The Importance of Guilds in Guild Wars 2

In last week’s AMA, we learned that they no longer have a guild content team at Arenanet – and, even more importantly, that they have no plans to implement/improve/etc guild related content in the foreseeable future.

This is probably the most shortsighted decision ArenaNet has ever made. Guilds are the backbone of this game. Without them, I believe there would be no meaningful world vs world, there would be very little open world coordination/leadership efforts for things like meta events, early world boss successes, boss trains and much more.

Supporting guilds – and encouraging them to be active in the open world - is more important than it has ever been, in my opinion. Players are already expressing concern about the new maps becoming dead zones. The most logical way to stop that from happening is to incentivize guilds to organize and lead activities on those new maps (and older maps that may become dead as well).

As an obvious example (that has been discussed before), a simple overhaul to the guild mission system where PVE missions mirror how they work in PVP and WvW missions would go a long way. This could include things like:

• Do four bounties in Domain of Vabbi in less than 30 minutes. At least three guild members need to participate.
• Achieve level 4 in Dry Top with at least 3 members present
• Capture or defend a settlement in Lake Doric with three members present
• Accrue 20,000 cumulative experience points in Frostgorge
• Complete the Skimmer race in the desolation with at least three members present

And about 100 more examples come to mind. At that point, adding new guild missions becomes a natural part of new map and content development. It no longer even requires creating unique content in order to remain interesting.

And, of course, this isn’t just about guild missions. Anything they can do to encourage guilds to become more active across the large group game modes is obviously very good for the game.

Even for those that do not rely on their guild when enjoying the game, this is an important issue. Encouraging guild activity in maps creates that light to medium level of coordination needed to keep the zones alive for everyone there.

Finally, it’s worth noting that this issue exposes a key problem with how they have aligned teams and are moving forward with the game. Yes, focus is good, but not when it becomes so narrow that the mandates given become the only things your creative employees see. I believe the above would be a pretty simplistic fix for the issue – but even if it’s not, there could be something else that could be done. With no guild focused team – and no oversight or more general development focus from a high level – no one is paying enough attention to care or try and come up with one. In any creative endeavor (such as an MMO), that is very bad – and leads to neglected content.

Like many, my guild is the one thing that keeps me logging in day in and day out. I found it depressing to hear from the president of Anet that they have stopped supporting activities focused toward those groups – and I hope that they realize the error of that decision.

First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

They have a standing team for raids, fractals, living world, world vs. world, structured pvp, and expansions. They have to drop the ball somewhere and those 6 content types see most of the GW2 play time.

@Hesacon.8735 said:I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

I mean... if i had my pick i'd delete the WvW team. That's not saying they aren't doing work just that it's one of those things that will never be in a good spot because the combat and game really aren't built to support it. That's why they have so many band-aid fixes applied to it just to get it to the semi-functional state its in currently.

I agree.

Before i even started playing Guild Wars 2, the Guild in the game title just made me expect that the game would have awesome guild contents. Of course it did, but it never get better from there on.

Would really love to see more new guild contents. It's probably the only thing that makes a guild fun aside from normal conversations.

Tying guild content to areas locked behind pay walls, such as expansions and Living World is a terrible idea. Consider that not everybody has access to all content, especially Living World maps. Then consider how you'd split a guild because some people do not have access to content they did not pay for. The reason current guild missions are tied to Central Tyria, WvW, and PvP is because these content are all accessible by even free-to-play players.

I've been playing Gw2 for years, and have never felt a need to engage in guilds at all. I am just saying that there are lots of different folks with different habits. Arenanet obviously sees their internal metrics and develops to them. Just as a general thought, guild participation is down in a lot of MMOs in general. Habits are changing. I personally would not be impacted if guilds didn't exist. A friends list does the trick just fine.

@Brimstone.3807 said:I've been playing Gw2 for years, and have never felt a need to engage in guilds at all. I am just saying that there are lots of different folks with different habits. Arenanet obviously sees their internal metrics and develops to them. Just as a general thought, guild participation is down in a lot of MMOs in general. Habits are changing. I personally would not be impacted if guilds didn't exist. A friends list does the trick just fine.

I think you would find the open world a much different - and definitely less active place - without guilds, even as someone who doesn't belong to, or want to belong to, one. While most meta events, trains, etc don't require a lot of coordination, most of what you do see on the maps now comes from guilds posting on LFG. They provide the spark of coordination that turns into the large, loosely coordinate activities for everyone (even those not in guilds).

People are already starting to worry about the new maps dying off really quickly. The single best way that Anet can make sure they remain active is by incentivizing guilds to be more active in those areas. And, yes, that would benefit everyone in the community.

And to someone's earlier post about not having guild content in new areas, I couldn't disagree more. Just like everything else, developing new content in the new zones doesn't mean the content in the old zone has to go away. The game expands and grows primarily through the new areas. Excluding guilds from that growth makes zero sense. Again - keeping the old map guild missions doesn't mean they can't (or shouldn't) do things for guilds in the new maps. Of course they should.

I'd like to point out that the very name of this game alludes to an aspect of MMOs that I have found lacking in most other current releases: not merely an opportunity, but rather an incentive for social interaction and for forming communities. This is no small part of what drew my interest when I began looking for an MMO that isn't yet another thinly veiled single-player game with people in it, and there must be many others who feel similarly. It's quite disheartening to hear that guilds are deemed irrelevant enough to, perhaps, end up as one more piece of abandoned content.

I really like the suggestion of using Guild Missions to revitalize under attended group content that requires organization. Already some unrewarding PoF metas are being poorly attended, it'd be nice if we had something additional driving interest in these events.

Just chiming in briefly to say that I've participated in a lot of events run by other guilds (Triple Trouble for example) and agree that they really do keep certain types of content open and playable. Events like TT require a lot of coordination and people who know the event well enough to run it. Dry Top meta generally runs much smoother with a guild that has two commanders on the map. I'm sure full meta completion on HoT maps isn't much different. In my experience, guilds also provide a solid backbone for WvW and information on pretty much everything for new players. I'd hate to see them left by the wayside. I wonder if they could add guild reward tracks as well? That might be less feasible, but it could add some extra incentive without having to make a bunch of new content as well.

@MMAI.5892 said:Just chiming in briefly to say that I've participated in a lot of events run by other guilds (Triple Trouble for example) and agree that they really do keep certain types of content open and playable. Events like TT require a lot of coordination and people who know the event well enough to run it. Dry Top meta generally runs much smoother with a guild that has two commanders on the map. I'm sure full meta completion on HoT maps isn't much different. In my experience, guilds also provide a solid backbone for WvW and information on pretty much everything for new players. I'd hate to see them left by the wayside. I wonder if they could add guild reward tracks as well? That might be less feasible, but it could add some extra incentive without having to make a bunch of new content as well.

Exactly. I think a few people (and apparently ArenaNet, sadly) underestimate the importance of guilds to this game, especially in open world.

Even if they don't decide to form a guild team again (which they obviously should), hopefully the open world or LS teams will see this (or come up with another idea similar) and find some way to start incentivizing guilds again.

It would have a significant positive impact on both the current and future game.

Nothing new. I already speculated they removed the guild dev team and others too confirming it via logical assumption throughout the different news that the guild dev team is already no more.

The guild hall's assumed jumping puzzle will no longer be completed. The new guild hall does not have guild hall weapons either. No more new guild contents, guilds are not wanted here, let's move on.

I am really just waiting for good value for $$ game to move on.

@Blaeys.3102 said:Exactly. I think a few people (and apparently ArenaNet, sadly) underestimate the importance of guilds to this game, especially in open world.

Even if they don't decide to form a guild team again (which they obviously should), hopefully the open world or LS teams will see this (or come up with another idea similar) and find some way to start incentivizing guilds again.

It would have a significant positive impact on both the current and future game.

Agreed, I've been invited to so many fun events with various guilds just by virtue of being on the same map at the same time. "Saving Southsun" runs that were either doing the meta, just farming karka or both are a couple of my favorites to run into! ..... and helped me get over my fear of Veteran Karka.

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

I totally disagree with deleting the WvW team. If anything needs to be deleted it should be the raid team. There is already a fractal team. Fractal and raids are the same category: instanced pve content.

@xDudisx.5914 said:I totally disagree with deleting the WvW team. If anything needs to be deleted it should be the raid team. There is already a fractal team. Fractal and raids are the same category: instanced pve content.

They already got merged and downsized probably. Content delivery pace is so slow that they might as well not exist.

@xDudisx.5914 said:

@TexZero.7910 said:

@Hesacon.8735 said:I think things like the PoF races or bounties are low hanging fruit for guild missions content.

@TexZero.7910 said:First the dungeons team, now the Guild Ops team ?

Interesting choices to cannibalize those departments. I too think it's mistake and hopefully there's enough backing in this sentiment. Guild Missions and other various content pieces like it could use some love.

I mean you're free to think that, but in terms of which team is putting out quality content and the other is hobbling along worse than a zombie it's night and day. Both of the instanced PvE teams are actually putting out quality. Meanwhile in WvW land it's ports of working systems from other modes just to get people to play it....

I don't know. Does the guild team working elsewhere really change anything? I hardly see it as the condemnation or the death of guilds. One could argue that adding new content in the forms of open world maps, dungeons, raids, fractals, etc. IS creating more content for guilds. It just so happens to also create content for non-guild players as well. I strongly believe that guilds should 'create their own fun' so to speak, whether in the form of motivating your members to play together, organizing map metas, or just starting an HP or bounty run.

It might be nice to have some incentive to do worldly things with guild members, but we already can. And more. Do we need guild commendations (or another reward) for dragging two friends along on a PoF race? Or for 10 guild members participating in a HoT adventure each week? If guild dailies required 2 or 3 additional guild members present it may (and would for me) be more troublesome than not to request attendance while you gather or do an event or kill things. I wouldn't want to ask guildmates to tag along for activities I could easily do solo just for the sake of a guild mission. That feels unfair to them and to me. We should play together because we want to, not because we have to.

I'd certainly like to see more guild missions and some administrative changes (more permissions and split permissions particularly) but I can't shake the feeling that most content which enhances guild group play will be better off not restricted solely to guilds.

The issue with guild missions is that with each expansion they release, it will segment players who do not purchase them. Having PoF guild missions would mean that those without it would not be able to complete them. It's also impractical to give a different set for those that only have core or those that have core and HoT.

I also disagree with the notion that guilds are the backbone of the game. They're not. All content can easily be done without a guild. The reason maps feel empty, other than because of the "flawed" megaserver system, is because there are no rewards or anything if interest to compel players to play on those maps. Just look at the meta event rewards. How likely are you to do them after you got the achievement and/or collection item?

I find the largest part of guild missions to be horribly boring minigames stuff at worst and some ok wvw missions at best. I see no need to add to the suffering that already exists at this front. I also have not the slightest interest in any guild decoration stuff.

Still I think that guilds should be useful for more than giving +5 mats in wvw. I don´t have the slightest clue how that could be done, maybe with making guild halls accessible for anyone to see what the guild has already done? I don´t know to be honest.

While I do think they should have a team dedicated to guild activities, the point I was trying to make with my original post is that, even if they don't have a dedicated team, there are less resource intensive ways to incentivize guilds into becoming more active across the game - something I truly believe would benefit everyone (even those not in guilds) by providing a semi organized base for dynamic events, trains, etc., while also encouraging people to work together more.

To the point of "segmenting the population," I don't really see much merit to that argument. As long as they are able to provide a breadth of guild activities that span across all three modules (base game, HOT, POF), then it will be the guilds that can choose where to focus without leaving anyone out. It isn't impractical - in fact, it is the logical thing to do and fits exactly with how they are developing the rest of the open world content.

My plea would be to both Anet leadership and the open world/living story teams - please think about how guilds can support the content you are releasing and implement incentives and systems that encourage them to do so. It can be something as simple as what I've listed above - and wouldn't require building content unique to guilds.

So ANet announced in public that they do no longer have resources to support a guild content team.

Let us go a little back in time, how about the end of Heart of Thorns, when the Linving Story 3 was about to start. One of ANets high ranked officials proudly announced, that due to the re-organization of important tasks for the future, the decision to scrap the team for the legendary weapon develeopement, was made. As far as I remember, he was excited and very positive, that it was the perfect decision, as the legendary weapons were a huge and time-consuming aspect of the game. The big expectation from the community was, that with Heart of Thorns, we would receive a full 2nd set of Legendary Weapons. Until that day, we only received HOPE, Nevermore and maybe Astralia (I am not a specialist for Legendary Weapons)?

The community went crazy when the news were spread. The forum was full of threads and complains and suggestions. And I remember the great ... storm when Chupa Champawat was announced to be the last of the official planned 2nd set. The rants were hillarious. People claimed the shortbow to be the most useless weapon in the entire game, noone would serioursly use it. Aside from the claims, that it would be a stupid idea to release a legendary weapon of something that not appears in any meta-build. It is still in my memory, sadly.

Then something unusual happened. Against all odds, ANet released more Legendary Weapons of the 2nd generation. With nearly every LS3 episode, we received another unique Legendary Weapon. Some new things, like the shortbow, which did not appear in the first generation at all. But also weapons which already existed, with awesome skins. Bold move for a scraped idea, if you ask me. So when ANet officialy removed the development TEAM from the Legendary Weapon project it was not the end.

On the other hand, we have the new guildhall in the Crystal Desert along with new decorations. Big companies like ANet do not make big decisions during a coffee-break. If the elimination of the guild content team was a long term decision, what I guess it was, investing any resources into a new guildhall or decorations, within the last months, sounds like a total waste of money.

I am not a huge fan of the showcases/AMA/trailers/GuildChat and whatever the other official PR events are called. We do not get all the information. ANet does not lie to us, they just do not tell us the whole story. They tell us that part of the story, they think creates the best public reactions. From my point of view, what they say and what they do, especially with the look on the above paragraphs, are two different things for me. As long as I can open my guildpanel and there is no "This content has been disabled for an idefinite period of time," there is nothing to worry about. Besides, the guildmissions have not been touched since Heart of Thorns. What should I be afraid of? Another two years without a change? Guilds have their place in this game. They are used for social aspects, for coordination and organization, for RP and a lot more. Due to their long-time absence, ANet became some sort of spectator of the guild-topic. MMORPG's live from their communities. The 2nd M is for multiplayer.

At last, I have to admit that OP's suggestions sound very nice. I would like to have them and refresh the spirit of our guildmissions. But I do not need specific guildmission to have fun with my guildmembers. We already created own events with the new content. Last weekend we ran a central-tyrian race over 5-6 maps with mounts. We have also been doing crystal-desert bounties with the guild or participated meta-events. The guildmissions are one of many options, not the only option.

@Ayrilana.1396 said:The issue with guild missions is that with each expansion they release, it will segment players who do not purchase them. Having PoF guild missions would mean that those without it would not be able to complete them. It's also impractical to give a different set for those that only have core or those that have core and HoT.

I also disagree with the notion that guilds are the backbone of the game. They're not. All content can easily be done without a guild. The reason maps feel empty, other than because of the "flawed" megaserver system, is because there are no rewards or anything if interest to compel players to play on those maps. Just look at the meta event rewards. How likely are you to do them after you got the achievement and/or collection item?

so what, the same can be said of any content in an expansion

We already have the ability to select the focus of our guild missions. You could easily allow the guilds themselves to determine if they want expansion content in the six normal opportunity spots the way they already determine if they want pvp, wvw, pve, or mixed. Leave the three bonus upgrade slots as is, always attached to core content.

You could literally just make the guild missions "do legendary bounty X" or "race Y" or "Raid wing Z" or whatever without actually creating more content, and just give guilds a means to leverage existing content for commendations in stead of old dusty guild missions we already have.

Since they're obviously aiming for one hall per expansion (reasonable) just aim for one back, shoulders, or helm. We know anet loves those slots because they're less work than body slots, and its more useful to all characters than a single weapon, and less work than a weapon set. Or even choose just one building per expansion to get a meaningful upgrade so maybe its not the market and gear. Maybe its the war room, or the portal, or the workshop or whatever.

And, I mean, how hard is it to add the new xpack's music to the guild hall list?

That's a really small, reasonable amount of guild content I think. i never expected big huge new guild systems, but I expected some kinda ongoing content, some use for the mine we spent all that time on you know?

As posted on reddit:

I understand fully why people want to have content made for guilds. However, it just doesn't translate well into the current game.

I am sure ArenaNet has metrics already that show that x number of people don't do guild missions, or are part of a guild. I am fairly certain that's why they've chosen not to continue developing new 'guild content'. Additionally, it's not new features people want, its new content. That guild content must come at the cost of new open world content/raids/whatever. Guild content doesn't drive their bottom line. The living world releases and open world content does.

On a personal note as well, I don't care for new guild stuff. I do raids, dungeons, fractals, WvW raids, GvGs, rankedQ, open world - you name it, with my guild. I don't feel the game needs content specifically catered for guilds, when everything in the game can already be done together.