Why why why!? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Why why why!?

Why cant we get more races!?? People love create characters anet, also im so done with those outfits, why not more cultural armors or ingame new armor skins as weapons (also would be nice change dyes on weapons)!? A water mount why not!? I've always been curious to know what was behind those giant walls in Caledon Forest with the tengu ^^ also the mystified water dragon, Largos we only had few sights of them (dreaming of a future water dragon related maps with some sort of largos atlantis)!!!! Ah! And what about more hairstyles and faces!?

Comments

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭

    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

  • We get new races all the time! Just about every festival release, it comes packed with a beetle race and its own set of achievements! (Yeees, I know what you meant, but that wont happen ever.)

    Armor takes time to create and fit all together without issue. That's why there are so many outfits. I feel that armor has more value as far as your mix and match game goes though. As for cultural, I've felt that the races have been united for long enough such that all races could craft something suitable for their race with a look based off a different one.

    As for dying weapons (and backpacks), it's not in the code and wont be. Too many things in the game at this point to go back and provide separate color channels for. Although I've always felt that every armor piece should always have four channels to dye no matter how miniscule it might be.

    Also, you don't need a new playable race for the Dominion of Winds maps, just a plot reason for those maps to be opened up. Same for Largos. I'm sure they'll be expanded upon eventually.

    And, yes, I'm always up for more faces and custom character options.

  • Short and sweet: I feel your pain and sympathize greatly with the sentiment.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Regh.8649Regh.8649 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 13, 2019

    New Races: Hardly because of how the story was developed. Creating a new narrative for a new race is probably not an option atm. New races maybe in a future Guild Wars title.

    Outfits/Armor skins: Feel ya, I don't like Outfits either, more armor and weapon skins is always good.

    Dyeable Weapon and Backbacks: Anet already told us why they choose to make weapons not dyeable can´t remenber what it was though, but won't happen. Backpacks I'm not sure but I would also love it.

    Water Mount: yeah "why not" mostly, but I'm not in a hurry tbh

    Hairstyles/faces: Yes please!

    As for the Dominion of the Winds, Largos "Atlantis" and Bubbles we'll just have to wait and see what's coming and let the story unfold.

    Formula for success: Rise early, work hard, strike oil.

  • lare.5129lare.5129 Member ✭✭✭

    I happy to have that race what I have. No any "why not have race" from me.

  • @Dayra.7405 said:
    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

    Personally, I think it's worth the effort for all the different reasons additional player races bring to MMO environments.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

    Personally, I think it's worth the effort for all the different reasons additional player races bring to MMO environments.

    Is money one of those reasons? Enough to justify the cost of redeveloping nearly everything?

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

    Personally, I think it's worth the effort for all the different reasons additional player races bring to MMO environments.

    Is money one of those reasons? Enough to justify the cost of redeveloping nearly everything?

    I mean, I don't think the game is hurting for money, though at worst it could be argued that in a vacuum more profit is fundamentally a good thing. But no, that's not what I mean by that. Sure, new players spending money to get the B2P version of GW and their subsequent expansions are necessarily a point in that line, but that's not really anything new. Plus, the hyperbole of "nearly everything" is still bound in the constraint of a subsection of the game. I get your point though; it is a massive resource suck to do something like that, but I simply don't see how it's not possible.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

    Personally, I think it's worth the effort for all the different reasons additional player races bring to MMO environments.

    Is money one of those reasons? Enough to justify the cost of redeveloping nearly everything?

    I mean, I don't think the game is hurting for money, though at worst it could be argued that in a vacuum more profit is fundamentally a good thing. But no, that's not what I mean by that. Sure, new players spending money to get the B2P version of GW and their subsequent expansions are necessarily a point in that line, but that's not really anything new. Plus, the hyperbole of "nearly everything" is still bound in the constraint of a subsection of the game. I get your point though; it is a massive resource suck to do something like that, but I simply don't see how it's not possible.

    I'm not saying it isnt possible though. It was just a direct response to the belief that it's worth the effort. GW2 is too huge now. At most, it seems like a good way for a developer to go out of business.

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    @Dayra.7405 said:
    Because every skin in the game would need an extension for this new race.

    Personally, I think it's worth the effort for all the different reasons additional player races bring to MMO environments.

    Is money one of those reasons? Enough to justify the cost of redeveloping nearly everything?

    I mean, I don't think the game is hurting for money, though at worst it could be argued that in a vacuum more profit is fundamentally a good thing. But no, that's not what I mean by that. Sure, new players spending money to get the B2P version of GW and their subsequent expansions are necessarily a point in that line, but that's not really anything new. Plus, the hyperbole of "nearly everything" is still bound in the constraint of a subsection of the game. I get your point though; it is a massive resource suck to do something like that, but I simply don't see how it's not possible.

    I'm not saying it isnt possible though. It was just a direct response to the belief that it's worth the effort. GW2 is too huge now. At most, it seems like a good way for a developer to go out of business.

    There are so many unknowns involved with Anet you may as well be right simply off the premise that it's better to be safe than sorry. Not committing to another player race is safe, for sure, but I would argue that the risk involved in expanding it to 6 races could pay off. Also, since we know we're going into Icebrood as Saga 1/Season 5, that will probably take us till about September of 2020 if previous seasons are any indication. It just gives them more time to accomplish features for an Expansion, and if anything, I'd like to see an additional player race as a part of it. Being honest, I'm not clear on how "being too huge" is working against the concept of an additional player race.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:
    There are so many unknowns involved with Anet you may as well be right simply off the premise that it's better to be safe than sorry. Not committing to another player race is safe, for sure, but I would argue that the risk involved in expanding it to 6 races could pay off. Also, since we know we're going into Icebrood as Saga 1/Season 5, that will probably take us till about September of 2020 if previous seasons are any indication. It just gives them more time to accomplish features for an Expansion, and if anything, I'd like to see an additional player race as a part of it. Being honest, I'm not clear on how "being too huge" is working against the concept of an additional player race.

    Now, it begs the question of if it's something you want to be clear on or not. I'm sure you've heard the explanations time and time again. There's many threads on the topic in fact! But I'm gathering a hint of optimism here. Nonetheless, it's definitely a risk. A.net has the data; I don't, but the general feeling of the game is that most people want more gameplay, or more content that leads to more gameplay. What would a new race in and of itself add that the present playerbase would be willing to pay for? Or, would a new race in and of itself be an attractive enough feature to bring in new customers to the game to profit from that kind of undertaking?

  • FrigginPaco.4178FrigginPaco.4178 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    The choice of playable race is definitely something that is extremely personal to each individual player, right? Of course I would like to see more game content before anything else, but I feel like this could be something that is worked on in the background at the same time as other projects. Plus, until the very last moments of season 2 we didnt even know to expect an expansion at all, so that was a great surprise - speaking to keeping something in the works until its release.

    Ask for what a new player race offers... it is a more significant choice than people give credit. For the most part, each race gives a unique experience on how they interact with the world. The more non-human looking races like the Charr and the Asura in particular have more distinct and subtle ways that they to even the most basic things. The charr just run on all fours for example and it gives a player a totally different feeling compared to the other races who are bipedal. Every jump from an Asura is a small "Mission Impossible Jump" with their flailing arms and it's so fun to watch that! Even the Norn, who I personally feel where robbed of their unique culture by having their beastly Transformations locked behind Elite skills and not a standard toggle - even they feel like they move in a more ponderous manner because of their size. Play a race is more than just Aesthetics even though that's a large part of it, it is a clear design choice made by the player to completely inform many aspects of how they view their experience.

    Now, the above answers what a new player race would add by itself, but I want to be clear when I say that it must necessarily be one item of a larger series of features that would be released with any sort of expansion product. And I would be the first person to say that if they happened to add one in any potential incoming expansion, I wouldn't use that as a precedent to make sure that the following expansion after that one would also have a new player race.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Dayra.7405Dayra.7405 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 14, 2019

    It could be a pure Gem-Shop Race, you buy it for gems and you must buy all armor and weapon and mount and glider skins for Gems.
    Without any such skins, all armor/weapon/... you are wearing all looks the same.

  • I'll agree that it can be extremely personal. I'm neither quite preferenced towards it nor against it, as on one hand, having any kind of increase on lore towards something, I'll always be fond of, but on the other, from a gameplay perspective, races mean nothing to me as long as they're going to be clones in the areas that matter (which one could argue may be pure subjectivity however). If I were to add my biases into the equation, I'd like new races, but not in GW2. My dream MMORPG would have races be so distinctly different that playing between them would be like playing a completely different game--a Terran/ Zerg/ Protoss kind of dynamic! Subtle animation and skin differences here and there are whatever to me. I've come to the conclusion that I'm incapable get immersed as I'm too consciously aware that I'm sitting on my butt moving a mouse and pressing keys while looking at a monitor. But that's getting sidetracked.

    All I've been looking at so far is what I've witnessed of the game to date. Not going to go into super detail since other threads have already done that, but just off the top of my head versus what's mentioned here:

    When HoT was released, it came with two additional armors. Path of Fire bumped that up to five, so there's definitely potential! Bad news is the layoffs--who knows how much of the original crew is still around. Outfits have popped up, too, but those are a little harder to assess, and were introduced primarily with the truth of how time-consuming adding a new armor has been. That being said, if we're looking for a complete feel of a new race, and one which isn't released partially complete (which is a thing that'd cause upsets), we're talking about seventy-four armors and ninety outfits to redesign! As well as whatever NPCs might be wearing, "Jake From State Farm".

    Then, new weapon and back item modeling and animation, character animation, a new DANCE (Where's mah How to Dance Volume # 2, dang it!), voices for common stuff along with every NPC in the game in every story except for what can no longer be accessed... Well, I said I wouldn't go into detail, so I must stop. :)

    If these things were being worked on in the background, they'd have definitely been datamined by now.

    Sure, there are plenty of people who would love to have a new race simply for immersion purposes or roleplaying or what not, but I feel like the... generally unpleasible... playerbase at large would raise torches and pitchforks about it in the end. And they'd be right about it, too; they're holding the money. "You've spent all this time adding something with feathers and pointless racial skills instead of putting more resources to PvP, WvW, raids, fractals, XYZ!? I QUIT!!! This game is DEAD! The developers are clearly out of touch! I'm not telling anyone to waste their time on this QUAGGAN game!!" And so on and so forth.

    This is why I feel that it's too late in the game for this kind of decision.

  • @Dayra.7405 said:
    It could be a pure Gem-Shop Race, you buy it for gems and you must buy all armor and weapon and mount and glider skins for Gems.
    Without any such skins, all armor/weapon/... you are wearing all looks the same.

    o.O And if that... no. WHEN that backfires, how are you left to pay your employees who created all that content?

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    I'll agree that it can be extremely personal. I'm neither quite preferenced towards it nor against it, as on one hand, having any kind of increase on lore towards something, I'll always be fond of, but on the other, from a gameplay perspective, races mean nothing to me as long as they're going to be clones in the areas that matter (which one could argue may be pure subjectivity however). If I were to add my biases into the equation, I'd like new races, but not in GW2. My dream MMORPG would have races be so distinctly different that playing between them would be like playing a completely different game--a Terran/ Zerg/ Protoss kind of dynamic! Subtle animation and skin differences here and there are whatever to me. I've come to the conclusion that I'm incapable get immersed as I'm too consciously aware that I'm sitting on my butt moving a mouse and pressing keys while looking at a monitor. But that's getting sidetracked.

    All I've been looking at so far is what I've witnessed of the game to date. Not going to go into super detail since other threads have already done that, but just off the top of my head versus what's mentioned here:

    When HoT was released, it came with two additional armors. Path of Fire bumped that up to five, so there's definitely potential! Bad news is the layoffs--who knows how much of the original crew is still around. Outfits have popped up, too, but those are a little harder to assess, and were introduced primarily with the truth of how time-consuming adding a new armor has been. That being said, if we're looking for a complete feel of a new race, and one which isn't released partially complete (which is a thing that'd cause upsets), we're talking about seventy-four armors and ninety outfits to redesign! As well as whatever NPCs might be wearing, "Jake From State Farm".

    Then, new weapon and back item modeling and animation, character animation, a new DANCE (Where's mah How to Dance Volume # 2, dang it!), voices for common stuff along with every NPC in the game in every story except for what can no longer be accessed... Well, I said I wouldn't go into detail, so I must stop. :)

    If these things were being worked on in the background, they'd have definitely been datamined by now.

    Sure, there are plenty of people who would love to have a new race simply for immersion purposes or roleplaying or what not, but I feel like the... generally unpleasible... playerbase at large would raise torches and pitchforks about it in the end. And they'd be right about it, too; they're holding the money. "You've spent all this time adding something with feathers and pointless racial skills instead of putting more resources to PvP, WvW, raids, fractals, XYZ!? I QUIT!!! This game is DEAD! The developers are clearly out of touch! I'm not telling anyone to waste their time on this QUAGGAN game!!" And so on and so forth.

    This is why I feel that it's too late in the game for this kind of decision.

    For the most part I agree with the majority of what you've put down. I'll even go so far as to say that the Norn and the Sylvari by themselves don't really add much to the game in terms of races since they're re-skins with different postures. Sylvari for example need more plant-based armor because all they have is their cultural armor and the Twilight Arbor sets. Norn I point back to how if they had their transformations as a cosmetic toggle that would be neato.

    And yes I would like to see the tengu as a player race as you alluded to. A big problem with Guild Wars 2 in my opinion was its philosophy on how the player race didn't really impact anything. I kind of would have liked for them to have done it the opposite way even if it was just the fact that their skills would have been unique.

    Having said that, it's almost as if every player race is just a reskin since they don't offer anything else to the table besides they're level 1 to 30 content for the vanilla story which rarely is access by most people anymore. Let's just consider that we went from one player race in Guild Wars 1, to 5 player races in Guild Wars 2 and call ourselves happy xD

    A final note, I do sympathize with your observation that somehow the playerbase seems fundamentally unhappy all the time, but a part of me also sympathizes with them. Especially since I play every game mode I can tell you that some of them don't see quite the same attention as the others but that's really getting into a different topic. I see both sides on that is all I'm trying to say.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • Yep! GW2 seemed to be born on providing a remedy for the balancing struggles that GW1 produced. I'd have loved it if the races were significantly different as well, with them "balanced in asymmetry" instead of The Clone Wars. It'd be a development nightmare, handling different racial playstyles on top of different classes, races, and traits, AND elite specs, but I'm all for that kind of delicious variety. ♥

    But only if it could be pulled off. I was told GW1 was a balancing nightmare as well, what with over a thousand skills and dual professions. But they did it. And it was worth every second of its experience to the point every other MMO felt shallow in what you could come up with.

    Good times.

    And, admittedly with a touch of real-talk, I'd have never picked up this game if it wasn't called "Guild Wars 2", but I'm too deep to turn away despite the package being nothing like its prequel. I must continue. For SCIENCE (and fashion--mainly fashion)!

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    Yep! GW2 seemed to be born on providing a remedy for the balancing struggles that GW1 produced. I'd have loved it if the races were significantly different as well, with them "balanced in asymmetry" instead of The Clone Wars. It'd be a development nightmare, handling different racial playstyles on top of different classes, races, and traits, AND elite specs, but I'm all for that kind of delicious variety. ♥

    But only if it could be pulled off. I was told GW1 was a balancing nightmare as well, what with over a thousand skills and dual professions. But they did it. And it was worth every second of its experience to the point every other MMO felt shallow in what you could come up with.

    Good times.

    And, admittedly with a touch of real-talk, I'd have never picked up this game if it wasn't called "Guild Wars 2", but I'm too deep to turn away despite the package being nothing like its prequel. I must continue. For SCIENCE (and fashion--mainly fashion)!

    I too am in it for the variety!

    Also, YES, it was definitely a shock to the system even during betas as I remembered trying to dodge in GW1 after they were over and feeling... like... broken xD And even with GW1's balance issues they never interfered as much as I feel GW2's balancing issues around skills and profession mechanics do. Both games are equally "less" and "more" than the other, with GW1 hedging out in party comp builds and solo builds for specific use. Although, GW2 has improved with every expansion in that regard.

    As for the real talk, I somewhat chafe at the idea that GW2 is all about fashion in endgame in a way that is broadly repeated by the community (As a joke and not as a joke). I'm in GW for all of its practical applications, fashion included, but I want dope encounters, interesting mechanics, continuation of the story, discovery of old an new locations, competitive and non-competitive formats that challenge and/or excite, etc. GW2 has the potential to provide the whole-hog, but sometimes it feels like it's hampered by something vague that doesn't allow more to be done.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @Dayra.7405 said:
    It could be a pure Gem-Shop Race, you buy it for gems and you must buy all armor and weapon and mount and glider skins for Gems.
    Without any such skins, all armor/weapon/... you are wearing all looks the same.

    Unfortunately I don't think that idea would fly with the general community. Arena Net does a lot to give you the "basic" version of something that can do everything just fine (lets use mounts as an example here) and then offer the option of the reskins on the gemstore. You could argue that making any character at all with any race is just a template for the vehicle of interacting in the game and that a gemstore race is just that same "reskin" I was taking about, but it's such a desired feature from many players that I'm certain it would be accompanied by resentment.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @FrigginPaco.4178 said:

    I too am in it for the variety!

    Also, YES, it was definitely a shock to the system even during betas as I remembered trying to dodge in GW1 after they were over and feeling... like... broken xD And even with GW1's balance issues they never interfered as much as I feel GW2's balancing issues around skills and profession mechanics do. Both games are equally "less" and "more" than the other, with GW1 hedging out in party comp builds and solo builds for specific use. Although, GW2 has improved with every expansion in that regard.

    As for the real talk, I somewhat chafe at the idea that GW2 is all about fashion in endgame in a way that is broadly repeated by the community (As a joke and not as a joke). I'm in GW for all of its practical applications, fashion included, but I want dope encounters, interesting mechanics, continuation of the story, discovery of old an new locations, competitive and non-competitive formats that challenge and/or excite, etc. GW2 has the potential to provide the whole-hog, but sometimes it feels like it's hampered by something vague that doesn't allow more to be done.

    Oh, I was just being facetious in slightly hinting towards my personal obsession with fashion. I know people jokingly refer to the endgame as Fashion Wars, but I keep trying to tell people that I've already won the war and that they're just perpetuating for no reason!

    Jokes aside (or am I joking!?), I was always fond of making up all kinds of builds in GW1. It was a passion. Everything worked; nothing was restricted. I've always felt GW2 needed that. Instead of having encounters where you can't blind, weaken, CC, cripple, immobilize, or slow many of the tougher enemies (making professions that specialize in those things at a big disadvantage support-wise, and with the much smaller availability of skills in this game to boot), I've felt that ALL of those things should be allowed, and alternatively, to keep them from being too powerful, adjust the encounters themselves with things like better AI, their own cleanses and heals, MORE than just one typically static enemy to fight at a time, etc. Heck, it'd probably open up all kinds of possibilities.

    Was wondering just yesterday what the end of a Fractal would look like if the party had to go against... five Avatar of Balthazar HP mobs at once, all of which being Elite tier without a break bar or "unshakable" bar. Suddenly, blind and weakness would be your best friend. CC chaining, too. Otherwise they'd probably cleave the party no matter what you'd try to do.

    Even with the current model, to add some kind of value to all support and debuff options in PvE, I thought of having those be effective against bosses while their break bars are orange and recharging, and when they're blue, work against the breakbar as normal. That way, they're of use 100% of the time of a fight. Buuut, I'm ranting. I'll stop now.

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    It was a passion. Everything worked; nothing was restricted. I've always felt GW2 needed that. Instead of having encounters where you can't blind, weaken, CC, cripple, immobilize, or slow many of the tougher enemies (making professions that specialize in those things at a big disadvantage support-wise, and with the much smaller availability of skills in this game to boot), I've felt that ALL of those things should be allowed, and alternatively, to keep them from being too powerful, adjust the encounters themselves with things like better AI, their own cleanses and heals, MORE than just one typically static enemy to fight at a time, etc. Heck, it'd probably open up all kinds of possibilities.

    Oh yes indeed, without question that's a big thing I've been hoping they'd address: how impactful the debuffs are/aren't. I mean, players can be chain-cc'd till the crows come calling and if you're out of stunbreaks… well see you at respawn Q-Q.

    Even with the current model, to add some kind of value to all support and debuff options in PvE, I thought of having those be effective against bosses while their break bars are orange and recharging, and when they're blue, work against the breakbar as normal.

    I do a lot of this type of thinking concerning GW2 as well as when I build my encounters for D&D so I 100% know the feeling. Plus, going back to the OP, Racial skills that are both desirable as a motivation at character select AND in a group setting can really fit that "piecing the party together" feeling that I believe GW2 generally does not encourage nor discourage to any great length.

    Potential requires action in order to be realized.

  • @KidRoleplay.3615 said:

    I'll agree that it can be extremely personal. I'm neither quite preferenced towards it nor against it, as on one hand, having any kind of increase on lore towards something, I'll always be fond of, but on the other, from a gameplay perspective, races mean nothing to me as long as they're going to be clones in the areas that matter (which one could argue may be pure subjectivity however). If I were to add my biases into the equation, I'd like new races, but not in GW2. My dream MMORPG would have races be so distinctly different that playing between them would be like playing a completely different game--a Terran/ Zerg/ Protoss kind of dynamic! Subtle animation and skin differences here and there are whatever to me. I've come to the conclusion that I'm incapable get immersed as I'm too consciously aware that I'm sitting on my butt moving a mouse and pressing keys while looking at a monitor. But that's getting sidetracked.

    All I've been looking at so far is what I've witnessed of the game to date. Not going to go into super detail since other threads have already done that, but just off the top of my head versus what's mentioned here:

    When HoT was released, it came with two additional armors. Path of Fire bumped that up to five, so there's definitely potential! Bad news is the layoffs--who knows how much of the original crew is still around. Outfits have popped up, too, but those are a little harder to assess, and were introduced primarily with the truth of how time-consuming adding a new armor has been. That being said, if we're looking for a complete feel of a new race, and one which isn't released partially complete (which is a thing that'd cause upsets), we're talking about seventy-four armors and ninety outfits to redesign! As well as whatever NPCs might be wearing, "Jake From State Farm".

    Then, new weapon and back item modeling and animation, character animation, a new DANCE (Where's mah How to Dance Volume # 2, dang it!), voices for common stuff along with every NPC in the game in every story except for what can no longer be accessed... Well, I said I wouldn't go into detail, so I must stop. :)

    If these things were being worked on in the background, they'd have definitely been datamined by now.

    Sure, there are plenty of people who would love to have a new race simply for immersion purposes or roleplaying or what not, but I feel like the... generally unpleasible... playerbase at large would raise torches and pitchforks about it in the end. And they'd be right about it, too; they're holding the money. "You've spent all this time adding something with feathers and pointless racial skills instead of putting more resources to PvP, WvW, raids, fractals, XYZ!? I QUIT!!! This game is DEAD! The developers are clearly out of touch! I'm not telling anyone to waste their time on this QUAGGAN game!!" And so on and so forth.

    This is why I feel that it's too late in the game for this kind of decision.

    1. They haven't even started working on WvW according to the newest article.
    2. Swiss ain't done either and is not close enough to even be beta'd yet.
    3. They also said there are no elite specs planned, or being developed as of now
    4. Same with expansions
    5. Living world is all we are going to get.

    To summerize they are already doing what you said and not putting money into stuff people want, they aren't doing any of what we have asked for and pleaded for them to do and it almost feels like they WANT this game to die. It baffles my freak'n mind that they had the gull to say they were working on stuff, and now Mike Z comes out and is like "Swiss is close to being beta ready! We can now start considering, starting the process of working on wvw...."

    Hope dashed, expectations in the gutter. I expect maybe at best this saga will be playable and not bug ridden, but even that might be too much to expect anymore. I just can't so all the excuses for new races can be thrown at ALL of the content outside of raids, fractals and open world pve. (Which they've stated more is on the way!)

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