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Staff needs some love


Egrimm Van Horstmann.7921

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Caster Staff autoattacks are bad for most classes due to how slow they are . Guardian, Necro, Mesmer, and Ele all have this problem. This is an example of the weird discrepancies in the way ranged weapons are designed. Some are fairly powerful while others are really weak due entirely to a badly tuned autoattack. Mesmer scepter was the worst example of this until they finally added conditions to it a couple of years ago. Ranger's longbow used to be really bad as well.

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@Einlanzer.1627 said:Caster Staff autoattacks are bad for most classes due to how slow they are . Guardian, Necro, Mesmer, and Ele all have this problem. This is an example of the weird discrepancies in the way ranged weapons are designed. Some are fairly powerful while others are really weak due entirely to a badly tuned autoattack. Mesmer scepter was the worst example of this until they finally added conditions to it a couple of years ago. Ranger's longbow used to be really bad as well.

Yeah, but Staff has 4/5 underwhelming skills. I would go as far as to say Putrid Mark is the only skill on the entire weapon that's fine.

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Im on the "full rework" train on this one. Marks are a rather crappy design, as these are AOE instant casts with an instant effect they have to limit the power quite a bit. Also its a shame that all of them are tied to one weapon. A healthy mix like guards have with their symbols would offer a lot more possibilities trait wise.

And the AA is the worst AA in the entire game hands down.

An idea to fix them is to activate them manually, then lower its base radius and make the radius and the effects both increase over a short duration (3/4/5 seconds or so). The trigger effect should be more potent and maybe leave an AOE, well like effect with a similar theme. Like Mark of blood could splash for direct heal and direct damage, and leave a "well" that pulses bleed and regeneration. The "well" effect would only occur if the mark charges for the full duration. The trigger effects will be applied even if no enemies are in range.

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I mentioned this in another thread, but I think the AA should be reworked to bounce to hit 2+ additional targets (maybe even bounce to allies to give a minor boon, too, but the first bounce has to be off of your selected target), move/cast slightly faster (with a projectile that looks like a sickle to match the scythe theme), and apply conditions (something like Torment on the first target, and then bleed on the secondary targets... reducing duration with each bounce).

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Staff is garbage DPS, but has several big factors going for it:

  • It is Necro's only 1200 range option
  • 2-5 are targetable AOE. This is amazing for tagging in blobs, so in WvW zergs, you don't need great DPS to get kills in.
  • Staff 4 can potentially transfer all Condis on yourself to others. This is big in PvP and WvW
  • Staff 5 is an AOE CC, which is good for PVP point control
  • Staff auto is Necro's biggest LF source if you can hit multiple targets. This is important for refilling LF bar after spins in WvW zergs. This also has potential of giving use to staff in PvE for LF hungry Scourges, but don't really think so outside of trash-heavy events.

I hate how terrible the DPS of staff is. Every time I pull it out in WvW, I know it's purely for ranged safety, selfish cleanses, and tagging rather than solid contribution to the bomb. It can EASILY get major DPS buffs without becoming overpowered... it just simply has strong enough utility to always have a purpose in WvW and PvP. Though won't feel as bad with Scourge - the LF potential of Staff means it supports my Shade pressure, making it feel less selfish for hitting like a wet noodle.

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@Methuselah.4376 said:If Marks pulse, even just twice, it would already be a big improvement. AA should be a non-projectile attack like the rest of the necro range weapons.

Obligatory "make marks pulse" comment on a staff rework thread lol...

They should consolidate the 4 marks into one good mark and then add 3 actual skills to staff so it isn't magic-marker skill- level of play.

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Full rework.

Look at axe, look at dagger and at greatsword. These weapons are fun. Their skillsets are synergetic and promote a weapon specific plastyle. It's not just 5 skills slabbed together, done. They interact with eachother, good usage of one opens up the path for others to reap much greater benefits and you feel good choices are greatly rewarded.

Also their aa are meaningful. GS aa is one of the nastiest dodge baits out there. It's not funny how much fear the last hit in chain instills in enemies.Axe's auto serves the purpose of building up vulnerability for massively more powerful Ghastly Claws. Also being a non-projectile is an amazing harrasment tool for guardians mesmers and other projectile hate reliant professions.Dagger auto may be the oldest and most plain of the 3, but it's speed does get a passing mark on the fun factor, considering almost everything on necro is slow as molassess.

Staff aa? Slow. Weak. Reflectable. No plays with it, at all. 0 synergy with rest of the weapon skills.

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@Vitali.5039 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:If Marks pulse, even just twice, it would already be a big improvement. AA should be a non-projectile attack like the rest of the necro range weapons.

I don't think it could be a good idea as a rework..

OK, I once proposed these changes on the old forums:

  1. Necrotic Grasp – faster casting and projectile travel speed. 50% chance blast finisher.
  2. Mark of Blood – 4 stacks of bleed for 10s, regen for 10s (5s CD)
  3. Chilblains – 5 stacks of poison for 8 s and chill for 6 seconds (10s CD)
  4. Putrid Mark – Blast Finisher. Transfer all your conditions into the mark (their timers will be suspended). All “stored” conditions will be transferred to each target that triggers the mark. (15s CD)
  5. Reaper’s Mark – Fear for 2 seconds. (20s CD)Souls Marks will change as following: Marks are unblockable, regenerate lifeforce per target struck and gain an additional effect.-Mark of Blood: Steal health from each target hit-Chilblains: targets are crippled for 10s-Putrid Mark: corrupt 2 boons-Reaper’s Mark: this mark also inflicts 5 stacks of Torment for 7 seconds
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You gotta remember, Anet isn't going to want to put massive amounts of resources into something they don't think is worthwhile. Completely revamping staff would isn't likely be a worthwhile venture in their eyes, given how much effort it would take and how, quite frankly, it isn't really needed.General buffs like 100% projectile or adding a boon corrupt to chillblains are a better way to go.

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@Lahmia.2193 said:You gotta remember, Anet isn't going to want to put massive amounts of resources into something they don't think is worthwhile. Completely revamping staff would isn't likely be a worthwhile venture in their eyes, given how much effort it would take and how, quite frankly, it isn't really needed.General buffs like 100% projectile or adding a boon corrupt to chillblains are a better way to go.

Then again, you dont know what they think is worthwile. We got a complete Plague rework and a complete Lich Form rework altough both of them could be considered "not really needed" as well. Lich Form had its niche use in PvP and WvW (pre nerf also in PvE) and Plague had its use in WvW and PvP.

They would need quite a lot of "small" changes like projectile finisher to make the weapon fit a distinct role (other than WvW tagging) with a more interesting kit.

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@Methuselah.4376 said:

@Vitali.5039 said:

@Methuselah.4376 said:If Marks pulse, even just twice, it would already be a big improvement. AA should be a non-projectile attack like the rest of the necro range weapons.

I don't think it could be a good idea as a rework..

OK, I once proposed these changes on the old forums:
  1. Necrotic Grasp – faster casting and projectile travel speed. 50% chance blast finisher.
  2. Mark of Blood – 4 stacks of bleed for 10s, regen for 10s (5s CD)
  3. Chilblains – 5 stacks of poison for 8 s and chill for 6 seconds (10s CD)
  4. Putrid Mark – Blast Finisher. Transfer all your conditions into the mark (their timers will be suspended). All “stored” conditions will be transferred to each target that triggers the mark. (15s CD)
  5. Reaper’s Mark – Fear for 2 seconds. (20s CD)Souls Marks will change as following: Marks are unblockable, regenerate lifeforce per target struck and gain an additional effect.-Mark of Blood: Steal health from each target hit-Chilblains: targets are crippled for 10s-Putrid Mark: corrupt 2 boons-Reaper’s Mark: this mark also inflicts 5 stacks of Torment for 7 seconds

This would make staff strong but i dont think it would fix the main problem. The main problem is the boring skills, all instant casts with an instant effect without any overtime AOE or flavour whatsoever.

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