Initial Thoughts on the story — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Initial Thoughts on the story

White Kitsunee.4620White Kitsunee.4620 Member ✭✭
edited September 18, 2019 in Lore

The quality of this patch is hitting the roof, IMO they've outdone themselves in terms of the story telling in the game.
This has easily been the most immersive and fun open world story missions that have been made in recent memory, however.

I know you need bad guys for us to fight in MMOs, It's important. But please
https://puu.sh/EilHC/66317958c2.jpg
Blood is such an easy target that it seems like a boring direction to go in. I Trust the dev team to write something interesting, so I don't think its the direction they're going in, but I thought it needed to be said: Blood is too easy, come up with something better.

Edit: Thought I should go over in more details some of the stuff I liked so much.
1.This felt like a much more honest way to redeem Braham. Braham have a phobia of spiders felt super forced, but this feels really really natural for him.
2.Aurene's appearance is quite possible perfect
3.The outdoor story content was really well paced, It felt like it progressed so naturally despite the fact that I made a bunch of detours to explore.
4.The map is super fun. I always thought that people who said, "Mobs with big aggro range hurts the feeling of exploration." Were kinda dumb. Honestly though there being almost no mobs makes exploring super fun.
5. Metal Legion turned out like 3 times better then I expected.
6. Multiple dialogue choices, and Race specific Dialogue, THANK YOU!!!!

Overall fantastic work IMO

<1

Comments

  • I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.
    Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2019

    im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

    Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

  • ugrakarma.9416ugrakarma.9416 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

    Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

    make him some sort of gw2 Admiral Proudmoore will be too cheap too.

    main pvp: Khel the Undead(power reaper).

  • RyuDragnier.9476RyuDragnier.9476 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2019

    @ErikTheTyrant.4527 said:

    @ugrakarma.9416 said:
    im dont completed the chapter, but i hope the blood dont become something like a white mantle or even the Awakened, anything involving blood legion should be really epic. Bangar Ruinbringer is the chance for narrative team to redeem themselves for the Long Live the Lich and A Crack in the Ice fiascos.

    Blood most likely won't go down an dark path. Its most likely just Bangar. My guess is that Cercia will replace Bangar as blood imperator, and Rytlock will later do something in the story that will make him Khan-Ur.

    Or Crecia ends up in charge of Flame Legion due to her heritage and the trust Blood has in her, and Rytlock ends up becoming the new Blood Legion Imperator. Would be a way to "write him off" if they feel he needs to take a back seat from the main cast for a while. Not to mention Smodur feels more like Khan-Ur material, due to his ability to play the political field to his advantage.

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I agree that Smodur seems like the most likely candidate for Khan-Ur right now, my prediction is that there will be a civil war with a twist.. Bangar faces Jormag, but allies with him and declares himself Khan-Ur while slowly turning into an Icebrood, along with the people who came along with him.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I feel like they’re setting up Rytlock to make “the ultimate sacrifice” concerning his son. The writers put a lot of work establishing the distance between them and Rytlock’s seeming guilt surrounding it.

    Pretty sure Bangar’s fate is sealed long term. We’ll end up killing him or he’ll become Icebrood. Unless they pull a Loghain circa DA:O, but that’s doubtful...

    Crecia seems positioned to be promoted to imperator at the very least. I could see her becoming Khan-Ur by the end of Icebrood potentially, but Smodur seems likely too.

    Definitely curious about Flame. It sounded to me they’re refugees that have fled from the rest of their legion, so it didn’t seem odd that these members seemed “nice” to me. Did seem to be a few veiled hints dropped about something specific that made them run away to Blood tho, but I don’t think there’s any definitive statements made.

    Overall really enjoyed the episode. The final sequence hiking through the pass was great and spooky. Could totally feel that horror vibe creeping in. Excited to see how the devs employ that in the coming saga. It’s really all about the environment and ambiance. Walking into the unknown. Making the familiar unfamiliar and unsettling.

    I feel like Jormag is talking to Bangar in that trailer now. I can see Jormag tricking him into serving without even realizing he’s signed his soul away.

    Love the POV work with the camera too. And Aurene’s brand is pretty. REALLY hope we get to see some core maps purified with her branding somehow.

  • Sovereign.1093Sovereign.1093 Member ✭✭✭✭

    i did some pve. that should speak volumes <3

    Not Even Coverage is the Only broken thing in WVW.

  • Tukaram.8256Tukaram.8256 Member ✭✭✭

    The opening festivities reminded me of the opening of the movie The Warriors ha ha
    But beautiful scenery in the new zone.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Randulf.7614 said:
    I should pretty much copy and paste my response at this point given the number of threads popping up..

    I agree, I thought this worked as a prologue and built well using direct and ambient dialogue. It's been a while since the game's narrative has been interesting enough to pull me along on its own strength, but this did it. After the utter rubbish that was the latter half of LS4, my faith is cautiously improved in this narrative team. Or at least those who did this episode - since we already know there is an absolutely enormous (and worrying) gulf in quality of the teams delivering episodes.

    For me it seems Bangar is being seduced by Jormags influence. Whether he is or whether he isn't - he is well set up to make an intriguing villain, even though it is likely he will be corrupted at some point>!

    Dialogue driven episodes are hard to pull off because they can easily lose a lot of players, but this fitted really well and there were lots of really nice touches like the increase in snow (or at least I didn't notice the weather change until I was meant to even if it was already there) and the realisation that this was all cleverly being pulled together by the dialogue from various ambient npcs should one care to pick up on it.

    Even without the twist at the end, it was clever to build into a possible new world order, with s snapshot of what Tyrians could be fearing in Aurene and making the Charr seem more nuanced than they have been since their watered down versions at launch.

    Yes, a good prologue for me. Didn't expect that

    this so much!

    I want to just add a note about the music, that made it so immersive, and in the end of the episode it turned very creepy - first signs of lovecraftian atmosphere.

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Just listen to that....

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Eekasqueak.7850Eekasqueak.7850 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tamias.7059 said:

    @Eekasqueak.7850 said:
    I agree that Smodur seems like the most likely candidate for Khan-Ur right now, my prediction is that there will be a civil war with a twist.. Bangar faces Jormag, but allies with him and declares himself Khan-Ur while slowly turning into an Icebrood, along with the people who came along with him.

    I agree. I do think that Malice Swordshadow is something of a dark horse in this race, though - we know from Malice that Bangar and Smodur are vying for Khan-Ur, but if the Ash Legion imperator also wanted it she'd probably be smarter than to make her intentions known.

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:

    @Weindrasi.3805 said:
    I am excited and I think the story was great. My hope is that we get a LOT more lore surrounding the events in the story. Specifically, the Flame Legion. There was just enough NPC dialogue in the Flame Legion camp to get me hooked--and if I don't get the details and specifics on how Flame Legion got to this point, I'm going to be deeply disappointed.
    Obviously, future releases will give us a lot of Norn lore details, and character development for Bangar, Rytlock, and Crecia---but please please please don't forget the Flame Legion details!

    I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit too nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

    The one that I don't trust is Crecia. She's covert ops and is completely loyal to her imperator and her legion - Malice says that it's likely that Bangar left some spies behind, and Crecia seems like a prime candidate for that.

    Being Khan Ur seems like it'd be too high profile for her to want the title, on top of her saying she doesn't like politics.

  • Episode 1: we'll likely meet Jhavi Jorasdottir at the Vigil camp.

    After that lovely prologue, you gotta keep the trend of military figures teasing each other.

  • Arden.7480Arden.7480 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

    She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

    The wound is the place where the Light enters you ~Stephane Lo Presti

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

    She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

    She went to check in with the Vigil outpost and inform them Kralk was dead. It seems rather circuitous for Bangar to want her at the rock festival and then for her to go through the trouble of getting out out of that to slip off early only to meet up with him elsewhere.

    So, no I don't think Almorra joined up with him. There seems little reason for her to change her stance on the Dragons for it, even though it's likely Jormag is manipulating events from afar anyway

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Svennis.3852 said:
    Pretty sure Bangar’s fate is sealed long term. We’ll end up killing him or he’ll become Icebrood. Unless they pull a Loghain circa DA:O, but that’s doubtful...

    While they describe it as Lovecraftian, it's really more Tolkienesque -- a promise of power that corrupts the soul and eventually even the body. Call him Bangarmir. Presumably the season will end by carrying Jormag to a volcano and tossing him in.

    Definitely curious about Flame. It sounded to me they’re refugees that have fled from the rest of their legion, so it didn’t seem odd that these members seemed “nice” to me. Did seem to be a few veiled hints dropped about something specific that made them run away to Blood tho, but I don’t think there’s any definitive statements made.

    Maybe everyone just killed enough of them that the only ones that survived are those with less bloodlust and will to power. Evolution in action.

    Anyway, what's interesting to me is the implicit callback to the origins of the Flame Legion and the bad GW1 charr -- that is, the same way the Charr fell under the thrall of the Titans because they felt they needed gods to even the odds against humans, he is seeking power from the Frost Dragon. "You idjit! We'd look like a bunch of Johnny-come-latelies, bragging on our own dragon, don't matter how crystalline."

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

    The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

    He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

  • perilisk.1874perilisk.1874 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Arden.7480 said:
    Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

    She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

    Are you kittening serious? Bangar's a Charr supremacist. Almorra thinks of the non-Charr in the Vigil as her people as much as the Charr, which is why she was in his office in the first place. Pretty sure most of the Pact Charr are going to be on her side as well -- they have, let's say, a much broader sense of "in-group" than Bangar's folks.

  • Fenella.2634Fenella.2634 Member ✭✭✭

    Also, Almorra would understand our connection to Aurene better than Bangar does. She knows we did not "capture" her (or whatever he's planning to do with Jormag) and she certainly follows her own will. Trying to get a grown ED to just somehow be on your side and follow your commands is ridiculous.
    She would have enough experience with dragons by now, Elder or young. Plus, she cannot stand Bangar apparently. So there's no reason for her to leave the Vigil and join the rebellion.

  • Randulf.7614Randulf.7614 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Im pretty impressed they got Graham McTavish as Bangors VA

    What sleep is here? What dreams there are in the unctuous coiling of the snakes mortal shuffling. weapon in my hand. My hand the arcing deathblow at the end of all things. The horror. The horror. I embrace it. . .

  • @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit too nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

    I don't find it strange that the Flame refugees are nice. All we ever encountered were the hate filled zealots and the soldiers who followed their orders. It's probably like comparing the Taliban to the average citizen in Afghanistan--the average citizen just wants to have a peaceful, productive life. Now that all or most of the Flame zealots have died in their civil war, we are seeing the average-citizen Flame Legion and the soldiers who are no longer under zealot rule.
    I do think there should be some differences of opinion voiced. For instance, I'm sure the Flame Legion shamans feel like the other three legions are sort-changing themselves by rejecting spirituality and magic--that the Flame Legion isn't the only group who has "sins of the past" to make up for.

    Also, there's going to be some Flame Legion women who want nothing to do with the military, and will probably refuse to become soldiers. I'm sure for some of them--watching the soldiers come home maimed or not at all--being a soldier is terrifying. They'd be looked down on from the females in the other Legions, and would have to stand up for their decisions.

    Then there's the whole "all your children belong to Blood Legion now." More than anything else, that is going to cause a LOT of resentment.

  • I am less impressed. There are many things I liked such as the Flame Legion group event. I was confused by it at first, didn't understand the mechanic of dropping the torch so others could run through the flames, but when I did understand it, I was struck by how well it demonstrated a way to think of the Flame Legion's group ideals. If an individual can't make it to the finish, spend the last flame you have to give the person behind you a better chance. I hope that was intentional. When I realized the mechanic I had to stop and say wow.

    I don't understand how easy it was for a doom's day weapon, Braham's bow, to go missing after we just had the Dragon's Blood Spear be such an important plot element as a doom's day weapon. Again, Tyrians learn nothing unless it furthers the plot.

    What is Bangar's plan with Braham's bow? Threaten Jormag with destruction when that spells destruction for Tyria? Will he threaten to cause him pain when that will trivialize Jormag as a threat? Offer Jormag the bow leaving Bangar without any way of controlling Jormag? Create a paradox that only Aurene can swoop in and solve?

    all primes work and not tearing down has value
    ready purrlayer @ any parsed feels enhance the value of something that is already worth everything
    what other chordal approach but penultimate singing along with other quantum cuddle clocks

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 18, 2019

    As far as I know Braham’s bow is the one that cracked Jormag’s tooth in Hoelbrek, which basically fulfilled a prophecy of some kind. In my mind, Bangar must be thinking he can use Braham’s bow against Jormag.

  • Hesacon.8735Hesacon.8735 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @Tamias.7059 said:

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

    The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

    He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

    I don’t think he’s acting rationally - Elder Dragons can’t be tamed or controlled. Don’t you think it’s funny that his objective (to be in a position where he has enough power to rival the Pact and/or Aurene) dovetails nicely with Jormag’s presumed priorities - namely to put the brakes on the dragon-killers that Aurene and the Pact represent? Given that Jormag is the most subtle Elder Dragon, I doubt that that’s a coincidence.

    He's not trying to tame or control Jormag. He saw the Kralk's power can go to Aurene and intends to do what Charr do best and fight a war against Jormag.

    I'm not saying he's smart, he's going to get slapped hard and do a Scarlet style thing where he triggers an Elder Dragon. But he legitimately thinks he can win, and winning wins puts the Charr ahead of the other races.

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    I don’t think he intends to slay Jormag. It’s pretty obvious he’s looking to leash them somehow, since he seems to believe we control Aurene. I mean, I think he outright states “we need to keep up, let’s go get our own dragon!”

  • Kalavier.1097Kalavier.1097 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2019

    @Psientist.6437 said:
    I don't understand how easy it was for a doom's day weapon, Braham's bow, to go missing after we just had the Dragon's Blood Spear be such an important plot element as a doom's day weapon. Again, Tyrians learn nothing unless it furthers the plot.

    What is Bangar's plan with Braham's bow? Threaten Jormag with destruction when that spells destruction for Tyria? Will he threaten to cause him pain when that will trivialize Jormag as a threat? Offer Jormag the bow leaving Bangar without any way of controlling Jormag? Create a paradox that only Aurene can swoop in and solve?

    Braham's bow isn't really a doomsday weapon, but instead an enchanted longbow. It's like how the spears aren't really "super-weapons" besides when facing branded. Otherwise it's just a really nice spear. Pact equipment has shifted to being dragonsblood weapons, but that doesn't mean they are any better unless the foe is branded. And we've gotten implications in this episode that Aurene is actively sweeping up and down the brand, cleansing it.

    I think Bangar is intended to use the bow to awaken Jormag (notice how Ryland was kinda drilling Braham for information specific to Jormag, and his own actions), and somehow control Jormag with the aspect of having one of few weapons known to deal serious damage to the elder dragon.

    @Tamias.7059 said:

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

    The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

    He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

    I don’t think he’s acting rationally - Elder Dragons can’t be tamed or controlled. Don’t you think it’s funny that his objective (to be in a position where he has enough power to rival the Pact and/or Aurene) dovetails nicely with Jormag’s presumed priorities - namely to put the brakes on the dragon-killers that Aurene and the Pact represent? Given that Jormag is the most subtle Elder Dragon, I doubt that that’s a coincidence.

    I think the aspect that Bangar isn't quite understanding is the connection between Aurene and the commander(and somewhat now, Caithe). He comes across as if it's a "master-pet" type relationship, almost like a ranger and their animal companions maybe. So he's seeking out his own pet, his own super-weapon. But he doesn't understand is that the commander has been mentally linked to Aurene since... before she hatched even, and has influenced her personality and manner.

    @Weindrasi.3805 said:

    @Konig Des Todes.2086 said:
    I agree. I'd like to know more about Efnar. Honestly, he seems a bit too nice, in all honesty. But listening to the various ambient dialogue, so do the rest of the Flame Legion there. The only one that felt like traditional Flame Legion was one comment during the fist story instance, so I hope to see more of a strife in the Flame Legion as we see them become more modernized to the standards of the other three Legions. Not an outright "they're opposing so we must kill them" but just voicing difference of opinions kind of setup.

    I don't find it strange that the Flame refugees are nice. All we ever encountered were the hate filled zealots and the soldiers who followed their orders. It's probably like comparing the Taliban to the average citizen in Afghanistan--the average citizen just wants to have a peaceful, productive life. Now that all or most of the Flame zealots have died in their civil war, we are seeing the average-citizen Flame Legion and the soldiers who are no longer under zealot rule.
    I do think there should be some differences of opinion voiced. For instance, I'm sure the Flame Legion shamans feel like the other three legions are sort-changing themselves by rejecting spirituality and magic--that the Flame Legion isn't the only group who has "sins of the past" to make up for.

    Also, there's going to be some Flame Legion women who want nothing to do with the military, and will probably refuse to become soldiers. I'm sure for some of them--watching the soldiers come home maimed or not at all--being a soldier is terrifying. They'd be looked down on from the females in the other Legions, and would have to stand up for their decisions.

    Then there's the whole "all your children belong to Blood Legion now." More than anything else, that is going to cause a LOT of resentment.

    I was reading it in a similar way. The zealots and military groups that wanted total control have been weakened and/or wiped out by the other legions and forces. We are seeing the reserves and civilians now. You can find a flame legion female whose totally uneasy about the fact of being in the military, and other bits. I'd say these are the flame legion groups who are flame legion, but perhaps a bit more rational. Tired of constant warfare so they are willing to try something to be at peace with the other legions. The groups who females ran agriculture and civilian aspects, but simply weren't military.

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    I really enjoyed the storyline.

    Ruinbringer is very well made in my opinion. Not a generic evil villain but a more believable one. He seems like a political hard-liner, but not necessarily a next spawn of devil. His dialogues are very well written and executed.

    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

  • @kasoki.5180 said:
    I really enjoyed the storyline.

    Ruinbringer is very well made in my opinion. Not a generic evil villain but a more believable one. He seems like a political hard-liner, but not necessarily a next spawn of devil. His dialogues are very well written and executed.

    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

    It's been 7 years. Gaheron was killed in Citadel of Flame, back in core Tyria. Since then, they've had no real leader and been at constant war with the rest of the charr, suffering heavy losses. The non-zealots are tired, and want a chance for peace.

    Can't answer the GW1 part, never played that.

  • @kasoki.5180 said:
    I really enjoyed the storyline.

    Ruinbringer is very well made in my opinion. Not a generic evil villain but a more believable one. He seems like a political hard-liner, but not necessarily a next spawn of devil. His dialogues are very well written and executed.

    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

    In Guild Wars 1 there was the Ebon Vanguard scouting the region and a few quests to kill flame legion there with Anton and a few others.

  • Bangar is an interesting character, to say the least. Going off what I've seen so far from the story I'm thinking he's going to ally himself with Jormag. Bangar was against the treaty with the humans. Smodur pushed for the treaty not Bangar. Now that we've bested 3 elder dragons and a god Bangar is starting to see his chance to drive a wedge in the treaty. Keep in mind the pact is only a conglomerate of the 3 orders of Tyria, and they've taken heavy losses over the past several years against the dragons. Losses that lead to us having to recruit literal pirates and outcast Charr to supplement the ranks to fight Kralk. The pact is weak and Bangar sees his chance to push the Charr who were against the treaty into a frenzy.

    It's talked about many times in the prologue how many of the Charr don't know what to do with themselves now. Their old enemy the humans are at peace with them now, and Kralk has been defeated. Charr are born and bred to fight from the day they are born. Now they have no one to turn those weapons and skills on. It's just like a modern day soldier who is trained to kill in a war and comes home with no war to fight and no idea what to do anymore. If someone gives them a new war to fight they'll jump on it gladly because they don't know anything else.

    Bangar is using that to his advantage, he wants the Charr kitten into a frenzy to fight. But he also knows as long as Aurene goes unchecked he'll lose. Bangar has, to my knowledge at least, never lost a battle. He's very tactical, he doesn't want to risk open conflict without some way to answer the Aurene problem. Because lets face it, Aurene will protect the Commander, if someone or something threatens the Commander then Aurene will respond. So he knows he can't force a fight openly without help. Jormag is that help. I'm thinking he's going to attempt to subdue Jormag and try to get the dragon under his control at least to some extent, which is why they needed the bow. Its the only weapon known right now that could harm Jormag.

    To put it into another perspective, think of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Where the East Indies Trading company basically enslaves Davey Jones to do their bidding. That's the type of thing that I think Bangar is trying to pull off, put Jormag in a position where he has no choice to but to help further Bangars desires. Although I don't think Jormag is going to just roll over, I have a feeling Jormag is going to "temper" Bangar and his followers like the Icebrood we see in the Far Shiverpeaks and its going to give him basically an army that he can move south.

  • @kasoki.5180 said:
    I really enjoyed the storyline.

    Ruinbringer is very well made in my opinion. Not a generic evil villain but a more believable one. He seems like a political hard-liner, but not necessarily a next spawn of devil. His dialogues are very well written and executed.

    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

    Flame Legion has been out of the picture for a very long time. In story/dungeons/hearts we have weakened or wiped out entire groups of their more fanatical and oppressive groups. Then you have the groups that joined the Molten alliance also get wiped out. While they retreated and weren't more of a threat for a while, as others have said it's probably a case of "We are dealing with the reserves, the civilians. The ones who weren't totally crazy." Another factor is remember, this is the shaman who accepted and pushed for the truce with the other legions, and is viewed as one of the big remaining leaders of the Flame legion. Of course we'd see more people of his faction then otherwise.

    As for other, Doomlore Shrine was above an underground ruins of an cathedral. "Cathedral of Flame" was the dungeon name. It was filled with ghosts and ascalon style construction. Ascalon humans did extend quite far north with their holdings, it's just those fell pretty quickly to the charr.

    And Blood Keep? Well one thing to consider is that just until recently, Kralkatorrik's former napping spot was probably filled with brand-storm and branded, causing trouble all the way to the keep walls if we consider the brand stompers as an indication. It could be that it feels more like an outpost because blood was more involved in constant warfare then construction.

  • PseudoNewb.5468PseudoNewb.5468 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2019

    This a spoiler thread? I think so... so here goes...

    They story taught me that Ryland's main charisma/personality trait is dignity, then the dignity option is what keeps your cover and prevents combat in the next sequences. That is how you combine storytelling with in game dialog mechanics. Thanks for that, please do more interesting things like that.
    .... It is a very direct, but subtle way to teach the player about a character... Although the personality traits aren't used for the player character anymore, it is a nifty use of the personality options.

    As for Bangar. To me, his demeanor makes him seem like he is going to be quite passive in most of whatever is coming (being passive, or just tactical with how he wields influence). He speaks, but not for himself. Between Bangar and Ryland, I am leaning towards Ryland holding more power, but Bangar, allowing his authority to be used. Ryland seems to be the dignified and loved prince of the charr (leading his people through the Shiverpeaks to salva... no I didn't play GW1 but...). For me, it is hard to say who is leading who, and if Bangar is playing some sort of other angle on the situation. He seems to have sized up Rytlock, and confirmed that Rytlock isn't out for blood or power. (and if Rytlock did harm Bangar, it would have added more fuel to the fire anyways). So Bangar may be up to something more than reflecting the will of the charr. Sentimentality.... is just an excuse.

    And if I where to take the hazzard to guess. Jormag in, the Icebrood Saga trailer, is making an appeal to honor/dignity in it's speech, and is in fact targeting Ryland and charr who feel threatened by Aurene. The game keeps on re-enforcing that Ryland is well loved... so I expect him to matter more.

  • @Arden.7480 said:
    Guys, do you think Almorra Soulkeeper also joined the rebellion?

    She left Grothmar to go check the status of Jormag if I remember correctly - did she use it as an excuse to really join Bangar?

    No. Bangar is full on renegade material now, and Almorra was arguing with him over her human soldiers beings assaulted. Her reasoning is pretty legit, and in all honesty she didn't need to make such up if she was just attending Bangar's rally - she could have proclaimed that she was there for the festivities like everyone else.

    It's just too much to make Almorra into an unexpected villain out of left field.

    @perilisk.1874 said:
    While they describe it as Lovecraftian, it's really more Tolkienesque -- a promise of power that corrupts the soul and eventually even the body. Call him Bangarmir. Presumably the season will end by carrying Jormag to a volcano and tossing him in.

    Bangarumon.

    @Hesacon.8735 said:
    I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

    The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

    He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

    Except for the whole "the world will die if another Elder Dragon is killed" bit, if his goal is to kill Jormag. Unless he found and subdued some scion somewhere.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    Not exactly overnight. We hadn't encountered any Flame Legion for 6 years.

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

    https://wiki.guildwars.com/wiki/Cathedral_of_Flames

    During the war with Ascalon, the charr ransacked and pillaged and brought spoils of war up north. The souls of the dead were tied to the treasures, and one of them was a powerful necromancer in life (similar to Bria in Iron Marches); Murakai bound the souls to her servitude with the intention of revenge on charr (and, supposedly, all other life).

    As for the ruins, three possibilities:

    1. Charr brought ruins up that far north, as part of their spoils of war, as back in GW1 they had no true architecture of their own, at least in those lands, and needed something to house the spoils of war.
    2. Some seem to think it's evidence that humans of Ascalon reached that far north. Though I disagree.
    3. They're not Ascalonian, but generic ruins. Wouldn't be the first time ArenaNet used the "Ascalonian" ruin assets in a place that was 100% not Ascalon (e.g., Fort Koga in Brisban Wildlands).

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • Jokubas.4265Jokubas.4265 Member ✭✭✭
    edited September 19, 2019

    I was pretty impressed so far.

    As someone who is not exactly a charr fan, that surprised me. Though at the same time, it's sort of exactly why I was impressed. GW2 has historically managed to pass the buck for the charr's warlike ways, usually by heaping it on the Flame Legion even while supposedly friendly charr make comments about wanting to kill the other races because it just appeals to them.

    In this chapter, however, the charr who was most like that (and not Flame Legion) turned out to be the villain. The rest of the charr are actually showing growth, while still having a distinct and varied culture. That's the sort of thing I used to really love about GW1.

    I found myself surprisingly ready to accept the Flame Legion too. I think maybe because, despite it perhaps feeling a bit extreme, there's a logic to it. They've been ostracized for so long that hate for them is going to be institutionalized among the rest of the charr, even when they aren't doing horrible things. And since this chapter is also admitting through Bangar and the other defectors that the other Legions definitely have their own dark side, finding that the Flame Legion has a good side makes a lot of sense.

    As for Ryland, I'm pretty suspicious of him. I didn't give it much thought until the characters gave a speech about definitely bringing him back. While that could certainly be a way of reassuring us that he'll be saved, it set off a lot of red flags for me that he's the actual mastermind, not Bangar. I can totally imagine a situation in which we defeat Bangar fairly early on and get Ryland alone, and we're all like "now you can come home!" and Ryland goes "why should I, Bangar was acting on my plan all along!"

    The only thing that really disappointed me in this prologue was the treatment of Braham. The story certainly has time to make up for it, but it made me really uncomfortable that it not only pretty much exclusively used "norn getting drunk" as his characterization, but it being an easily exploitable vice is a major plot catalyst. I liked the interactions between Braham and Ryland at first, I felt that Braham could really use a friend like him. I wish it could have stayed that way for multiple reasons.

    A question I am left with is whether or not Bangar's forces knew that Jormag was clearly helping them. Those storms and elementals were awfully convenient and the charr didn't all suddenly freeze to death like we would have. Is Bangar already working with Jormag and his story just an excuse to lure others to his side? Is Jormag getting involved because he knows he'll be able to convert them? Or is there something else going on, like Ryland already working with Jormag without Bangar knowing?

  • kasoki.5180kasoki.5180 Member ✭✭✭

    @Kalavier.1097 said:

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    I really enjoyed the storyline.

    Ruinbringer is very well made in my opinion. Not a generic evil villain but a more believable one. He seems like a political hard-liner, but not necessarily a next spawn of devil. His dialogues are very well written and executed.

    My only problem is the info we got on Flame Legion. It seems like they went from super bigoted to super enlightened almost overnight. I would like a bit of background on this new Flame Legion and their deal with other legion (especially cub tribute system).

    But I have a few question for those who are more lore savy, especially when it comes to GW1. First, why are there Ascalonian ghosts and Ascalonian ruins this far north? Second, is Blood Keep supposed to be Blood capital city? Because the whole map feels like an outpost, not a glorious capital.

    Flame Legion has been out of the picture for a very long time. In story/dungeons/hearts we have weakened or wiped out entire groups of their more fanatical and oppressive groups. Then you have the groups that joined the Molten alliance also get wiped out. While they retreated and weren't more of a threat for a while, as others have said it's probably a case of "We are dealing with the reserves, the civilians. The ones who weren't totally crazy." Another factor is remember, this is the shaman who accepted and pushed for the truce with the other legions, and is viewed as one of the big remaining leaders of the Flame legion. Of course we'd see more people of his faction then otherwise.

    Even though I agree that passage of time plays a factor, a bit more of a nuanced explanation ingame would go a long way. Especially how hardcore Flame Legion was in the recent past.
    Alot of what you wrote is a logical assumption. Buy I still think we need a proper explanation.

    @Kalavier.1097 said:
    And Blood Keep? Well one thing to consider is that just until recently, Kralkatorrik's former napping spot was probably filled with brand-storm and branded, causing trouble all the way to the keep walls if we consider the brand stompers as an indication. It could be that it feels more like an outpost because blood was more involved in constant warfare then construction.

    Wouldn't that be a reason to relocate capital rather than keep it underdeveloped?
    I mean, Iron Legion was at war with humans and ghosts and they still menaged to build an impressive capital city.

  • There's a possibility that the whole thing is a plan by Bangar to get rid of the renegades from the inside.
    The plan would be: Round up most of the charrs extremists around a charismatic figure and then send them into an impossible fight (against Jormag). The more damage they could manage to do against the elder dragon, the better.
    The motivation: Bangar would have seen a new era coming, where the legions would lose their place in the society. Instead of risking a bitter transition period of years and years of charrs against charrs war, he would have opted for offering his soldiers an honorable end. And to give the more moderate elements of the society a free shot at the necessary reforms.

    That would probably be an optimist outlook on the character. However we know that he is a very capable leader, that Crecia do trust him to be an honorable charr, and that he seems to have given Ryland an honorable upbringing. So that wouldn't be that far fetched.

  • Genesis.8572Genesis.8572 Member ✭✭✭

    @kasoki.5180 said:
    Wouldn't that be a reason to relocate capital rather than keep it underdeveloped?
    I mean, Iron Legion was at war with humans and ghosts and they still menaged to build an impressive capital city.

    Sure, but Iron Legion are the engineers, inventors, and builders of the charr legions. That's kinda their specialty. Blood Legion's specialty is dying on the battlefields. :tongue:

  • Svennis.3852Svennis.3852 Member ✭✭✭

    A question I am left with is whether or not Bangar's forces knew that Jormag was clearly helping them. Those storms and elementals were awfully convenient and the charr didn't all suddenly freeze to death like we would have. Is Bangar already working with Jormag and his story just an excuse to lure others to his side? Is Jormag getting involved because he knows he'll be able to convert them? Or is there something else going on, like Ryland already working with Jormag without Bangar knowing?

    The implication to me was that Jormag is orchestrating all this from afar, or one of his more powerful minions is. I’d imagine it’s similar to what Mordy did with Scarlet. Manipulating some mortal even in their “slumber,” or it could be they’ve awakened without anyone noticing. Honestly I wouldn’t be surprised if Jormag had been “faking” slumber somehow.

  • Tamias.7059Tamias.7059 Member ✭✭✭

    As someone on reddit has pointed out, Bangar keeps a corrupted (by Jormag) norn artefact in his office. Now where have we seen this before?

  • @Tamias.7059 said:
    As someone on reddit has pointed out, Bangar keeps a corrupted (by Jormag) norn artefact in his office. Now where have we seen this before?

    I'm wondering where he got that artifact. A gift from Ryland during an earlier mission? Or was it something that he conveniently found a while back?

  • I have a feeling that Bangor is going to be releasing Drakkor and becoming the new "Savanir" Champion of Drakkor. He will then lead Drakkor and the new Frost legion across Tyria to Hoelbrek to destroy it since the Norn(Sons of Savinir) have failed Jormag .
    Either Rytlock will die before Ryland or Ryland will be killed before Rytlock. But I do think that it will be Rytlock who dies, giving Sohothin to Ryland. Making Ryland and Braham more like brothers...

  • @Rubedo.8769 said:
    Bangar is an interesting character, to say the least. Going off what I've seen so far from the story I'm thinking he's going to ally himself with Jormag. Bangar was against the treaty with the humans. Smodur pushed for the treaty not Bangar. Now that we've bested 3 elder dragons and a god Bangar is starting to see his chance to drive a wedge in the treaty. Keep in mind the pact is only a conglomerate of the 3 orders of Tyria, and they've taken heavy losses over the past several years against the dragons. Losses that lead to us having to recruit literal pirates and outcast Charr to supplement the ranks to fight Kralk. The pact is weak and Bangar sees his chance to push the Charr who were against the treaty into a frenzy.

    It's talked about many times in the prologue how many of the Charr don't know what to do with themselves now. Their old enemy the humans are at peace with them now, and Kralk has been defeated. Charr are born and bred to fight from the day they are born. Now they have no one to turn those weapons and skills on. It's just like a modern day soldier who is trained to kill in a war and comes home with no war to fight and no idea what to do anymore. If someone gives them a new war to fight they'll jump on it gladly because they don't know anything else.

    Bangar is using that to his advantage, he wants the Charr kitten into a frenzy to fight. But he also knows as long as Aurene goes unchecked he'll lose. Bangar has, to my knowledge at least, never lost a battle. He's very tactical, he doesn't want to risk open conflict without some way to answer the Aurene problem. Because lets face it, Aurene will protect the Commander, if someone or something threatens the Commander then Aurene will respond. So he knows he can't force a fight openly without help. Jormag is that help. I'm thinking he's going to attempt to subdue Jormag and try to get the dragon under his control at least to some extent, which is why they needed the bow. Its the only weapon known right now that could harm Jormag.

    To put it into another perspective, think of the Pirates of the Caribbean movies. Where the East Indies Trading company basically enslaves Davey Jones to do their bidding. That's the type of thing that I think Bangar is trying to pull off, put Jormag in a position where he has no choice to but to help further Bangars desires. Although I don't think Jormag is going to just roll over, I have a feeling Jormag is going to "temper" Bangar and his followers like the Icebrood we see in the Far Shiverpeaks and its going to give him basically an army that he can move south.

    Yeah it be like the destroyers how the shamans tried that and look what happen to them in guild wars 1 the destroyers attacked the flame Legion and Jomag willBanage think he can control only to turn the tables on Banger who would to little to late he doomed the charr legions to a slave master mind who cares not for the legions way of life and will use them till their are no more charr left.

  • @Hesacon.8735 said:
    I don't get the sense Jormag is manipulating Banger. I read it more as he wants to be equally powerful to The Pact.

    The Pact has an allied Elder Dragon, so Bangor needs an allied Elder Dragon in an arms race. If he can slay Jormag and claim the magic for the Charr, nobody is stronger than the Charr.

    He's acting totally rationally, for what his goals are.

    Like how the charr thought they need gods to beat the humans of Ascalon or the ones became the kingdom of Ascalon we saw how that ended they became slaves to a fallen human god who cared not for them but to use them till they were useless to him.

  • @Tamias.7059 said:
    As someone on reddit has pointed out, Bangar keeps a corrupted (by Jormag) norn artefact in his office. Now where have we seen this before?

    A more relevant artifact, even uses Corrupted weapon skin.

    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.
    All these squares make a circle.

  • He has a Jormag touched focus and a Scepter as well.

  • If we are to believe Bangar's speech, his intention is to subdue Jormag and use them as a weapon in his campaign for Charr ascendancy. Braham's bow is how he intends to subdue Jormag meaning the bow can threaten the life of Jormag, making the bow a doomsday weapon. That isn't bad writing it just makes certain demands. Without staging a difficult heist where Bangar must take a well protected bow, we are left with the Commander, Dragon's Watch and every other Tyrian who doesn't want the world destroyed playing idiot ball. The challenge is how to suddenly treat Braham's bow as it should be without giving away the reveal that Bangar wants it, under a strict word count budget.

    Jormag could very well be influencing Bangar, playing on his desire to see Charr ascend to dominance and his confidence in himself and the Charr. He may realize the danger of killing an Elder Dragon but Jormag is whispering that he will instead easily subdue them. Jormag may also be offering Bangar an alliance in return for the bow. Imo, the destruction of the bow is the goal because it is a danger to Jormag.

    I hope Bangar doesn't become a version of Balthazar, willing to destroy Tyria if they can't get their way. There are many directions to take him besides that one.

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