Dredge location - Molensk — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Dredge location - Molensk

(This post is not meant to spread any kind of hate or fights. I believe this wasn't intentional, this is a big game, I'd just like to discuss this issue:)

Hi,
I noticed dredge locations names are inspired by soviet history and with 99% places, I have no problem with, some of them are kind of funny, I can take a joke. However, there is one place , and I believe you meant nothing bad, that I think is a bit too much.
The Molensk location in Wayfarer foothills resembles heavily the name of the city and federal subject of Smolensk, in Russia.
For Eastern Europians, like myself, this place has long and tragic history that's still well alive.
The events I'll describe are far more complex, but I'll shorten them:

In 1940 in Katyn (which falls unders Smolenks federal subject) a series of mass executions of Polish military officers and intelligentsia took place, carried out by the Soviet Union. It is something that polish people never forgot and they remember it every year for memorial of this event.

This massacre was kept top secret untill 1943, when the kitten government discovered mass graves in Katyn forest. The USSR claimed the kitten had done this in 1941 and it continued to deny responsibility for the massacres until 1990, when it officially acknowledged and condemned the perpetration of the killings, as well as the subsequent cover-up by the Soviet government. As you can see, this greatly damaged the polish-russian relationship.

On 10 April 2010 we saw 70th memorial of Katyn massacre. On the day of the memorial, an airplane with many ministers, the president of Poland, his wife, the ex-president of Poland and many more... in total 96 people, were on their way to Smolensk to take part in memorial ceremonies. The plane crashed close to Smolensk North Airport, killing all 96 people on board. This event is known as the Smolensk air disaster. Even though Russia offered their help with investigating the disaster, there are still many strong theories in Poland saying Russia somehow played a role in the air disaster. It's even more painful considering these theories are supported by some polish political parties today.

In the light of all this, could it be possible for you to change the name of this small area?
Looking forward to discussion!

Comments

  • Batel.9206Batel.9206 Member ✭✭✭

    That location with that name has been in-game for over seven years, including development. It's a name that refers to a place in Russia, with the in-game location having no other connection to real-life history. ArenaNet is not going to change the name of one single area seven-plus years after its implementation. Sorry.

    fear not this night
    you will not go astray

  • Polly.5397Polly.5397 Member ✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    I joined only a few months ago so I didn't know that, thanks for the info. I'm just trying to point out that this place in Russia has a troubled history and that I think it's a bit harsh to name a place in video game after Smolensk. Even if they won't rename it, I think it's good they know about this.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    It is likely a coincidence given dredge are mole people and Anet just added nsk to it in keeping with their naming fashion of that time. It is unlikely to be named after the specific place

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Polly.5397 said:
    this place in Russia has a troubled history

    Just about everywhere in the world has a troubled history, if you think about it.

    I know, which is why in 99% of the places names, I don't care, I state it there. It's just this place and it's story, which honestly isn't even history yet, it's present.

  • DonArkanio.6419DonArkanio.6419 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Yeah, this name is kind of unfitting there. It's just odd considering what happened there just a few years ago. And the politics don't try to keep the situation transparent. It's all very shady and hateful from the side od current Polish government.

    As you said. The name could work, but the events and the whole situation is very present.

    Personally, I don't mind the in-game name but I think it could be changed.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    As was said, pretty sure it's just a mole pun. Just try not to take it too seriously, really though there's very few areas that haven't had atrocities happen there historically. Just gotta remember it's only a game.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 16, 2019

    someplace in Europe related to a massacre, whats the news? Anyway Smolensk is the first place atacked by germans when they invaded Russia in 1941, its fits very much the Dredge thematic.

    i just remembered a article explaining that vilnius is called a "city build on the bones". because digging theres is easy finding bones of soldiers of the 4 invasions attempts on Russia: The teutonics knights, the Charles XII of Sweden(the great northern war), the Napoleon and the Germans in ww2.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    Just because its based on a place with tragic history it doesn't mean the name should be changed. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. This actually made me go and research the subject and now I know more than I did before.

    As a matter of fact if gaming companies made more nudges to actual historic places and tragedies I would respect gaming companies even more. Informing me about real world, and allowing me to learn new things is great. Hiding from reality isn't (in my humble opinion)

    And as some people have noticed before, taking any inspiration from European history or geography is always going to come with "baggage", but I still think game developers should do it as it makes games a more believable experience. Making me feel sombre about actual real world, while playing the game is in my opinion a testament to the quality of the game.

    Knowing all of this going forward, I will definitely view some things a bit differently and will actually try to find some similar things in the game

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Just because its based on a place with tragic history it doesn't mean the name should be changed. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. This actually made me go and research the subject and now I know more than I did before.

    As a matter of fact if gaming companies made more nudges to actual historic places and tragedies I would respect gaming companies even more. Informing me about real world, and allowing me to learn new things is great. Hiding from reality isn't (in my humble opinion)

    And as some people have noticed before, taking any inspiration from European history or geography is always going to come with "baggage", but I still think game developers should do it as it makes games a more believable experience. Making me feel sombre about actual real world, while playing the game is in my opinion a testament to the quality of the game.

    Knowing all of this going forward, I will definitely view some things a bit differently and will actually try to find some similar things in the game

    like most border URSS cities at 1941 time, is easy bet the smolensk is also probably place of epic battles. so is subjective if someone remember it by tragedies or by the glory.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Smolensk_(1943)

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • Polly.5397Polly.5397 Member ✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Just because its based on a place with tragic history it doesn't mean the name should be changed. As a matter of fact, it's quite the opposite. This actually made me go and research the subject and now I know more than I did before.

    As a matter of fact if gaming companies made more nudges to actual historic places and tragedies I would respect gaming companies even more. Informing me about real world, and allowing me to learn new things is great. Hiding from reality isn't (in my humble opinion)

    And as some people have noticed before, taking any inspiration from European history or geography is always going to come with "baggage", but I still think game developers should do it as it makes games a more believable experience. Making me feel sombre about actual real world, while playing the game is in my opinion a testament to the quality of the game.

    Knowing all of this going forward, I will definitely view some things a bit differently and will actually try to find some similar things in the game

    This is super interesting, I haven¨t thought of it that way at all! I'm glad I could see your point of view. It's true it will always be hard to choose 'appropriate' name and as someone sick of cultural appropriation culture, that was not my intention at all. I simply thought this place and its history is maybe too recent and sensivite. Reading all these insight is super interesting though and makes me see things in new light.

  • Polly.5397Polly.5397 Member ✭✭

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    someplace in Europe related to a massacre, whats the news? Anyway Smolensk is the first place atacked by germans when they invaded Russia in 1941, its fits very much the Dredge thematic.

    i just remembered a article explaining that vilnius is called a "city build on the bones". because digging theres is easy finding bones of soldiers of the 4 invasions attempts on Russia: The teutonics knights, the Charles XII of Sweden(the great northern war), the Napoleon and the Germans in ww2.

    While this is true, Smolenks can be barely called history as the local events are still very well alive and sensitive.

  • Dawdler.8521Dawdler.8521 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 9, 2019

    @Polly.5397 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    someplace in Europe related to a massacre, whats the news? Anyway Smolensk is the first place atacked by germans when they invaded Russia in 1941, its fits very much the Dredge thematic.

    i just remembered a article explaining that vilnius is called a "city build on the bones". because digging theres is easy finding bones of soldiers of the 4 invasions attempts on Russia: The teutonics knights, the Charles XII of Sweden(the great northern war), the Napoleon and the Germans in ww2.

    While this is true, Smolenks can be barely called history as the local events are still very well alive and sensitive.

    We are supposed to learn from history, learn from our mistakes and heal our wounds. This happened almost 80 years ago. It's history. No one can can go back and fix it.

    If you keep the anger smoldering... well that begin the path to making it happen again. That's how we got WW2. And WW1. And most other wars. In fact the current state of the EU is a testament to how we have kept it stable for this long instead of murdering each other.

    This modern trend of being outraged over anything is exhausting to see. Lots of people died, horrible things happened. But if someone look at the Dredge and it's comedic take of socialist Soviet and decides to taking a pause on twitter or facebook and learn the actual history of WW2 and the hardships of the civilian population... I consider that a win.

    Dont look a gift Asura in the mouth.
    No seriously, dont. Shark teeth.

  • Megametzler.5729Megametzler.5729 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited October 12, 2019

    First: I really enjoyed you shared this piece of history with us. I did not know about its background and I think these things should never be forgotten. So, thank you for this!

    However, I do not think they should rename it. It is not the exact name, it is not related to some massacre or a dark parody of it. And if it makes people read about the history, I would even consider this a win.

    €: Oops, basically what @Dawdler.8521 said. Though I would advocate for more background spreading. Not being outraged, but I like you posted this sad story.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    Everything connected to the dredge is a parody of the USSR. Most of it is to make fun of the whole dredge are all equal, but some are more equal.
    The easiest way to not let something rule over you is to make fun of it and show how pathetic it really is.

  • so what next? Renaming Ascalon? Caledon? Brisbane? I am pretty sure if you want to, you can find for almost all places some place on earth with a similar name where something bad has happened (or being something slimy. Like Elona. Those are snails).

  • Loesh.4697Loesh.4697 Member ✭✭✭

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Everything connected to the dredge is a parody of the USSR. Most of it is to make fun of the whole dredge are all equal, but some are more equal.
    The easiest way to not let something rule over you is to make fun of it and show how pathetic it really is.

    I'm unsure of how much I buy into that reasoning. Shaman Ninukab if anything seems to be dunking on the unfair governments of every other nation on Tyria, unrestrained free market capitalism included.

  • Vancho.8750Vancho.8750 Member ✭✭✭

    @Loesh.4697 said:

    @Vancho.8750 said:
    Everything connected to the dredge is a parody of the USSR. Most of it is to make fun of the whole dredge are all equal, but some are more equal.
    The easiest way to not let something rule over you is to make fun of it and show how pathetic it really is.

    I'm unsure of how much I buy into that reasoning. Shaman Ninukab if anything seems to be dunking on the unfair governments of every other nation on Tyria, unrestrained free market capitalism included.

    That is the whole point, at one hand he is not wrong but on the other he considers his way better than the rest, which has been proven that his way is easily twisted, basically your grandpa talking how everyone is wrong and back in his day everything was better, all the while explaining his kitten to the dude that is trying to untangle the mess of the world. Also like the real world there is no right way for everyone, since the only way group is in the wrong when they try to enforce their will upon others. So for example works for the small dredge would not work for the large norn. If we look at the current episode even the system that the char work in is not that clear cut, the iron legion is moving forward and more involved with the world with trade and less to do with war, ash no one knows what they are up to but we know Evon is/was ash so they are not left in the dust and then we have blood that are stuck in their ways. The wheel of time is turning people move on with the time, but at the same time keep what makes them special. Also Shaman Ninukab is a preachy kitten, while his village is getting branded and i don't think pissing off people trying to help is great idea.
    In the game aspects of real life are stitched together magnified and sometimes ridiculed. The only problem with the game that i find is that after solving the current problem everything is tied in with "and they lived happily ever after" .

©2010–2018 ArenaNet, LLC. All rights reserved. Guild Wars, Guild Wars 2, Heart of Thorns, Guild Wars 2: Path of Fire, ArenaNet, NCSOFT, the Interlocking NC Logo, and all associated logos and designs are trademarks or registered trademarks of NCSOFT Corporation. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners.