what Revenant was supposed to be about.

    I want them to make a final decision between using energy or using cooldowns. Remove one. Maybe then we can talk about changing skills up.

    Both sometimes are needed, gw1 also had energy management and CD a lot of mmos use the same mechanics.

    The versatility on rev is that the devs can make a CD legend, a hybrid legend wich most are like that, and on later date we can have some that is more based on no CD with only e-management like some shiro utilities

  • Prefer it as is

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Both sometimes are needed, gw1 also had energy management and CD a lot of mmos use the same mechanics.

    I don't disagree; if the class and skills are designed that way from the beginning. For Revenant specifically, my opinion is that it does not work.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Both sometimes are needed, gw1 also had energy management and CD a lot of mmos use the same mechanics.

    I don't disagree; if the class and skills are designed that way from the beginning. For Revenant specifically, my opinion is that it does not work.

    Wich skills are not working or I feel they are not working?
    facets have minimal CD but they consume with passive effect.
    Jalis uses skills with CD and others with energy dependent and so on...

    The only issue I find is that some skills are not tuned for the current gameplay, that end but to expensive due low result for being expensive, this mostly on deamon and assassin legends.

  • Prefer it as is

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Both sometimes are needed, gw1 also had energy management and CD a lot of mmos use the same mechanics.

    I don't disagree; if the class and skills are designed that way from the beginning. For Revenant specifically, my opinion is that it does not work.

    Wich skills are not working or I feel they are not working?
    facets have minimal CD but they consume with passive effect.
    Jalis uses skills with CD and others with energy dependent and so on...

    The only issue I find is that some skills are not tuned for the current gameplay, that end but to expensive due low result for being expensive, this mostly on deamon and assassin legends.

    Basically: skills are expensive and then they add a cooldown. Both are not necessary and make gameplay clunky. Energy is supposed to be the resource spent - the player is supposed to choose what combination to use at what time. Two expensive skills? One expensive and two cheap? Four cheap? Hold the energy until three expensive skills can be spammed?

    Energy generation and spend is what should be the balancing factor, as intended. If skill X that costs Y energy should not be used Z times a minute, then Y is increased. Regain energy by swapping legends or smacking things. Make your choices.

    Adding a cooldown makes balancing easier; it's also easier to think about limiting things by time instead of by energy. If you don't want someone to use skill X a certain number of times, you increase the cooldown.

    The cooldowns remove the purpose of a skill costing energy. There are now two currencies for every skill. Energy is now a pointless and clunky resource because things are balanced around cooldowns - now I just spam skills based on cooldowns instead of considering my energy. The cooldowns force me not to think about energy costs, because it doesn't matter if I have the energy to spend.

    That's all very simplistic - there are reams of discussions about how what skills are affected and how and why and whether they're useless or not, but that's where my opinion lands. Thus, I want them to pick one. Energy or cooldowns, not both.

  • Prefer it as is

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @LowestTruth.2635 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Both sometimes are needed, gw1 also had energy management and CD a lot of mmos use the same mechanics.

    I don't disagree; if the class and skills are designed that way from the beginning. For Revenant specifically, my opinion is that it does not work.

    Wich skills are not working or I feel they are not working?
    facets have minimal CD but they consume with passive effect.
    Jalis uses skills with CD and others with energy dependent and so on...

    The only issue I find is that some skills are not tuned for the current gameplay, that end but to expensive due low result for being expensive, this mostly on deamon and assassin legends.

    Basically: skills are expensive and then they add a cooldown. Both are not necessary and make gameplay clunky. Energy is supposed to be the resource spent - the player is supposed to choose what combination to use at what time. Two expensive skills? One expensive and two cheap? Four cheap? Hold the energy until three expensive skills can be spammed?

    Energy generation and spend is what should be the balancing factor, as intended. If skill X that costs Y energy should not be used Z times a minute, then Y is increased. Regain energy by swapping legends or smacking things. Make your choices.

    Adding a cooldown makes balancing easier; it's also easier to think about limiting things by time instead of by energy. If you don't want someone to use skill X a certain number of times, you increase the cooldown.

    The cooldowns remove the purpose of a skill costing energy. There are now two currencies for every skill. Energy is now a pointless and clunky resource because things are balanced around cooldowns - now I just spam skills based on cooldowns instead of considering my energy. The cooldowns force me not to think about energy costs, because it doesn't matter if I have the energy to spend.

    That's all very simplistic - there are reams of discussions about how what skills are affected and how and why and whether they're useless or not, but that's where my opinion lands. Thus, I want them to pick one. Energy or cooldowns, not both.

    Revenant comes with the versatility of having lower cooldowns on many/most skills than other classes though, which is something that has to be factored in as well. The energy + cooldown system can work well, but the application of cooldowns have to make sense. For example, Unrelenting Assault is absolutely a skill that should have a CD as if it had 0 CD the energy cost would have to be tremendous to counterbalance how powerful the skill would be with no CD. Phase Traversal is another good example of a skill that is buster with 0 CD (which, on release, it had 0 CD). Granted it had 10 energy cost less back then, but it was literally impossible to get away from a Revenant when PT had 0 CD. even with the increased 10 energy cost the skill would still be extremely strong, so they added a CD to balance it out. Anymore than 30 energy and you’re starting to look at Rite of the Great Dwarf or Jade Winds level costs which leave the Revenant relatively unable to do other things without waiting or swapping legends.

    What I mean by “cooldowns have to make sense” is that while they do make sense on some of the old changes, I don’t think they make sense on several of the recent changes with Call to Anguish being the most obvious one. The skill lost its strength as a fair and balanced movement skill by adding the CD out of fear of the Pull being too powerful when spammed. However, I don’t think the pull in its current iteration is strong enough to warrant the CD, so either the CD needs to get removed again or it needs additional effects or buffs to warrant the CD.

    Anyway, those are just examples, but CDs + energy certainly work and should go hand in hand, just changes need to be appropriate. Unfortunately, the balance team lately has been too heavy handed in the use of CDs out of fear of making Revenant too OP which sadly leaves the class wanting in several areas

  • LowestTruth.2635LowestTruth.2635 Member ✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    Anyway, those are just examples, but CDs + energy certainly work and should go hand in hand, just changes need to be appropriate. Unfortunately, the balance team lately has been too heavy handed in the use of CDs out of fear of making Revenant too OP which sadly leaves the class wanting in several areas

    I don't disagree with this - and the rest of your post was clear and made some good points.

    I think my opinion on it has changed to being so.... bottom-line because I think they've proven, probably because of developer attrition and losing institutional knowledge and class philosophy advocates (i.e., not incompetence), that they can't do the combination correctly. I think they could balance things better by removing one of them. Probably energy and going with CDs. I would hate it, but I would have more faith that the balance swings wouldn't be both so wild and changes so all over the board.

    Unlike other people, I do think they're listening. I just think they don't get the information they need, due to lack of dialog, and then they miss rather large problems that are caused by the changes they make. I'd rather they remove the impediments to their understanding than keep flailing, I guess.

    And I will absolutely concede that I am both cynical and pessimistic after the last round of changes, disproportionately so.

    Addendum:

    @LucianTheAngelic.7054 said:
    What I mean by “cooldowns have to make sense” is that while they do make sense on some of the old changes, I don’t think they make sense on several of the recent changes with Call to Anguish being the most obvious one. The skill lost its strength as a fair and balanced movement skill by adding the CD out of fear of the Pull being too powerful when spammed. However, I don’t think the pull in its current iteration is strong enough to warrant the CD, so either the CD needs to get removed again or it needs additional effects or buffs to warrant the CD.

    One big problem is that I do not perceive a history of reverting mistakes or admitting they made one. They double-down and try to make it work with the first decision, as if the decision was the word of God. Iteration can move backwards and forwards to find a happy medium, but they don't appear to believe that when it comes to skill changes.

  • Lonami.2987Lonami.2987 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    Being able to customize some slot skills through traits would be a good start. The lack of skill customization is one of the revenant's biggest design problems, together with having both cooldowns and resource; either one or another.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Lonami.2987 said:
    Being able to customize some slot skills through traits would be a good start. The lack of skill customization is one of the revenant's biggest design problems, together with having both cooldowns and resource; either one or another.

    Captain obvious here:
    While it is what allows rev to get 2 sets of utilities like a weapon swap while having a weapon swap wich is what distinguishes rev from other classes just think about it.

    Now not every can understand how to play every class like I can’t understand how to thief and deadeye In this game I’m simple bad with those.

    Tdlr: I think u guys don’t understand rev why would we mix legends skills??

    I would jus request for a more in depth avaliation of anet while creating legend utilities and weapon skills imo that’s the problem of the class they lack decent iteration and they leave most stuff to abandonware until some dev tries to play with it,

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    I think u guys don’t understand rev why would we mix legends skills??

    It's less about Revenant mixing legends, and more about the Variation Revenants can have per legend.
    A fourth utility skills per legends would be a start.
    Adding a neutral skill set that can be mixed into any legend could work, too.
    Also, racial skills could be mixed into the legends.

  • Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    How about putting the Revenants Barrier/Boon from Salvation into Retribution, where the SUSTAIN should be coming from. Then we can at least get a bit closer to the Guards & Warriors if it comes to sustaining. (Still less damage then them, but at least a bit closer to their sustain)

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    >
    Tdlr: I think u guys don’t understand rev why would we mix legends skills??

    I would jus request for a more in depth avaliation of anet while creating legend utilities and weapon skills imo that’s the problem of the class they lack decent iteration and they leave most stuff to abandonware until some dev tries to play with it,

    Well because customization is a big role in this game. Revenants are the only class that cant really do that. All our utility skills are picked for us. With large gaps between elite specs and expansion content, we are left with pretty much the same exact builds because we cant change up legend skills and stuck with the same number of legends. I could understand if maybe we have far more Legends to mix and match, but right now we only have 4 Legends and 2 Elite Legends to pick from each with skills already defined and chosen for you. Many of which dont synergize at all. like Ventari and Assassin.

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    Many of which dont synergize at all. like Ventari and Assassin.

    The problem here still is Revenant being designed and created to be used as Herald.
    Both Assassin and Ventari can work with Herald.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Lonami.2987 said:

    >
    Tdlr: I think u guys don’t understand rev why would we mix legends skills??

    I would jus request for a more in depth avaliation of anet while creating legend utilities and weapon skills imo that’s the problem of the class they lack decent iteration and they leave most stuff to abandonware until some dev tries to play with it,

    Well because customization is a big role in this game. Revenants are the only class that cant really do that. All our utility skills are picked for us. With large gaps between elite specs and expansion content, we are left with pretty much the same exact builds because we cant change up legend skills and stuck with the same number of legends. I could understand if maybe we have far more Legends to mix and match, but right now we only have 4 Legends and 2 Elite Legends to pick from each with skills already defined and chosen for you. Many of which dont synergize at all. like Ventari and Assassin.

    Herald sinergizes with ventari quite dencently it’s just a build that won’t carry like fb stacked and spamming and it’s a good build to pair with your support and offense.
    Rev is ok renegade was a poorly done legend, but in future anet need to release better designed legend that can be paired with one or two legends, like we could have a dual dagger and GS alternatives to use with jalis or assassin.

    Herald/ventari is good by helping your firebrands since heals targets where fb can’t, iand if u have a jalis in group that’s even better, this trio with althe help of a scrapper and scourges it’s a very good comp being in small grouop or arger one.

    Atm I’m using herald/ventari in every game mode mostly in wvw, it just not a build that most like to play cause it’s does not carry alone nor has escapes it’s a team build for 10(wich is arround my team size) it can heal players with a passive 1k healing regen per sec plus constant fury and might apliance to the same 10 players, plus several spike catching heals, just like monk in PvP/gvg in gw1 runing patient spirit while jalis can be the be seen as the prot monk.

    On swap from herald to vent it’s a 5 k team heal, ventari f2 passive every 3 sec is arround 2.5k to 3k to 10 players, way more than guardian virtues passive heal just to 5 players, while herald can trait passive f2 to affect 10 players, also heals from the staff skill 2 and 4(this one is a blast heal support skill when blasting waters it’s amazing lol heal on top of heal plus condi cleanse).

    Revs have also shield 4, it’s a another 5k heal wich is a bit clunky with shield 5 buts that’s another story.

    Ventari is also nice to fight against range combat that dome will force range classes move to other position with can be dangerous for them if u have your jalis hammer zerker revs ready while also providing 50% damage reducing that can’t be corrupted as well a nice stability to alies in front of them to avoid them being kB or kd, if no dome it’s not needed nor big heals are needed to catch spikes players swap back to 1k regen support while providing boons prot fury might speed if needed, condi cleanse whatever, there’s several ways to play herald besides hammer spammer, even most fail to understand how jalis is great and if not quite strong, most dont even know when to use the jalis elite, if they complain skill is useless should Anet just remove the elite for something else, ic players using RoTGD when team is not taking damage.. or players pushing w/o stability and w/o jalis RoTGD, the same happens while playing other legends mostly ventari, not to talk those allies that run form the tablet thinking it is a enemy skill...it really happens once in a while....

    Rev is on good spot it just different from other classes that have its own gimmick rotation to instant self Reward, I can have assassin for that but if fail to kill target assassin can’t heal like other classes like holo for example, as well it’s the reason we need a decent elite to pair with more legends.

    I this don’t invalidate that rev does not need some minor nerds and buffs, but rev skills tied to legends is quite fun and make you tune for certain game players mayyybe Anet if reading this can release 1 more core trait to all classes before start thinking in elite specs, wich atm rev is lacking to pair with shiro assassin at best.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    How about putting the Revenants Barrier/Boon from Salvation into Retribution, where the SUSTAIN should be coming from. Then we can at least get a bit closer to the Guards & Warriors if it comes to sustaining. (Still less damage then them, but at least a bit closer to their sustain)

    Jalis isnt about sustain, its about damage reducing(like cast RoTGD when part of ur team is cought inside a spellbreaker dome so the spikedamage is reduced by 50% andyoru firebrands or any other support ur team has closer can support those allies cought in bublle or stunned and spiked ), its ment to be a team work class with mass damage and damage reducing to the team he is suporting, sustain comes from knowing how Rev works and pairing its counterparts of legend combinations in a team, rev isnt to be played like a holosmith.

    Barrier in jalis also felt wrong due the stats barrier needs, and Jalis only gain barrier when swap to jalis inside the enemy group, I would remove barrier from Jalis and would add to tablet movement since we lost protection on it

    If possible would add something else on jalis swap, but we have 20% damage reducing as f2 passive already wich can reach 10 players with herald trait so I would request for anet to make Draconic Echo to affect invocation traits when both are traited since herald affect F2 and invocation improves F2 facets when herald is traited. as well.

    With that, on legend swap jalis could be a 10 player shorter version(like 2sec) of RoTGD, that would also have a secondary effect. IMO would improve sinergy on herald jalis swap.
    jalis is great on damage stats to soldiers at worst, idk why would Anet use barrier on that while barrier scales from Vitality +healing power.

    > If u guys tell me that Rev needs a QoL skill / trait revision... i totally agree with it, now mixturing the legends its wrong and rev would loose, mixturing skills to legends that would only make sense IF _Invocation _ line had its own core utilities skills that could be mixtured with any other legend, Anet could also add a core weapon, a scepter or offhand tied to the invocation like wich IMO we are lacking , if that is what most ofu talking about that could be interesting.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    How about putting the Revenants Barrier/Boon from Salvation into Retribution, where the SUSTAIN should be coming from. Then we can at least get a bit closer to the Guards & Warriors if it comes to sustaining. (Still less damage then them, but at least a bit closer to their sustain)

    Barrier in jalis also felt wrong due the stats barrier needs, and Jalis only gain barrier when swap to jalis inside the enemy group, I would remove barrier from Jalis and would add to tablet movement since we lost protection on it

    If possible would add something else on jalis swap, but we have 20% damage reducing as f2 passive already wich can reach 10 players with herald trait so I would request for anet to make Draconic Echo to affect invocation traits when both are traited since herald affect F2 and invocation improves F2 facets when herald is traited. as well.

    With that, on legend swap jalis could be a 10 player shorter version(like 2sec) of RoTGD, that would also have a secondary effect. IMO would improve sinergy on herald jalis swap.
    jalis is great on damage stats to soldiers at worst, idk why would Anet use barrier on that while barrier scales from Vitality +healing power.

    honestly that Barrier trait in salvation proves what somebody else said that Revenant is designed around Herald and not the other way around. Many flaws of of the Revenant class imo. I rather they do customization for legends.

    If they want Ventari to be some kind of Boon applier like Herald, than give me skills to do that without herald, otherwise leave traits like that in Herald.

    I like using Dwarf for WvW, but I would gladly trade Inspiring Reinforcement for some more damage reduction. Also would trade Forced Engagement for something more useful to my play style. I use Demon Legend for Resistance, and would gladly trade most of the skills for something to go along with Condition defense if I had the ability to Customize legends to fit play style.

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    How about putting the Revenants Barrier/Boon from Salvation into Retribution, where the SUSTAIN should be coming from. Then we can at least get a bit closer to the Guards & Warriors if it comes to sustaining. (Still less damage then them, but at least a bit closer to their sustain)

    > If u guys tell me that Rev needs a QoL skill / trait revision... i totally agree with it, now mixturing the legends its wrong and rev would loose, mixturing skills to legends that would only make sense IF _Invocation _ line had its own core utilities skills that could be mixtured with any other legend, Anet could also add a core weapon, a scepter or offhand tied to the invocation like wich IMO we are lacking , if that is what most ofu talking about that could be interesting.

    I dont think new weapons are the solution to this problem. New Weapons for core are needed for other reasons imo, but as for the lack of customization of the utilities is a separate issue from the lack of weapon skill choices. Invocation should have been a specialization around energy management and neutral effects but again been mostly built for Herald in mind.

    I believe Legends can keep their identity if they had more skills that can be changed out for that legend. Demon deals with Conditions, for example, why not have skills for applying conditions, while also having skills for condition defense and let player choose their play style. right now Demon has only one skill for Condition defense and rest have to come from Herald or Demonic Defiance.
    Neutral Skills would also be a great addition as well to addressing this problem. Allowing Demon to keep most of its skills while allowing me to swap out skills that dont fit my play style with something that does, like more group condition defence skills on my demon legend.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Knighthonor.4061 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:

    @Virdo.1540 said:
    How about putting the Revenants Barrier/Boon from Salvation into Retribution, where the SUSTAIN should be coming from. Then we can at least get a bit closer to the Guards & Warriors if it comes to sustaining. (Still less damage then them, but at least a bit closer to their sustain)

    Barrier in jalis also felt wrong due the stats barrier needs, and Jalis only gain barrier when swap to jalis inside the enemy group, I would remove barrier from Jalis and would add to tablet movement since we lost protection on it

    If possible would add something else on jalis swap, but we have 20% damage reducing as f2 passive already wich can reach 10 players with herald trait so I would request for anet to make Draconic Echo to affect invocation traits when both are traited since herald affect F2 and invocation improves F2 facets when herald is traited. as well.

    With that, on legend swap jalis could be a 10 player shorter version(like 2sec) of RoTGD, that would also have a secondary effect. IMO would improve sinergy on herald jalis swap.
    jalis is great on damage stats to soldiers at worst, idk why would Anet use barrier on that while barrier scales from Vitality +healing power.

    > If u guys tell me that Rev needs a QoL skill / trait revision... i totally agree with it, now mixturing the legends its wrong and rev would loose, mixturing skills to legends that would only make sense IF _Invocation _ line had its own core utilities skills that could be mixtured with any other legend, Anet could also add a core weapon, a scepter or offhand , if that is what most ofu talking about that could be interesting.

    honestly that Barrier trait in salvation proves what somebody else said that Revenant is designed around Herald and not the other way around. Many flaws of of the Revenant class imo. I rather they do customization for legends.

    If they want Ventari to be some kind of Boon applier like Herald, than give me skills to do that without herald, otherwise leave traits like that in Herald.

    I like using Dwarf for WvW, but I would gladly trade Inspiring Reinforcement for some more damage reduction. Also would trade Forced Engagement for something more useful to my play style. I use Demon Legend for Resistance, and would gladly trade most of the skills for something to go along with Condition defense if I had the ability to Customize legends to fit play style.

    Revenant being based arround Herald, that m8 be actually true, i feel the same, but that happens cause well legends... issue on Anet developer classes they lack that analysis, and they lacked to see what i stated about invocation line above and Renegade design, on future rev will feelmore complete not every legends needs to be fitted with everything as well...

    Ventari is no boon aplyer thats not the role of the spec, it is a good direct heal with minor very minor boons not every one needs to ends playing a spammbrand, herald it is the boon aplyer being in regen , prot, and damge boons, with some more tactifull gameplay, or space for that.

    Imo jalis defense part isnt bad butneeds more sinergy from herald and invocation with the lack of sinergy i can understand and agreem for damage relies to much on hammer range, the vengfull hammers can help u with some minimal sustain since it does small healing ticks and its dmaage only works on stats tuned for damage.
    Forced Engagement, imo lacks daamage and needs to be a short aoe or cleave utility spreadign several chains making your targets slow and taunted, that could fix the skills.
    For renegade jalis theres very good builds outthere as much i dont like to play them besides renegade/deamin wich is the only legend that makes me play Renegade.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Knighthonor.4061

    Theres a theme, you play legends, those legends have its own skills, if Anet wanted for us to mix legends they would not make the class arround legends, but with the same use watchever u want from core skills like any other class works

    For that Anet needs to end the legend "class system" wich is not what class is about. :\ while this is what makes class fun, if i wanted somethign strong i could mix and get carried i would be playing holo.
    Still ill enforce with the core utilities on invocation line that are lacking and could reach a hybrid system,having the possibility of use invication utilities by having or not having its line traited.

    Some of u talk abotu mixtureing legends utilities, that is being ending with a build with less sinergy than anythign else in the game...

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Theres a theme, you play legends, those legends have its own skills, if Anet wanted for us to mix legends they would not make the class around legends, but with the same use watchever u want from core skills like any other class works

    There is a theme: we channel the power of the mists and the memories of certain individuals ingrained into the mists, not actually the specific legendary characters themselves.
    There is nothing that should prevent Revenants to channel general power, which NOT tied to specific figures.
    Arenanet probably just didn't want to go this road because the profession was built purely as fan service and throw backs to GW1.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    Theres a theme, you play legends, those legends have its own skills, if Anet wanted for us to mix legends they would not make the class around legends, but with the same use watchever u want from core skills like any other class works

    There is a theme: we channel the power of the mists and the memories of certain individuals ingrained into the mists, not actually the specific legendary characters themselves.

    "we channel the power of the mists and the memories of certain individuals ingrained into the mists"

    Those memories are the legends translating that for u :)

    Glint didnt know shiro skills, and jalis didnt do dragon skills :)

    U channel 1 memory at a time, not both at same time.

    There is nothing that should prevent Revenants to channel general power, which NOT tied to specific figures.
    Arenanet probably just didn't want to go this road because the profession was built purely as fan service and throw backs to GW1.

    Thats where rev lacks and that's is where i think Anet should touch since some of u see this as a problem , dontforget that Rev with legends utilites mixtured is a mess of a useless class so that is just, i dont have any other way to say it besides being trully and blunt... it just stupid.

    If players feel and want to mixture skills cause rev ended to much tied to legends, Invication line needs to be tweaked to its own core pack of utilities that can be used on every elite or legend, maybe Anet could use that to fix another rev issue ich is lack of core weapon... i can imagine Mist charges trait tied to it.

    Lets say imagine that Invocation line gets rebranded to Mist Powers, and has like 6 new utilities, there utilites can be ussed w/o having its trait line traited.
    Imo 3 new utilites that would change deppending legend being used like trident does would be really nice, Mist power could ocupy even a legend slotif needed to improve normal effect of the trait line when traited.
    Can we play with that what kind of skills it would work?

  • Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    I would love more choice and customization, it would be so cool to talor your rev to be something more akin to one of the specific legends and have multiple skills. (Example would be able to take battle-scars from shiro over jade daggers.)

  • Fueki.4753Fueki.4753 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    U channel 1 memory at a time, not both at same time.

    My idea never was to mix different legends together.
    My idea was always to mix legends (one at a time) with general "invoke mist energy" skills and racials.

    Lets say imagine that Invocation line gets rebranded to Mist Powers,

    Why rename it? 'Invoking' the mist powers works with the theme.

    Mist power could ocupy even a legend slot

    That would remove the entire point of general skills being independent to legends.

  • Aeolus.3615Aeolus.3615 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019
    Prefer it as is

    @Fueki.4753 said:

    @Aeolus.3615 said:
    U channel 1 memory at a time, not both at same time.

    My idea never was to mix different legends together.

    Lets say imagine that Invocation line gets rebranded to Mist Powers,

    Why rename it? 'Invoking' the mist powers works with the theme.

    Mist power could ocupy even a legend slot

    That would remove the entire point of general skills being independent to legends.

    beign also based on what players wanted above, i dont tend to see and resolve problems at a time, wich m8 create another problems for the solution of other issues :) so i like to talk about overall changes that fix many issues.

    My idea was always to mix legends (one at a time) with general "invoke mist energy" skills and racials.

    That's what i was talkign about then as well, wich would be the max of skill mixing rev should get.

  • Engal.6359Engal.6359 Member ✭✭✭
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    Make it so you can replace any skill. If you dont want a heal skill, you can take more dmg/utility. But give it some kind of trade off, rev is fine and doesn't need a buff.

  • InsaneQR.7412InsaneQR.7412 Member ✭✭✭✭
    Would prefer option to Customize the skills

    I want customisation.
    But with glyphs and signets instead of mixing legend skills.

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