Will there be ZERO Necromancer builds in the upcoming meta if these changes go live? — Guild Wars 2 Forums

Will there be ZERO Necromancer builds in the upcoming meta if these changes go live?

It seems as if the popular opinion for a lot of high ranked sPvPers are that if the proposed changes listed in the "Future Potential WvW-centric Balance Changes - September 13th 2019" thread in the professions forum goes live, there won't be any Necromancer representation in the cutting edge meta.

What are your thoughts?

Comments

  • Knighthonor.4061Knighthonor.4061 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Let It play out. Not a big deal. Any build can be helpful in WvW.

  • I don't understand the sentiment, I have looked over the proposed changes to scourge time and time again, but only see it as an overall buff. It'll change the play-style, yes, but the new version is even more exploitable in WvW than the current one.

  • I'm not sure if I was clear, I am referring to sPVP.

  • @Jasher.6580 said:
    I'm not sure if I was clear, I am referring to sPVP.

    Ah, i misunderstood, since there's quite a few PvPers who just assume that PvE and WvW skills are the same as they are in PvP.

    From what i understood, the changes are WvW exclusive, so I assumed you were talking about people who mainly play PvP making judgements about the WvW meta.

  • FOX.3582FOX.3582 Member ✭✭✭

    @Jasher.6580 said:
    I'm not sure if I was clear, I am referring to sPVP.

    How about you post this in the PvP section then?

  • I don't think you'll get to enjoy a match without Necros that easily

    As the old worlds fall behind
    Our spirit reaches wide
    With no fear breathing new life
    Awaken from the dark dark slumber

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  • Astralporing.1957Astralporing.1957 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 22, 2019

    What thread are you refering to? I don't see any recent dev posts about incoming balance.
    Nvm, found it, ignore this post.

    The whole point of a social game is to play with the people you want to play with, not be forced to play with the people you don't.

  • If it affects sPvP too, it'll be bad news bears for Scourge. Bad news bears indeed...

  • Scourge will become unplayable in PvP. It's best you write in the WvW-centered balance thread in the professions section and read the posts there. There are many people writing and explaining exactly why Scourge in PvP will become destroyed. No more boonstripping in this meta anymore...yay! /s

    ~ Miyu Chan / Fyora ♥

  • Goettel.4389Goettel.4389 Member ✭✭✭✭

    Zero? My guess is: no.

  • DanAlcedo.3281DanAlcedo.3281 Member ✭✭✭✭

    People play Ranger in zergs despite there being Zero builds.

    Necro will be fine.

  • derd.6413derd.6413 Member ✭✭✭✭

    ppl cry dead class for the most minor of nerfs, i'm sure necro will see slightly less play (which is fine, scourge has been very dominant in a lot of game modes) but i doubt he'll be gone.
    besides this isn't even a full list of changes

    I Have No friends, so I Must pug

  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2019

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Anet made it clear that scourge was supposed to be PURELY support. But here they are as a upgrade core necromancer WITH pretty good support skills. Something has to give.

    I don't know where people got this from to keep pushing that. Scourge wasn't meant to be one thing and one thing only, and just like Firebrand got lines for support and dps or even Deadeye got a boon support line, Scourge was meant to be both either a condition spec or support or hybrid of the two.

    Necromancer has no support weapon, at all, and giving Scourge a pure condi Weapon as offhand should be a pretty good indication that it wasn't intended as pure support.
    After all Desert Shroud doesn't pusle Heals and Boons (which is what I suggested Sand Savant should so since like a week after release of PoF and Scourge, because the Trait immediately looked problematic), or looking at Demonic Lore, it's clear Scourge was supposed to carry the condi Torch off of Reaper, which got pushed towards power only right around that time.

    The general problem with Scourge is mostly it's Trait and Shade design and how it scales with targets, but also as usual the lacklustre core, which doesn't allow Necro any type of support aside from a rez gimmick and now Barrier spam with Scourge, which really already doesn't compete with other supports providing things like Aegis, Prot, offensive buffs and so on by a long shot.
    So it needs to provide some significant personal damage to compete, which looking for example at BS's personal DPS while providing banners, is a joke.
    Even as full condi DPS Scourge lags far and wide behind every other profession, literally being outclasses by support hybrids by thousands of DPS.

    The only issue for WvW and to a much lesser extend sPvP is how well Scourge scales with multiple targets, as well as the insane boon spam that is present in those modes, which endlessly fuels it's corrupts.
    Which btw, will be a nightmare to fight without Scourge, which was less a catalyst for the current meta than it is a necessary response to keep it in check, and I wish everybody good luck with all the boom spamming bunkers never dieing after Scourge is axed.

    Also being a flat upgrade to core Necro in every regard isn't exactly hard considering it's the worst spec in the game, and literally any spec on any profession could be considered a flat upgrade to it.

    @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    P.S. I want this same treatment for ALL of the PoF classes (except for Renegade since it has been the weakest this far).

    I mean in terms of PvE, Renegade is far, far ahead of Scourge in terms of condi DPS, as well as being able to take care of boon removal in fights, such as pQadim etc., making it flat out far superior to Scourge aside from Epi carrying Scourge for maybe MO and SH.
    On power it's also a meta DPS/Support hybrid in all forms in endgame content, and with that drastically more represented than Scourge ever was, aside from the short lived epi bouncing meme some did before it got nerfed into oblivion.

    Additionally, Necromancer doesn't have any fall back build. It's not like Ele where you nerf one weapon and or/traitline, and they can just pick another and still be top DPS, just slightly less so.
    Necromancer is already struggling heavily to stay relevant in any form in PvE endgame since years, considering their only strength, AoE Boon corrupt, doesn't matter there and even if needed, specs like Renegade do it better while providing much more personal DPS or more relevant support such as Alacrity.
    Scourge already was one of the weakest condi DPS specs in the game, often as far down as almost just 50% of what a Mirage does in DPS for example. The gap is massive already.
    In terms of power DPS, what Reaper provides is also less than impressive, and ironically, the build probably most affected by this, the already weak Support Scourge (which only use already is just to carry really bad players going down constantly) will most likely disappear.

    Now I said it before, I'm actually in favour of the Shade design change, it's just as a stand alone change without a further reaching rework of Scourge or even half of core Necro to compensate, it doesn't work.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • @Lilyanna.9361 said:
    Anet made it clear that scourge was supposed to be PURELY support. But here they are as a upgrade core necromancer WITH pretty good support skills. Something has to give.

    Anet never said Scourge was pure support, because GW2 doesn't have elites designated as pure anything. They said that Scourge has support capabilities, which is something necro lacked at the time. All elites can, theoretically, play any role. Take Firebrand; one of the best off healer, amazing boon application, great power damage, awesome condi damage and if specced right, can do a bit of everything. Yet I have not yet come across people moaning about support firebrands burning you down in 3 seconds. But maybe I am not looking.

  • Flumek.9043Flumek.9043 Member ✭✭✭

    @Serenity.6304 said:
    Scourge will become unplayable in PvP. It's best you write in the WvW-centered balance thread in the professions section and read the posts there. There are many people writing and explaining exactly why Scourge in PvP will become destroyed. No more boonstripping in this meta anymore...yay! /s

    For the 2x PVP guys in the back , this above is the summary.
    My personal tip is ignore the ELO as gw has 0 competition, and play core necro. Its a sleeper B tier class and its not as braindead to play.

    PVE will stay same ez PVE, and WWW as far as I understand its still the best AOE.

  • Jayce.5632Jayce.5632 Member ✭✭
    edited September 23, 2019

    Yes, if this change goes live in it's proposed form, then casting a Shade in sPVP will virtually be a death sentence, which is why this change should only occur when selecting the Sand Savant trait.

    15 seconds is an eternity to go without being able to defend yourself because you will not be able to kite damage, which is arguably one of the Necro's main form of mitigation.

    And the first person who says just stand in your Shade, that 180 radius Shade, can just take a short walk off a very steep cliff.

  • The problem with Scourge is that it can corrupt mass amounts of Boons in quick succession and is the only profession able to do so.

    As GW2 has progressed, classes have been given more and more boons. More ways to self apply and more ways to share. To "balance" this, ANet has also given Necromancer more and more ways to corrupt. Then, Scourge was introduced which can corrupt multiple players in quick succession in large areas. I'm sure it's obvious enough to everyone who plays this game that Scourge is supposed to be the answer to the boon-creep. Unfortunately, this also means all eyes are on Scourge because it's the only class able to control player buffs. Thus it has been the target for repeated nerfs because it's easier to balance a single class than it is to reduce the boon access of every other class.

    ANet has stacked Necromancer with the only way to counter boon spam because it fits thematically. This is good in the sense that Necromancer has a niche, but bad because it continues to get stronger as everything gains more ways to apply boons.

    I've hated Scourge since it's inception because I consider it to be an abomination of class design. But realistically, it's ANet that I hate for creating it and not Scourge itself. I don't think it ever should have become a thing because it was inevitable that it would be the target for constant nerfs.

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  • @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    The problem with Scourge is that it can corrupt mass amounts of Boons in quick succession and is the only profession able to do so.

    reaper actually corrupts more boons in bursts
    jus sayin

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  • Asum.4960Asum.4960 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 23, 2019

    @Flumek.9043 said:

    @Serenity.6304 said:
    Scourge will become unplayable in PvP. It's best you write in the WvW-centered balance thread in the professions section and read the posts there. There are many people writing and explaining exactly why Scourge in PvP will become destroyed. No more boonstripping in this meta anymore...yay! /s

    For the 2x PVP guys in the back , this above is the summary.
    My personal tip is ignore the ELO as gw has 0 competition, and play core necro. Its a sleeper B tier class and its not as braindead to play.

    PVE will stay same ez PVE, and WWW as far as I understand its still the best AOE.

    Aside from one, maybe two Raid bosses Necro is already pretty dead in endgame PvE, has been for a long time. After this it will just be even worse, but probably still be taken just for Epi.
    But frankly, they could just give Epi to Mallyx and delete Necro from the game, and no one in Fractals and Raids would even notice it's gone.

    And since Core Necro is probably the worst spec in the game, especially/at least when it comes to PvE, it's also not like there is any alternative to fall back on should Scourge be hit hard by this change.

    @Stand The Wall.6987 said:

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    The problem with Scourge is that it can corrupt mass amounts of Boons in quick succession and is the only profession able to do so.

    reaper actually corrupts more boons in bursts
    jus sayin

    Yea, I'm not quite sure where people think all these spammable mass corrupts on Scourge are.. it's actually a fairly limited supply which at least in PvP you have to utilize quite carefully to strip key boons connected to key skills.

    R.I.P. Build Templates, 15.10.2019

  • Nimon.7840Nimon.7840 Member ✭✭✭✭

    @SpellOfIniquity.1780 said:
    The problem with Scourge is that it can corrupt mass amounts of Boons in quick succession and is the only profession able to do so.

    This isn't exactly true. For pvp modes maybe yes. But in pve you take chronos or renegades for boon removal.
    Well, guess they only remove boons.

    As GW2 has progressed, classes have been given more and more boons. More ways to self apply and more ways to share. To "balance" this, ANet has also given Necromancer more and more ways to corrupt. Then, Scourge was introduced which can corrupt multiple players in quick succession in large areas. I'm sure it's obvious enough to everyone who plays this game that Scourge is supposed to be the answer to the boon-creep. Unfortunately, this also means all eyes are on Scourge because it's the only class able to control player buffs. Thus it has been the target for repeated nerfs because it's easier to balance a single class than it is to reduce the boon access of every other class.

    ANet has stacked Necromancer with the only way to counter boon spam because it fits thematically. This is good in the sense that Necromancer has a niche, but bad because it continues to get stronger as everything gains more ways to apply boons.

    I've hated Scourge since it's inception because I consider it to be an abomination of class design. But realistically, it's ANet that I hate for creating it and not Scourge itself. I don't think it ever should have become a thing because it was inevitable that it would be the target for constant nerfs.

  • Anchoku.8142Anchoku.8142 Member ✭✭✭✭
    edited September 24, 2019

    In PvE, corruption has little value so it comes down to dps versus group utility. I do wish Arenanet would continue splitting game modes and balancing professions for each.

  • If the sand shade mechanic changes in WvW only, then it will be fine. However, if the area of effect around the Necromancer stops when a shade is cast in PvP, Scourge will become a free kill and impossible to run in solo que without a dedicated friend to support you.

    All the reduction in barrier nerfs are fine in both WvW and PvP, as now it encourages scourges to take healing power for additional barrier.

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